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Apple, iPad, and the Crime that is iTunes

Please let's not let this thread degenerate into another pointless iOS vs Android debate.

Although it is too late for OP hopefully others can learn from his mistakes. This is a great example of where an automated backup program like Time Machine could have saved the day. There are PC equivalents, of course.
 
Wegee said:
With multiple computers you can safely manage and backup your device, but sync process is a pain, you should have the entire library on every computer, same bookmarks, same pictures, same books etc. 😕
Click to expand...

Even that won't protect you.
There's more to identifying the Sync-computer than the library files.

I love my iDevices, but iTunes, I could do without.
Maybe I should try to manage everything manually instead of syncing, that idea is worth a thought.
 
I have zero sympathy for this guy.

He does the ONE THING that anyone who uses iDevices knows you shouldn'r try and do: Sync to more than one computer at a time.

Tell us: How long as iTunes been around? A decade? Because that's about how long I've known you can't sync to two computers. Maybe the OP is really very very slow...

Of course - he hasn't "lost" his Apps. All he needs to do is Sync to the laptop he originally backed up on. Any Apps he downloaded since his last backup to the laptop can be re-downloaded (free of charge, natch) from iTunes.

But no: Rather than take responsibility for his own stupidity, he prefers to come on a forum and start a bitchfest.
 
vrDrew said:
I have zero sympathy for this guy.

He does the ONE THING that anyone who uses iDevices knows you shouldn'r try and do: Sync to more than one computer at a time.

Tell us: How long as iTunes been around? A decade? Because that's about how long I've known you can't sync to two computers. Maybe the OP is really very very slow...

Of course - he hasn't "lost" his Apps. All he needs to do is Sync to the laptop he originally backed up on. Any Apps he downloaded since his last backup to the laptop can be re-downloaded (free of charge, natch) from iTunes.

But no: Rather than take responsibility for his own stupidity, he prefers to come on a forum and start a bitchfest.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the age old Apple fan boy argument ad hominem. I've learned to ignore useless, "well that's how it's always been!", "you're using it wrong" crap like this. I actually design software for a living, and I know what goes into a good design. I'm sorry I hurt your little iHeart. I actually love my iPhone and my iPad; it's iTunes that needs to be redesigned.

Good design:

1. Not tricking users with a false sense of false security. You don't overwrite "backups," you just don't do it without informing users first.
2. Not misleading users with a feature set that touts sharing, and then wipe their devices clean of all their music, apps, contacts, and data when they try to use it with authorized computers, AFTER "transferring their purchases".
3. Ease of use - CLEARLY, from the replies on this forum, even people who are knowledgeable enough to know how to avoid this problem, still run in to it. Can you imagine the issues mainstream non tech savvy users run into?

iTunes craps all over those three principles, and more. If you'd actually read what I wrote you'd know that I don't give a rat's ass about "losing" my apps in comparison with losing my data. The point was, for a billion dollar company that touts ease of use, BOTH are unacceptable. You're right about one thing though, I should have known better than to think that iTunes actually changed things for the better after a decade... silly me. Who would think such a thing?

It's for this reason that I rarely sync with iTunes; I'm forced to remember all its pitfalls that don't make sense so I can make sure that a process that is supposed to keep my data safe, and my device configured just the way I want it, doesn't do just the opposite. And it's for this reason that countless threads exist about this very topic. iTunes backup and sync is an embarrassment.

Thanks to everyone who replied with their experiences and useful advice. I may try the dropbox method. Also important for anyone who has read this far to note: I actually didn't "sync" with my laptop initially. I did a manual backup, but apparently that was enough to set the "wipe everything" flag on my iDevice. Bottom line is that if you ever connect your iDevice to a different computer, it seems that the results are unexpected at best when connecting to a different device. And from what I can gather from some of the replies to this thread, even syncing with a single device has been inconsistent for some people. Good luck.
 
vrDrew said:
I have zero sympathy for this guy.

He does the ONE THING that anyone who uses iDevices knows you shouldn'r try and do: Sync to more than one computer at a time.

Tell us: How long as iTunes been around? A decade? Because that's about how long I've known you can't sync to two computers. Maybe the OP is really very very slow...

Of course - he hasn't "lost" his Apps. All he needs to do is Sync to the laptop he originally backed up on. Any Apps he downloaded since his last backup to the laptop can be re-downloaded (free of charge, natch) from iTunes.

But no: Rather than take responsibility for his own stupidity, he prefers to come on a forum and start a bitchfest.
Click to expand...
So using your way of thinking somebody who is new to Apple and buys their first Apple product is not going to make the same mistakes? iTunes is flawed big time, it's a disastrous application that Apple needs to redesign. Apple likes to tout their ease of use and it's the computer for the non compute type of person. Well I can tell you from my phone ringing, all my non-computer friends have had the same issues because iTunes is very confusing. It defaults to the wrong settings and just wipes out your iPad the first time you sync it.

Stop blaming the user, if software causes these types of issues it's a design problem. Apple could do a much better job if they just tried. I find it amazing how Steve Jobs will blast Adobe for being lazy for their bloated Flash code and Steve has his own Flash product called iTunes.
 
mcdj said:
Still, I wonder if it's a PC thing. My Mac keeps ALL my backups, to the point where I have to delete some after a while because they eat disk space
Click to expand...

I think you're right. I vaguely remember my MBP creating new backups rather than overwriting old ones. I haven't synced with that machine in at least a year though; I will test it out. This must be Steve's way of punishing PC users. 😉

gquiring said:
Stop blaming the user, if software causes these types of issues it's a design problem.
Click to expand...

Perfectly stated.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
gquiring said:
Stop blaming the user, if software causes these types of issues it's a design problem. Apple could do a much better job if they just tried. I find it amazing how Steve Jobs will blast Adobe for being lazy for their bloated Flash code and Steve has his own Flash product called iTunes.
Click to expand...
Although in this case it does appear to be user error (however accidental) I would wholeheartedly agree that iTunes has terrible design problems and really needs to be re-written from the ground up. Either that or remove it entirely as a requirement and just have the iPad/iPhone sync with Finder.
 
anjinha said:
Apple doesn't expect the iPad to replace laptops, they want you to have both.
Click to expand...

anjinha said:
Then get an Android tablet. I'm all for asking for features you need but if a device doesn't do what you want you should get the one that does.

The iPad is not going to replace a laptop anytime soon and that's just the way it is. Either take the iPad for what it is or find something else.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The biggest mistake anyone can make about companies is thinking that they are designing specifically for YOU and no one else. The guy does have a right to want certain features, but if they aren't found in an iPad then there are plenty of other tablets . . . . GOOD ones (regardless of the hype or lack there of) out there for users.

My mother-in-law is destined to have an Samsung Galaxy Tab . . . loves it and loves Google, saves money getting one too. That device is perfect for her.

I personally am an Android/HTC Sense Fanboy to the extreme, but I will be plunking down my cash for an iPad because of those sweet Apps that Marketcircle makes.

Kal525 said:
Ah yes, the age old Apple fan boy argument ad hominem. I've learned to ignore useless, "well that's how it's always been!", "you're using it wrong" crap like this. I actually design software for a living, and I know what goes into a good design. I'm sorry I hurt your little iHeart. I actually love my iPhone and my iPad; it's iTunes that needs to be redesigned.
Click to expand...

Best bet is to try not to reason with those types. I thought this was going to be another 😡😡😡 type of thread, but you've had a very commendable attitude, and most have made very sensible posts.

To get back on topic, as others have said, yes, there's a misconception that an iOS device is a standalone product as versatile as any computer or Treo or Android etc. etc. but to the users benefit it's not and it has to be paired with a sole machine.

Inside the iTunes folder on your Mac or PC rests the backups and apps and music and everything that you'd stick on your iOS devices. If you need to upgrade your machine, take ALL of those files with you and you'll still have your backup and all of your files.

Never try to sync to more that one machine, especially if it's not your own machine.

It's to the users benefit because they won't be searching all over the place for that last backup they had, and it also keeps your personal info safe: e.g. you back up to my computer, I restore your backup to my iPad, download crazy songs and apps on your credit card.
 
foranor said:
Even that won't protect you.
There's more to identifying the Sync-computer than the library files.
Click to expand...

I don't know about mac, but on pc just copy some database files stored in user/music/itunes and user/appdata/ does the trick to manage music and other files without alert boxes about the need to sync or delete anything.

I love my iDevices, but iTunes, I could do without.
Maybe I should try to manage everything manually instead of syncing, that idea is worth a thought.
Click to expand...

Agree, manage manually is the way to go, although you can't actually manage everything manually.
 
LMAO, the OP synced to two separate computers, and blames iTunes! Muahahahahahahaha!

PEBCAK! Maybe even an ID10T error!
 
Kal525 said:
Forgive the rant, but I cannot believe what just happened while trying to sync the applications on my iPad with my PC. I literally just lost everything, the applications, and more importantly, the data associated with them.
Click to expand...

if it's so confusing then go Android. no need to sync at all
 
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The erasure of all my applications I half expected. The only reason I thought it *might* work is because I didn't actually sync my iPad with the first machine (the sync apps checkbox was left unchecked), I just initiated a manual backup. I was also able to transfer my purchases to the second machine.

The inexcusable design flaw for me is the overwriting of backups which effectively renders them useless. Since the behavior seems to be different between PC and Mac, since the Mac doesn't appear to overwrite backups according to some users, I'm considering writing a small piece of software to manage iOS backups on Windows machines.
 
Kal525 said:
Forgive the rant, but I cannot believe what just happened while trying to sync the applications on my iPad with my PC. I literally just lost everything, the applications, and more importantly, the data associated with them.

How a company like Apple can design such excellent hardware, yet at the same time create crappy software like iTunes, is beyond me. It's borderline criminal. As a user I should be able to use what I have rightfully purchased on any one of the computers that I own, especially since Apple even leads us into believing we should be able to, with features like: "Transfer Purchases", "Home Sharing", and authorization on up to "5 devices". What total BS.

The situation:
- I had backed up my iPad on my laptop computer
- I used the iPad for a couple of weeks without backing it up, downloading lots of apps, and creating lots of data behind them.
- I decided it would be a good idea to transfer the apps to my main PC and backup the iPad, "just in case."
- Connect iPad to PC, right click, "Backup". Backup completes - false sense of security established.
- Right click and select "Transfer Purchases" menu option which copies all the apps on my iPad to my PC.
- Click on Apps tab in iTunes, and check the sync checkbox. Sync iPad, every single app on iPad is deleted. Thanks, iTunes! So glad I "transferred my purchases."
- No worries... my data is still in the backup.
- I update the iPad software with the plan to restore from backup, but as soon as it finishes updating the software it creates a new backup... OVERWRITING my previous one. All my data - gone.

Does it really take a genius to figure out how flawed iTunes is, let alone a supposedly design-centric organization like Apple? What is the point of a backup if it's overwritten on every sync? And why have of all these cool home sharing features if syncing to more than one computer completely demolishes everything on the device? Sharing? Really?

Browsing the internet reveals ENDLESS posts about people losing apps, music, data... everything. People are actually safer NEVER connecting their iOS device to their computer.

Let this serve as a warning to anyone thinking their data is safe on their iOS device. It is far from it as long as iTunes holds the reigns. If you must connect your device to iTunes, I implore you to do three things:

1. Backup the device first, and copy the backup directory FAR FAR away from the iTunes "MobileSync" backup folder so that iTunes doesn't do you any "favors."
2. NEVER sync with more than one computer for the entire life of the device. If you get a new computer and want to sync with that one instead. Sorry, you're utterly screwed, unless you feel like doing this: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/889096/
3. Never store anything critical on an iOS device. And if you must, use applications that sync to the cloud. Apple doesn't seem to care enough about the obvious issues with the way backups and syncing *don't* work to want to do anything about it. iTunes has behaved this way for at least 5 years. It's my own fault for thinking that it changed in that time.

Lastly, forgive the rant; I just hope that this serves as a wake-up call for anyone thinking that data on their iOS device is safe - it is not.
Click to expand...


The entire iTunes/iOS "experience" completely sucks. It always amazes me that even I still put up with it. But then again, it's just because I already spent money on an iPhone and don't want to spend even more money just to get away from it - only to discover that all other alternatives are probably even worse.

The best solution for you: Jailbreak your device. From that moment on, you no longer have to rely on Apple's digital prison, also known as "iTunes".
 
I found iTunes to be the opposite of what the OP is describing.

I spent many years raging against Apple and iTunes, but that meant that I had to manually drag and drop all my music to an MP3 player or phone (which usually took WAY longer than a simple iTunes sync) and every device handled the song/album information differently. Hell, my LG Chocolate used to put the songs in alphabetical order instead of album order, which drive me NUTS, so I would have to go in and rename all the songs with numbers to maket them play in the right order.

These days, I find iTunes to be refreshing. There is no manual song management, and usually no album art management either. I have an iPhone 4 that I find a pleasure to use (the iPod is my favorite part of the phone), and an iPad 2 on the way if Apple ever decides to ship it. I love that I can just plug it in, it syncs itself up within about a minute, and I'm good to go. I have my computer set to automatically back up all my content to another hard drive in case my iTunes ever freaks our or my computer crashes. Problem solved--life is much easier. I used to spend HOURS organizing and customizing my MP3s to work on specific players.
 
I agree iTunes is a POS. But what the OP should do, is to transfer purchases to a new computer, then back up, then sync app, let iTunes delete your things, and then restore from back up. You can now sync all your apps with the new computer without losing any app data.
 
Kal525 said:
- Right click and select "Transfer Purchases" menu option which copies all the apps on my iPad to my PC.
Click to expand...

I only quoted this small part, because I believe that is where you went wrong. I just set up syncing my iPad with my new laptop. Did a search to find out what to do so I didn't lose my data. Transferred all purchases over since that is the only option to get purchased movies and music on to the new laptop. But then deleted all the apps on the laptop that were transferred. Then performed the sync. Lost no data from my iPad

I am in OSX so it may be different for the PC. But I would assume the same message comes up on the PC version of iTunes that comes up in OSX which warns you will/may lose your data if you sync if you don't do it this way. So I do feel for you and agree there should be more user options when syncing. I can't help but think you didn't read the warning and just clicked through, and or you didn't look up how to go about syncing to a new computer once you did see the warning.
 
spiderman0616 said:
I found iTunes to be the opposite of what the OP is describing.

I spent many years raging against Apple and iTunes, but that meant that I had to manually drag and drop all my music to an MP3 player or phone (which usually took WAY longer than a simple iTunes sync) and every device handled the song/album information differently. Hell, my LG Chocolate used to put the songs in alphabetical order instead of album order, which drive me NUTS, so I would have to go in and rename all the songs with numbers to maket them play in the right order.

These days, I find iTunes to be refreshing. There is no manual song management, and usually no album art management either. I have an iPhone 4 that I find a pleasure to use (the iPod is my favorite part of the phone), and an iPad 2 on the way if Apple ever decides to ship it. I love that I can just plug it in, it syncs itself up within about a minute, and I'm good to go. I have my computer set to automatically back up all my content to another hard drive in case my iTunes ever freaks our or my computer crashes. Problem solved--life is much easier. I used to spend HOURS organizing and customizing my MP3s to work on specific players.
Click to expand...

I use a mix of manual management and auto management. I manually do my videos mainly because until recently I didn't have a lot of them but then I set up an iDevice playlist to sync with my devices and just drag music into that playlist to sync because my entire library is over 60 gig of music. I agree my experience is the exact opposite, however iTunes can easily eff up things if you don't know what you're doing.
 
haruhiko said:
I agree iTunes is a POS. But what the OP should do, is to transfer purchases to a new computer, then back up, then sync app, let iTunes delete your things, and then restore from back up. You can now sync all your apps with the new computer without losing any app data.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I did. The issue is that iTunes overwrites backups on the PC.

1. Transfer purchases
2. Manual backup created
3. Synced and let iTunes delete my apps, no big deal, since they were on my computer anyway at that point. I've read that after the delete message comes a friendlier message saying that purchased apps were found and that apps on the device will be left there. This didn't happen. I wasn't surprised.
4. Update iPad software
5. iTunes automatically creates another backup which does not contain my app data, overwriting my good backup. I was surprised.
 
Something needs to be done about iTunes and the iPad's reliance on it, but apple probably won't take any action until or unless they have a riot on their hands.

I have a feeling it will take the release of another tablet by some other company that isn't laden with all the DRM restriction BS. I'd happily swap my iPad for a tablet running an open source, possibly linux based OS, with a file system and the option to use a mouse & keyboard whenever I wanted. Ideally, it would show up as an external drive when plugged in, with specific folders for specific applications and file types.

I'm keeping an eye on jail breaking developments for the ipad2, hoping one day to be able to code HTML and CSS on it. I can dream can't I?
 
Just in Case? syncing with 2 computers? are you retarded?

obviously. aannnnd the refrain...


YOU
ARE
USING
IT
WRONG
 
Things I like/love about iTunes:
- smart playlists (I use ratings extensively on my music library, and I even use a smart playlist to rotate random videos onto my iPad)
- smart syncing (each iDevice can sync different content)
- avoids having to manually drag-and-drop my media to a device, especially when I have multiple devices with different storage space
- does backups for my devices

Things that are annoying but tolerable:
- backups stored in non-standard location on a PC (should be somewhere under "My Documents" since that is what most normal people backup)
- would prefer to be able to select a primary location for each type of media on the PC (music on internal HD, videos on external HD, etc). I do this manually right now but would like it to be built-in.

Things I really don't like:
- book organization (can't setup categories and set the order of books in iTunes and replicate to iBooks on your iDevice)
- photo organization (need more control to setup albums and the order of photos, especially on a PC)
- seems to be a system resource hog
 
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