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Apple, iPad, and the Crime that is iTunes
- Thread starter Kal525
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I blame the OP and iTunes.
iTunes works great for me though. Not perfect, but I don't see any greener grass on the other side of the fence either.
The rest of iTunes is actually pretty good. But the syncing and backup features really need an overhaul.
That strikes me as odd, but OK, I believe it.
Well all I can say is that I would have synchronized the iPad with its main computer and updated all software through that to begin with. I don't want to just say 'user error' but it seems you are using things in ways which seem pretty unorthodox and non-intuitive (to most people). Initiating a manual backup on one machine, but no synchronization, and then doing what you did on another machine? This is why I'm having trouble following the links to see at which point your data got lost and where you could turn to get it back. Others have given some answers to tat I believe. I agree that it is frustrating and that software should be as simple as possible, but at the same time, no matter how simple a tool is, there's always the wrong end of the knife to hold, if you know what I mean.
If you really think that then you have never used a good media player/management tool before (like http://www.jriver.com/index.html) Even though our main systems are all OSX I still keep my master iTunes library on a windows PC so I can use J River Media Center as my primary library management tool.
Good input.
Let me try to clear things up with a more detailed breakdown. This is the best I can recollect.
Machine 1
1. A few weeks ago I was going to try to exchange my iPad 2 for a different model, so I connected it to my laptop (PC - Windows 7), and made a backup.
2. I then did a restore (*not* form backup) on the iPad to completely wipe it of all data and restore it to factory settings.
3. I learned that iPad 2 is perpetually sold out, and so decide to stick with the model I originally bought.
4. I restored the backup I made, and everything was peachy.
---
This is the last time my iPad was ever connected to machine 1. For two weeks I used my iPad without connecting it to a computer.
---
Machine 2
1. Last night I decided to copy the apps I had accumulated on my iPad to my home PC, as well as make a backup.
2. I opened iTunes and connected my iPad and it was recognized correctly.
3. It prompted me to do a software update. I clicked cancel.
4. I right clicked on the iPad in iTunes and selected the "Transfer Purchases" menu option, which copied my apps to my PC.
5. I went to the apps tab in iTunes and checked sync apps, hoping that it would allow me to keep my applications, since they were just transferred to the PC. Unfortunately, it prompted me with a message that said all apps would be deleted. I clicked yes, to see if what I've read on the internet about it not actually deleting the apps if they have been transfered to the pc was true. This was not true. All apps were deleted.
Design Aside: I didn't care *that* much that the apps were deleted, since I had just made a backup of my data. But for me, this is poor design choice #1. If an iDevice is able to transfer it's purchased apps to a computer, then it should be allowed to keep those apps installed. Both the PC and my iPad are registered to the same iTunes account. This is something Apple could and should, in my opinion, change.
6. I initiated a software update on the iPad.
7. As soon as the update completed, it automatically created a backup which overwrote the backup that I had created manually.
8. When I went to the restore options, only one iPad backup was listed, and restoring to it did not restore my original, pre-app deleted state. My data was gone.
Design Aside: This is poor design choice #2, and the worst one of the two. Right before Windows installs updates, it creates system restore points. Once the update completes, it doesn't overwrite that same restore point with a new one. That would defeat the purpose of creating that first restore point. It is my opinion that Apple should never overwrite a backup, unless the user is prompted first. That would be a good design. If they want to keep messages out of the users' faces, then they could compare different backups and delete the smaller one. There are many more intelligent way to handle backups that don't involve simply overwriting manually generated ones. This was most disappointing for me to experience, not just because I lost all my data, but because I like how Apple designs most of their products, and cannot understand why they would be so shortsighted when it comes to something so critical.
Anyway, it's over and done with, and my lesson is learned. I can't trust the backup process without copying the backup folder outside of the MobileSync directory, which is really too bad, because I'd like to be able to rely on iTunes to manage the backups for me.
If anyone would like more info about a specific thing missing from the above description, just let me know.
IMHO the main problem with Apples approach to iPad backups and syncing is that Apples makes you use the iPad as the primary data producing machine. However as soon as you want backups Apple treats the iPad as a dumb client to iTunes.
This is a discrepancy in expectation that we users have towards the iPad and the backup reality that Apple uses.
I would expect that my iPad gets synced as a individual device and fully backed up as soon as I connect it to any computer. iTunes should ask for a password at that point. What happens is that iTunes wipes the iPad by default. This is a unfortunate setup by Apple and some users here can call that "using it wrong" or "retarded" or whatever insulting comment they want to make. It still is a bad design and it is not user friendly.
I would like to have the possibility to sync and backup my iPad to three machines and also backup my GF's iPhone and iPod to our computers but it doesn't work because Apple doesn't want to do it that way. Fortunately I noticed this flaw before I lost data.
This is a discrepancy in expectation that we users have towards the iPad and the backup reality that Apple uses.
I would expect that my iPad gets synced as a individual device and fully backed up as soon as I connect it to any computer. iTunes should ask for a password at that point. What happens is that iTunes wipes the iPad by default. This is a unfortunate setup by Apple and some users here can call that "using it wrong" or "retarded" or whatever insulting comment they want to make. It still is a bad design and it is not user friendly.
I would like to have the possibility to sync and backup my iPad to three machines and also backup my GF's iPhone and iPod to our computers but it doesn't work because Apple doesn't want to do it that way. Fortunately I noticed this flaw before I lost data.
No prob. I rest at night knowing my data is safe b/c I do proper backups of my entire hard drive weekly plus nightly backups of my data (docs, songs, videos, pics) plus Time Machine plus mobleme for contact list, calendar back up plus cloud back up of docs and video. I also have all of my songs on separate machines.
iTMS is horrible for music and video, I agree. A lot of it is not Apple fault, it's what studios demand. As a result I do not buy media from iTunes except for Apps. I mostly still by CDs (better audio quality, instant hard copy backup, and usually less expensive on Amazon than the download version. If Amazon has a digital version for $3-4 I might buy that version depending on the band).
You can only sync "one" iPad with "one"
computer at a time....you messed it up, don't blame iTunes....
computer at a time....you messed it up, don't blame iTunes....
+1 Not to mention I love how people blame Apple for DRM when in reality its the content holders. They obviously never read the letter Steve Jobs wrote about his opinions on DRM back in 2007.
But its trendy to blame Apple for everything.
No offense intended OP but you sound like you don't understand syncing. Syncing is mirroring data from one source to another. I think what you may be trying to do is appending data which is adding from different sources.
Still confusing.
Your timeline does not state you did a manual data backup to your 2nd machine. YOu just transferred purchases.
I get the feeling you outsmarted yourself here and blew up your own backups.
And I can understand that. The lay person would be fine because they would let Apple handle everything and wouldn't be manually backing up to multiple computers and trying to trade in their ipad days after getting it.
The total expert would also be fine.
It's the guy in between that has a problem. The guy that knows enough to be dangerous.
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Here's the official word btw.
Remember: If you choose to set up your iPad as a new, first back up any important backups of that device you want to retain from the backup folders listed above. iTunes only retains one sync-generated backup per device, and the first sync after setting up as new will replace your previous backup. If you change your mind and want to restore to your previous state, you will have to do so from a backup that you have retained through your periodic backup routine. If you have Mac OS 10.5.5 or later and use Time Machine, Time Machine may back up your backup. Copies of a backup marked with a date-and-time stamp created by selecting to "Restore from the back up of" are retained by iTunes and not overwritten. For an example of a backup with the date-and-time stamp in the device name, see the picture below in the Deleting a Backup section.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4079
Remember: If you choose to set up your iPad as a new, first back up any important backups of that device you want to retain from the backup folders listed above. iTunes only retains one sync-generated backup per device, and the first sync after setting up as new will replace your previous backup. If you change your mind and want to restore to your previous state, you will have to do so from a backup that you have retained through your periodic backup routine. If you have Mac OS 10.5.5 or later and use Time Machine, Time Machine may back up your backup. Copies of a backup marked with a date-and-time stamp created by selecting to "Restore from the back up of" are retained by iTunes and not overwritten. For an example of a backup with the date-and-time stamp in the device name, see the picture below in the Deleting a Backup section.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4079
PC people always overcomplicate things. I think it's a hard transition sometimes and they always take the complicated road and end up screwing things up. There should be a warning on Apple devices and software; PC users please leave your painful MS/PC experiences behind before you begin using this device / software.
I got flamed up last time i said this... I use a ready nas duo and people come from all over the wood work saying they have theirs working with network library... I ran into nothing but issues trying to set it up... , as far as i know and again with your post I am still left to believe my experience and hope for a real solution to make it sync with a networked library that is truely shared with multiple devices. And I agree, home sharing is a JOKE!
And for others... What does the movie/music insdustry have to do with me connection my purchased device to a computer for file management? Apple forces us to use itunes for no other reason but to one the ONE AND ONLY SOURCE FOR ALL MEDIA! They lock other files out not because of performace and piracy, but for the fact that they can control a locked file easily and keep most of you buying from them. It is to make money period.
I agree that file management is easier and if i did not keep my media on a networked share, I would use my windows pc(s). But since I dont, I refuse to install any apple software on my windows pcs... safari, quicktime, itunes,... no way...
Shoot, and ripping cd(s) with itunes is a complete mess. It butchers the files so bad it is a shame. For some of you out there, you probably do not mind as you are used to some software telling you were your files are and you think it is easy this way. I am very hands on and do not want anything managing my files unless I say so. I need a choice. In fact, it should just manage the interface and index the files where ever they are... This is where windows 7 whoops osx's tail. Indexing and libraries =
. Shoot, I even have the mac as a library location. But this I why I do not limit my choice by being a fan boy. Until one of these companies is paying me, I will not be locked down...No experience with Synology/Ready NAS but I have a QNAP NAS and it works with iTunes like a charm.
I agree that file management is easier and if i did not keep my media on a networked share, I would use my windows pc(s). But since I dont, I refuse to install any apple software on my windows pcs... safari, quicktime, itunes,... no way...
Shoot, and ripping cd(s) with itunes is a complete mess. It butchers the files so bad it is a shame. For some of you out there, you probably do not mind as you are used to some software telling you were your files are and you think it is easy this way. I am very hands on and do not want anything managing my files unless I say so. I need a choice. In fact, it should just manage the interface and index the files where ever they are... This is where windows 7 whoops osx's tail. Indexing and libraries =
How does it butcher the files when ripping CDs?
I have my MP3s scattered over two drives and several folders and have never had iTunes get in the way of managing those files. Not sure what's going on with you.
You are RIGHT about our misconception, but wrong about painful MS/PC experiences... We just want our options... We would like to a choice between a "dumb down easy we tell you when and where to $#!t" way or a open avenue of choices...
There are things I absolutely love about OSx. I have been using it for years, but then there are things that just boggle my mind and frustrate. This is way I do not limit myself on platforms. I use what is appropriate for the given situation.
What I cannot stand is some old fart comparing is old windows 95 pc to a mac running osx... So silly, but people do it. I just a gadget and tech monger... I cant stop and have to have/experience the latest to keep me on the edge.
Here we go again... The way it manages artist files with contributing artists... For example... B.B.King Cd... Makes a BBKINg Folder, the album folder then,the music files. Now you get to a song that has BBKing and Eric Clapton... It makes a totally new folder for the two artist, then the album title, then the music files...
Shoot, I want to be able to grab a bb king folder and know that it has all of his songs.
Yeah, you can change some settings on the way it manages files, but why is it so bad in the first place?
Managing files by hand is no better - if you want a folder with all of Clapton's songs and a folder with all of BB King's then where do you put that file? Making duplicate files is wasting your life away. If you want all his songs on your device you make a playlist, which is easier and faster than dragging files around, and it's still 'hands-on'.
When would you want to 'just grab the BB King folder'? I'm seriously asking.
My experience is just the opposite: I can have files all over my computer and it doesn't give me trouble, and it also organizes them faster and better than doing it by hand would be.
EDIT: And it's not 'locked down' either. You make it sounds like iTunes carts off all my media and prohibits access to it, all while mangling organization and quality. I have no idea what program you are using, since iTunes doesn't do this at all. I have no idea how some of you use your computers.
I just backup my entire iTunes folder to an external drive. I've moved my iTunes from one computer or Windows install to another very easily that way. You install iTunes on a new computer, run it and set it up, then replace the "fresh" iTunes folder with your own. Works great. I don't know if it works that way on a Mac though?
Its organizational method is a subjective preference which in no way invalidates your opinion. I don't have an issue with it, but that's just me.
Using your example. Just add BB King to the Album Artist field and it will group all the tracks in a single BB King folder regardless of what is in the Artist field.
Or you can tell iTunes not to keep the media folder organized/copy files and it won't alter the folder structure you manually created.
#1, If I buy a BB King CD, Then I want it in a folder labeled BBKING, ALBUM NAME, ALL SONGS ON CD... Who is silly enough to have multiple files? If it is a BBKing song featuring Eric Claptan, they whose song is it??? I manage my files in a certain order. It is up to the software to index it and let me search easily... BTW, with windows media player does with ease. I point it where I my music is, I plug in a mp3 player and either use a playlist or tell it what songs to sync.
#2 As I DO NO use I tunes to manage my music, I drag and drop my files using different software. I also allow my family to access my music from my network. So, if my brother wants a stone temple pilot, he can search in one place... you know using file management when YOU ARE NOT USING ITUNES... Also, I have multiple computers, I might want to transfer music and other files freely... You do know that you can only us one itunes library right?
I can plug in any computer and transfer files. I only put music on my ipod, not the phone or the ipad. Now that I have other apps on my iphone/ipad that allow file management and drag/drop usb I put other files and have broadened the use out of these toys. And give me that arguement that they are not toys people use them in business. Yes they do, we do to... for email?! That is well nothing...#3Playlists... I do use them, but not for syncing. I have multiple mp3 players and such I do drap and drop.
#4 What is not locked down? Files, no... iOS devices, yes... That is if you want to keep your warranty. I will give them credit where i is due, but I guess i have a HIGHER expectation than some of you...
Man, you people that love it fine... But this is a forum of not only rants, but facts. You fanboys spend too much time sipping apple koolaid and swiming in D-Nile. Some of us are just not chained to itunes. You lilke it, good. It is crap to me and until it changes or apple gives us a REAL IOS device management tool, I will keep as far away as I can... How I wish I could brag about it, but I cant. Believe me, I want to... I reeeeaaaaalllly doooooo...
Check this out... http://www.copytrans.net/
I sync flawlessly with 3 machines and across several devices. Granted none of them are PC. The pop up boxes that give you options may not be the best worded or intuitive but if you select the right one, you have no problems.
I share my itunes library as well across devices without need to replicate.
So I think your problem with iTunes is either unique to you or a PC problem.
Lastly, use Time Machine and you will never have this problem with backups being overwritten.
I share my itunes library as well across devices without need to replicate.
So I think your problem with iTunes is either unique to you or a PC problem.
Lastly, use Time Machine and you will never have this problem with backups being overwritten.
This is exactly what iTunes does by default - the BB King CD will go in a folder 'BB King' with sub-folders for each album. If it doesn't do this, change the file info in iTunes and it will happen for you, and will do it faster than dragging around things in folder windows.
#2 As I DO NO use I tunes to manage my music, I drag and drop my files using different software. I also allow my family to access my music from my network. So, if my brother wants a stone temple pilot, he can search in one place... you know using file management when YOU ARE NOT USING ITUNES... Also, I have multiple computers, I might want to transfer music and other files freely... You do know that you can only us one itunes library right?
I have no idea what you are going on about. You can share your STP with your brother through iTunes very easily. And why would I do file management of media when I am not using iTunes? Go into folders and manually rename and move around tracks? Why on earth?
If you have multiple computers you can have a networked drive. If you move an external drive among computers they can recognize the hard drive(s) you plug in as your iTunes library, also very easily. You can have multiple libraries too. I still don't know what it is you want to do that iTunes doesn't do better. I'm serious, I have no idea what the problem is. Going to drag-drop for managing your music is a step backwards and is probably what @#$%s up your experience to begin with.
You can copy files from iTunes folders still. But yes, iTunes is not great for those people using multiple non-Apple MP3 players. I don't expect Apple to make universal software, they don't purport to, if you don't like this it's really not Apple's fault.
what is man . . . against such genius. . .
EDIT: I still don't understand what it is to be 'chained to iTunes'. What is it that iTunes stops me from doing? Manually renaming a few thousand files? That's a problem for people who have too much time or have some pathological compulsion.