Apple Intelligence Features Not Coming to European Union at Launch Due to DMA

[vantelimus]

An how many decades do we have to wait for that? Should we in the meantime let Apple and Google rent seek without competition? You can do that in the US if you want. Your government, your rules.

You don't have to wait long if someone wants to invest the capital to do it. It won't take nearly as much as it cost Apple or Google to get to where they are today because the technology can be bought off the shelf now, with much of the software in open source.

The fact that no one wants to invest the capital should tell you something. Smart capital is being deployed in areas where the payoff is potentially greater. Those are areas unknown to people who lack the ability to innovate and believe their government should slice off pieces of Apple's pie and feed it to them like they are helpless children.

So, if you wish to see Apple have more competition, maybe you should innovate and provide some competition. It does no one any good for you to whine about competition when you can't compete.

By the way, understand that behavioral marketing studies have shown that people only want two or three choices in any given category. They don't want 25 different brands offering relative undifferentiated substitutes for the same product. So, don't be surprised when there are only 2 or 3 me-too competitors to Apple's App Store that rise to any prominence in any given protectionist political region. I wish it were different, but I try not to let my wishes cloud scientifically verified facts.

 

[Beautyspin]

Again, there's nothing special that these indie stores are doing during review process compared to App Store. There's only so many thing you can check at review time.

Saying "well the livelihood of a small App Store is dependent on a good review process" doesn't make the review process architecturally better than what Apple is doing.

How do you know that there is nothing that the 3rd party stores can do better? Then why do they keep saying Appstore is better than Playstore if there is nothing that Appstore can do better than Playstore? You cannot have it both ways.

 

[breenmask]

How do you know that there is nothing that the 3rd party stores can do better?

The fundamental review process would be the same. Unless they ask for source code access (which no developer would agree to), the people reviewing apps in 3rd party stores have the same capabilities compared to an Apple review process.

 

[m4mario]

I used to share this opinion for many years. But I think Apple's and our interests have been diverging slowly over the years. This is what happens when two huge companies dominate a market where there is practically no hope of an another competitor emerging.

Two points
1) For large companies, its just more practical to set a customer centric mission and work towards it for sake of things like employee morale, employee retention, avoiding whistle blowers, customer satisfaction.... than to sit behind closed walls and scheme against customers. As some would have you believe.
2) Who are these some who give us an anti-large corp narrative? Politicians, Media, YouTubers, competing companies' marketing departments looking for an "Apple vs us" narrative. If you didn't realise, I'll assure you the latter is nothing but a marketing ploy. All of these people have some form of personal gain in this narrative.

It's just very difficult for these companies to succeed continuously in the long run without having major wins in terms of customer usage, customer satisfaction, developer engagement, developer income, etc.

 

[darkpaw]

In 2006 Symbian had 67% of SmartPhone market share and Windows Phone had 14%. As we all know, it was clearly impossible for someone to come in and disrupt that.

As someone who worked at Symbian when the iPhone was announced, I can tell you that part of the reason they failed is because they felt they were too big to fail. They had massive market share, and Steve Jobs said he only wanted 1%, so they assumed they were going to be fine.

It was dumb. They barely changed anything. I can't remember a single roadmap change.

 

[chmania]

How much money did he save by buying specialized equipment and tearing phones apart to learn how to do that upgrade? The difference in cost between a 128MB and 1TB phone is $500.

You have to remember, that he is Chinese and that the Apple stuff is made in China. The Chinese know how to do that better. 😊 If you've watched the video carefully, you'd have noticed the equipment he uses, and that they produce the batteries, memory chips etc. Practically all that's inside your iPhone is made in China...

If you want to risk bricking your phone by breaking something, you can do that to your heart's content. No one is stopping you. It's your phone. Apple isn't responsible if you have a problem later.

When was Apple was responsible for your phone?

 

[Beautyspin]

The fundamental review process would be the same. Unless they ask for source code access (which no developer would agree to), the people reviewing apps in 3rd party stores have the same capabilities compared to an Apple review process.

Then why do people say Appstore is better than Playstore? Can't have it both ways.

 

[laptech]

oh dear. As the UK is no longer in the EU (European Union) it could mean even more people now entering the UK because their all important iphone will not have the same features as those from within the EU.

UK border control: Why are you wanting to claim asylum in the UK?
Person A: I fear for my health. My mental health is shattered because my life is being destroyed by my iphone not having the new iphone features that are only available in the UK. I cannot live without them, it is a human right.

A bit tongue in cheek I know but it would not surprise me if people did try it on.

 

[chmania]

UK border control: Why are you wanting to claim asylum in the UK?
Person A: I fear for my health. My mental health is shattered because my life is being destroyed by my iphone not having the new iphone features that are only available in the UK.

When one has mental health problems one goes to an asylum...😏

 

[MilaM]

It's just very difficult for these companies to succeed continuously in the long run without having major wins in terms of customer usage, customer satisfaction, developer engagement, developer income, etc.

The best counterexample in my opinion is Microsoft. Do you think Windows is the default on PCs, because it's the most customer-centric product for PCs? Or maybe the ecosystem has just grown so large, that no commercial endeavor can realistically replace what was created by countless programmers outside of MS. My worry is, that because of economic pressures, Apple will become the Microsoft of mobile.

 

[MilaM]

The fact that no one wants to invest the capital should tell you something. Smart capital is being deployed in areas where the payoff is potentially greater. Those are areas unknown to people who lack the ability to innovate and believe their government should slice off pieces of Apple's pie and feed it to them like they are helpless children.

So, if you wish to see Apple have more competition, maybe you should innovate and provide some competition. It does no one any good for you to whine about competition when you can't compete.

It's quite difficult to compete, when you have to invent a complete hardware and OS ecosystem before you even start your actual endeavor.

On example. Say you want to create the next browser to compete with Google. It's already hard enough as it is. But now you have the problem, that you can't even exist on iPhones and iPads, because Apple says browsers are prohibited for distribution on the App Store. Google might allow it, but could put other hidden obstacles in your way in the Android.

Should we not have competition in the browser space, just because we have hardly any competition in the mobile OS space?

 

[laptech]

Apple could easily win here but they won't due to their instance that they want their money any way, any how. To anyone with a brain it is easy to see why Apple introduced the CTF because it is to stop the big app players from leaving the app store and going it alone in a rival app store in the EU. Apple receive billions of $$$ every year from the big app players due to the rules it's set out in it's app store over in-app purchases. Just think of the situation of these big app players if they were to leave Apples app store to move to a 3rd party app store within the EU that did not have such conditions regarding in-app purchases but instead required just a monthly payment for using the 3rd party app store. Apple would instantly lose billions of $$$ a year due to the moves but a way to prevent this was to introduce CTF because they know if any of the big app players were to leave Apple's app store to join a 3rd party app store Apple knows due to the popularity of the apps, the big app players would quickly break CTF and thus cause them to pay Apple. Without the CTF in place Apple stands to lose billions of $$$ in app store revenue if the big players were to leave the app store and move to a 3rd party app store where they do not have the same in-app purchase requirements as Apples app store does.

The arrogance of Apple knows no bounds because there was a case recently where an EU country imposed a ruling on Apple to stop doing something (I cannot remember the country or the specifics) and if they did not stop the country would introduce a fine every week or month, I forget which. Apple did not comply and just kept on paying the weekly/monthly fine until they could find a solution that worked for them. Most companies would have stopped, sat round the table and bashed out a working deal but no not Apple, they carried on and kept paying the fine because they knew they could afford it.

Apple will just do the same here, they will pay whatever the fine will be and carry on until they can find another way to make the big app players pay money too Apple even if they were to leave Apples app store.

 

[shenfrey]

oh dear. As the UK is no longer in the EU (European Union) it could mean even more people now entering the UK because their all important iphone will not have the same features as those from within the EU.

UK border control: Why are you wanting to claim asylum in the UK?
Person A: I fear for my health. My mental health is shattered because my life is being destroyed by my iphone not having the new iphone features that are only available in the UK. I cannot live without them, it is a human right.

A bit tongue in cheek I know but it would not surprise me if people did try it on.

Or they just import their iPhone?

 

[surferfb]

Ben Thompson has a good point in his newsletter this morning - how on earth is Apple Intelligence supposed to function in the EU given the DMA says this in Article 5?

The gatekeeper shall not…combine personal data from the relevant core platform service with personal data from any further core platform services or from any other services provided by the gatekeeper or with personal data from third-party services.

As Thompson explains

This pretty expressly forbids Apple Intelligence’s core differentiation: the entire reason why Apple Intelligence is compelling is that Apple, by virtue of controlling the platform, has access to data that no one else does. The promise of Apple Intelligence is that Apple can leverage that access to provide AI functionality that no one else can. However, Apple Intelligence is a “further core platform service” and the DMA forbids it from accessing personal data from the core platform service!

So yeah. Don’t think this is Apple being spiteful here. They’re complying.

 

[laptech]

Ben Thompson has a good point in his newsletter this morning - how on earth is Apple Intelligence supposed to function in the EU given the DMA says this in Article 5?



As Thompson explains



So yeah. Don’t think this is Apple being spiteful here. They’re complying.

Maybe that is the reason for the DMA, to stop Apple doing what it is doing with users personal data. Just because Apple introduces Apple Intelligence does not mean it's right to do so because of the level of intrusion needed upon users personal data.

People have seem to forgotten , just because Apple does something with regards to users personal data does not make it right and this is why the EU has such a thing as the DMA, to rein in the control of companies who think they can do as they wish with users personal data.

 

[surferfb]

Maybe that is the reason for the DMA, to stop Apple doing what it is doing with users personal data. Just because Apple introduces Apple Intelligence does not mean it's right to do so because of the level of intrusion needed upon users personal data.

People have seem to forgotten , just because Apple does something with regards to users personal data does not make it right and this is why the EU has such a thing as the DMA, to rein in the control of companies who think they can do as they wish with users personal data.

Apple Intelligence can be turned off in settings if you don’t want to use it.

Amazing. This entire thread has been people complaining Apple is being spiteful and not giving EU citizens access to Apple Intelligence because Apple is mad about the DMA. Now someone points out that Apple Intelligence is actually seemingly prohibited by the DMA the first response is “well if the DMA prohibits it, it must be bad”. Gotta love MacRumors 🤣

 

[MilaM]

Amazing. This entire thread has been people complaining Apple is being spiteful and not giving EU citizens access to Apple Intelligence because Apple is mad about the DMA. Now someone points out that Apple Intelligence is actually seemingly prohibited by the DMA the first response is “well if the DMA prohibits it, it must be bad”. Gotta love MacRumors 🤣

I think most sane commenter saw some technical validity regarding AI being postponed. Not releasing the mirroring feature is much less clear.

 

[surferfb]

I think most sane commenter saw some technical validity regarding AI being postponed. Not releasing the mirroring feature is much less clear.

Is Apple allowed to enable screen sharing for Mac, but not Windows under the DMA? I don’t think the answer to that question is clear at all. Which is why I think they’re being cautious. I mean, with the size of fines we’re talking about they have every right to be.

 

[MilaM]

Is Apple allowed to enable screen sharing for Mac, but not Windows under the DMA? I don’t think the answer to that question is clear at all. Which is why I think they’re being cautious. I mean, with the size of fines we’re talking about they have every right to be.

I don't buy, how after years of public deliberations, Apple is suddenly acting surprised about the content of this law. They have the best lawyers and the most direct access to decision makers anyone can get, since there is only a handful of companies even covered by the law. It should be easy to get clarification from the EC. If they don't want to release some features because of the DMA, so be it. Throwing the equivalent of a corporate tantrum on the other hand is just damaging their credibility.

 

[vantelimus]

When was Apple was responsible for your phone?

it’s called a warrant. They are required by law in most jurisdictions.

 

[vantelimus]

It's quite difficult to compete, when you have to invent a complete hardware and OS ecosystem before you even start your actual endeavor.

‘You missed the part where I pointed out that you don’t have to invent most of that stuff. You can get the hardware from an OEM. Most of the software is available as open source. Of course, if you have no innovation of your own, you can only compete on price.

On example. Say you want to create the next browser to compete with Google. It's already hard enough as it is. But now you have the problem, that you can't even exist on iPhones and iPads, because Apple says browsers are prohibited for distribution on the App Store. Google might allow it, but could put other hidden obstacles in your way in the Android.

You can say you want to create a browser to compete with Google all you want. You can even clone WebKit and have one running on a number of platforms in short order. But you still need a way to make money and to provide value to the customer. Why would I want to use your browser?

Should we not have competition in the browser space, just because we have hardly any competition in the mobile OS space?

There is competition in the browser space, though there is precious little value difference between the offerings. You’d be better off trying to innovate in a growth market instead of offering a me-too product in a saturated market that is no longer growing. Passing laws and using government clout to muck with well functioning markets (essentially forcing tax payers to subsidize non-innovative, unwise investments) works counter to the goals of stimulating innovation, competition, social progress, and economic growth.

 

[MilaM]

You can say you want to create a browser to compete with Google all you want. You can even clone WebKit and have one running on a number of platforms in short order. But you still need a way to make money and to provide value to the customer. Why would I want to use your browser?

There is competition in the browser space, though there is precious little value difference between the offerings. You’d be better off trying to innovate instead of me too into a market that is no longer growing.

You have not addressed my point. Because Apple prohibits all browser engines on iOS but its own, you don't even have a chance to compete in this space on mobile. If it's a good idea to make this your business is a completely different question.

 

[surferfb]

I don't buy, how after years of public deliberations, Apple is suddenly acting surprised about the content of this law. They have the best lawyers and the most direct access to decision makers anyone can get, since there is only a handful of companies even covered by the law. It should be easy to get clarification from the EC. If they don't want to release some features because of the DMA, so be it. Throwing the equivalent of a corporate tantrum on the other hand is just damaging their credibility.

And if, with access to the best lawyers and decision makers, they are saying “we can’t release these three features in the EU” why do you assume they’re throwing a tantrum vs. have a very good reason?

My guess is because you want the features, like the DMA, and don’t want to acknowledge that the DMA is making Apple’s products worse for you.

 

[MilaM]

My guess is because you want the features, like the DMA, and don’t want to acknowledge that the DMA is making Apple’s products worse for you.

Personally, I don't care so much for those particular new features. I'm much more worried about things that never make the headlines like bugs in Mail.app, wonky hardware drivers or temperamental Bluetooth stacks.

My point is, instead of going public with extremely vague statement, they could just make their decision based on consultations with the EC and then communicate the results to the public. If that means that some features won't ever be released in the EU, Apple should just communicate this clearly.

 

[Samplasion]

I don't get why they couldn't just use the bullsh*t privacy excuse for iPhone Mirroring now that it would make sense to do it... wait, does it bring in revenue to Apple? 😂