Apple Inks Deal With Volkswagen for Self-Driving Employee Shuttles

[alexgowers]

I find it so weird that Tesla can make a car company appear almost out of thin air yet Apple has gone the route of an autonomous car over everything else, including making the actual car! They sidestepped EV totally in favour of a feature that has so far yet to make a single penny for any company alone!

I want to think Apple is capable but they're too big, too wrapped in red tape and lacking in any vision right now. It's really sad to see such a forward thinking company become the old slow giant it used to berate.

Apple, if you make anything, make an EV/hybrid CAR and add the AI/self driving crap afterwards. The car is the product not the self driving part. The only way to make software in this area work is to own the car yourself or own a fleet like taxis etc. Car companies aren't stupid enough to let apple walk in and take over the self driving space.

 

[gwaizai]

With all the accidents and deaths why is Apple wasting their time with this? With the exception of the specially challenged or 80 plus adult, are the rest of us really going to give up the freedom driving affords? And there is already such a thing called a "taxi."

It's bad enough getting unwanted ads while listening to music on I tunes, can you imagine being locked up inside a car totally under the control of Apple? Apple Car: "We're going to stop at the mall and buy you that new HDTV that's on sale or else..."

Car owner: "Or else what?"

"You'll never make it home alive...hehe."

 

[WatchFromAfar]

I find it so weird that Tesla can make a car company appear almost out of thin air yet Apple has gone the route of an autonomous car over everything else, including making the actual car! They sidestepped EV totally in favour of a feature that has so far yet to make a single penny for any company alone!

I want to think Apple is capable but they're too big, too wrapped in red tape and lacking in any vision right now. It's really sad to see such a forward thinking company become the old slow giant it used to berate.

Apple, if you make anything, make an EV/hybrid CAR and add the AI/self driving crap afterwards. The car is the product not the self driving part. The only way to make software in this area work is to own the car yourself or own a fleet like taxis etc. Car companies aren't stupid enough to let apple walk in and take over the self driving space.

And Tesla haven't made a single cent in profit:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/e...fit-at-tesla-in-2018-and-much-more-2018-02-07
Great company

 

[cocky jeremy]

They can’t even make my iPhone bug free. As if I’m ever going to trust their driverless car software.
(That goes for all tech companies and all driverless cars as well).

It isn't about safety to me. Driving is fun. I'm not giving that up, sorry car companies.

 

[0002378]

Apple Car: "We're going to stop at the mall and buy you that new HDTV that's on sale or else..."

Car owner: "Or else what?"

"You'll never make it home alive...hehe."

You've watched Terminator or Total Recall one too many times, it would appear

 

[EdT]

Where do you get this idea that AI cars will have a lower accident rate? They've already racked up 5 or 6 deaths and there are only a handful of them in operation, with a low number of miles driven.

And where do you come up with 5 or 6 deaths and only a handful in operation?
Deaths:
Wiki

Most of the accidents and deaths have occurred on Tesla vehicles. Tesla 'autopilot' isn't rated as a true driverless car by any safety organization, and no government organization legally permits the operation of a Tesla in an unmonitored driving mode. The most recent US death was by an Uber vehicle in Arizona that was operating in auto mode legally.

And the reason Arizona was willing to license driverless cars is because someone paid a politician (Arizona/California Driverless Car War) a lot of money to look the other way despite there not being much data. And the reason driverless vehicles will keep being developed is because for OTR truck lines and taxis and busses the biggest cost these companies have is paying the driver. There is a huge economic benefit to getting rid of a driver for a lot of companies. And the companies are willing to pay to keep the testing going.

I don't think that driverless cars are right around the corner. I think that 2030 is the earliest it might-MIGHT- become common. Most of the testing is being done in fair weather states, not in states with a lot of rainy or snowy weather. I do think that because of the economic benefit to businesses that they will keep being developed. And yes, I think that they will reach a level of safety that human drivers never will, because we get tired or distracted.

But money is why this is going to happen. I also don't really think that Apple is going to be a big player in this field. It's not where their expertise has historically been, and they haven't been able to keep experts they've hired, for whatever reason. Going by track record, I don't think Waymo (Google) or Tesla is going to be first with a practical system either. All of the world-wide big auto makers are testing their own systems, and doing it methodically and quietly. I don't know which one will get there first, but one of them is who I would put my money on.

 

[_Kiki_]

T6 in diesel, it's a very nice and economic van

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Unsaid message to employees: make an unauthorized leak and oops! bad algorithm.

 

[shareef777]

They have way more design/tech than any other car company when they want to.

That’s a bold statement. I’d put Tesla ahead by a long shot.

 

[Rogifan]

Since electric cars are still in the development phase for most automakers except for Tesla, I’m betting that Apple is waiting to see who will be able to electrify the best and swoop in with an acquisition to get the hardware to implement their software.

This article claims that talks with BMW and Mercedes broke down because Apple wanted control of design. I’m assuming that includes the look of the car. It’s not like Apple to buy fully fledged consumer products. Usually it’s buying technology components that go into building their own products. Beats of course is an exception but nobody thinks Apple bought Beats for the headphones.

What I find interesting is people focus on the software as if the hardware is the hard part. Honestly I’d have more confidence in Apple being able to design/build a physical car than I would Apple being able to design the autonomous/self-driving software platform the car would run on.

 

[TheRealTVGuy]

Let the automobile manufacturers worry about vehicles, and let the computer companies focus on computers.

If we did that, in car infotainment system would still be crappy pieces of junk with non-intuitive on-screen controls and user interfaces that look like some hobbled form of Windows 3.1.

Apple is stretching itself way too thin, with hands in multiple cookie jars: automobiles, media production, smart devices... oh, and maybe a couple of computers, if they have the time. It's greed and hubris, plain and simple.

Because no company should EVER diversify or otherwise try to insulate itself from shifts in the markets in which they're involved.

Not to mention, no one has made a valid argument for what's so great about self-driving cars anyhow.... I don't see how computers are an improvement. The human brain is still light-years ahead... I'd trust my life to human judgement than a machine algorithm any day.

Computers take the emotion out of operating a vehicle. No more angry, frustrated, scared, etc. drivers going too fast/slow for the current road conditions. No more sudden lane changes without signals. No more poor decisions by drunk drivers, etc. Now, if the algorithms cause the computer to make a wrong decision then you may have an argument, but I contend that the logic of a computer may make us all safer and more efficient.

 

[wigby]

This is super interesting. It lets Apple continue to develop their self driving technology in a more restricted but useful manner. I think eventually Apple will sell off their self driving tech because they aren’t going to make a car themselves and can’t get automakers to
give them enough control. I don’t see how Apple can make themselves a major player in the self driving car market but I could see them developing the tech to the point a major player or group of players decides to buy it.
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They are shuttles (big vans). Nothing luxurious about public transit no matter how you paint it.

Since Apple cannot wrestle control from automakers, it's more likely they will simply buy the automaker of their choice when they are ready to get serious about self driving cars. Unlike tech companies, automakers are not overvalued so all of them are chump change. This deal with VW is just a proof of concept to show automakers that they are a player and serious about partnering (and eventually owning).

 

[nt5672]

I can't wait for the first few releases and then when its not generating 25% gross revenue just quit updating and assign the staff to something else. This will turn that $100,000 bus into $5 wind block. And I'll bet these self driving bus purchasers are not going to want to buy a new bus every 3 years.

Maybe then Apple will turn their efforts towards self driving spaceships.

 

[zen]

Can MacRumors please PLEASE stop saying that deals and contracts are "inked". It's grammatically correct but utterly asinine.

 

[MacDawg]

Can MacRumors please PLEASE stop saying that deals and contracts are "inked". It's grammatically correct but utterly asinine.

Geez, it's just a figure of speech like so many others we use daily in our communication

 

[BoulderAdonis]

Not to mention, no one has made a valid argument for what's so great about self-driving cars anyhow. For all the complaining people do about the dangers of humans behind the wheel, I don't see how computers are an improvement. The human brain is still light-years ahead of the most advanced electronic circuits in its ability to comprehend, adjust and integrate the multitude of information received when driving a vehicle (or performing any other complex task). For all its potential shortcomings, I'd trust my life to human judgement than a machine algorithm any day.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1705.01693

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...car-has-a-huge-impact-on-alleviating-traffic/

Looks like a prettty compelling reason to me ...

 

[macguru212]

Not the only company this can be said about, but Apple has lost its focus. This self-driving car baloney is evidence of that. Let the automobile manufacturers worry about vehicles, and let the computer companies focus on computers. Apple is stretching itself way too thin, with hands in multiple cookie jars: automobiles, media production, smart devices... oh, and maybe a couple of computers, if they have the time. It's greed and hubris, plain and simple; Apple's eyes are too big for its stomach.

Not to mention, no one has made a valid argument for what's so great about self-driving cars anyhow. For all the complaining people do about the dangers of humans behind the wheel, I don't see how computers are an improvement. The human brain is still light-years ahead of the most advanced electronic circuits in its ability to comprehend, adjust and integrate the multitude of information received when driving a vehicle (or performing any other complex task). For all its potential shortcomings, I'd trust my life to human judgement than a machine algorithm any day.

Self-driving cars can open the world to the blind, handicap, and otherwise immobile - bring independence and all that.
On a more personal note - sure, driving across the desert at 140 is a thrill or winding up mountain road is a joy to me, and I would hardly ever want a car to drive for me, but a lot of people simply hate driving and completely and totally suck at it. So, I think there is a need, at least to begin development now so that in 10 years it will be perfect. Just like my robot butler (when??)

 

[TerpNderp]

They can’t even make my iPhone bug free. As if I’m ever going to trust their driverless car software.
(That goes for all tech companies and all driverless cars as well).

If you know anything about software, you should know it’s impossible for software to be bug free. Software gets corrupt from user error. Blame the multitude of app developers that release crappy apps.

 

[topgunn]

I saw that Uber ram the poor woman who was walking her Bycicle. Self driving is Not ready. Not.

I saw that drunken driver ram the poor woman who was walking her bicycle. Human driving is not ready.

Anecdotes are fun.

 

[bluecoast]

Like many on this thread, I think that the Apple Car is never going to happen.

I suspect that the object recognition and AVR work that formed this project will eventually end up in 'Apple Glasses' & the other iOS derived products.

Here's a thought:

• Maybe one of the key reasons that Apple is setting up a TV studio is to pioneer AVR TV.
• Sure, 'Apple Glasses' on the street are probably 3-5 years away
• But Apple glasses at home, that you use in conjunction with your iPhone, iPad and TV (AVR TV) - well that does't seem too far away at all. 2019 or 2020 (2020 would be a great year to launch a new pair of glasses...)

Whether Apple has made phones or computers they have always been 'personal' objects in some shape or form.

Thus, the Watch feels more like the future of Apple, than does the car.

As does its application regarding health - if they get that right, nearly everyone is going to want a Watch on their wrists.

That's a lot of Watches.

And if my prediction about AVR TV and glasses are true, that's a lot of TVs and glasses.

If they can launch more personal products and guarantee privacy (unlike many of their competitors), then that's a great place to be in.

And bluntly, it's a position that is less likely to result in lawsuits involving products that kill and injure people.

EDIT: I could also see 'Apple Glasses' being used by drivers for HUD navigation etc. - sort of an extension of Car Play.

 

[jerryk]

Apple is far behind in this space. I wish them well, but I question whether they have the technical capability to complete head to head with Goggle/Waymo and others.

 

[lkrupp]

I find it so weird that Tesla can make a car company appear almost out of thin air yet Apple has gone the route of an autonomous car over everything else, including making the actual car! They sidestepped EV totally in favour of a feature that has so far yet to make a single penny for any company alone!

I want to think Apple is capable but they're too big, too wrapped in red tape and lacking in any vision right now. It's really sad to see such a forward thinking company become the old slow giant it used to berate.

Apple, if you make anything, make an EV/hybrid CAR and add the AI/self driving crap afterwards. The car is the product not the self driving part. The only way to make software in this area work is to own the car yourself or own a fleet like taxis etc. Car companies aren't stupid enough to let apple walk in and take over the self driving space.

Yeah, well, you know, that’s like... ah... your opinion, man. Your circle said the same thing about the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the Watch, etc. Apple is always behind the curve, late to the game, playing catchup, not innovating, etc. But then, against all odds and the better judgement of pundits and critics, Apple seems to take over a market. As for your comment about “Car companies aren’t stupid enough to let apple walk in and take over the self driving space...” I seem to remember smartphone makers like Nokia saying something similar. Car companies don’t have the software chops to make their own AI driving platform. I mean just look at the jokes they call their entertainment systems. Smart radios? Not hardly. So they were forced by the market to support CarPlay and Android Auto.

 

[xalea]

Apple isn't good at just letting things die. Like the Homepod, Homekit, now the car, etc. Sometimes things just don't work out and you have to cut your losses and move on. This is a sign of a giant, bloated, bureaucratic type of company that wastes time and money going nowhere.
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Seems to conflict with the idea of getting people off their butt and moving.

I’d rather walk than be shuttled around campus.

What about older people who want to keep working but have mobility issues? Disabled people? Sure it might be fine for you to walk around Cupterino, CA but come to Houston, TX in July sometime. Nobody wants to walk 10 feet in business attire. There's a world beyond your limited scope, ya know.

 

[mingravity]

Kinda strange they went with VW if their initial choices were Mercedes and BMW. You'd think they'd try with Audi, Lexus, Acura, or some other luxury brand. I've always seen VW cars as kinda vanilla. Not bad cars, but they don't really include the design/tech that you'd expect out of Apple.

true but VW group (the parent) holds major brands and market share. so starting with VW would help in easy expansion provided its a success.

 

[69Mustang]

Since electric cars are still in the development phase for most automakers except for Tesla

Uh, whaaaaa? Development phase? Every major automaker has an electric vehicle for sale. Some have multiple. I'm not even including hybrids. I'm talking strictly battery electric vehicles (BEV's).