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steve is a facist

This puts a bad taste in my mouth. I guess Steve thinks we're all idiots, well I'm not going to be dumb enough to buy into this....at least be honest and just say we sold our souls to ATT and they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform.
 
This puts a bad taste in my mouth. I guess Steve thinks we're all idiots, well I'm not going to be dumb enough to buy into this....at least be honest and just say we sold our souls to ATT and they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform.

Yes, that makes him a fascist :rolleyes:

And who says they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform? It seems like the worst case scenario here is some situation where there is an iPhone Software section on the iTunes Store, similar to how you can buy iPod games right now, and people who make software for it will have to sell through there. But those people would clearly make money off of it.

Also, sold their souls to ATT? Give me a break. Almost every company that makes cellphones does exclusive deals with different providers; Apple hasn't sold their soul to Cingular any more than Samsung did by giving them the exclusive on the BlackJack.

-Zadillo
 
I'm not really concerned if the OS is full or mini version. My main concern is quotes like this, “We define everything that is on the phone". Thanks, but no thanks. What if I wanted Adium on my phone but Apple doesn't. Let the user decide what they want on the phone, let them take responsibility.

yeah but then its the user who will end up bitching and complaining because "Oh no! an app compromised the stability of my phone! Screw apple!"

its a lose lose situation for apple with you people. If you honestly think you won't be able to put a boatload of different apps and such on this phone by this time next year, you need a reality check.
 
This puts a bad taste in my mouth. I guess Steve thinks we're all idiots, well I'm not going to be dumb enough to buy into this....at least be honest and just say we sold our souls to ATT and they won't let anyone else make a dime on the platform.

The CEO of AT&T really hounded in the fact that apple did not have a virtual network and it was 100% AT&T. "An agreement where Cingular can me Cingular."
 
Who needs 3rd party apps when Apple can give us apps that are "Software Breakthrough...software that's at least 5 years ahead of any other phone" SJ 2007 MW Keynote :p
 
Who needs 3rd party apps when Apple can give us apps that are "Software Breakthrough...software that's at least 5 years ahead of any other phone" SJ 2007 MW Keynote :p

Just because there isn't much of it, doesn't mean it isn't 5 years ahead.
 
its a lose lose situation for apple with you people. If you honestly think you won't be able to put a boatload of different apps and such on this phone by this time next year, you need a reality check.

Sorry, All we've got to go on right now is the word of SJ, and if he says they want to keep control of 3rd party software, that is what we react to.

The issue is the level of control. If it requires that I sign up on developer.apple.com, get an ID which is compiled in with the app for 'signing' purposes (kinda like Palm does, and that actually works really well), then fine. The market decides whether my app succeeds or not (or, wrt vertical markets, i don't care about the wide market, just a niche). Good.

However, if it means that my app has to come through a 'screening committee', then the whole thing is going to bog down in absolute uselessness.

Finally, what is this going to cost me as a developer? Is this screening process going to be free? What then if I want to make a piece of freeware?

It's all about reaction time. Look at the speed that the iPhony Launcher came to 'market'. One day. Yes, it's just a toy/joke, but it illustrates the fact that the developer had an idea, created the app, and sent it out on the market. THAT's the kind of free-flowing spirit that the iPhone needs to really blossom.

Ah hell, why bother. Users don't seem to get that developers see all the different things that this computer (yeah, computer, whether you call it a phone or not) will be able to do. And neither can Apple. They cannot envisage every single little thing that the whole seething mass of developers can think of.

I just hope that it is opened up to 3rd parties. Then it really can become the tricorder of the age.
 
We make a 3rd party database engine for .NET and for the first time ever i was seriously excited about exploring how to get into the Apple's OS X developer market because of the iPhone. We were looking forward to achieving the following:
http://www.vistadb.net/blog/?p=11

The iPhone is clearly a revolutionary device, but if software developers can't build applications for it, it will not dominate the business market. And signing with Cingular didn't help things. Very sad to see Apple missing the big picture and enormous opportunity ... yet again. I may reluctantly buy the iPhone -- it looks too good to ignore - but i'll be waiting for Microsoft/Verizon/(+Morotorla?) to wake up and build a phone based on Vista's UI that competes head-on. Apple was sooo close.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net
 
We make a 3rd party database engine for .NET and for the first time ever i was seriously excited about exploring how to get into the Apple's OS X developer market because of the iPhone. We were looking forward to achieving the following:
http://www.vistadb.net/blog/?p=11

The iPhone is clearly a revolutionary device, but if software developers can't build applications for it, it will not dominate the business market. And signing with Cingular didn't help things. Very sad to see Apple missing the big picture and enormous opportunity ... yet again. I may reluctantly buy the iPhone -- it looks too good to ignore - but i'll be waiting for Microsoft/Verizon/(+Morotorla?) to wake up and build a phone based on Vista's UI that competes head-on. Apple was sooo close.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

Again, it's been said time and time again, but there is still a lot we don't know. But your statement that software devs can't build applications for it doesn't seem to have any basis to it; we haven't seen exactly how third party dev will be handled, but it sounds like there will be a way to do it, just that there might be some controlled platform, rather than just unfettered ability for third party apps to be installed.

Either way, you speak about it like the iPhone as we know it will remain exactly the same. But I don't see any basis for that. If the iPod is any indication, things will be expanded, and the platform will probably change as demands are met.

Just as an example, the original iPod didn't have anything like the Dock Connector. But it was added eventually to meet the demand from third party accessory makers who wanted to create products that worked with the iPod.

The post above would be like saying "It's a shame the iPod is never going to have any way to interface with third party accessories", making the incorrect assumption that the platform won't or can't change or adapt.

Again, this is a first effort from a company which has never made cellphones before. I think it is reasonable to expect that, as with the iPod, Apple will look at the things people demand which the initial product doesn't have, and work on adding them.

Heck, remember, the original iPod did almost nothing but play music. But even the iPod was grown to add features, including things that Apple initially dismissed (i.e. they used to say they'd never do video because there wasn't a demand for it).

I can see from the posts you made on your own blog that you've already come to the conclusion that this is all set in stone though, and that MS is going to "crush" it.

Personally though, if I were a dev interested in developing for the iPhone, I'd actually keep an eye on developer.apple.com and see what Apple's actual plans are for third party development support.

But your conclusion right now that it is completely closed to third party development seems premature. I think we all need to actually wait until Apple actually releases some information on it.

But to say that it is closed really does imply that third party development will be impossible. The few things Apple has said so far have sounded more like a controlled environment where third parties will be able to develop apps, but there might need to be some sort of signing process, etc, like Symbian 9.x handles full API apps, etc.

Or, of course, just wait for Microsoft and Motorola (or whoever) to come out with their iPhone killer. I wouldn't personally count on seeing something like that any time soon, as I think MS has clearly oriented Windows Mobile for a different type of market, and it would require a pretty radical change in WinMob to be like what the iPhone will be, but who knows.

-Zadillo
 
You're right and i really hope that Apple opens up the iPhone to developers sooner rather than later. They have tremendous momentum right now.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

I do too. I think the big question is really just who Apple is aiming at with the iPhone, or if in fact they are trying to create some sort of new hybrid market.

What I've seen so far really makes me think that Apple is going after a sort of "unique" segment of the market. That is, consumers who are tempted by smartphones, because they want more than the limited capabilities of simple "featurephones", but don't necessarily want or like to use existing smartphones because of the complexities associated with Palm OS, Windows Mobile, Symbian, etc.

I was reading a review of the Palm Treo 680, for example, and they pointed out that Palm's stated goal with that particular phone was to "expand the pie"; that is, to expand beyond the standard market for smartphones, and make a device to appeal more to consumers who wanted better media playing capabilities, web browsing, e-mail, etc. than what they can get with a typical "featurephone".

But I suspect that Palm realizes that the kinds of consumers buying a Treo 680 might be less likely to learn about installing third party apps, etc. so they worked a lot harder to make the "out of the box" Palm OS experience as painless as possible.

I kind of suspect that this is more the market that Apple has identified with the iPhone as well. I know that Jobs directly compared it to other smartphones in his keynote, but I do think the attitude about limited third party development and ability to get third party apps on your iPhone, indicates that Apple isn't really looking for at least this iteration of the iPhone to actually be a suitable replacement for people who need the full capabilities of a Windows smartphone, a Treo, a Blackberry, etc.

I think Apple is looking at the people who buy a Treo or WinMob smartphone but primarily just use the built in apps, and are perhaps dissatisfied with the limitations of the kinds of apps bundled with them.

Of course, the iPhone pricing also puts it in a different category (certainly a whole different level than the $199 w/ contract Treo 680, $399 without), although I expect that will come down, just as other expensives phones have come down in price as they exist on the market longer.

But I do hope that there will be a good solution for third party development, and some fairly painless way for any third party dev to make apps easily available and installable. I agree that there's a lot of potential there.

But I don't think the iPhone is going to be a direct competitor for the WinMob/Palm OS business users (and I'm not so sure it would be even if Apple did try and take them head on, or made it a completely open unrestricted platform).
 
Your original reply about "1st iteration" makes sense. As a consumer product the iPhone is a clear winner. No question. As a business device, i think it will still sell well regardless of no 3rd party support simply because the pre-packed apps/UI look incredible.

As a 3rd party company, i'm unhappy that we can't share in the iPhone's success. I'll be following this phone closely.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net
 
Your original reply about "1st iteration" makes sense. As a consumer product the iPhone is a clear winner. No question. As a business device, i think it will still sell well regardless of no 3rd party support simply because the pre-packed apps/UI look incredible.

As a 3rd party company, i'm unhappy that we can't share in the iPhone's success. I'll be following this phone closely.

Anthony Carrabino
www.vistadb.net

Cool, and good luck.

Personally, one of the first things that struck me as soon as it was unveiled that the iPhone could be a great thing for interesting people in OS X development who otherwise might have no reason to look at the platform. So I also hope that sooner or later, Apple will realize the potential there.

I am also hoping that the stuff we've seen with the iPhone is just the beginning, and will be extended possibly to the iPod (seems like a no-brainer) and some sort of larger Mac Tablet kind of device. It could be a great platform for all sorts of interesting apps, etc.
 
Again ... there are going to be 3rd party apps. Apple just has to approve. And no, this probably wasn't Cingular's choice ... Apple is probably playing it safe because the FCC has regulations about letting any John Doe accessing the communication hardware. Apple might still need to figure out how to resctrict it, and if there's any holes in their security, it's better to play it safe.

And yeah, it was mentioned that the Email was POP/IMAP. And BTW the sites I go to the most don't have flash OR Java. In fact, I web browse on my Nokia 770 a lot, and it has no Java, and only has Flash 6 (so no YouTube) and I'm fine .. the large extent of the web is still just text and images.

So Palm's folks seems to be quite irresponsible to allow their customers to install whatever they want on it....
 
Just wait!!

Like every apple product there will be a second and maybe third generation of iPhones. Don't u get it!!?? Apple wants you to spend $500 on a 4MB iPod/phone with no third party applications and no 3G. How much you want to bet that a few months after the realise of the iPhone, a second generation will come with more space, and the ability to install 3rd party appl for the same price or cheaper!. Just wait a little longer and you will see. It will make all the people who got the iPhone in June wish they would've waited. What do u think??

--gideon

24" 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo 2 iMac
15" 2.15GHz Intel Core Duo MacBook Pro
Black 30GB Video iPod
Windows @ work, makes me appreciate mac @ hom
U. S. Air Force Recruiter
 
So Palm's folks seems to be quite irresponsible to allow their customers to install whatever they want on it....

Do you have any idea how many applications I've installed on Palm devices that everytime you launched them the device froze up. PLENTY.
 
Like every apple product there will be a second and maybe third generation of iPhones. Don't u get it!!?? Apple wants you to spend $500 on a 4MB [:rolleyes:] iPod/phone with no third party applications and no 3G. How much you want to bet that a few months after the realise of the iPhone, a second generation will come with more space, and the ability to install 3rd party appl for the same price or cheaper!. Just wait a little longer and you will see. It will make all the people who got the iPhone in June wish they would've waited. What do u think??

--gideon

No. The iPhone is the result of 2.5 years of R&D. I will not be made obsolete in just a few months. Yes, technology will get old, but so be it. I don't worry to much about the future, by the time you get the guts to buy an iPhone, I'll have been using mine for over a year. ;)
 
Do you have any idea how many applications I've installed on Palm devices that everytime you launched them the device froze up. PLENTY.

True, although part of that is because the Palm OS is a piece of crap (which is why PalmSource gave up dev on it, and Palm has hedged their bets by making WinMob Treos as well).

Either way, Apple's explanation that the concern is third party apps bringing down Cingular's network seems pretty bizarre, as there are no known third party apps for Palm OS, WinMob, Symbian, Linux smartphones, etc. that are known to have done this.
 
What I've seen so far really makes me think that Apple is going after a sort of "unique" segment of the market.

This has ALWAYS been the case with Apple.

They sense that a part of the market isn't satisfied with the products out there, and then they hone in on it. They define a market by the users and tailor a product around it, and not the other way around (which is exactly the opposite of how most people around here approach the matter).

You can see it with the iMac. You can see it with the iPod. And you can see it with the Mac itself.

Why people haven't realized this (after 20 some odd years), I don't know (ya think people around here would be smarter.....).
 
This has ALWAYS been the case with Apple.

They sense that a part of the market isn't satisfied with the products out there, and then they hone in on it. They define a market by the users and tailor a product around it, and not the other way around (which is exactly the opposite of how most people around here approach the matter).

You can see it with the iMac. You can see it with the iPod. And you can see it with the Mac itself.

Why people haven't realized this (after 20 some odd years), I don't know (ya think people around here would be smarter.....).

Very well put.

And you're right; thinking about the iPod, a lot of the people who criticize it do so because it doesn't have all the features that they want.... and they can't understand why [insert competing mp3 player here] doesn't dominate the market, even though it has FM radio, built in equalizers, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Personally I think Apple is on to something. I really think that Palm, for example, does not have the product to back up their ambitions (that is, to make the Treo 680 a device for casual users), pretty much because of the limitations of the Palm OS. And Windows Mobile doesn't really fit either.

But I think that Palm (and devices like the Samsung Blackjack) show that there is some interest among consumers for more powerful capabilities than normal "featurephones".

I think even with the limitations we know of with the iPhone, Apple is on to something by creating something that is more like a featurephone in being sort of a "controlled" platform, but more like a smartphone (or surpassing it really) in terms of having really powerful music playing, web browsing, etc. capabilities.

I think that the people who look at the iPhone and say "But my RAZR can browse the web, play music, read e-mail, etc." are kind of missing the point, much like the people who look at the iPod and say "but my [insert mp3 player here] plays music and can even do more than the iPod!".
 
Now, for the widgets, I was surprised to "not see" the yellow/white pages, since those are phone related utilities. I think they are more phone related then the weather. I hope 3rd party widgets aren't lumped in the "3rd party app" category.
 
Boot Camp For iPhone Will Be Essential To Include Pocket Windows Apps In The Mix

With all the sophisticated Pocket Windows applications out there already, Apple is going to have to offer an iPhone Boot Camp for Pocket Windows with the iPhone for it to become really popular beyond the base of Mac OS X users. :)
 
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