Apple Intelligence Features Not Coming to European Union at Launch Due to DMA

[MilaM]

The DMA is about who owns the device, the consumer or the manufacturer, and decided to take the consumer's side.

It is again, about the right of the consumer, and his ability to decide for himself, not to live in a controlled environment, as in communism.

Not really IMHO. The mandate of the EU Commission in this case is to intervene when competition between economic actors is not working. The idea is that with more competition, there will be better outcomes for consumers.

It's true, that they sometimes intervene directly to the benefit of the consumer. Like in the case of EU roaming charges. But it is more an exception I think.

 

[chmania]

Not really IMHO. The mandate of the EU Commission in this case is to intervene when competition between economic actors is not working. The idea is that with more competition, there will be better outcomes for consumers.

It is all about the rights of the consumer. The EU Parliament and the Commissions are there to look after our rights. No company can take away our rights. That's as simple as that.

 

[spazzcat]

The DMA is about who owns the device, the consumer or the manufacturer, and decided to take the consumer's side.

It is again, about the right of the consumer, and his ability to decide for himself, not to live in a controlled environment, as in communism.

Yet you ok with other platforms doing the running the same way Apple does. You are either against all gardens or you're just against Apples.

 

[chmania]

Yet you ok with other platforms doing the running the same way Apple does. You are either against all gardens or you're just against Apples.

I'm OK with the DMA for all platforms. I live in the EU. I have a 15" Intel MBP running Sequoia DB2, an iPhone running iOS 18 DB2, and an iPad Mini, Windows and Linux laptops, Galaxy Tab with DeX. The next buy will be a silicon MacBook, but that will have to wait, for my Intel MBP is still doing very well. And, when the time comes, I'll buy that silicon Mac in the aftermarket -- there are lot of people, who buy Macs and find that they can't/won't use them as they have to go back to Windows -- lot of them around 30% or less cheaper, sometimes unopened. Haven't paid Apple for any device yet. 😊

 

[Beautyspin]

people say play store is better than App Store too. people say a lot of things.


I don't know what your point is.

If nobody can do a better review process (as you say) there cannot be a better store. All stores must be the same. You yourselves made the point and you do not understand what it is? Strange way of arguing.

 

[spazzcat]

Not really IMHO. The mandate of the EU Commission in this case is to intervene when competition between economic actors is not working. The idea is that with more competition, there will be better outcomes for consumers.

It's true, that they sometimes intervene directly to the benefit of the consumer. Like in the case of EU roaming charges. But it is more an exception I think.

Yet markets always move toward a few companies because people like simplicity, not complexity...

 

[surferfb]

The DMA is about who owns the device, the consumer or the manufacturer, and decided to take the consumer's side.

That's not at all what it is about. If that's what it was about, why on earth would Windows, Google Search and Meta be considered gatekeepers? A lot of people think they are pro DMA because of all the App Store stuff. Most people have NO IDEA how far reaching it is. The App Store stuff is one small part of of the DMA. At its core, the DMA is ultimately an attack on the concept of big tech companies being able to vertically integrate to give themselves a competitive advantage. If they want to create a cool new feature, they have to provide others the ability to do the same.

As noted several times on this and other threads, while I realize I am in the minority of MacRumors members here, I think it's a really stupid way to do it, that has already and will continue to make products worse for EU citizens. But ultimately if EU citizens want bureaucrats designing how tech software works, that's their prerogative.

But then EU citizens don't get to be outraged when Apple (or another gatekeeper) doesn't want to release a feature in the EU, whether that's because they want assurances from the EU they're allowed to release the feature, need more time to refine an API before they make it public, they have security/privacy concerns about making an API public, or even because Apple wants the feature as a competitive advantage. That's Apple's right.

It doesn't mean they're being spiteful. In fact, Apple has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders, and they would be negligent to release a feature they thought has a significant chance of running afoul of the DMA when they can be fined 10-20% of global revenue in a market that represents 7-8% of their revenue.

 

[spazzcat]

That's not at all what it is about. If that's what it was about, why on earth would Windows, Google Search and Meta be considered gatekeepers? A lot of people think they are pro DMA because of all the App Store stuff. Most people have NO IDEA how far reaching it is. The App Store stuff is one small part of of the DMA. At its core, the DMA is ultimately an attack on the concept of big tech companies being able to vertically integrate to give themselves a competitive advantage. If they want to create a cool new feature, they have to provide others the ability to do the same.

As noted several times on this and other threads, while I realize I am in the minority of MacRumors members here, I think it's a really stupid way to do it, that has already and will continue to make products worse for EU citizens. But ultimately if EU citizens want bureaucrats designing how tech software works, that's their prerogative.

But then EU citizens don't get to be outraged when Apple (or another gatekeeper) doesn't want to release a feature in the EU, whether that's because they want assurances from the EU they're allowed to release the feature, need more time to refine an API before they make it public, they have security/privacy concerns about making an API public, or even because Apple wants the feature as a competitive advantage. That's Apple's right.

It doesn't mean they're being spiteful. In fact, Apple has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders, and they would be negligent to release a feature they thought has a significant chance of running afoul of the DMA when they can be fined 10-20% of global revenue in a market that represents 7-8% of their revenue.

I don't think you are in the minority there is on the issues with DMA, there are just a few really loud people here who think DMA is the best thing since sliced bread. Once the the negative aspects of it start to hit and normal people realize just how bad this overregulation is and how bad it hurts them there will be more outcry against it.

 

[chmania]

That's not at all what it is about. If that's what it was about, why on earth would Windows, Google Search and Meta be considered gatekeepers? A lot of people think they are pro DMA because of all the App Store stuff. Most people have NO IDEA how far reaching it is. The App Store stuff is one small part of of the DMA. At its core, the DMA is ultimately an attack on the concept of big tech companies being able to vertically integrate to give themselves a competitive advantage. If they want to create a cool new feature, they have to provide others the ability to do the same.

Some people want to be owned by a company, some of us don’t. I vote for the DMA in the EU, I live there.

 

[NT1440]

It is all about the rights of the consumer. The EU Parliament and the Commissions are there to look after our rights. No company can take away our rights. That's as simple as that.

Have fun when they mandate "upload moderation".

 

[chmania]

Have fun when they mandate "upload moderation".

Social Media Content Moderation? Why not? We have to safeguard our children and grandchildren somehow.

 

[surferfb]

Some people want to be owned by a company, some of us don’t. I vote for the DMA in the EU, I live there.

I don't think any of us want to be owned by a company. However, I personally don't think that allowing Apple to design its hardware and operating system the way they want means they own anyone. If people don't like Apple's rules they can switch to Android, like you stated you plan to do when your current phone dies.

For what it's worth, I do sincerely hope I am wrong about the DMA and that it creates the intended benefits without the negatives that I suspect are coming. As someone with very strong ties to Germany (I used to live there, my brother lives there permanently, I speak the language, and I will likely spend significant portions of the year there after I retire) - nothing would make me happier than to have all of you tell me "told you so" in 5 or 10 years!

 

[vantelimus]

Haven't paid Apple for any device yet. 😊

That is a seriously douchey brag for someone who owns so much Apple equipment. It is consistent, though, with your irrational anti-Apple stance.

 

[redheeler]

Considering that one could mirror iPhones for, like, ages using QuickTime, how does the new feature even relate to DMA?

It doesn’t, Apple is just continuing to throw a tantrum over the DMA.

 

[vantelimus]

Social Media Content Moderation? Why not? We have to safeguard our children and grandchildren somehow.

You don’t want Apple to own you (as you hyperbolically and incorrectly characterize Apple’s license agreements). You even invoke the specter of communism in your histrionic arguments. Yet you are happy with nanny-state oversight of your online activities by a government bureaucracy. 🤦

 

[surferfb]

It doesn’t, Apple is just continuing to throw a tantrum over the DMA.

Again. Apple is not throwing a tantrum.

Apple created a never-before-used private API to allow full access to the phone, wirelessly, while the phone is locked. Per the DMA defenders in this thread, the DMA clearly states they can’t do that and not offer access to the API to others if requested. If Apple doesn’t want to give that API out for whatever reason, they’re being perfectly rational in omitting that feature from the EU.

The alternative is risk having to open it up, even though they aren’t ready to/don’t want to, or get fined up to 20% of their global revenue by a block of countries that make up 7-8% of their global revenue.

If you want the EU to have a role in designing Apple’s OS, you don’t get a say in what features they do or don’t offer in the EU. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

 

[breenmask]

If nobody can do a better review process (as you say) there cannot be a better store.

If there was a better way, Apple would implement it. Why wouldn't they implement a better way?

 

[Beautyspin]

If there was a better way, Apple would implement it. Why wouldn't they implement a better way?

Because they do not have to.
The following is an exceprt from the DOJ Complaint.

"Apple itself has less incentive to innovate because it has insulated itself from competition. As Apple’s executives openly acknowledge: “In looking at it with hindsight, I think going forward we need to set a stake in the ground for what features we think are ‘good enough’ for the consumer. I would argue we’re already doing *more* than what would have been good enough. But we find it very hard to regress our product features YOY [year over year].” Existing features “would have been good enough today if we hadn’t introduced [them] already,” and “anything new and especially expensive needs to be rigorously challenged before it’s allowed into the consumer phone.”

 

[breenmask]

Because they do not have to.

they don't have to? then why bother reviewing apps at all? it's good enough to just release apps as developers upload it instead of paying hundreds of people to review apps, right?

no. they would implement a better way because it increases user safety, reduces Genius Bar appointments, and reduces the amount of times "Apple uploaded a malicious app to the store" is blasted in the news which hurts the brand. all of this reduces dollar costs against Apple.

 

[vantelimus]

Because they do not have to.
The following is an exceprt from the DOJ Complaint.

"Apple itself has less incentive to innovate because it has insulated itself from competition. As Apple’s executives openly acknowledge: “In looking at it with hindsight, I think going forward we need to set a stake in the ground for what features we think are ‘good enough’ for the consumer. I would argue we’re already doing *more* than what would have been good enough. But we find it very hard to regress our product features YOY [year over year].” Existing features “would have been good enough today if we hadn’t introduced [them] already,” and “anything new and especially expensive needs to be rigorously challenged before it’s allowed into the consumer phone.”

Apple has less incentive, yet the evidence shows that they do more than is "good enough". So, what is the problem here? Is it that competitors want to be able to take market share by being just good enough, but Apple culture is too slow to change and adopt MVP product development?

 

[AppliedMicro]

Of course I pay with credit cards for things like restaurant and groceries. That doesn’t mean I want to give it out to a random developer I don’t know anything about for a subscription that will persist in perpetuity. I don’t know how hard they’ll make it to cancel the subscription (…)

I much prefer Apple to handle that for me. They’ve earned my trust. But the EU is taking that option away from its citizens.

Easy-peasy cancelling those pesky subscriptions through Apple - just don‘t be surprised if Apple, months later, charges your card anyway? 🤡

That didn’t age well, did it? 😉

 

[chmania]

You don’t want Apple to own you

Isn't that normal?

Yet you are happy with nanny-state oversight of your online activities by a government bureaucracy. 🤦

EU is not a government, but a union of 27 governments, very different sovereign governments. The EU Commissions consist of people, who speak different languages, come from different culture etc. The President of the EU doesn't have authority, jurisdiction over those different sovereign countries. Anyway, the DMA is for us, who live in the EU.

 

[koil]

Again. Apple is not throwing a tantrum.

Apple created a never-before-used private API to allow full access to the phone, wirelessly, while the phone is locked. Per the DMA defenders in this thread, the DMA clearly states they can’t do that and not offer access to the API to others if requested. If Apple doesn’t want to give that API out for whatever reason, they’re being perfectly rational in omitting that feature from the EU.

I don't know what your background is, but private APIs aren't actually private, they are just undocumented. Apps trying to call them light up like a christmas tree in the review process. Apps can be blocked from accessing them from inside the sandbox by leveraging app entitlements, but the entitlement must already exist for it to be callable by Apples own apps. When it comes to iPhone mirroring it's a client/server architecture, and the APIs being called are on the network or over USB, as such there's no concept of public or private APIs there as we generally talk about it, it's just authenticated and authorised vs unauthenticated and/or without authorisation. Likely this system requires some specific JWT claim to be able to unlock remotely, probably generated through iCloud.

What I'm trying to get at is that the only thing that would be missing from this for cross-platform support is a client application on e.g. Windows, and that's not Apples responsibility to build regardless, they just maybe need to be helpful if someone wants to build a Windows/Linux app.

Basically, by launching the feature in iOS 18, they are offering access to the API, no way around it.

 

[chmania]

In fact, Apple has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders, ...

Doesn't every business? But that "fiduciary duty to their shareholders" is not the headache of the consumer.

 

[MilaM]

If you want the EU to have a role in designing Apple’s OS, you don’t get a say in what features they do or don’t offer in the EU. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Competition will take care of this. Apple will want to bring new feature to customers outside the US as quickly as possible, and they will figure out a way to comply, like anyone else. It might take more time to refine the APIs, sure. But on the other hand, the number of markets where similar laws apply, will only rise in the future. Japan's legislation seems to be quite advanced, UK and Switzerland will also follow soon with similar laws.