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Apple 'Independently Evaluating' Foxconn's Response to Suicides at Manufacturing Plant

I do not think there is anything to do with Apple pushing the production of the hardware. It's a cultural thing. The factory workers were treated like nothing but a robot and living without any respects. And after the 11th attempted suicide happened yesterday, 420,000 employees were forced to sign an agreement "not to hurt anybody in an extreme way" and "allow the Foxconn to send them to hospital for treatment if found abnormal". It demonstrated the handicapped of the management in the factory. The one who died yesterday has only joined Foxconn for 42 days. Instead of helping the workers, they are just forcing them to admit they are crazy. And according to the press, they worked day and night, how would they have time for counseling?
The worst thing is after such a high profile media reporting this, there is a good chance that they will start hiding more tragedy. It will be really sad if it ends up like that....
 
Prom1 said:
This is getting REALLY bad press for Apple.

options?
buy out foxconn.
offer bonus severace packages and hold doury to all production lines and parts sourcing and move to a competitor? Implement staff to oversee rights abuse & other issues directly!
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Bad press for Apple ? If folks read the whole story they would know it should be bad press for Dell and HP also.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/

"As you probably know, Foxconn is behind the assembly of many major consumer electronics brands including HP, Nokia, Dell, and Apple"
 
Becordial said:
Interesting. If this is this is so would it be a safe to assume they push the story to try create a lower entry price for something like AAPL? When you say it was being pushed by the usual suspects do you mean a media channel or some fund interests?
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Do some googling. It's collectively referred to as FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt). One source will report it, then all the bloggers will pick up the story almost immediately and it spreads like wildfire. You can generally count on CNBC to do it's part. And Bloomberg. Henry Blodget (banned for life from the securities industry but heading the SiliconAlleyInsider, and BusinessInsider) can be counted on. Savitz at Barron's is usually good for an assist. Cramer. Moritz. The list goes on. Apple is the largest target, but sometimes it's T, HP or VZ, or a non-U.S. company.
 
According to data from to the Association for Asian Research, the Chinese suicide rate is 230 per million. (FTA: "China’s suicide rate is 2.3 times the world average.")

As sad as these statistics are, the Chinese average of 230 per million is on the order of 9.2 times higher than the "10 per 400,000" inferred from the story. Even the worldwide average of 100 per million is still 4 times higher that what FoxConn is seeing.

This is one of those stories that sound absolutely horrendous when you read it, and it's always a personal tragedy for their loved ones, but the raw statistics don't bear out that this is the sociological tragedy this story makes it out to be. The sad fact is that there are a lot of college campuses all over the world that would like their suicide rates to drop to 25 per million (which is what FoxConn is actually experiencing).

This took me three minutes to look up. When did Bloomberg, et al, stop doing actual research for their stories?
 
mccldwll said:
Do some googling. It's collectively referred to as FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt). One source will report it, then all the bloggers will pick up the story almost immediately and it spreads like wildfire. You can generally count on CNBC to do it's part. And Bloomberg. Henry Blodget (banned for life from the securities industry but heading the SiliconAlleyInsider, and BusinessInsider) can be counted on. Savitz at Barron's is usually good for an assist. Cramer. Moritz. The list goes on. Apple is the largest target, but sometimes it's T, HP or VZ, or a non-U.S. company.
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Thanks. Aware of the commonplace FUD that goes on, but stock ramping and all of that is a very serious deal. In part it's the realtime media you've referred to and the acceptance of unattributed comments by even the mainstream guys that make it possible to spread this stuff. I'll read a bit more, but I know for a fact that rarely is their much enforcement on this front.
 
pcharles said:
My thoughts exactly. There was a time when Apple products were made in Western Nations, but in order for Apple to produce less expensive products while satisfying the share holders, they have to follow the computer industry and assemble in countries to reduce costs.

We, as western employees and consumers are responsible (not Apple) for the deaths in China because we demand less expensive products and higher wages to improve our standard of living. There comes a point where the math just does not work, and the companies are forced out of the country. You only have to look at the US auto industry. We can argue that people would buy US autos if they were any good (and that may be true), but the real problem is that it costs significantly more to make a car in the US than it does in an Asian country, even with the cost of shipping them.
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While generally true, many foreign auto companies manufacture their cars in North America (Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Lexus, to name a few). It would be interesting to see if small electronics could be successfully manufactured in this country. Our workforce might not be willing to do that type of assembly line work. There are lots of factors beyond labor costs which have pushed electronics manufacturing overseas.
 
jfremani said:
Does this mean we all have blood on our hands?
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The last time I read a thread like this, there were angry posts saying things like "Boycott Apple! Buy only MADE IN USA!"

So I posted a sarvastic response saying "Yeah! We should all buy Dell instead! ... oh, wait... well, HP then! Wait, what?" ... and it went on down the line, until we had crossed off all of the major laptop manufacturers, the gaming consoles, and the cell phones.

ARE there any major electronics being made in North America anymore? Or have we, collectively, demanded so much in the way of price reductions?

My first iPod, in 2003, cost $600 Canadian ($549 after the student discount). My PowerBook, also in 2003, cost about $2500. Today, you can get similar iPods for well under $300 and MacBook Pros for $1250 -- the price has been cut in half. Great for us consumers, but what corners had to be cut in order to reach those savings?

If we truly want to buy "made in America" again we either need to be willing to put our money where our mouths are, or have all of the major companies move at the exact same time, otherwise the first company to do it -- and raise their prices -- will simply get killed on the open market. I doubt it can happen.
 
Becordial said:
Thanks. Aware of the commonplace FUD that goes on, but stock ramping and all of that is a very serious deal. In part it's the realtime media you've referred to and the acceptance of unattributed comments by even the mainstream guys that make it possible to spread this stuff. I'll read a bit more, but I know for a fact that rarely is their much enforcement on this front.
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"Rarely" is an understatement. Cramer has an infamous video about tactics he used as a hedge fund manager to "foment" stocks. May still be possible to find it on YouTube.
 
GamecockMac said:
And when iPad pricing starts at $1000 and goes up from there, I suppose you won't be posting in these forums whining about how expensive Apple products are?
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Doubtless some will. But maybe they just need to come down from the cozy fantasy they've been living in and realize that --just maybe-- these devices can't be made as cheaply as everyone wants without a really unpleasant compromise.

Maybe the real cost of an iPad is north of $1K, and we've all just been deluding ourselves.

What difference does it make to Apple's bottom line if they sell a million iPads at $500, vs half a million at $1,000? Other than fewer eyeballs to throw ads at, not one thin dime.
 
John.B said:
According to data from to the Association for Asian Research, the Chinese suicide rate is 230 per million. (FTA: "China’s suicide rate is 2.3 times the world average.")

As sad as these statistics are, the Chinese average of 230 per million is on the order of 9.2 times higher than the "10 per 400,000" inferred from the story. Even the worldwide average of 100 per million is still 4 times higher that what FoxConn is seeing.
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You don't wonder if many murders are actually falsely reported as suicide? You've got a huge swath of underclass workers/peasants who are not afforded the same access to justice that we are accustomed to.
 
And let's not forget that the reason this stuff continues to be made in China is that they are holding the Yuan artificially low instead of letting it float against the rest of the world's currencies.

On another note:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn said:
Foxconn is the largest manufacturer of electronics and computer components worldwide and mainly manufactures on contract to other companies. Among other things, Foxconn produces the Mac mini, the iPod, the iPad, and the iPhone for Apple Inc.; Intel-branded motherboards for Intel Corp.; various orders for American computer manufacturers Dell and Hewlett-Packard; motherboards for UK computer manufacturer Zoostorm; the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 for Sony; the Wii for Nintendo; the Xbox 360 for Microsoft, cell phones for Motorola, the Amazon Kindle, and Cisco equipment
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If we're going to be outraged by the low suicide rates at FoxConn, shouldn't we also be outraged at Intel, Dell, HP, Zoostorm, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Motorola, Amazon, and Cisco?
 
John.B said:
And let's not forget that the reason this stuff continues to be made in China is that they are holding the Yuan artificially low instead of letting it float against the rest of the world's currencies.

On another note:

If we're going to be outraged by the low suicide rates at FoxConn, shouldn't we also be outraged at Intel, Dell, HP, Zoostorm, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Motorola, Amazon, and Cisco?
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Yes we should but this is the year of "let's bash Apple".;)
 
They do have problem

tlng13 said:
and it's shameful i'd say Chinese gov won't do anything to protect their citizens, instead they do the best to cover up all this 'accidents'...
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It is the company trying to cover up, it is mostly true at anywhere in the world. All your posts seemed trying to slander Chinese government.

Things could be better if they treated workers equally, "rumor" is that they paid 10 times more to people they hired from Taiwan than those majority they hired from mainland china. That company is from Taiwan . It is also rumored that for each iPad they assembled the profit to the company is only about $12!
 
Appp said:
It is also rumored that for each iPad they assembled the profit to the company is only about $12!
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Not an unreasonable estimate. Remember iSupply's report that the 16 gig iPad probably costs about $260 in component costs. We know it retails for $499. Retailers make very little profit on Apple products, so their cost is perhaps $479. Apple likes to make big margins on their products, maybe 20%? So we're looking at "cost" price of $383, minus those component costs, leaves about $123 to cover the costs of packaging, shipping, research and development, facilities overhead, warehousing, and all of the other middle-men, including the labour and overhead (profit) at the factory.
 
Appp said:
It is the company trying to cover up, it is mostly true at anywhere in the world. All your posts seemed trying to slander Chinese government.
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yes, it's a TW company, the latest news is, they are going to build a big net, size at 120 standard swimming pool to catch ppl who jumped from the buildings.....

yes, i don't like chinese gov, i'm a chinese who lives in Hong Kong, we are struggling hard to maintain our freedom, to have basic human rights like u ppl do, but chinese gov is taking away from us.... i gotta stop b4 going too far :eek:
 
Foxconn Makes PCs for HP and Dell too

Let's get this straight. I don't think all the suicides occurred only at plants making Apple products. HP and Dell are trying to stay quiet and let Apple taking the hit.
 
Is this the real cost of cheap manufacturing? what is the standard of living for these people who live at work?
 
Black Macbook said:
This Foxconn facility is impossibly huge. Chefs slaughter 6,000 pigs a day to feed the workforce of between 300,000 and 400,000 in this giant industrial complex, spread over 3 sq km, with young employees toiling to make household-name electronic products.
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That's like 60 people being fed off of one pig, which isn't bad at all... unless some pigs are divided up "more equal." :)
 
notjustjay said:
We know it retails for $499. Retailers make very little profit on Apple products, so their cost is perhaps $479.
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You made this number up, and it is not realistic.

Also you have chosen the price of the cheapest iPad. The more expensive models have a higher profit margin.
 
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