Apple Inks Deal With Volkswagen for Self-Driving Employee Shuttles

[mgauss7]

Apple has signed a deal with Volkswagen to use Volkswagen vans as self-driving shuttles designed to transport employees around its various campuses and office buildings in the San Francisco Bay Area, reports The New York Times.

Apple has been working on developing the shuttle program, called "PAIL" or Palo Alto to Infinite Loop, since last summer. At the time news of Apple's work on the program first surfaced, the company was said to be planning to install its own self-driving software in a commercial vehicle from an automaker, which has turned out to be Volkswagen.

One of the Lexus SUVs Apple uses to test its autonomous driving software​

Under the terms of the deal, T6 Transporter vans from Volkswagen will be turned into self-driving shuttles for employees.

Apple's self-driving shuttle program is said to be behind schedule and "consuming nearly all of the Apple car team's attention," hinting at ongoing problems on its car-related project, which has already been scaled back.

Apple originally had grander plans for autonomous vehicles and over the course of the past several years, attempted to ink deals with companies like BMW and Mercedes-Benz, which would have led to the development of an all-electric autonomous vehicle.

According to today's report, no deal was able to be established because Apple was asking potential partner companies to "hand over control" of data and design, something no car manufacturer was prepared to do.

When its grandiose self-driving vehicle plans fell through, Apple shifted focus to autonomous driving software under the leadership of Bob Mansfield.

Apple is now working on its shuttle program and has been testing several Lexus SUVs equipped with self-driving hardware and software out on the streets of Cupertino and surrounding areas. Beyond the shuttle plan, Apple is said to have no clear idea of what it's going to do with its autonomous driving project.

Article Link: Apple Inks Deal With Volkswagen for Self-Driving Employee Shuttles

This is so stupid. Self driving cars are some 50 years away. Firstly the software is not ready at all. I saw how the Uber car just rammed the woman just walking her bicycle across the intersection. Even a 6 year old would have press the brake pedal. The software was so busy trying to decide God know why and killed someone.

No matter what, the first time an Apple car kills a child, that will be the end of the program. For sure. The jury will decide for billions.

The autocar software would have to understand:
-people passing out onto the road
-people walking backwards
-people sliding on ice
-people trying to commit suicide
-people listening to iTunes on their Drakes
-people who are blind
-people trying to trick the cars

Its just endless and computers have no malice, no guile

 

[truthertech]

"Apple is said to have no clear idea of what it's going to do with its autonomous driving project."

LOL. How did this escape an editor's eye? Yes, Apple is spending hundreds of millions of dollars and has one of the largest fleets of self-driving cars on the road, and just inked a contract with Volkswagen, but it has NO idea what it's going to do. LOL.

 

[69Mustang]

That’s a bold statement. I’d put Tesla ahead by a long shot.

Tee hee. Tesla is still learning how to build a car properly at volume. They have yet to deliver on the promise of a $35K car for the masses. Probably won't be delivering one any time soon either.

 

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

I see headlines like this and think "WTF, Apple? Fix your keyboards and come out with usable computer gear, please!"

Typed on my new XPS. Wasn't compelled to get a Mac laptop this go-round.

 

[arkitect]

Its just endless and computers have no malice, no guile

They also lack any empathy — No ability to give and take.

Those human nuances, I just can't see A.I. being up to that for quite a while yet.

 

[truthertech]

I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment, but it does put the cart before the horse. Massive infrastructure improvements are going to be needed before widespread adoption becomes a reality. Our roads and bridges (US) are in dire need of improvements and it's going to cost a tremendous amount of money to fix. Infrastructure projects aren't sexy so they are usually ignored. That can gets kicked down road hoping someone else will deal with it.

Actually, autonomous vehicles will eventually significantly REDUCE infrastructure costs. When there are fleets of these vehicles that can be summoned at will, ownership will plummet and there will be a massively reduced need for parking lanes and structures. Car pooling, e.g., Uber Pool, will become in demand because it will be convenient and less expensive, hugely reducing number of single vehicle trips that reducing road impacts.

 

[charlituna]

I smell another #gate in near future

LawGate perhaps. the number one thing that's probably holding the project back, if it actually is, is likely legal. with all the various oops that have happened over the past couple of years, Apple will have to make sure that they have everything perfect before they can take this totally live.

not to mention if they don't address the kinds of issues we've heard about, they will have a lack of staff confidence in actually using the service.
[doublepost=1527175229][/doublepost]

Actually, autonomous vehicles will eventually significantly REDUCE infrastructure costs.

eventually yes. but in the meantime there might be a rise due to cities/states wanting to add smart signals systems etc.

 

[truthertech]

I saw that Uber ram the poor woman who was walking her Bycicle. Self driving is Not ready. Not.

Yes autonomous vehicles can still be improved. But today if there were only autonomous vehicles with existing technology millions of lives would be saved. If you want to stick with only human driven cars, keep in mind they kill over 3200 people EVERY day, or over 1.3 million people a year. LOL. I'll take my chances with a computer versus your random human driver who's texting, sleepy, distracted, drunk, etc.

 

[charlituna]

I'll take my chances with a computer versus your random human driver who's texting, sleepy, distracted, drunk, etc.

but a computer that can't tell the difference between a person who is likely about 5 feet tall and 100 lbs or bigger and a bag etc isn't really better than a sleepy driver. because of that error folks will always wonder if perhaps the accident could have been avoided or at least not a head on ramming regardless of the fact that she apparently ran out in the middle of the road

 

[chrisbru]

Seems to conflict with the idea of getting people off their butt and moving.

I’d rather walk than be shuttled around campus.

The campus is huge, and Apple doesn't want employees spending over an hour of their work day getting from place to place.

 

[mi7chy]

Apple had to settle for a reject. Not even Volvo but Volkswagen which is like bottom of the list of desirable auto manufacturer. At least they both share one thing in common with scandals from emissions and battery throttling.

 

[trusso]

I'm bowing out of this discussion. A few of us, on both sides of the argument (for self-driving vehicles), make logical and reasoned arguments. There are also quite a few of us who revel in taking one's words out of context, or fail to understand the other's point-of-view, and instead merely use the opposing side as a stepping stone to sound off while making little sense.

The thing about conversation, discussion and argument is that there is generally not one right answer, nor is one side in possession of the whole truth, while the other side is entirely wrong. The trouble with conversation over the internet, great as it may be for connecting people from disparate regions and backgrounds, is that it tends to make us forget that we are all in this together. Disagreements do not make the differing parties enemies. While many of us enjoy believing that we're in possession of the one real truth, a select few of us recognize that we will be learning our entire lives.

It's been fun.

 

[imola.zhp]

Interesting- was not aware the T6 was approved for USDM use...

Cool that Apple is using VW T6 vans. I wonder if they'll get the California model? It was always funny to me that the one place you couldn't buy a VW California van was ... California .
[doublepost=1527123136][/doublepost]

Agreed. I wonder if they're only using them on non-public roads?

I think this is a silent slip that the T6 is coming to the US. US auto news websites are all abuzz about the latest California T6 being in... California, several of them have been driving them around.

EDIT: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/24/2018-volkswagen-california-video-review-camper-van-tease/

 

[zeram1]

Apple has definitely lost their way, that is of course unless one thinks that money is the only purpose in life. They boast how "clean" they are, and at the same time, partner up with a company that blatantly lied and polluted the world in order to just make euros.

 

[truthertech]

but a computer that can't tell the difference between a person who is likely about 5 feet tall and 100 lbs or bigger and a bag etc isn't really better than a sleepy driver. because of that error folks will always wonder if perhaps the accident could have been avoided or at least not a head on ramming regardless of the fact that she apparently ran out in the middle of the road

Autonomous vehicles have already driven many millions of miles with a vastly lower rate of accidents than humans, as expected since over 94% of all accidents are due to human error. Computers won't be perfect drivers, but infinitely safer than humans. Insurance companies are all about empirical data and it's they who will drive adoption as you will be at lower rate the more autonomous features you have. Indeed, we may not be far from the day where auto insurance companies will require it.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Autonomous vehicles have already driven many millions of miles with a vastly lower rate of accidents than humans, as expected since over 94% of all accidents are due to human error. Computers won't be perfect drivers, but infinitely safer than humans. Insurance companies are all about empirical data and it's they who will drive adoption as you will be at lower rate the more autonomous features you have. Indeed, we may not be far from the day where auto insurance companies will require it.

This is it, fundamentally. But you have to factor in the human tendency to believe that we're a lot better at things than we really are. So even if accident rates could be cut by 90% with automation, the vast majority of people would still hold firmly to the belief that they are better and safer drivers than any computer. A lot of making self-driving cars a reality is less the technical problems, which can be solved in time, but in overcoming distorted human perceptions of our own abilities. We like to feel in control, even when we aren't, and even when it is dangerous to be in control. That's the tough problem.

 

[wilsonlaidlaw]

Here's a suggestion for you Apple - bin the self driving software which no major car maker will use for their own cars, on the basis of "not invented here". You could then reallocate the resources you save, into sorting out the hundreds of thousands of failing MacBook Pro keyboards and thereby rescue your reputation with your previously loyal customer base.

 

[CrystalQuest76]

While it takes just a few developers to create some truly great and cool technology, they are putting more and more people out of work.

Just since technology can be created to do a thing, does not mean it should be done.

 

[flyinmac]

Apple isn't good at just letting things die. Like the Homepod, Homekit, now the car, etc. Sometimes things just don't work out and you have to cut your losses and move on. This is a sign of a giant, bloated, bureaucratic type of company that wastes time and money going nowhere.
[doublepost=1527172523][/doublepost]
What about older people who want to keep working but have mobility issues? Disabled people? Sure it might be fine for you to walk around Cupterino, CA but come to Houston, TX in July sometime. Nobody wants to walk 10 feet in business attire. There's a world beyond your limited scope, ya know.

Full of assumptions aren’t you.

Older people... check
Mobility issues... check
Disabled... check
Temperature extremes... check

Hmm.... any other assumptions you care to make?

I live in an area that fluctuates from 60 and 80 below zero to 130 degrees in the shade.

Medically, my body shouldn’t function at all. I fight it and make it work.

Walking isn’t easy. Getting out of bed isn’t easy. I have a combination of injuries and conditions that there is no medical cure or fix.

The only reason I’m not stuck in bed is my determination and refusal.

So you want to run that past me again???

Why would I rather walk? For the same reason I do everything... because supposedly I can’t do it. You know what I say when they tell me it’s not possible??? Watch this!!!

I don’t care if it’s a doctor saying I’ll be confined to a wheelchair or my body saying it won’t work.

I was supposed to be bedridden 20 years ago.

As for wanting to work... guess what, many of us also have the factor of no choice. Not like the government is going to take care of us.

I see so many fully able bodied people getting benefits. I know some of them and know what their supposed issue is.

But then there’s people like me who the government says we don’t qualify. Amazing what counts and what doesn’t.

A little overweight (still less than most in my family) and yep sit on your butt, we’ll pay your rent and buy your food, and get you a parking space up front.

Oh... incurable impairments, not one properly functional part in your body, prone to spontaneous collapse, a combination of severe injuries and genetic impairments that affect every nerve and muscle in your body. Hmmm..... yeah sorry, there’s no benefits for you because you have a functioning brain and since you can think, you are able to work doing something.

Yeah... guess what... the ones who are just 30 or 40 pounds overweight... their brains work too. And they’re curable.

But, yes, I’d rather work. It’s just sad that people who have it so easy sit around and don’t try.

And no, I don’t think we should be shuttled around a campus unless we legitimately cannot walk at all. But even then, I’m betting the Volkswagen isn’t equipped with a ramp and lockdown for a wheelchair. And even if I were willing to give up and use a wheelchair, I would still likely just use the chair to get to the next building (not implying that everyone in a chair gave up - I know there are legitimate reasons).

 

[kanki1985]

So we can't trust humans to drive, but we can trust humans to design algorithms by which computers drive? By your logic, I am better off trusting my life to a few hundred engineers whom I've never met (and who will most likely never face direct responsibility for potential failures of their design) than I am trusting the men and women driving next to me, who have as equal and vested an interest in our mutual safety as I do.

Just to let you know, you already trust most of your life, your privacy, your data in the hands of those engineers you have never met already, if they were to screw up, you are better off dead anyways
however, what I was alluding to was consistency, software do not have harmones to drive their decisions + with AI+ML, things get to be much much safer over a period of time.
[doublepost=1527183885][/doublepost]

While it takes just a few developers to create some truly great and cool technology, they are putting more and more people out of work.

Just since technology can be created to do a thing, does not mean it should be done.

Thats pretty naive understanding of technology. This was a similar fear in my fathers generation in India where banks were the next big thing and were saturated, I heard every day from him how I may never have a job. Yet here I am and I am pretty sure the next generation will have something awesom-er to do.

 

[EdT]

What with all the experts chiming in about Safey I’m really surprised that a few real common safety phrases haven’t even been mentioned, let alone discussed.

One is ‘Control Reliable’. This is a phrase that means that the automated controls are designed in such a way that the failure of a single component within the system will not prevent a normal stopping action from taking place but will prevent a new cycle from being initiated.

Another term I haven’t seen is ANSI, which is the group which sets safety standards for factory automation. Ever hear someone talk about OSHA standards? OSHA standards don’t exist. OSHA says that a device or machine must meet relevant safety standards devised by a recognized standards organization. ANSI is one of those (NEC is another, for anyone thinking about wiring something in their house).

ANSI Standard B56 governs Automated Guided Vehicles (AGV’s). Right now that mostly means automated pick and place self driving warehouse vehicles but who knows, maybe they’ll lump self driving cars into this category. There are similarities.

Point being is that some organization will end up setting the safety requirements and before that product can be sold to the general public it will have to meet those standards. ANSI is not a government agency but an industry sponsored group whose standards are recognized as being ones OSHA can use to determine safety. Right now the testing is mostly being done because of exemptions granted by states, or it’s being done on private test facilities. If too many people die because some politician is ignoring safety I guess that is a problem, but people in that state will have to be held responsible if the public keeps dying.

ANSI may not end up having anything to do with self driving cars, but some industry organization, perhaps a new one, will. And neither Apple nor Tesla nor Waymo nor ANY car maker will be able to sell a self driving car without meeting whatever standards this organization eventually comes up with.

 

[deaglecat]

LoL they deserve each other ....

 

[0958400]

Kinda strange they went with VW if their initial choices were Mercedes and BMW. You'd think they'd try with Audi, Lexus, Acura, or some other luxury brand. I've always seen VW cars as kinda vanilla. Not bad cars, but they don't really include the design/tech that you'd expect out of Apple.

You are aware that Audi belongs to VW (as well as Skoda and others)? And that they share the components? Implementing it into a VW is the same as implementing it into an Audi, trust me on that. It just seems less high-profile, I agree with that.

 

[kanki1985]

You seem to have no experience with technology.

Define experience? You seem to have no experience with judgements!

 

[0002378]

Define experience? You seem to have no experience with judgements!

It's just that if you've worked with technology, esp. in some kind of development capacity, you'll know that it is just as problematic as dealing with people.

Software, when it is developed, goes through multiple stages of verification and testing, before it is released into production and made available to customers. Despite best efforts, software is almost always released with bugs. It is an ongoing process to keep software free from major bugs, and that process is never really complete.

So, first of all, imagine how complex driving software would be. How many use cases and scenarios to test. How many possible bugs. It is insane to think that software can ever be trusted to drive a car, no matter how many iterations of testing and fixing it goes through.

Yes, like you said, people can be idiotic drivers too, and they are. Some get behind the wheel drunk, some text while driving, some engage in oral sex while driving. But, they have an ability for creative problem solving that no computer will ever match.