Apple iPhone Apps Coming, but Limited

[jhedges3]

Exactly what I was going to say. Who needs MS office apps when you can get Google Docs and SpreadSheet via browser. We need to start moving away from client-side apps to server-side apps going forward.

Anyway, most of the people complaining here are installing cracked 3rd party apps on thier phones anyway. The same people are complaining about Apple TV not being able to play their bit torrented pirated/ripped movies in divx. The same people playing pirated/copied games on the xbox360, ps2, DS, PSP etc...

Apple controlling 3rd party apps gives back what developers deserves...money for their creativity, time and effort! Good on Apple.

Why is it we need to start moving towards server-side apps and why is controlling third-party applications the right way to get us there?

People should be able to install, watch and play whatever they want. If that negates your or someone else’s existing business model you (they) should find a new one.

Developers should be rewarded for their creativity, time and effort, when it leads to applications that people, all things being equal, prefer to purchase; not because Apple has artificially supported them by restricting its consumers freedom to install whatever they please.

 

[voidptr]

Do you know if Cisco will work with someone else then to make the open one happen?

I don't. And realistically, the only companies with that sort of subscriber base right now are the cell phone companies. You still need the cell phone component to support roaming around town. I can get a voip backhaul and a wifi voip phone today, but it doesn't do me any good if it's tied to being within range of a Wifi signal.

I don't know what it would take to crack that business. Of all the current cell phone providers, Cingular is by far the most open, and even they won't take that jump. Verizon is even more dependent on the nickel and dime philosophy than Cingular is.

Apple has the phone, Cingular has the network and SS7 links, and Cisco has the VOIP solution. It's a real shame that they couldn't make this model work, because it's really revolutionary; and I don't think I can really give the idea a full explanation. It's an amazing thing if you can see it click.

 

[QuarterSwede]

I think the one thing a lot of people are forgetting about the iPhone is multi-touch. That alone makes this phone better than the Treo or Blackberry for me. I have to use PDA's at work all day and I have to say I absolutely HATE the stylus. It's totally worthless and impedes my productivity. I actually just end up using my fingernail most of the time because it's 10x faster than pulling out the stylus and putting it back a thousand times.

 

[harmless]

If data rates are actually cheaper than "voice" rates, why aren't the phone companies using VoIP themselves?

Um. They are.

Unless this is just price gouging or something.

Exactly.

 

[sishaw]

Who the hell cares? How many of your phones right now allow you program and install any app you want? This is a cell phone! Not a mini computer.

You can add programs to a Treo or the T-Mobile SDA and, I think, most other smart phones. Actually, I was an early adopter of the iPod and I'm familiar with thread 500. I have put many of the negative posts about the iPhone in that short-sighted category. However, unless Apple itself produces the variety of programs people need, this lack of 3rd-party software is a real mistake in my opinion. The whole great thing about smartphones is that you can run computing tasks on them...that's what makes them so powerful.

I might prefer to keep my SDA and see if there's eventually more of a plain wide-screen iPod with a nice big hard drive and the fancy multi-touch interface. That would rock as a really great iPod, forget the phone. Depends on what's actually included when the iPhone comes out.

 

[Rychiar]

who cares about 3rd party apps. Apple has everything of use covered here obviously. Do u really need more than webbrowsing. ipod, photos, email, sms, etc on a phone? Its a damn good value considering my ipod photo here was $599 and is nowhere near as cool or useful. Do u expect the thing tp run photoshop or something? lol

 

[jhedges3]

I don't. And realistically, the only companies with that sort of subscriber base right now are the cell phone companies. You still need the cell phone component to support roaming around town. I can get a voip backhaul and a wifi voip phone today, but it doesn't do me any good if it's tied to being within range of a Wifi signal.

I don't know what it would take to crack that business. Of all the current cell phone providers, Cingular is by far the most open, and even they won't take that jump. Verizon is even more dependent on the nickel and dime philosophy than Cingular is.

Apple has the phone, Cingular has the network and SS7 links, and Cisco has the VOIP solution. It's a real shame that they couldn't make this model work, because it's really revolutionary; and I don't think I can really give the idea a full explanation. It's an amazing thing if you can see it click.

Would the wifi/GSM transitions be tricky? I mean how would that work?

 

[giba]

Listen up Apple! If there's no 3rd party app I AM NOT GOING TO BUY IT!

There is no reason why 3rd party apps would bring down iPhone if it was engineered correctly. All other smartphones never have much problem with third party apps, and I believe Apple can do better.

Apple is selfish in that it doesn't feel the pain third party developer feel when their innovation cannot be turned into reality because of some artificial barrier imposed by them.

Applications, killer apps, are what sells device. And a worldwide developer ecology is better at innovation than a single company, however innovative it is. It's been proven over and over, in PC and on PDA.

As for those who argue this is only a phone, it is not. Apple said so exactly. That it's a combination of many things into a seamless user experience. Why then would the first screen of the device be a list of 15 applications, only one of which is phone, and the other one is iPod? No, it's not just an iPod or just a phone.

And for those who's afriad 3rd party apps would complicate usage. First of all, it's only for people who need those apps. Secondly, the fact that the main menu is a simple (and gorgeous) menu of apps makes the act of finding and opening up application more intuitive than on any smartphone out there.

 

[golfstud]

Cingular and the cell networks are money hungry

If anything, there's two apps Cingular doesn't want on this phone, and it's likely they'll keep everything else off it to keep it that way:
* A VOIP client so I can make voice calls without the cell network when I'm in wifi range.
* An instant messanger client other than the SMS app Apple already demo'd.

Agreed. Man if this was a SKYPE, ICHAT, AIM phone also,it would be a KILLER. Your cingular plan would be very low dollar..I would use the wifi to call at home and at the office, thus only needing the cell network in the car!

Before all the negatives go overboard...the phone is still FREAKN way better than anything I've seen..I'm a Treo user and it is OK, but this think just stomps it, even with the no third party apps rule.

However, if it has a full web browser it has to have java script, flash, quicktime, etc so there might be wiggle room for web apps.

Here are my complaints, well documented elsewhere, probably not a dealbreaker yet for me.

1. NO removable battery. This needs to be fixed--even Palm fixed this in the second treo..although I have a Treo 600 and it still holds a full day charge..but then again I charge it every night..usually I get 2-3 days out of it.
2. NO VOIP client. as stated above this would be KILLER.(and Cisco would REALLY SUE!!!)
3. Bigger HD space. Has to be flash, but if this thing gets to 30 GB we are golden. I can see third party drives that use the connector and attach to the back..but battery life..ugh.
4. Camera on front to use for video chat(see no VOIP)
5. Third party widgets. I see SJ's point on this, but 3rd party widgets don't bring down my Mac now..they never have. I use a widget to calculate drive space for DVvideo..this is the kind of stuff that would be killer to have in my pocket. This would be so cool to have a FANDAGO WIDGET, NETFIX, etc. ALSO, VLC to watch vids you just don't have time to convert.
NOW having said this the damn PSP has to have 'special' video too!
6. WIRELESS BLUETOOTH SYNCING in background...this is why I almost bought a new treo for the wireless(albiet clumsy) syncing. Having to use ITUNES to sync sucks...and this is a tip to the windows market that Apple wants to chase. Reason to call the thing IPOD w PHONE.

 

[Stridder44]

OMG This is terrible!!!! How can they lock the phone down like this! WHat next!? Their computers!?...oh wait..

 

[ricksbrain]

Widgets are Apple-approved. Third party development isn't exclusionary-- it just has to be Apple certified.

Third party development isn't out of the question at all. What Apple's saying is that any old crap is not going to show up there.

Well-designed software will be given room on the iPhone-- for a fee, of course. Would you want MS to throw any old crap on the phone? Not me-- I'd rather see their little programming hands held all the way by Steve, Phil, and whatever strong-arming software goons they hide in the Apple basement.

So much grousing here. Too funny.

 

[harmless]

A toy?

Yes. Besides being a regular phone of course.

Just because the iPhone, [...] doesn't do what you want it to?

No. Because it only does what Apple want's it to do.

I agree that eventually Apple is going to have to open it up to developers, but not at the beginning.

Great. I'll wait for that. (Might buy some real smartphone in the meantime though ...)

The iPhone may or may not fill the bill for me, but at least I'm going to reserve judgment until I can try one for myself.

Well, as I already pointed out, not being able to install any 3rd party apps I choose, is a deal breaker for me. So no further judgement required.

 

[imacdaddy]

This doesn't make sense to me.

If data rates are actually cheaper than "voice" rates, why aren't the phone companies using VoIP themselves? If it's actually cheaper, it would make sense for them to do that. Unless this is just price gouging or something.

(I am not familiar with the mobile phone industry.)

Another reason is wifi range is small and if you're moving you will be out of range and connecting betwen wifi sites will drop your call. Mobile Wimax should be able to solve this. Importantly though, you can't pin point your location in wifi network...meaning they can't locate you if you make an emergency 911 call on your mobile phone.

 

[Stella]

who cares about 3rd party apps. Apple has everything of use covered here obviously. Do u really need more than webbrowsing. ipod, photos, email, sms, etc on a phone? Its a damn good value considering my ipod photo here was $599 and is nowhere near as cool or useful. Do u expect the thing tp run photoshop or something? lol

Hmmm... how about:
ICQ, Yahoo, Msn messaging client ( The web browser may not support Java to use online versions)
Extra games are always nice
DivX - to play Divx's on ( or RealPlayer for example )
Application to reject / accept calls - blacklists - whitelists ( *very* useful )
An office suite - spreadsheet, word processor etc - always useful - without the need to use online versions
Adobe PDF reader
Dictionary / Thesaurus
Zip Manager
World Mate
GPS software - connecting via a bluetooth GPS device


Just to think of a few application types you'd find on a smartphone ( Nokia's, SonyEricsons et al )

So clearly, Apple does not provide every thing a user could ever need!!

 

[voidptr]

Would the wifi/GSM transitions be tricky? I mean how would that work?

The same way tower handoffs work today. If you're on the cell network and the Wifi radio finds a signal, it initiates a connection back to the voip gateway and asks for a handoff. You'll probably get a momentary blip in the audio as it re-routes, but it's certainly feasible.

It's certainly tricky, but it's doable.

The important thing that makes this so much better than having Skype on there (and still profitable for the cellphone carrier) is that I have one number that I'm renting from Cingular, and it works everywhere. Nobody has to call me differently if I'm in the office. I don't have to do anything differently. It's just a phone call with absolute true number portability. And it makes their buildout costs less if they want to extend coverage into urban areas and commercial buildings. You don't need expensive cell towers and GSM radios and limited channel bandwidth. In most cases, someone else will do the buildout for you, but if you can't get that, you run a T1 line and a ruggedized access point with a firewall that only allows your voip data back. You only need cell towers in places where you can't use shorter range higher bandwidth wifi.

 

[harmless]

Where's the need here, folks?

Well, here in Germany it will be *very* difficult to sell a smartphone, that can not be used as a navigational device. With a GPS receiver and *3rd party software*.

And I really couldn't care less, if it's to the benefit of Apple, what I want to install on *my* machine.

 

[golfstud]

why does the iphone have bluetooth anyway...???

I'm missing something...David Pogue said the IPHONE has to be docked to sync...so why would you need bluetooth in the damn phone anyways...wireless keyboard and mice??? LOL

hmmm

adding another feature that seemed obvious...buying ITUNES on the phone and syncing back to the computer...you can blame the damn record companies for that...remember APPLE has to deal with same SAME DIMWITS that Microsoft does...big stupid companies that think like the RIAA

 

[Stella]

The same way tower handoffs work today. If you're on the cell network and the Wifi radio finds a signal, it initiates a connection back to the voip gateway and asks for a handoff. You'll probably get a momentary blip in the audio as it re-routes, but it's certainly feasible.

It's certainly tricky, but it's doable.

Its already been done ( for example on the Nokia E-Series ) - roaming.

It'll switch between WI-fi, 3G and regular cell phone voice network.

 

[sbarton]

Exactly what I was going to say. Who needs MS office apps when you can get Google Docs and SpreadSheet via browser. We need to start moving away from client-side apps to server-side apps going forward.

Anyway, most of the people complaining here are installing cracked 3rd party apps on thier phones anyway. The same people are complaining about Apple TV not being able to play their bit torrented pirated/ripped movies in divx. The same people playing pirated/copied games on the xbox360, ps2, DS, PSP etc...

Apple controlling 3rd party apps gives back what developers deserves...money for their creativity, time and effort! Good on Apple.

Ok - go try Google Docs over EDGE and report back here....wait, you'll be dead by the time it loads...

Want to experiance web browsing over edge? Go fire up that USR 56k X2 modem you have in your basement and start surfing....you'll get the idea.

I've never used EDGE, but I have used CDMA and GSM for data and even email was a pain, and forget about surfing...even WAP was a PITA....I'm hearing 56-75k on a good day for EDGE...thats much faster, but still slow..I don't see the experiance being that much better, but I'll definaltey check it out.

 

[dan-o-mac]

I'm reading a lot of passion for 3rd party apps, but I'm not seeing any real examples of why Apple needs them to succeed. There's a couple of medical apps that might be important for doctors, but that's not a huge market segment anymore. Someone mentioned SlingPlayer which looks like a direct competitor to iTunes. Someone mentioned SSH and VLC which probably caters to an even smaller user segment than doctors...

Skype, I think would be great but politically tough for Apple.

Where's the need here, folks?

It's not about the "need" it all about what people "want". Do you understand that people don't want Apple to dictate what they want on the phone.

 

[imacdaddy]

Ok - go try Google Docs over EDGE and report back here....wait, you'll be dead by the time it loads...

Want to experiance web browsing over edge? Go fire up that USR 56k X2 modem you have in your basement and start surfing....you'll get the idea.

I've never used EDGE, but I have used CDMA and GSM for data and even email was a pain, and forget about surfing...even WAP was a PITA....I'm hearing 56-75k on a good day for EDGE...thats much faster, but still slow..I don't see the experiance being that much better, but I'll definaltey check it out.

Ok you're right about the speed. I was thinking wifi and 3G all along because I live in Asia. So the iPhone version for Asia (Rev C?) will be faster than rev A iPhone to be released this June.

Anyway, I'll just sit back and watch what will become of this phone when it releases. There will be 3rd party apps but will be QC'd to death by Apple and that IS a good thing.

 

[imacdaddy]

Its already been done ( for example on the Nokia E-Series ) - roaming.

It'll switch between WI-fi, 3G and regular cell phone voice network.

I have the E61 and the caveat of that is battery life.

 

[suneohair]

It's not about the "need" it all about what people "want". Do you understand that people don't want Apple to dictate what they want on the phone.

Don't buy it?

 

[Stella]

I have the E61 and the caveat of that is battery life.

Yes, it sucks ass! I get about 2.5 days on my E70 with moderate non voice usage. But I love it, absolutely.

---

It strikes me here that people who have never used ( enough ) /owned a smartphone are the ones who are wondering why anyone would need more applications on their phones.

Once you do start installing more applications you can appreciate how flexible the phone becomes - just like your computer. Without this ability the thought of a smartphone ( in this case, iPhone ) that cannot install apps becomes very,very limited appeal. Nice interface, limited appeal, limited functionality. Your better off with your current, expandable phone - sans the prettier interface.

 

[dan-o-mac]

Ok you're right about the speed. I was thinking wifi and 3G all along because I live in Asia. So the iPhone version for Asia (Rev C?) will be faster than rev A iPhone to be released this June.

Anyway, I'll just sit back and watch what will become of this phone when it releases. There will be 3rd party apps but will be QC'd to death by Apple and that IS a good thing.

The question is will 3rd party apps be QC'd to death or just be hand picked by Apple. I'll guess we'll just have to sit back and watch like you say.