Apple 'Independently Evaluating' Foxconn's Response to Suicides at Manufacturing Plant

[paul4339]

Yeah, but they're suiciding at work, so it's safe to assume it's work related.

It's _at_ work because the workers live on campus in dormitories.
I agree with the previous poster, it's like a small city and probably has the problems of a small city. If you read the Bloomberg article, at least two of the jumped from their apartment blocks.

The article also mentions both Apple and HP are investigating - so it's not _just_ Apple. ( ...employs about 800,000 workers in China making electronics for customers including Apple, HP and Sony Corp.)

Nine deaths in 400,000 is still below the avg of 16.9 deaths in 100,000 in China.

(I did a quick Google, it's 16.9 suicides per 100k for males in China. The U.S. is even higher at 17.6 !)

 

[tlng13]

Nine deaths in 400,000 is still below the avg of 16.9 deaths in 100,000 in China.

(I did a quick Google, it's 16.9 suicides per 100k for males in China. The U.S. is even higher at 17.6 !)

certainly all this companies should take a look at what's going on
and for the 16.9 suicides... it's probably the number given by the China gov... u know, the Big Brother they may have made it lower than US

 

[Black Macbook]

Foxconn is pretty damn big.

Everyday 6000 pigs get killed at Foxconn!

The article says that 9 people died. Actually, it's 10, because somebody just committed suicide yesterday also.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0526/1224271142593.html


This Foxconn facility is impossibly huge. Chefs slaughter 6,000 pigs a day to feed the workforce of between 300,000 and 400,000 in this giant industrial complex, spread over 3 sq km, with young employees toiling to make household-name electronic products.

 

[TogetherinParis]

First, lower atmospheric levels of ozone. Ozone breaks up pheromones via ozonolysis and irritates chemoreceptive brush border cells in the human upper respiratory system.
Second, encourage an 'atmosphere of love and appreciation' or if you can't do that, provide everybody who might be suicidal with regular 10 mg doses of healthy adult male facial skin surface lipid p.o. If that is inconvenient, try 150-250 mg p.o. in a single dose. Suicidal ideation, criminal inklings, drug-seeking, and even perversion melt away at that dose.

For discussion of suicide and pheromonal effects on it, see: http://tinyurl.com/y8vxlxp

 

[tlng13]

now it's 11

and Foxconn is now making his 40,000 employees to sign a memorandum to assure that even if they are going kill themselves in the future, that's not becoz of the company.....

 

[Exponent]

Pretty meaningless when the suicide rate for Foxconn's massive employee base is only a fraction of that in the general population. The whole area is no different in terms of size and population to a small city and effectively functions as one.

You have to compare Apples to Apples.

In a populace, who's most at risk for suicide? Common sense says that's the "despondent". Who typically falls into this group? The unemployed, the broke, the sick with no good prospects for getting better, the elderly, the young and confused and/or heartbroken, the mentally ill, the drug addicts, etc. etc.

Now, compare to the modern (in a good sense) factory worker populace. Unemployed? Nope. Broke? Well, they shouldn't be! Sick with no good prospects for improvement? Not typical if you're healthy enough to work an assembly job. Mentally ill? You probably wouldn't have passed the job interview. Drug addicts? You can't be that and show up for work at a high operational level.

In other words, the modern factory worker, in a sane situation, should not be despondent - or at least not nearly at the same rates as seen in the populace as a whole.

Apple really should move these jobs back to a country where people are FREE and have RIGHTS. It's not like they're going broke - indeed, Apple is making money hand-over-fist! Many of the companies they are working with right now have operations over in Taiwan - a free country - so it might not even mean much disruption of contract ties.

It's high time the free people of the world look out for each other, because, if you haven't noticed, the tyrannies of the world have been soaking up most of the money and jobs the last 18 years or so.

 

[johan_tanying]

Somebody hacked Foxconn's web site...

... and it looked liked this: (from Shanghaiist.com)

 

[XciteMe]

These workers are being MURDERED and silenced for their insubordination. Simple. It's not directly Apple's fault, but they DO have some blood on their hands metaphorically speaking, because they are business partners with them.

If Apple was dignified they would sever all ties with Foxconn.

p.S. Foxconn sounds sinister, just the name alone I mean... Sounds like an evil conglomerate in a Metal Gear Solid game.

 

[christian_k]

Apple really should move these jobs back to a country where people are FREE and have RIGHTS. It's not like they're going broke - indeed, Apple is making money hand-over-fist! Many of the companies they are working with right now have operations over in Taiwan - a free country - so it might not even mean much disruption of contract ties.
.

At least Apple (and others) should make sure that each worker gets enough for the work to be able to buy an iPad or something for himself.

Christian

 

[Black Macbook]

If Apple was dignified they would sever all ties with Foxconn.

If that's going to mean any sort of delay in the iPad that I'm planning on buying eventually, then I strongly disagree. Suicides be damned, the show must go on.

And your "murder" conspiracy theory is both delusional and ridiculous, without a shred of evidence, I might add.

 

[hierobryan]

I'm speechless

You're a liar!

 

[Exponent]

At least Apple (and others) should make sure that each worker gets enough for the work to be able to buy an iPad or something for himself.

Christian

I'm quite sure that all pales in comparison to a) time for oneself, b) time to find a mate and start a family, c) the ability to worship as one chooses, d) the ability to raise a family in the manner you see fit (no disgusting forced abortions or such to force "one child per family" laws), etc., etc.

I know where you're coming from though, and that's a good place. This is what Henry Ford did in Michigan in the early 1900s - he wanted his workers to be able to afford the products (Model-Ts) that they were building. iPads have great use as an information access and (somewhat limited) creation device, so they aren't entirely trivial. But of course, this is China we're talking about, so that role is limited by state censorship as well.

 

[ri0ku]

Anyone who would kill themselves over losing a phone has more problems than being depressed in my opinion.

Makes you think... what is the punishment for such an event that they are willing to quit life before seeing the outcome of their mistake.

 

[TowerKind]

For what it's worth, the best stats I could find on suicide in China are from a paper in the Journal of Rural Health by Hu, Baker and Baker. Rates for men in Urban areas are 2.2/100K for 15-24 year olds and 3.3/100K for 25-34 year olds. With a workforce of ~400K workers, you might expect ~10 suicides per year depending on the average age of the employees, based on this data.

It's also worth noting that suicide rates tend to increase with age, so the rates in this group of workers would tend to be lower than the average seen in the population at large.

 

[Chaos123x]

Why do Apple products cost so much if they produce them in sweat shops?

Are there prices cheaper then when stuff was made in the USA? Or are they screwing over both the workers and the customers?

 

[alpa]

Just FYI, Foxconn / Hon Hai is a Taiwanese company and are listed in the Hong Kong stock exchange (Symbol: 2038.HK) and in Taiwan (Symbol: 2317.TW). Their stock has been going up/down 5-10% yesterday/today partly due to the wide coverage of this news.

 

[rmwebs]

To be honest, if Apple, or any of the other tech companies that use foxconn have ANY decency, they will demand that the working conditions improve immediately.

I'm taking an increase in salary, entertainment (e.g movie theaters, shops etc) and some form of team-building/employee relations system.

If the conditions don't improve, then I can see myself loosing all respect for Apple.

Also, a few interesting reads:

http://gizmodo.com/5542527/undercov...s-inside-chinas-brutal-foxconn-factory-2010-5

 

[rkswat]

I don't see what the big fuss is about. Sorry but I really don't give a hooties cow. Lots of people die every day. My brothers and sisters in arms are fighting in foreign lands, people are losing there homes every day, and people are dying (oops typo) right here in the US every day so sorry if I don't shed a tear for some people in China that decide to off themselves.

To be honest none of you probably really give a crap about any of them. The only thing that even makes this a story is the fact apple is involved in some way.
Now I know its trendy to worry about the poor unfortunate souls around the world that are offing themselves because they work for a company that makes the iPad/iPhone but when it comes down to it, how about we worry about those right here in our own country. (or which ever country you're living in).

 

[Cinnabar]

I'm just curious to see whether people would be prepared to pay more for electronics generally if they could be assured that they had been produced in an ethical way which enhances the life chances/opportunities of the workforce in the country where those electronics were produced?

I think I probably would, any views on this....?

 

[.Andy]

I don't see what the big fuss is about. Sorry but I really don't give a hooties cow. Lots of people die every day. My brothers and sisters in arms are fighting in foreign lands, people are losing there homes every day, and people are dyeing right here in the US every day so sorry if I don't shed a tear for some people in China that decide to off themselves.

To be honest none of you probably really give a crap about any of them. The only thing that even makes this a story is the fact apple is involved in some way.
Now I know its trendy to worry about the poor unfortunate souls around the world that are offing themselves because they work for a company that makes the iPad/iPhone but when it comes down to it, how about we worry about those right here in our own country. (or which ever country you're living in).

What an odd post. A weak justification for ignoring the situation that points the finger at just about everyone.

 

[Atkins]

According to Foxconn, they are owned by their largest customers... i.e. Apple
http://www.fih-foxconn.com/about/honhai.aspx

How do you conclude that from the link you sent?

http://nf.nfdaily.cn/epaper/nfzm/content/20100513/PageA01CJ.htm
Use Chrome or Google Translate to read as it's in Chinese.

What is your point with this article?

thx Retroneo, that's more facts than just number, i hope non-chinese Apple users could understand...

What facts?

This is getting REALLY bad press for Apple.
options?
buy out foxconn.
offer bonus severace packages and hold doury to all production lines and parts sourcing and move to a competitor? Implement staff to oversee rights abuse & other issues directly!

You live in a funny world...

With a ten percent unemployment rate here in Apple's home country, I can't believe they continue to support this foreign sweat shop tragedy. Sick. It's just SICK !!! I think Steve Jobs has taken his power trip too far this time.
BRING THE JOBS HOME TO AMERICA, WHERE WE HAVE LABOR RULES TO PROTECT WORKERS !!!!

Power trip? Lol. Good luck with transferring those jobs in America.

You have to compare Apples to Apples.
In a populace, who's most at risk for suicide? Common sense says that's the "despondent". Who typically falls into this group? The unemployed, the broke, the sick with no good prospects for getting better, the elderly, the young and confused and/or heartbroken, the mentally ill, the drug addicts, etc. etc.
Now, compare to the modern (in a good sense) factory worker populace. Unemployed? Nope. Broke? Well, they shouldn't be! Sick with no good prospects for improvement? Not typical if you're healthy enough to work an assembly job. Mentally ill? You probably wouldn't have passed the job interview. Drug addicts? You can't be that and show up for work at a high operational level.
In other words, the modern factory worker, in a sane situation, should not be despondent - or at least not nearly at the same rates as seen in the populace as a whole.

No prospects for improvement - they work and still, they do not have a future.

It's high time the free people of the world look out for each other, because, if you haven't noticed, the tyrannies of the world have been soaking up most of the money and jobs the last 18 years or so.

You do know who is empowering them?

To be honest, if Apple, or any of the other tech companies that use foxconn have ANY decency, they will demand that the working conditions improve immediately.

Sounds like an ultimatum - problem, Apple can't really give one on its own.

These workers are being MURDERED and silenced for their insubordination. Simple. It's not directly Apple's fault, but they DO have some blood on their hands metaphorically speaking, because they are business partners with them.

Wow.

This problem is not unique to Apple. When a company contracts with an overseas factory it doesn't have direct oversight of how the factory balances goals for efficiency and productivity with concerns for the well-being of employees. But a major company like Apple certainly has influence and can put on pressure.

And they are doing it.

Yeah, but they're suiciding at work, so it's safe to assume it's work related.

If they jump from a roof, is it safe to assume it is roof-related?

It's clear people are mistreated here. But the fact is you can only blame the whole system, and in fact suicides outside Foxconn can be contributed to their higher salaries, which makes life difficult for the farmers, for example. We can go on like that all day. It's a mixed bag.
To isolate Apple here just shows what is that all about (hint: not the workers). And Apple are doing what they can and must do - put pressure.

 

[rkswat]

What an odd post. A weak justification for ignoring the situation that points the finger at just about everyone.

I'm not ignoring it I don't give a ****. I'm not pointing any fingers.... before the "news" got out that this was going on how many of you saying how shocking and sad it is even thought about those poor workers? Probably none of you. If you did then I'm sorry for lumping you in with the others.

 

[.Andy]

I'm not pointing any fingers.... before the "news" got out that this was going on how many of you saying how shocking and sad it is even thought about those poor workers? Probably none of you.

You expect people to be shocked by the situation before they knew about it ? In your opinion what is the legitimate way to have learnt about this if not the media?

 

[Popeye206]

People, people, people

This is NOT a disaster for Apple... Steve Jobs has not gone too far and all the other insane things people are saying....

Most people got it right. 9 suicides out of 400,000 employees is not all that high. Also, Apple is not their only client. They build for a ton of high-tech companies not just Apple.

Now that said, I'm not a big fan of Chinese work methods/ethics. They work their people too long. 12-14 hour days are normal from what I heard last week on NPR. But this is not an issue for Apple to cure, it's something for the Chinese government to cure and maybe some pressure from our government wouldn't hurt. It's a human rights issue.... but you know as well as I do... someone has to do it so we can by all our gadgets (and not just Apple) at reasonable prices and China has taken that role.

Does not make it right, but none of this makes Apple wrong and it's good Apple is looking into the situation themselves to ensure their employees are being treated well.

 

[rkswat]

You expect people to be shocked by the situation before they knew about it ? In your opinion what is the legitimate way to have learnt about this if not the media?

Is it a surprise to you that China has a horrible history with human and workers rights? If it is then maybe you should put down the porn and tune into some news or read a newspaper or ffs google it. Plus the first person to kill themselves was when the first gen came out. How many of you do gooders have boycotted apple? Yeah, hypocrite comes to mind.