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Exactly. It's up to the phone to stop charging. Blaming the cable because it continued to deliver electricity is ridiculous.

That's like blaming the sink for continuing to supply water and overflowing your glass, when you should have turned the knobs when you were done.

What does the water faucet know???

A cable is just wires providing a supply. It's up to the device / phone to say I've had enough, and I'm closing the supply gate for now.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I'd guess it's not quite that simple. What if the phone told the charger its had enough and ****** electronics in the power supply didn't stop producing power? I'd guess there is still a circuit being made in the phone from being plugged in if a power supply were to be failing. Maybe someone with electrical experience could chime in.

I also tend to notice analogies are very seldom accurate when talking about a variety of things but that's just me personally.
 
Yeah, because that's... possible...
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I see your point, but what kind of response to that request would you expect from her? Most consumers don't have any clue what kinds of independent testing labs would be able to investigate something like this, if they're even aware such a thing exists.

Well none. Because of the angle of the camera and the device on the sink lip, I don't really see the smoke clearly arising from the phone. She seems very fashionable. Heck, look at how nice her nails are. My money says she spilled nailpolish remover on the device and didn't clean it well enough. Then when the device got a little warm the acetone vapor hit its flash point and started to burn. I don't know the path, but my assuption is that if there was still liquid acetone between the case and the phone the vapor would probably light near the side tilted up. The heat would exapand the back case explaining why the seal is breaking while the melting case would generate a lot of smoke as it burned.

I'm not really sure how to explain the yellowing arround the Apple logo. Looking at iFixit suggests that acetone might have entered into the device there, but I'm not convinced from their images.
 
What "crap" are you talking about?

Spikes, sags, interference, noise.

When Apple warned against using third party power supplies, I'm sure it wasn't because they wanted to sell more power supplies, it was probably because of the stress from the 'crap' the fake ones were putting out that was damaging their products.

As pointed out in this video, there is filtering going on in the real power supply, and nothing in the fake one.

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I'm not an electrical engineer but I'd guess it's not quite that simple. What if the phone told the charger its had enough and ****** electronics in the power supply didn't stop producing power? I'd guess there is still a circuit being made in the phone from being plugged in if a power supply were to be failing. Maybe someone with electrical experience could chime in.

I also tend to notice analogies are very seldom accurate when talking about a variety of things but that's just me personally.

In a standard PC power supply, there are various output levels provided, and it's not unheard of for 'leaks' between the 'rails'. A standard feature of good quality power supplies is spacing of the components in the various rails, and overuse of insulation, to help make sure that doesn't happen. It's possible that if the gap is bridged, by bad solder joints, or a spike in power, for the rails to arc and cause extensive damage to the internals. It's also possible to have one rail go out, and have a huge spike go though the other rails. That is why we always used name brand power supplies in everything we did, and in all repairs. But I saw many really disgustingly cheap power supplies that failed causing a lot of expensive damage.
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No I never said that. I said the worst that is going to happen is that the crap cable or converter is going to start on fire. The phone is built to protect itself regardless of the cable or converter used, obviously within reason. A few volts extra here and there shouldn't matter. Now if you're converting voltage 1:1 then yeah, there's probably going to be an issue. And what do you mean by "charger feeding the device crap that shouldn't be there" is? What "crap" are you talking about?

There is, apparently, the 'Apple way', and the 'get 'r done' brute force way. The Apple charger has filtering, and a more robust transformer, and spec'ed components, fakes don't. Wouldn't that upgrade the power supply as a 'control mechanism'? It is 'controlling' the power. The power supply works in concert with the iDevice power circuits, wouldn't you say? Any deviation would be something that the designers wouldn't necessarily expect, and might not take into account. They can't plan for everything that might happen.

And while that cheap charger is self-destructing, what is it doing to the output quality.
 
Spikes, sags, interference, noise.

When Apple warned against using third party power supplies, I'm sure it wasn't because they wanted to sell more power supplies, it was probably because of the stress from the 'crap' the fake ones were putting out that was damaging their products.

As pointed out in this video, there is filtering going on in the real power supply, and nothing in the fake one.

[doublepost=1488124632][/doublepost]

In a standard PC power supply, there are various output levels provided, and it's not unheard of for 'leaks' between the 'rails'. A standard feature of good quality power supplies is spacing of the components in the various rails, and overuse of insulation, to help make sure that doesn't happen. It's possible that if the gap is bridged, by bad solder joints, or a spike in power, for the rails to arc and cause extensive damage to the internals. It's also possible to have one rail go out, and have a huge spike go though the other rails. That is why we always used name brand power supplies in everything we did, and in all repairs. But I saw many really disgustingly cheap power supplies that failed causing a lot of expensive damage.
[doublepost=1488126411][/doublepost]

There is, apparently, the 'Apple way', and the 'get 'r done' brute force way. The Apple charger has filtering, and a more robust transformer, and spec'ed components, fakes don't. Wouldn't that upgrade the power supply as a 'control mechanism'? It is 'controlling' the power. The power supply works in concert with the iDevice power circuits, wouldn't you say? Any deviation would be something that the designers wouldn't necessarily expect, and might not take into account. They can't plan for everything that might happen.

And while that cheap charger is self-destructing, what is it doing to the output quality.


Well said. Thanks for explaining in more detail. I don't know all that much when it comes to electrical but I do know that how clean the converted power is from the power supply matters just as much as anything else. This is also why I only use Apple chargers. It's silly not to just to save $15 or something. Also, they give you one with every phone that is purchased. Anything else is as you've stated not how they have intended it to work. It's not work the risk of damage to devices or a fire for the small extra price of an OEM charger. This would go for any manufacturer of any device.

There is also the small chance with this story that the phone battery just blew up. It could happen given how little problems they have. A couple phones blowing up here and there with the millions they sell is pretty great rate of failure on its own if you ask me.
 
Possible of course, but I call BS

I won't go so far as to say BS but there does seem to be some details missing. Like what exactly was done to it when it was at the store (was it opened or did they just plug it in for say 10 minutes and it turned on). if they didn't open it they might not know that it has a 3rd party battery or even a third party screen. how is she charging it. does she use the official charger, does she sleep with it under her pillow and she could have rolled over it. plus the video only shows after it 'exploded' so for all we know, it was dropped or even stepped on or who knows what.

Remember the iphone in Australia that caught fire on a plane. Turns out that they had had the battery replaced by a non Apple shop and the tech missed that a screw fell under battery and punctured the casing. Maybe this girl cracked her display and went to an outside shop cause she didn't have Apple Care and something similar happened
 
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Respectfully, but that is BS. You know? It might surprise you, Apple doesn't use the best battery tech, just like the displays Apple uses aren't the best tech. Apple uses cheap old tech. The newest battery tech available today can actually withstand punctures and prevent explosions. That's the technology that Apple should be using especially charging customers insane premiums on devices.
Oh, please great and wise medium, enlighten me. And don't tell me about the NOVA episode you watched at the beginning of the month about the search for super batteries, because news flash, that technology is still very much in development and isn't available for mass production in any form yet. Got anything better?
 
But you are TheRealTVGuy! :eek:
Exactly! Maybe it's just me, but if something's on fire... put it out! If there is a tornado approaching... take cover! So often we see any geek with a cell phone putting themselves in danger. And worse, making inane comments during the process.

/rant.
 
Oh, please great and wise medium, enlighten me. And don't tell me about the NOVA episode you watched at the beginning of the month about the search for super batteries, because news flash, that technology is still very much in development and isn't available for mass production in any form yet. Got anything better?
You would better serve yourself by being less snarky and presumptuous when starting a conversation.

"Because news flash", cast your mind back to 2007. There are many other technologies since then readily available. Safe battery technology is here and now. Companies like Apple need to adopt safe battery technology now instead of putting customers at risk.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/407941/lithium-ion-batteries-that-dont-explode/
 
You would better serve yourself by being less snarky and presumptuous when starting a conversation.

"Because news flash", cast your mind back to 2007. There are many other technologies since then readily available. Safe battery technology is here and now. Companies like Apple need to adopt safe battery technology now instead of putting customers at risk.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/407941/lithium-ion-batteries-that-dont-explode/
And these technologies are widely available at about the same cost and can be used as basically direct equivalents of what's in use today? What companies are using them on a wide scale?
 
You would better serve yourself by being less snarky and presumptuous when starting a conversation.

"Because news flash", cast your mind back to 2007. There are many other technologies since then readily available. Safe battery technology is here and now. Companies like Apple need to adopt safe battery technology now instead of putting customers at risk.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/407941/lithium-ion-batteries-that-dont-explode/
I read the article. It describes technology that was, again, in research stages in 2007. You know what else was in research stages in 2007? Liquid-cell lithium-ion batteries with the same energy density as solid-cell. "It'll revolutionize electric cars" they told us. Unfortunately that research never panned out. I have found no evidence that the research discussed in this article faired any better.

Can you provide a link to some revolutionary (or even basic incremental) battery technology Apple isn't using that's actually in the wild? I'll keep looking, but thus far I haven't found anything to suggest that there is a single safety or efficiency related technology that's in a production-ready state that isn't being used by either Apple or Samsung.
 
I read the article. It describes technology that was, again, in research stages in 2007. You know what else was in research stages in 2007? Liquid-cell lithium-ion batteries with the same energy density as solid-cell. "It'll revolutionize electric cars" they told us. Unfortunately that research never panned out. I have found no evidence that the research discussed in this article faired any better.

Can you provide a link to some revolutionary (or even basic incremental) battery technology Apple isn't using that's actually in the wild? I'll keep looking, but thus far I haven't found anything to suggest that there is a single safety or efficiency related technology that's in a production-ready state that isn't being used by either Apple or Samsung.
Solid state li-ion batteries based on garnet-type fast li+ conductors, unlike conventional ones, consist entirely of solid chemical compounds and are non-flammable.

Apple uses rubbish batteries.

https://www.ethz.ch/en/news-and-eve...08/all-solid-state-lithium-ion-batteries.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160720105038.htm

Ten years on, little change in the industry.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/406334/safer-lithium-ion-batteries/
 
Solid state li-ion batteries based on garnet-type fast li+ conductors, unlike conventional ones, consist entirely of solid chemical compounds and are non-flammable.

Apple uses rubbish batteries.

https://www.ethz.ch/en/news-and-eve...08/all-solid-state-lithium-ion-batteries.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160720105038.htm

Ten years on, little change in the industry.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/406334/safer-lithium-ion-batteries/
So basically this "new" technology isn't really used in the industry and on a mass scale so far and Apple is basically using what is the standard and is available in a mass scale in the industry.
 
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So basically this "new" technology isn't really used in the industry and on a mass scale so far and Apple is basically using what is the standard and is available in a mass scale in the industry.
Right on, I agree with ya, yeh, they're using sh#t, Apple is not forward thinking in any respect.
 
Solid state li-ion batteries based on garnet-type fast li+ conductors, unlike conventional ones, consist entirely of solid chemical compounds and are non-flammable.

Apple uses rubbish batteries.

https://www.ethz.ch/en/news-and-eve...08/all-solid-state-lithium-ion-batteries.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160720105038.htm

Ten years on, little change in the industry.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/406334/safer-lithium-ion-batteries/
Okay, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Any article that references a technology that is still in a research phase automatically doesn't count. Those technologies are not available for companies like Apple and Samsung to actually use. They're still experimental, and as you said, the fact that ten years on the industry hasn't moved much means there might just be more to making a product work once in a lab versus making it work every time in millions of cell phones.

Granted, that stuff looks promising. We might see that technology reach a scalability appropriate for consumer devices within the next five years. But they absolutely do not in any way apply to batteries in Apple and Samsung's smartphones today.
 
Okay, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Any article that references a technology that is still in a research phase automatically doesn't count. Those technologies are not available for companies like Apple and Samsung to actually use. They're still experimental, and as you said, the fact that ten years on the industry hasn't moved much means there might just be more to making a product work once in a lab versus making it work every time in millions of cell phones.

Granted, that stuff looks promising. We might see that technology reach a scalability appropriate for consumer devices within the next five years. But they absolutely do not in any way apply to batteries in Apple and Samsung's smartphones today.
The 3.5" floppy disk was not available for use, but at the time, Apple worked with the manufacturers and made that technology available in their Macs. Likewise Apple turned to unused microdrive hard drives for their original iPods bringing them to market.
These battery technologies are ready for use. Apple needs to implement them immediately. Not implementing them is a disgrace.

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They should definitely be using all that magical unobtainum.
As a side note, I sent you a direct message recently, would you mind reading it and replying please?
 
Not to take away from your battery comments, but on the other points...

The 3.5" floppy disk was not available for use, but at the time, Apple worked with the manufacturers and made that technology available in their Macs.
The 3.5" floppy disk was already available, having been standardized on in 1982 by a consortium of disk makers. That's no doubt why Apple chose it: they knew there'd be a steady supply in the future.

Likewise Apple turned to unused microdrive hard drives for their original iPods bringing them to market.
Apple wasn't the first to use a microdrive on an MP3 player.

They were also becoming popular on PDAs back then. Heck, at least a year before the iPod came out with its 1.8" hard drive, I was using a Casio Cassiopeia Pocket PC with a 1" IBM Microdrive in its CF2 socket.
 
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The 3.5" floppy disk was not available for use, but at the time, Apple worked with the manufacturers and made that technology available in their Macs. Likewise Apple turned to unused microdrive hard drives for their original iPods bringing them to market.
These battery technologies are ready for use. Apple needs to implement them immediately. Not implementing them is a disgrace.
You have not provided and I have been unable to find evidence of any currently production-ready battery technologies that are an improvement on the li-ion cells used by both Samsung and Apple (and every other small device manufacturer on earth). All you have are your assertions and an insistence that anything that has worked once in a lab is instantly ready for large scale mass production.
 
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You have not provided and I have been unable to find evidence of any currently production-ready battery technologies that are an improvement on the li-ion cells used by both Samsung and Apple (and every other small device manufacturer on earth). All you have are your assertions and an insistence that anything that has worked once in a lab is instantly ready for large scale mass production.
Fact is new technology is here right now. You refuse to acknowledge it, that's your prerogative. Truth hurts sometimes especially when it disrupts the status quo.
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Not to take away from your battery comments, but on the other points...


The 3.5" floppy disk was already available, having been standardized on in 1982 by a consortium of disk makers. That's no doubt why Apple chose it: they knew there'd be a steady supply in the future.


Apple wasn't the first to use a microdrive on an MP3 player.

They were also becoming popular on PDAs back then. Heck, at least a year before the iPod came out with its 1.8" hard drive, I was using a Casio Cassiopeia Pocket PC with a 1" IBM Microdrive in its CF2 socket.
Thanks for the history and correction.
 
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Fact is new technology is here right now. You refuse to acknowledge it, that's your prerogative. Truth hurts sometimes especially when it disrupts the status quo.
[doublepost=1489436120][/doublepost]
Thanks for the history and correction.
So, where is that technology? Who is mass producing it and who is using it?
 
Fact is new technology is here right now. You refuse to acknowledge it, that's your prerogative. Truth hurts sometimes especially when it disrupts the status quo.
I cannot sigh deeply enough for this. You have produced no evidence of a single battery technology that is available for production that Apple or Samsung aren't using. You have also demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of how research works. By your logic, all cars should be built from carbon nanotubes and any manufacturer not using them is a disgrace. Your responses amounts to nothing more than smoke. You are mistaken. Good day.
 
Hey cd m. Are you going to reply to my direct message? Did you receive it?
The safer battery technology is here ready for Apple to apply it. Just like the form fitting custom "terraced" batteries in 2015 macbook.
Apple ain't stupid. Apple uses old battery technology because it's cheap (whist conversely being nasty). Apple aren't using the safe battery technology because 1) they don't give a care about customer safety (look at their adaptor incidents) and 2) Apple care about profits more than safety.

So, where is that technology? Who is mass producing it and who is using it?
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I cannot sigh deeply enough for this. You have produced no evidence of a single battery technology that is available for production that Apple or Samsung aren't using. You have also demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of how research works. By your logic, all cars should be built from carbon nanotubes and any manufacturer not using them is a disgrace. Your responses amounts to nothing more than smoke. You are mistaken. Good day.
Reread those links I provided please. Safer battery tech way back in 2007. I understand exactly how research works, just as much as I understand motivations not to embrace and develop technologies that are available when shareholders are involved.
 
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