Apple Introduces New Mac Pro with Nehalem Xeon Processors

[Zoowatch]

Buying the new Mac Pro at least means you have the potential to upgrade the CPUs in 2-3 years time when the prices have dropped in order to get an extra year or two's longevity out of the system.

I thought that when the first 2 generations of Mac Pro were introduced, people were saying that they could upgrade the CPU relatively painlessly (compatible sockets etc.), but so far, I haven't really seen that coming... except for the hard core tech geeks, of course (and risk voiding the warranty).

I wonder if anyone would be able and willing to do a thorough investigation into Apple's pricing strategy... I don't mind things being expensive because of the material, R&D or manufacturing process...

but if they were priced so high simply because Apple have the power to do so (given its many loyal user base)... I am beginning to wonder that it's a bit like that "I am rich" app from the iTunes App Store.

 

[milo]

For fans of the refurb store the real question for me is:

Is the new 2.9 quad equal to the previous 3.2 Octo or not?

They will essentially cost the same so this could decide the purchasing route of many before the refurb stores run out.

That's the million dollar question. Is there any way of knowing yet, particularly real world results?

Although the 8 gig ram limitation is potentially a deal breaker on it's own, that's even a downgrade from the old quad.

Nope, I still don't buy it. ECC memory is a fact of life in the professionnal world and no one that considers a machine using ECC memory is going to price a XPS. They're going for the Precision line, or in HP's case, the xw6600 line. This is the Mac Pro's competition.

So specifically what difference will the user see between a machine that supports ECC, and a machine that is otherwise identical that doesn't?

You might think the Xeon 3500 line is just a rebadged I7 processor, but obviously, vendors and buyers don't.

It's not what I think - other than the ECC, the 3500 and i7 ARE otherwise identical. That is fact, not opinion. If you disagree, please point out what the other differences are between the chips.

You clearly have no idea what a workstation is, nor what it's used for.

So enlighten me. What advantage do I see as a user running an app on the MP quad "workstation" versus a consumer machine with the comparable i7. I keep asking this but getting no answer.

These are workstations:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/e...19-307907-296721-3432827-3432828-3751527.html
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1658157
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_t7400?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Comparing those to the MP quad, you seem to be proving my point, that by that definition the quad is NOT a workstation. 8 gigs ram max versus 128?

I'll agree that the 8 core is arguably a true workstation, but the quad is mostly a consumer machine (and not that impressive of one) at a workstation price.

You're clearly one of the people still bent out of shape about Apple not offering an xMac.

You need to read my posts better, I'm considering a previous gen MP, and I was planning on buying a new MP the second they were announced, at least before I knew it would require either a massive price increase or significant downgrade.

 

[KnightWRX]

Wouldn't that make sense to a lot of prospective users, even at a healthy Apple markup it would be nice. But Apple making sense with certain parts of their customer base doesn't add up.

In their view you either want last years notebook components with a mirror for a screen at a pretty premium as a desktop, or an (arguably) over priced beast of a workstation.

Apple were in the mid-range desktop market at one point. If they left that market behind, there must be a reason. That reason is probably sales. At this point, I really believe that the xMac thing is the wish of a vocal minority.

Either that, or the market has changed between know and the last time apple had a mid-range desktop.

 

[KnightWRX]

So specifically what difference will the user see between a machine that supports ECC, and a machine that is otherwise identical that doesn't?

It's not what I think - other than the ECC, the 3500 and i7 ARE otherwise identical. That is fact, not opinion. If you disagree, please point out what the other differences are between the chips.

So enlighten me. What advantage do I see as a user running an app on the MP quad "workstation" versus a consumer machine with the comparable i7. I keep asking this but getting no answer.

A user will see no difference from a machine running ECC and one not running ECC. Would you see a difference between writing to a RAID 1 array or straight to the disk in real world usage ? Nope, you wouldn't either. Nor would you notice the dual power supplies in the system.

A professionnal running a long render or other time intensive and memory intensive application though doesn't want to see a "difference", he just wants extra assurance that if something does go wrong, he doesn't have to start over. Hence why Error correcting memory is important to him. These people don't care that you can price a 500$ equivalent system on NewEgg, they want reliability and failsafes in case of failures.

Also, professionnal grade hardware is garanteed to be in stock for replacements for a very, very, very long time. We have hardware here that is over 11 years old, and we can still get the parts for them. I don't mean newer parts, I mean the same part we got new out of the box in 1999.

This "value" is not in the actual specs of the machine, hence why they look overpriced to consumers who don't care about this professionnal level of value, just like they don't care about mirrored drives or power failures.

 

[myca]

Apple were in the mid-range desktop market at one point. If they left that market behind, there must be a reason. That reason is probably sales. At this point, I really believe that the xMac thing is the wish of a vocal minority.

Either that, or the market has changed between know and the last time apple had a mid-range desktop.

It a mute point at the moment though as far as I'm concerned, there may be space in their line up for a mid range tower, but there's no space in their pricing structure at the moment.

-----------------------
No matter what happens with the mac, as long as the iPhone farts people will be happy

 

[polaris20]

So enlighten me. What advantage do I see as a user running an app on the MP quad "workstation" versus a consumer machine with the comparable i7. I keep asking this but getting no answer.

ECC memory is important for professional users. Quality of the machine compared to a POS Dell gamer system is important. Overall system reliability is important.

Comparing those to the MP quad, you seem to be proving my point, that by that definition the quad is NOT a workstation. 8 gigs ram max versus 128?

You seem pretty bent on the quad core, so here you go.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/e...19-307907-296721-3432821-3432822-3651757.html

Granted that can take two procs and more RAM, so I guess in that case the HP is a better deal......if you don't mind running Windows or Linux.

I'll agree that the 8 core is arguably a true workstation, but the quad is mostly a consumer machine (and not that impressive of one) at a workstation price.

I'll continue to disagree with you, having used other brands' workstations and business class desktops. When you can show that you've got experience with more than just Apple in the professional space, I'll start taking your opinion more seriously.

You need to read my posts better, I'm considering a previous gen MP, and I was planning on buying a new MP the second they were announced, at least before I knew it would require either a massive price increase or significant downgrade.

I read your posts just fine, and it's clear you have no idea what workstations are used for in the professional field.

 

[diamond.g]

A user will see no difference from a machine running ECC and one not running ECC. Would you see a difference between writing to a RAID 1 array or straight to the disk in real world usage ? Nope, you wouldn't either. Nor would you notice the dual power supplies in the system.

A professionnal running a long render or other time intensive and memory intensive application though doesn't want to see a "difference", he just wants extra assurance that if something does go wrong, he doesn't have to start over. Hence why Error correcting memory is important to him. These people don't care that you can price a 500$ equivalent system on NewEgg, they want reliability and failsafes in case of failures.

Also, professionnal grade hardware is garanteed to be in stock for replacements for a very, very, very long time. We have hardware here that is over 11 years old, and we can still get the parts for them. I don't mean newer parts, I mean the same part we got new out of the box in 1999.

This "value" is not in the actual specs of the machine, hence why they look overpriced to consumers who don't care about this professionnal level of value, just like they don't care about mirrored drives or power failures.

Since when does the Mac Pro come with redundant PSU?

 

[PeterQVenkman]

I would consider the lack of blu ray a major thing for film makers. On a well equipped mac you can edit, color correct, do the visual FX, do the soundtrack. Do everything that a film maker needs, then you can create a nice DVD with snazzy menus et-al. But if you want to author a HD blu ray disc you have no choice but to boot into windows.

Here here!

That's why I have an Apple laptop (prev gen bought t a huge discount) and a Windows workstation.

I would have an Apple workstation if it met my needs, and was actually competitive on price.

I'll pass on Apple's latest offerings. I'll wait for other vendors to get the dual quad motherboards, and I'll get the same computer at half the price. I wish this wasn't the case.

Apple gives many of us no real choice. If you can afford it, kudos to those who can. Buy me a top of the line while you're at it.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

You seem pretty bent on the quad core, so here you go.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/e...19-307907-296721-3432821-3432822-3651757.html

Granted that can take two procs and more RAM, so I guess in that case the HP is a better deal......if you don't mind running Windows or Linux.

And it comes with a Quadro. It really helps when running workstation class apps like Maya.

 

[iMacmatician]

Mac event on the 24th? I don't realistically think it'll happen, but if it did it would clear up the strategic issue- keeping iMacs C2Duo and bumping Pros up to Nehalem leaves a quad-core sized mid market gap for an xMac, and what else is there to announce on the 24th? (if indeed the 24th actually happens)

No, I know it'll never happen, but one can dream, can't one?

Probably if there is such an event it will be about software. At least they'll have new Macs to demo the software on.

 

[Mintin8]

It a mute point at the moment though as far as I'm concerned, there may be space in their line up for a mid range tower, but there's no space in their pricing structure at the moment.

-----------------------
No matter what happens with the mac, as long as the iPhone farts people will be happy

My thoughts exactly!

 

[diamond.g]

You seem pretty bent on the quad core, so here you go.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/e...19-307907-296721-3432821-3432822-3651757.html

Granted that can take two procs and more RAM, so I guess in that case the HP is a better deal......if you don't mind running Windows or Linux.

It comes with a 3 year warranty, lol.

 

[KnightWRX]

Since when does the Mac Pro come with redundant PSU?

It doesn't, I'm just giving you exemples of high end hardware failsafes that make no apparent difference to the user.

 

[diamond.g]

It doesn't, I'm just giving you exemples of high end hardware failsafes that make no apparent difference to the user.

RAM mirroring would be noticable, although I don't think any Mac offers that.

 

[polaris20]

And it comes with a Quadro. It really helps when running workstation class apps like Maya.

Yes, I agree. The lack of a Quadro is definitely puzzling, though for our workflow it won't matter.

 

[echoechoecho]

As a semi pro musician and producer, I had hoped to be getting a Mac Pro in the next few months to take over as my main DAW from a seriously overworked MBP. I shall be scouring the Refurb store instead I feel. Ah well.

I should add that I am a fully professional publisher, but in no way can I justify the expensive of a Mac Pro for that business alone (despite the need for a little bit of grunt for InDesign and Photoshop). It's a shame that Apple seems to have moved away from this market

 

[123]

ECC memory is important for professional users.

No, it's important for probably about 5% of them. And to some of them, it would also be important to have registered memory or other server grade stuff like redundant power supplies you mentioned.

The rest doesn't need ECC.

 

[tekboi]

I have a quick question for all you mac geeks out there.

Can I hook up mac's new $899 LED display to the "new" mac pro?


And why does it seem that they went UP in price, but the specs are worst???


Am I misreading something?? Is that a misprint???? Maybe i'm missing something altogether because that can't be right.


And still.... no BLU-RAY device?? Uhhh

 

[bjeadeh]

Plenty of guts, but not a beauty skin deep.

I don't get it. Who in the heck needs 4 firewire 800 ports? Lost time is lost money, I'm looking for faster than real time HD video transfer into the computer. I don't want to produce a video with my I sight camera. No esata, no HDMI, no FW 400, no blue-ray burner, no space saving features, not enough RAM, not enough clock speed, no cash left in your pocket, shall I go on? If that's not bad enough, the toslink probably doesn't even handle surround. And I am so sick of needing adapters for displays, and external gear. The mini video display port? Anybody remember the ADC connector?

Hyper-threading? Really? Everybody knows hyper-threading isn't supported by any software manufacturer, and they recommend against using it. When is Apple going to deliver a quality desktop?

 

[takao]

If that's not bad enough, the toslink probably doesn't even handle surround.

wait ... WHAT ? i know my mini doesn't handle surround since it's only has a normal 3,5 port with no optical .. but with optical you sure have to have surround .. what's the point elsewise

 

[sum1]

Confused!!

I have been holding off on the purchase of the new MP hoping they will boost the speed and somewhat drop the price.

How is the Quad core 2.66 compare to the older model with 2 quad core 2.8 GHz? in terms of performance.

Could anybody help please?
Thanks

 

[sejanus]

I'm a bit puzzled by it all to be honest.

I'm a photographer & have the very first macpro (the dual x dual 2.66ghz) with 16gb ram and 2 x 30" ACD's & a 8800gt.

Going to the new macpro was a no brainer for me but my main app I use is Aperture and apples benchmarks show only a modest increase here. Aperture is mostly GPU related so I was hoping Apple were finally going to join the rest of the world and put some *serious* video abilities into it (i.e. SLI) but as we all know they see fit not to.

Pricing wise in Aussie dollars it's big buckos for the 8 core version especially once you step up the cpu's to the higher mhz version.

Just not sure that after spending something silly like 6-10k (aussie dollars) I'm going to see that much of an improvement for what I use it for.

So in the meantime holding off until places like anandtech get their hands on some machines.

 

[myca]

I have been holding off on the purchase of the new MP hoping they will boost the speed and somewhat drop the price.

How is the Quad core 2.66 compare to the older model with 2 quad core 2.8 GHz? in terms of performance.

Could anybody help please?
Thanks

I think a lot of people are waiting for this info, the 2.8 octo was cheaper than the quad core 2.66 in the UK at least, so for the extra price it really has to out perform the 2.8 octo in real world examples, and with the 2.8 being over a year old it has to out perform it by some margin, otherwise it'll seem to some, me included, like a bit of a rip off.

-----------------------
No matter what happens with the mac, as long as the iPhone farts people will be happy

 

[Umbongo]

I have a quick question for all you mac geeks out there.

Can I hook up mac's new $899 LED display to the "new" mac pro?

Yes.

And why does it seem that they went UP in price, but the specs are worst???

It is a combination. The prices did go up, but the new processors are faster at lower clock speeds.

 

[scaley]

Question for the techies,
With the RAID card, I cannot run windows under Bootcamp or Parallels or otherwise. Is this correct and if so, are there 3rd party raid cards that I could buy for the Pro that would be windows friendly? I am stuck with one piece of software that forces me to put windows on every one of my macs.

-Matty

I haven't verified this for myself yet but from what I can tell the Caldigit raid card looks like it has this support and it is something I'm likely to pick up shortly myself. You can get it with the bootcamp cable and battery backup for less than the Mac Pro Raid card and it was receiving far better reviews than the old Mac Pro raid card. I don't know how this will change with the updated raid card but you can save yourself a few hundred bucks and run 6 drives internal with the caldigit card (assuming you have 2 in the 2nd optical bay connected to the onboard controllers). The only downside I'm aware of is that the external connectors are only compatible with CalDigit drive towers but there are rumors this may change in a firmware update (not an issue if you are keeping raid to internal drives though).

Here is the info: http://www.CalDigit.com/RAIDCard/

EDIT: You could also check out the Areca ARC-1680ix-12 if cost is less of an issue:
http://www.areca.us/products/pcietosas1680series.htm
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/areca/1680ix12/

or the RocketRAID 4322
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/rr4322.htm