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Apple Investigating Report of Forced Student Labor at Chinese Factory
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You might want an immediate resolution to this but it cannot be resolved quickly. It took decades for our country to export expert manufacturing to China and rely on them to the degree we do today. It will take decades to train, educate and construct the infrastructure needed to begin our own manufacturing again, and that assumes companies even want to take that financial hit.
Much of Apple's product production could be automated thereby eliminating a lot of labor, but how would that help China's growing economy? People need to work, prosper & spend their equity to have an active and growing economy. I'm confident China's PRC will more vigorously enforce labor conditions as China's economy strengthens over the next 25 years.
I find China's embrace of capitalism a fascinating mirror of the United States industrial revolution. China has embarked on an "industrial revolution" like non-other. I have no doubt that China will equal, and perhaps surpass, the U.S. economically within 50 years.
I find China's embrace of capitalism a fascinating mirror of the United States industrial revolution. China has embarked on an "industrial revolution" like non-other. I have no doubt that China will equal, and perhaps surpass, the U.S. economically within 50 years.
The world doesn’t have enough resources for that. China will get as close as they can before they begin to run out.
I used to work at the restaurant OSHA scheduled their audit, days before the showed up I started seeing worker starts wearing hair net. Now that I work at the factory whoever come visit or audit everything becomes nice and clean and everything in order. Not sure how this works considering the factory is in China where there's no such law against it. Then Apple make appointments observed the Chinese which almost all look the same and young looking. Ask questions somebody interprets get the answer back in English from the interpreter that works for the factory. Yup no problem here this factory is doing just fine, tell your people to hurry up because holiday is coming in the first world country.
What do we expect from a totalitarian regime? In socialism the collective is everything, and the individual is nothing. In socialism the end justifies the means. Power reigns over truth, beauty and goodness.
Just curious, how does making a small fraction of iPhones domestically address any current problem? Assuming it was even possible to hire enough people to do the job, how would it impact employment conditions in China? I'm serious, I just don't see how it would make any difference unless enough jobs were moved to have an impact on the Chinese companies.
Developing US infrastructure to occasionally manufacture a small fraction of phones to handle constraints is just silly and makes no sense logistically, and, is a poor use of capital. Hon Hai handles situations like that superbly, being able to turn on a dime, without Apple having to suffer the cost of unused capacity and resources when not needed.
That Apple has a lot of retail stores is already accounted for as a portion of the price of their products.
I think this is what happens when Apple under pays their manufacturers. When manufacturers under pay it is because the person placing the order underpaid. It reminds me of when a person says I want to buy 100,000 USB cables to a manufacturer and tells them that they will not pay over $1.50 per cable. Manufacturer either loses order or starts cutting cost in order to keep order and customer. Employees and materials used in item take a hit after. I have been dealing with manufacturers now for over 20 years and have a pretty good idea of how costs go and how things are run.
It has to start somewhere. With your line of thinking, the status quo will never change.
Foxconn is missing the point with students...why stop there...Children in hospitals are literally just lying around all day lazy. They could be making my watch and earning some few cents for their cafeteria food so they aren't a drain on society. Further, Foxconn could save money by no longer needing to buy suicide nets...sick children are too non-ambulatory to leap off the roof of the building.
Absolutely correct, Apple uses it's vast scale as a weapon to ensure the very lowest production costs, so it can maintain it's own exorbitant margins. This leaves the producers with very little wiggle room and less than perfectly policed system. Add the pressure that these companies come under when such disclosure's rise to the surface as Apple most certainly does not want it's reputation tarnished in any shape or form.
Apple's stance is very clear take it or leave it and Apple sets the price...
Q-6
With respect to lines of "thinking"...You have no reasoned contribution of your own and are not able to rebut my points.
Not surprised.
The myth of the American ability to replace the manufacturing capabilities of China is not going to become fact by sure force of will. There simply is not enough skilled labour in the U.S. regardless of how much money is being offered to replace Chinese manufacturing. It is clearly not an option, but not for the reason you and others on this forum seem to believe.
I was just in China and Hong Kong earlier this month. I have a few friends in the manufacturing industry which are part of the Apple supply chain in manufacturing. Apple's prices for components are not very high. In fact it is very difficult for manufacturers to profit from order but they also want the orders in order to be able to get other orders to tell other companies that they manufacture for Apple. The orders they will profit from are not the Apple ones but rather the other ones. This is not true for all cases but for many it is. Which manufacturer does not want a portfolio with an OEM manufacturer for Apple in it..? When Apple under pays them the employees suffer as they too get under paid.
Students are lured into this. Those majoring in electronics or engineering careers are offered to work for Apple as internships for college credit. Who does not want credit on their application that they did not work for Apple in China if they are from China or Hong Kong...? The students see this as the better option then what a family member back home maybe doing at a restaurant cleaning dishes or serving tables from dishes coming out of the basement in Hong Kong. What they are unaware of at the time is Apple deadlines to put together a few million iWatches.
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Apple is such a modest company when citing it’s doing “everything it can” in prevention
This reminds me of the tipping etiquette we have in America lol..
In the US many Americans tell you that you have to tip those who serve you well and the argument there goes that the waiters/waitresses are underpaid by their employer so you there for must fork out 15-22% of the tab to the person serving you. Should Apple tip the students working so hard for Apple and Apple’s customers to meet deadlines set by Apple for delivery times? Who is responsible for the employee salaries? The customer or the employer?
I'm asking why it's relevant as it's most certainly clear that we both own Apple products since we discuss this on an Apple related message board.
Since I'm not holding Apple to a higher standard than Nike, nor I hold any other brand which is of mass use and demand with similar production strategies, the double standard of ethical production and consumerism is necessary for developing a healthy and fair global working environment.
Using these products responsibly is the very start of this double standard, assuring a lower demand hence lower production pressure for these factories.
And since we got off an interesting tangent earlier, I personally strive to get the most out of the products I purchase (be it Nike or Apple) and not jump on the "my iPhone [X] is ancient", when it's not.
I guess they should try unannounced audits, if they're serious about it. Or something that's not confined to a short period of time. They felt it necessary to audit the factory three times in four months (and "found no student interns working on apple products at the time") and then stopped for the next four months ? why did they audit them that much in the first place ?
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There are currently two scandals brewing that are big enough to lead to Apple’s downfall:
- their obvious acceptance of underage slave labor in Chinese factories, in order to maximize their profit margins. “Urgent investigation” (wink wink) is not enough.
- the compromise of world security by having their products built in the country of their country’s biggest adversary, thereby allowing surveillance chips to be secretly installed in their products, once again in order to maximize their profits.
It’s just a matter of time.
- their obvious acceptance of underage slave labor in Chinese factories, in order to maximize their profit margins. “Urgent investigation” (wink wink) is not enough.
- the compromise of world security by having their products built in the country of their country’s biggest adversary, thereby allowing surveillance chips to be secretly installed in their products, once again in order to maximize their profits.
It’s just a matter of time.
It's not my line of work, equally I've lived in China for over 15 years as an expat, lot of time in Shenzhen so familiar with such antics. I do know some with direct interaction, few kind words. Apple is best described as the "School Yard Bully" pricing changes and ultimatums issued, as said "it's take it, or leave it". IMHO Apple simply abuses it's vast economy of scale, knowingly so.
Apple's public face and private face are undoubtedly very different, similar to the majority of major corporations, nor can I go much further with that tangent. What's paramount for Apple is to protect it's public image, as after all, that's mostly what it's selling these days...
I think it's more the hypocrisy that bothers me, beyond the poor & selfish design culture Apple has instituted. Nor do I think the rest are much better, equally they're not pretending to be so. Best described as being "Different my Ass"
those days are sadly long gone Q-6
It's not my line of work, equally I've lived in China for over 15 years as an expat, lot of time in Shenzhen so familiar with such antics. I do know some with direct interaction, few kind words. Apple is best described as the "School Yard Bully" pricing changes and ultimatums issued, as said "it's take it, or leave it". IMHO Apple simply abuses it's vast economy of scale, knowingly so.
Apple's public face and private face are undoubtedly very different, similar to the majority of major corporations, nor can I go much further with that tangent. What's paramount for Apple is to protect it's public image, as after all, that's mostly what it's selling these days...
I think it's more the hypocrisy that bothers me, beyond the poor & selfish design culture Apple has instituted. Nor do I think the rest are much better, equally they're not pretending to be so. Best described as being "Different my Ass"
Q-6
Each side has a good side and bad side. Apple’s good side is undoubtedly good but the bad side of it also exists. Most retail consumers usually don’t see this. Sort of like a manufacturer owner who goes home to a great bathroom and food on the table where the family says the father/husband is the best man and best provider around. On the other hand for some employees at work for him in his factory may not think so as their bathrooms are not some of the best around and food is also not some of the best around. At home wife and kids do very little as house Maide does everything while at the factory employees have to do everything themselves.
At home the toilets are made by Toto and at the factory there is a hole in the ground for employees with a bucket to fill for the flush.
I visited quite a few factories this month in China so I know both sides of the story.