Apple iPhone Apps Coming, but Limited

[ki4pcm]

Major Deal Breaker!

I have looked at various smartphones as having the all in one devise appeals to me (didn't buy one waiting to see what the iPhone would be). I used my (old!) palm a lot - when I remembered to take it with me. My cell phone is always with me. I also installed quite a few 3rd party apps on it. For me to drop $600 + paying to cancel my Verizon contract early it needs 3rd party app support.

I understand they want it to "just work" as is expected with all Apple products - which is part of why I pay the premium rather than using Linux. However, 3rd party apps aren't limited on the Mac computers and shouldn't be on the iPhone either. If it is to truely be a smartphone, it needs apps, and many more than Apple could ever create or even think of! If people want to ensure that their phone never breaks, don't install the extra apps, as someone else said, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to.

Requiring Apple certification is also not practical. Sure, that will result in many popular apps being available, but not all apps are going to be used by the masses. An example: I am an amateur radio operator. I would like to install software that would take the position data (it's gotta have it in some form to meet E911 laws) and format it into APRS (automatic position reporting system) packets. Then, using more 3rd party software the data can be converted into 'sound' to be sent through the speaker cable to my radio which would broadcast the packet. Think telephone modem. I could also receive similiar packets from other amateurs and using the Google Maps api plot them on maps. This would eliminate lugging a gps, laptop, and possibly a tnc (radio modem) along when responding to emergencies. No, I am not expecting someone to develop this for me, I will do that myself. I only want to be able to put it on the iPhone without paying a lot of money for Apple to approve it as it would then not be worth the cost and hassle and I'd still be lugging the laptop. As the number of amateur that would have iPhones and download my app and pay for it wouldn't be that great, I can't imagine I'd recoup costs/time/inconvenience of getting Apple certification.

Now here's the solution: Apple allows you to sync applications onto the iPhone via iTunes. Since you are already syncing, all your data from the iPhone is saved. There can be part of iTunes that manages your software. If the new software doesn't work well you can resync after removing the app from that section of iTunes. If it completely hoses the iPhone, iTunes can 'reimage' the iPhone and sync your data back to it. As an added bonus, Mac users might be able to use Timeline to save snapshots and have a "return to last known good" type of option. Using iTunes to sync software does not mean you'll have to buy it through iTS either - you can import the same as you would mp3s not purchased on iTS. People who don't want or need 3rd party software don't have to install any, and Apple/Cingular don't have to support 3rd party software on the iPhone just as Apple doesn't support it on the Mac. Apple could also have the option of having your app certified by them and then they could list it on a website as "stable, works well, whatever", but to require it is just not smart.

I was sold on the iPhone before the keynote was over. I was a guarunteed sale, until the no 3rd party app/only approved 3rd party app thing came out. I love my MacBook because of the flexibility - it triple boots! - but without being able to install other apps on the iPhone I'll just dust off the old Palm and teach myself to carry it around or get a Treo. That said, the iPhone appears to have an amazing interface and I am still drooling over it. But if it doesn't function as a smartphone/pda, it's not worth the money to me.

 

[fastdrive]

KI4PCM,

You seem to be quite an intelligent/technical person if you can write that app. yourself. However you are probably not the person Apple is going after with their iphone.

As far as I understand this is not marketed towards the techgeeks or business professionals. I think this is marketed towards the style concious hip professionals. The support nightmares that Apple/Cingular would face from these people installing and bricking their iphones would be very cost prohibitive.

 

[ki4pcm]

Yes, I agree.

KI4PCM,

You seem to be quite an intelligent/technical person if you can write that app. yourself. However you are probably not the person Apple is going after with their iphone.

As far as I understand this is not marketed towards the techgeeks or business professionals. I think this is marketed towards the style concious hip professionals. The support nightmares that Apple/Cingular would face from these people installing and bricking their iphones would be very cost prohibitive.

You see, that is precisely what I anticipated. I expected that when the iPhone came out it would be a iPod/phone smoosh device that I would end up not having an interest in. Watching the keynote, it appeared to be a device beyond anything I imagined it to be, and I couldn't wait to buy one. It's everything I want and more, or at least it could be, and that is the very depressing part.

What Apple is best at isn't innovating the next big thing, it's taking an existing idea and bringing it to a big reality in a highly usable way that appeals to everyone from the tech geeks to the grandma's that had no idea what email was but now can use it.

Now with the iPhone they seem to have decided they are only targeting the masses and artificially crippling what could be, and the let down is worse than if it just didn't have the ability to be more in the first place.

I just don't buy that it would be a support nightmare - software has always been an at your own risk experience and 3rd party software has always been supported by the 3rd party. As I said, iTunes could even reimage the phone if needed, so even that support issue would be as easy as "put it in your doc, click file, click reformat iPhone, confirm/enter password/whatever"

 

[Stella]

Its sooo frustrating - its got a great UI etc, better than any phone ( GUI ) out there probably.

So close to the perfect smartphone, but they decide to lock it down too much and make it unappealing to the more 'power user'.

You see, that is precisely what I anticipated. I expected that when the iPhone came out it would be a iPod/phone smoosh device that I would end up not having an interest in. Watching the keynote, it appeared to be a device beyond anything I imagined it to be, and I couldn't wait to buy one. It's everything I want and more, or at least it could be, and that is the very depressing part.

 

[jhande]

KI4PCM,

You seem to be quite an intelligent/technical person if you can write that app. yourself. However you are probably not the person Apple is going after with their iphone.

As far as I understand this is not marketed towards the techgeeks or business professionals. I think this is marketed towards the style concious hip professionals. The support nightmares that Apple/Cingular would face from these people installing and bricking their iphones would be very cost prohibitive.

But aren't we 'geeks' also the ones in our immediate neighborhood who influence a lot of purchasing decisions, whether it's in the pro or consumer section?

Alt least in my case, I have heavily influenced both my company as well as family/friends re. MB and MBP, and would have also wrt the iPhone. Now... not so sure.

If we have a 'halo' effect of our own, and there are enough of us, why then 'anti-market' the iPhone? Apple aren't dummies, but I really can't figure them out here.

Regarding 'bricking' the phone, that *has* happened on other platforms, but rarely. Usually it is a case of something like "Please turn the phone on while holding the up button simultaneously. Then synch the phone". After 10-15 minutes phone is back.

I just don't know.........

 

[fastdrive]

It's everything I want and more, or at least it could be, and that is the very depressing part.

You knows that exactly what I thought when I married my wife, but it still does not mean that I don't love her and she's wonderful in everything that she does do

I look at the iphone the same way..its amazing in what it does, and I'm not going to turn it away just because it can't do the things I would want it to do.

Imagine how large, ugly and laggy the iphone would be if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it. I think a device like that is called a WM5 Device.

 

[ki4pcm]

You knows that exactly what I thought when I married my wife, but it still does not mean that I don't love her and she's wonderful in everything that she does do

I look at the iphone the same way..its amazing in what it does, and I'm not going to turn it away just because it can't do the things I would want it to do.

Imagine how large, ugly and laggy the iphone would be if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it. I think a device like that is called a WM5 Device.

LOL! Ok, that is cute.

Yes, the phone is amazing with what it does do. No arguments there. Where I partially disagree with you is that the phone would be "large, ugly, and laggy if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it." Yes, it would get bigger if they had a removable battery, but I didn't complain about that. What I asked for is that they simply don't artificially prevent something it already CAN do. Yes, install the right app or combination of apps and run too many at once and it will slow down, but so will a Mac Pro. That is the nature of computers, and even if they don't want to call it a computer, it is. So is my current phone that I paid $10 for from Verizon. And if it doesn't do what I want it to do, especially as a device I would have to pay $600 + contract for, then I can "turn it away".

 

[christian_k]

Java?

Whey don't they even allow JAVA apps?

Every modern phone now allows JAVA apps. I know it was very restricted on older phones, but on modern devices the size of an app is only limited by the space on your memory card and things like bluetooth com, network com, camera shots or even 3D graphics are possible now. Current devices even allow multple JAVA apps to be active at the same time.

I did vevelopment for JAVA phones myself and I tried buggy development builds on phones from SonyEriccson, BenQ/Siemens and Nokia and I never saw any of these devices crash or otherwise behave buggy because of errors in my code. Network/Bluetooth/Camera access is strictly only allowed on the users explicit permission.

OSX itself is a very stable platform. I don't see a way a JAVA app could make it crash or even prevent you fram making phone calls. It would also make sense, since Java is an official language for OSX development with full Cocoa support and it is even processor independent! So even a non X86/PPC CPU would be no problem !

If Steave doesn't even allow Java apps, it only has one reason: Money. Apple and Cingular want to make money for every download and for every exclusive license for 3rd parties. Thats all.

Christian

 

[troylanes]

Cowboy iPhone SDK

Ladies and Gents,

In response to Apple's lack of 3rd party application support for the upcoming iPhone there is really only one proper thing to do -- develop a 3rd party SDK much like the wine (winehq.org) project. I've registered iphonesdk.com where we, as a community, can start 'er up. Hopefully we can have a contest like the "boot windows on an intel mac" project and raise some money for the first working sdk with app loader. More to come and iphonesdk.com

Troy

 

[billyboy]

Its sooo frustrating - its got a great UI etc, better than any phone ( GUI ) out there probably.

So close to the perfect smartphone, but they decide to lock it down too much and make it unappealing to the more 'power user'.

Let's hear it for the massive majority non-power users who just want something that works out the box.

As usual, the few who would actually benefit from geekified phone options shout loud, but really, they dont even figure as a minor blip in Apple's radar. Much like the iPod developers never did get swayed by the demands for lots of add-ons, so the iPhone will stay cool and rock solid in its boring original condition, plenty good enough for 95% of their 100 million owners.

Of course, lots of good ideas come from the geeks, so maybe in a roundabout way, they will get their moment when Apple "invent" one of their good ideas and out it into the iPhone.

 

[Whistleway]

honestly, I was all for it. But if he's not gonna open it up for 3rd party software makers he's making it really hard for someone in my position to justify purchasing one.

Thing that drives me to getting a palm or windows pda phone is the ability to run medical software on it like epocrates or the washington manual. If those aren't gonna be to run on it, why would I really need one?

great post. this thingy is basically useless without epocrates or lexi-comp.

 

[dan-o-mac]

“You don’t want your phone to be an open platform,” meaning that anyone can write applications for it and potentially gum up the provider's network, says Jobs. “You need it to work when you need it to work. Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up.”

We love you Steve but the $#!t you spewing is getting ridiculous.

 

[Stella]

OSX works out the box and thats for Geeks too ( especially the unix part ). I don't see your point.

Anyway, your statement is very sweeping and incorrect - I know non geeks who put 3rd party apps on their smartphones.

SJ should have never compared the iPhone against other smartphones - its misleading. iPhone and smartphones are very different markets ( smartphones being more useful - due to the open platform concept ). ( Yes, SJ said iPhone is smartphone, but its too closed )

Let's hear it for the massive majority non-power users who just want something that works out the box.

As usual, the few who would actually benefit from geekified phone options shout loud, but really, they dont even figure as a minor blip in Apple's radar. Much like the iPod developers never did get swayed by the demands for lots of add-ons, so the iPhone will stay cool and rock solid in its boring original condition, plenty good enough for 95% of their 100 million owners.

Of course, lots of good ideas come from the geeks, so maybe in a roundabout way, they will get their moment when Apple "invent" one of their good ideas and out it into the iPhone.

 

[trellus]

iPhone is cool, is a phone+, but not a "smartphone"

I agree with Stella that the iPhone isn't truly a "smartphone", at least not in the traditional sense a la Symbian, Palm, or Windows Mobile based smart phones which allow 3rd party application support, and all have thriving third party software available, in fact.

On the other hand, I think it definitely has the potential to be very successful if it can give the 95% of consumers (that one user mentioned), the functionality they want in a smartphone: email, web browsing that actually works well enough to use on normal web sites, and superb phone and multimedia functionality, and all of the above with a highly usable UI.

Me, I'll stick to the "traditional" smart phones (like my Treo 650) for now. I actually use my phone as a PDA almost much as I use it as a phone (if not more), with a good deal of the usage being provided by third-party applications that will almost certainly not be available on the iPhone. (Interestingly enough, one of the third-party apps I use is highly cross-platform and is available on Blackberry, Symbian, Palm, and Windows Mobile -- so if iPhone had an open SDK, I would almost bet the farm it would be on there as well.)

 

[shrimpdesign]

Web browsing? Over 2G EDGE network? That's slower than dial-up. No Flash or Java? It's nearly useless for web browsing. E-mail? Google, Yahoo and .Mac only? So no Exchange, IMAP or POP? That's not e-mail.

This thing will be next to useless in it's current iteration at that price point. No third-part apps is just the topping. I wouldn't even consider it.

Again ... there are going to be 3rd party apps. Apple just has to approve. And no, this probably wasn't Cingular's choice ... Apple is probably playing it safe because the FCC has regulations about letting any John Doe accessing the communication hardware. Apple might still need to figure out how to resctrict it, and if there's any holes in their security, it's better to play it safe.

And yeah, it was mentioned that the Email was POP/IMAP. And BTW the sites I go to the most don't have flash OR Java. In fact, I web browse on my Nokia 770 a lot, and it has no Java, and only has Flash 6 (so no YouTube) and I'm fine .. the large extent of the web is still just text and images.

 

[shrimpdesign]

Hey, I got an idea! Let's all bookmark this and come back in 2 years.

Then we can submit it to digg and say "ha ha this guy thought the iphone would fail!" and everyone will chuckle as they read it on their iPhone.

 

[zimtheinvader]

...hmm so, no iNewton?

Time to wait for the "zaurus" (linux) smartphone I guess. Apple's still reeling and scared by the idea of releasing another device as ahead of its time and powerful as the Newton, apparently. Heck I would even take a newton with the same specs as the last gen, just with usb and SD card support...

Too bad, but didnt SJ say years ago that pdas weren't catching on anyway?

On the bright side, this is the über-rokr. On the dark side its way too expensive to be competing with the Razr, unless it was released on VERIZON!!! (seriously, we could use a sexy new phone instead of waiting for the sim-based hand me downs)...

 

[trellus]

shrimpdesign,

I don't think most (some maybe but definitely not most) of the people complaining about the lack of an open SDK are saying it will doom the iPhone. I'm personally in the camp that believes the iPhone is quite likely to succeed and do very well (and I'm rooting for it as an Apple fanboy), but I won't buy it unless it has sufficient third-party software available, or Apple bundles a Bible Reader with all the translations I use and a checkbook register program -- um, not likely. If getting permission to develop software for the iPhone is as tough as for the iPod (games), I doubt I will see the apps I use everyday on my Treo 650 available for the iPhone.

Also, I'm not sure I understood your comment about the lack of an open SDK for third-party software development possibly being "Apple playing it safe" because they're afraid of third-party software causing the device to violate FCC regulations -- because Nokia, Palm, and tons of Windows Mobile phone manufacturers all have to deal with FCC regulations and have a thriving market of third-party apps available for their phones.

 

[jhande]

You knows that exactly what I thought when I married my wife, but it still does not mean that I don't love her and she's wonderful in everything that she does do

I look at the iphone the same way..its amazing in what it does, and I'm not going to turn it away just because it can't do the things I would want it to do.

Imagine how large, ugly and laggy the iphone would be if it was set up to accomplish every little miniscule task that every INDIVIDUAL person expects from it. I think a device like that is called a WM5 Device.

No, that is what is called a Computer. Spec-wise, what is the iPhone....? Anything else is just crippling its potential

 

[AppleIntelRock]

Over and over people are hammering in that this phone is for the "majority" and not for the power user. Frankly, I'm getting sick of hearing about it. The Razr is a phone for the majority (most popular phone in the US) and it's price point as been $100-200 MOST of it's life. Not 500-600.

 

[Zadillo]

Over and over people are hammering in that this phone is for the "majority" and not for the power user. Frankly, I'm getting sick of hearing about it. The Razr is a phone for the majority (most popular phone in the US) and it's price point as been $100-200 MOST of it's life. Not 500-600.

We're just talking about who it is designed for. Not saying it is going to become the most popular phone, etc.

And also, this is Apple's first foray into the cellphone market. I think it is reasonable to assume that there will be other phones at different price points.

Remember also, when the RAZR first came out, it was also very high priced, and a very exclusive phone (to the point that it was kind of a status symbol, because it was so much thinner than other phones at the time, and people knew it was very expensive). It's only become more popular as the prices on it have dropped, and cellphone companies have pushed it because of the idea that now "anyone" can get it.

Comparing the iPhone to the RAZR is interesting, but again only if you remember the very high price of the RAZR when it launched, and that it was not an "everyman's" phone. The RAZR became that way because prices on it dropped, and it has become more accessible.

There's no reason to think that the iPhone price won't also drop and become more affordable. A lot of these phones that push things forward start out very expensive because they are in fact very expensive.

When I bought my Treo 650 a year and a half ago, it cost $450 WITH a 2 year contract. Now there's a Treo 680 (which is better, although still using the same stagnant Palm OS) which only costs $199 with a 2 year contract.

You can rest assured though that if Palm or Motorola were able to design a Treo or Q or whatever with the capabilities and UI of the iPhone, they would sure as hell also be charging $500 for them.

Either way, people are talking about the interface and functionality of the iPhone primarily when they say it is designed more for the consumer majority. The point here is to differentiate it from Palm OS or Windows Mobile-based smartphones which are definitely not designed for the average user (as much as Palm, etc. might want that to be so).

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Time to wait for the "zaurus" (linux) smartphone I guess. Apple's still reeling and scared by the idea of releasing another device as ahead of its time and powerful as the Newton, apparently. Heck I would even take a newton with the same specs as the last gen, just with usb and SD card support...

Too bad, but didnt SJ say years ago that pdas weren't catching on anyway?

On the bright side, this is the über-rokr. On the dark side its way too expensive to be competing with the Razr, unless it was released on VERIZON!!! (seriously, we could use a sexy new phone instead of waiting for the sim-based hand me downs)...

He was right though. The straight PDA market is practically dead; the only PDA's that anyone is even focusing on are Smartphones (Palm has given up on non-Treo devices, HP and Dell haven't been doing much with their Windows Mobile devices, etc.).

I would say that the one thing that the Newton does very well that the iPhone won't is really note-taking; but this was also the downfall of the Newton. The Newton had to be big enough for comfortable HWR, but that also made it too big for most people to carry around; they preferred PalmPilots, which were more limited, but could be put in even a shirtpocket.

Outside of note-taking though, this blows my old Newton (I had a MessagePad 130 with Newton OS 2.0) out of the water. I'd certainly love to see a newton-sized tablet with inkwell hwr and this same "mini os x", with the ability to easily put third party apps on it. That would really be about as close as we could ever come to the "Newton 3000".

 

[billyboy]

OSX works out the box and thats for Geeks too ( especially the unix part ). I don't see your point.

Anyway, your statement is very sweeping and incorrect - I know non geeks who put 3rd party apps on their smartphones.

SJ should have never compared the iPhone against other smartphones - its misleading. iPhone and smartphones are very different markets ( smartphones being more useful - due to the open platform concept ). ( Yes, SJ said iPhone is smartphone, but its too closed )

My point is that iPhone is a glorified iPod and primarily it will be a reliable multi purpose device. OSX is installed primarily for the benefit of Apple who know they can put in apps they can rely on. What they cant rely on 100% wont be going into the iPhone. iPod has been pretty much locked down, and so will iPhone, until Apple introduce software that they think the majority will benefit from, not what a relatively few enthusiasts demand.

 

[ManchesterTrix]

Again ... there are going to be 3rd party apps. Apple just has to approve. And no, this probably wasn't Cingular's choice ... Apple is probably playing it safe because the FCC has regulations about letting any John Doe accessing the communication hardware. Apple might still need to figure out how to resctrict it, and if there's any holes in their security, it's better to play it safe.

From this I can take it that you know nothing of how Phones, smartphones, mobile OSes, or programming for such devices actually works, yes? In that case, it'd be best not to speak on the subject. You are completely wrong about your assumptions.

 

[shrimpdesign]

From this I can take it that you know nothing of how Phones, smartphones, mobile OSes, or programming for such devices actually works, yes? In that case, it'd be best not to speak on the subject. You are completely wrong about your assumptions.

Well, I don't personally. But i've heard that most smartphones keep the OS on one chip, and the rest of the Apps on another. But it's been reported that the iPhone runs it's lite OS X off of the main memory, where everything else will go.

And I'm willing to bet that lite OS X is far more complex than Palm or Windows Mobile, and therefore might need some extra security feautres that Apple hasn't worked out yet.

But yes, for the most part, it's just a guess.