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Apple involved in Next Gen PC to HDTV Connectivity

Joep said:
Does that mean that my brand new 30 inch Cinema display will be uncapable of displaying the HD content I bought it for?
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No. It's a DVI display and accepts a DVI data stream, it knows of nothing else. This new standard is supposed to "support DVI", so just like DVI connector is able to support analog VGA, the new standard connector should be able to stream DVI.
 
arn said:
Sounds like higher bandwidth. Remember, Apple's 30" display requires dual-link DVI connectors.
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Definetely. DVI has come to the end of its capabilities, so something new must be introduced. Dual-link gives a little more time for it, but that's not enough for five years even...
 
Joep said:
Does that mean that my brand new 30 inch Cinema display will be uncapable of displaying the HD content I bought it for?
Click to expand...
Thats right, and on any computer/HDTV box using this connector.

Its nice when an industry has absolutely no trust of their customers... I have no hope the U.S government will do anything about this, as evidenced by thier daft handling of the credit card companies.
 
Acoording to Wikipedia (and I checked there because I also suspected it), DVI does support HDPC. Either this piece of news is missing info, or they are creating yet another damn plug to do exactly the same things, which sucks.
 
JFreak said:
This new standard is supposed to "support DVI", so just like DVI connector is able to support analog VGA, the new standard connector should be able to stream DVI.
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The new standard is backward compatible with DVI, but this connector is for also for encrypted streams, and current DVI monitors do not support the encrypted stream, so if the previous poster tries to watch HDTV from a protected source (maybe a Blueray or HD-DVD player) on his 30-incher, it will downgrade the stream to 480p... unless you use the "DVI MAGIC" converter, but then those would probably be outlawed at some point.:eek:
 
JFreak said:
...DVI has come to the end of its capabilities <snip> Dual-link gives a little more time for it, but that's not enough for five years even...
Click to expand...
30" display ought to be enough for anybody.
 
Fukui said:
The new standard is backward compatible with DVI, but this connector is for also for encrypted streams, and current DVI monitors do not support the encrypted stream, so if the previous poster tries to watch HDTV from a protected source (maybe a Blueray or HD-DVD player) on his 30-incher, it will downgrade the stream to 480p... unless you use the "DVI MAGIC" converter, but then those would probably be outlawed at some point.:eek:
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I hope you see the incongruence in your statement: the purpose of DVI MAGIC is to remove encrytion from DVI signals, hence DVI does support HDPC, and there are indeed DVI monitors that already support that encryption.
 
elmimmo said:
I hope you see the incongruence in your statement: the purpose of DVI MAGIC is to remove encrytion from DVI signals, hence DVI does support HDPC, and there are indeed DVI monitors that already support that encryption.
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But if the point of including the new encryption is to prevent you from not using un-approved monitors and ripping the HD source, then why would they let you just blatantly unscramble it and... grab the HD source? (Wouldn't the MPAA minions lobby the law-makers and pass a law making something like DVI MAGIC no longer legal?)

I'm not saying your wrong, but it kind of makes the HDCP thing totally toothless. (Im happy if that is so.)
 
IIRC, HDCP is supported over DVI but not all DVI devices support HDCP. The device has to have the HDCP "chip"


Fukui said:
But if the point of including the new encryption is to prevent you from not using un-approved monitors and ripping the HD source, then why would they let you just blatantly unscramble it and... grab the HD source? (Wouldn't the MPAA minions lobby the law-makers and pass a law making something like DVI MAGIC no longer legal?)

I'm not saying your wrong, but it kind of makes the HDCP thing totally toothless. (Im happy if that is so.)
Click to expand...

The thing w/HDCP is that both devices (ex. the TV and the HiDef DVD player) continuously send encrypted messages back and forth verifying they are both "legit" devices. If the one device cannot verify the other then an you don't get an HD signal. And the "list" of approved devices can be updated by content providers by embedding data in HiDef DVDs or HDTV signals. So if you have a "magic box" that tricks your HiDef DVD player into sending an HD signal into your analog i/o HDTV content providers can get a hold of a copy of the "magic box", find out what encryption keys it's spoofing, and invalidate those keys in an update hidden in, for example, the "X-men 5" DVD. Once you pop that DVD into your player the player will update, recognize your "magic box" is using no longer valid keys and no more HD signal for you.


Lethal
 
Ja Di ksw said:
Darn, another hurdle to jump over if I want to commit a crime :rolleyes:

Oh wait, I don't steal my stuff. Nevermind, I don't care.
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Who are you going to complain to if your computer erroneously decides that the data you wish to view is pirated?

Treating everyone as a criminal is patronising and an insult to customers.
 
.Andy said:
Who are you going to complain to if your computer erroneously decides that the data you wish to view is pirated?

Treating everyone as a criminal is patronising and an insult to customers.
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I agree. We've become a consumer peasantry. Cogs in the machine that can't be trusted otherwise.

That aside, this doesn't seem to be a very forward looking standard. 10 years and twice the resolution just doesn't seem to be enough. Twice the resolution doesn't seem to be enough for 10 years either...
 
Not another expensive Apple flop please. Last month I had to spend £30 on an ADC to DVI connector (PowerMac G4 to Samsung 930BF display) and then cross London to the Lynx depot to collect it. The congestion charge was £8 plus the diesel plus THREE hours driving.

Never again, and all this caused by Apple's megalomaniacal desire to impose a standard doomed to failure. ADC doesn't even connect as firmly as the standard DVI.

Firewire however is a vastly superior standard and should have been kept as an alternative for the iPods.
 
Analog Kid said:
I agree. We've become a consumer peasantry. Cogs in the machine that can't be trusted otherwise.

That aside, this doesn't seem to be a very forward looking standard. 10 years and twice the resolution just doesn't seem to be enough. Twice the resolution doesn't seem to be enough for 10 years either...
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Honestly I think we're starting to get close to the point of diminishing returns. Physically, there's a limit to how big a monitor or TV someone can fit in their office or home and w/in that given size there's only so many pixels that can be resolved by the human eye. For example, making the iPod's screen 1280*720 is pointless because the screen is so small. And I've read in a couple of places that given the average American TV size and viewing distance most people won't notice a big difference between HD and SD because they sit so far back from their "small" TVs that much of the increased resolution of HD is too small to notice.


Lethal
 
LethalWolfe said:
Honestly I think we're starting to get close to the point of diminishing returns. Physically, there's a limit to how big a monitor or TV someone can fit in their office or home and w/in that given size there's only so many pixels that can be resolved by the human eye. For example, making the iPod's screen 1280*720 is pointless because the screen is so small. And I've read in a couple of places that given the average American TV size and viewing distance most people won't notice a big difference between HD and SD because they sit so far back from their "small" TVs that much of the increased resolution of HD is too small to notice.


Lethal
Click to expand...

That's where we get into the realm of resolution independence. Where the objects on the screen are the same size but there are more pixels in that area. The pixel no longer becomes a measurement.

You have say a 1024x768 screen on the iPod but all the text, images etc are the same size as they are now but almost photo-realistic. The text looks as though it's printed, the images are much richer and the videos can be a higher resolution.

On a computer it would be amazing, you could zoom in and out of pages without losing any quality. Resolution independence will be a part of 10.5 and will go very nicely with new very high res screens.
 
Joep said:
Does that mean that my brand new 30 inch Cinema display will be uncapable of displaying the HD content I bought it for?
Click to expand...

Don't think that wil be a problem, it uses a dual DVI connection to overcome the limitations. Problem is the current crop of HD TV's that have only one. At the moment its very hard to present full HD (1920 pixels) from a computer to a TV setup and thats what they are working on with this.
 
Chundles said:
You have say a 1024x768 screen on the iPod but all the text, images etc are the same size as they are now but almost photo-realistic. The text looks as though it's printed, the images are much richer and the videos can be a higher resolution.
Click to expand...

But what's the point of playing back a super-high res video on something the size of the iPod? Is someone going to watch the whole video at 100x magnification?

Is there going to be a market for 17" or 19" monitors running at 5760*3600 in 2010?


Lethal
 
Bonte said:
Don't think that wil be a problem, it uses a dual DVI connection to overcome the limitations. Problem is the current crop of HD TV's that have only one. At the moment its very hard to present full HD (1920 pixels) from a computer to a TV setup and thats what they are working on with this.
Click to expand...

Joep's concern is w/the HDCP (and the Apple 30' is not HDCP compliant AFAIK) not the bandwidth required to drive his monitor.


Lethal
 
.Andy said:
Who are you going to complain to if your computer erroneously decides that the data you wish to view is pirated?

Treating everyone as a criminal is patronising and an insult to customers.
Click to expand...


Exactly. A lot of people build HTPCs these days. In fact, ReplayTV will be selling a package containing an HDTV tuner card and their scheduling software. With UDI and HDCP no one will be able to play back what they record. Right now you can buy a DVR to replace your VCR to record programs off TV. I'm sure that in the future a message will pop up every time you want to play it back saying there will be a $1.99 charge to do so. Why is it that every time technology advances they cripple it with restrictions? One step forward, two steps back.

Oh, and so much for the Mac mini "TiVo-killer" rumor, huh?
 
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