Apple iPhone Apps Coming, but Limited

[ksz]

The question is how long it takes them to see that, or how long they're going to maintain a dying business model based on overpriced "special data" and trapping their customers in artificially inflated economies in a world where data and TCP/IP is quickly becoming a comodity item.

Well said.

I'll go further and hope that all major and minor metropolitan areas in the United States and around the world get blanketed by free/public WiFi and an abundance of VOIP/Skype phones. In that case I will most certainly cancel my mobile service and just rent cellular phones for those infrequent trips through the "boonies."

Seriously, cellular rate plans are a piece of $##%!@.

 

[RealMcCoy]

Are you arguing for the status quo, or are you arguing for better choices?

All I am saying is:

"I" decide what product I wanna go for. If a product like the iPhone comes available and it does not fit my needs, my financal budget or my personal preferences, I will go for one that will. And in regards to the cellular companies ... they will do as they please (if I like it or not). And if to many costumers of any carrier, feel they do the wrong thing or they are not the right choice they will change and the company will disapear ...

I use a european carrier (since I spend most of the time there) and unlike the regular system in the US, I always buy my phone and then pick a carrier I wanna use.

Skype or whatever VoIP System you like is a great thing (and I use it myself aswell) but if it is not available on the iPhone, I still get one (just for all the goodies that it already has). Besides that ... it is 2007 and my iPod does not look like the iPod I got back in 2001, neither does it have "only" the features of the my first iPod. Let´s see what the future brings for the iPhone. Maybe it will sell, maybe not. This won´t really be my problem ...

But if Apple really get´s 1 % marketshare at the end of 2008 ... boy this thingy will become quickly much more popular !!! And then of course also cheaper or at least upgraded in his technical specs.

 

[Jeonat]

I haven't read all this thread but here is my 2p.

No 3rd party apps is a real deal breaker for me. The iPhone is a mini-computer and you expect to be able to install the programs you want. Okay so Steve might be concerned about user experience and 3rd party apps mucking up the phone and dropping calls, but other manufacturers manage to make phones that support 3rd party apps that don't crash the phone. My M600i works perfectly with the many 3rd party Symbian apps I have installed on it. Is Steve so paranoid about the stability of his "mini-OSX" that he needs apps to be controlled by him?

Which brings me on to my next point. Controlled apps. This is just Big Brother mentality, someone said earlier about a developer certification program. This will be NO good for the end user. Why? Because Apple will refuse to certify apps that do the same things (but better, with more features, or more familiarity) as it's iApps. So you can rule out VLC, Adium, Skype and stuff like that. And I also seriously doubt that apps like Skype would be approved anyway because of the ability to cut down on the carriers' voice revenue. And don't say Apple isn't interested in that - they did an exclusive deal with Cingular for goodness sake!

This is turning into a lame duck product. I love the idea, I love some of the technical concepts but I think I will stick to my Symbian phone where I can do what I want on it!

 

[p0intblank]

I think it's better off this way. Let Apple handle the apps/updates just like they are with the iPod. All it takes is one bad app to screw everything up, especially on a phone...

 

[RealMcCoy]

still ...

No, I wouldn't. Go read my earlier post on why Cisco walked out of the deal.

Cell service is expensive, and cell companies used to sell cell service. And they think they still do.

But what they really sell is roaming access to the SS7 network. There's an incredible market for that with Voip becoming popular. Skype doesn't work when I'm in the middle of nowhere out of range of a Wifi hotspot. Vonage or my local telephone company doesn't work when I'm not home. Cingular doesn't work in the conference room in the middle of work, or at my house in the boonies.

Three ways to get a phone number and complete a call onto the telephone network everyone else is on. Only one has the infrastructure to work almost anywhere I am, but they don't have the infrastructure everywhere. I don't want 3 phone numbers. I don't want to deal with three different companies every month to stay connected. I want one unified network agnostic way to complete a call, whether it's over GSM when I can see a tower, or VOIP and Wifi when I've got that handy. And cell phone companies are in the best position to do that, because they have the hard part -- connecting while I'm on the road. Connecting while I'm within reach of an internet connection is easy. And when I'm near a TCP/IP connection, GSM is the worst possible way to get voice anywhere. It's expensive to deploy and maintain, and it's slow for general purpose data.

Cell phone companies are eventually going to either sell high QOS mobile voice and universal VOIP to SS7 access along with valuable mobile data, or they're going to get replaced by an upstart company who can. The question is how long it takes them to see that, or how long they're going to maintain a dying business model based on overpriced "special data" and trapping their customers in artificially inflated economies in a world where data and TCP/IP is quickly becoming a comodity item.

Honestly ... I look forward to that (no joke) ... but I tell you already that either the "right now" existing companies or "future" profit-orientated companies will come up with something "new" that will make you fall for there services, they are charging you for ! Or let´s say ... they will use a lot of promotional tools to make you at least think that you need it ;o)

 

[Macheath_Messer]

Let's not jump the gun, here

Well, I guess Engadget & Gizmodo had better let Apple know about their better judgment, and prevent Apple from even bothering to bring it to market.

The coming months will answer all our questions. 6 months is a very long time for things to develop for something that was an unknown certainty until Tuesday morning of this week.

Someone mentioned the fact the phone will be released about the same time as WWDC. I don't think that's a coincidence.

FWIW

 

[profoundmedia]

I have a feeling that most of the tech savvy people complaining here are mad because they have already bought a "smart phone". While the rest of us will wait and see what really becomes of the iPhone. Just my thoughts

 

[ksz]

I haven't read all this thread but here is my 2p.

No 3rd party apps is a real deal breaker for me. The iPhone is a mini-computer and you expect to be able to install the programs you want. Okay so Steve might be concerned about user experience and 3rd party apps mucking up the phone and dropping calls, but other manufacturers manage to make phones that support 3rd party apps that don't crash the phone. My M600i works perfectly with the many 3rd party Symbian apps I have installed on it. Is Steve so paranoid about the stability of his "mini-OSX" that he needs apps to be controlled by him?

Which brings me on to my next point. Controlled apps. This is just Big Brother mentality, someone said earlier about a developer certification program. This will be NO good for the end user. Why? Because Apple will refuse to certify apps that do the same things (but better, with more features, or more familiarity) as it's iApps. So you can rule out VLC, Adium, Skype and stuff like that. And I also seriously doubt that apps like Skype would be approved anyway because of the ability to cut down on the carriers' voice revenue. And don't say Apple isn't interested in that - they did an exclusive deal with Cingular for goodness sake!

This is turning into a lame duck product. I love the idea, I love some of the technical concepts but I think I will stick to my Symbian phone where I can do what I want on it!

Yup, I mostly agree (but I'm certainly buying one). Cingular is calling a few shots here. No VoIP on the iPhone is in the best interests of Cingular, but not in the best interests of Apple and the customer. Apple just cannot argue right now. Like RealMcCoy acknowledged, that's just the way things are. But Steve Jobs does not like the status quo in the cellular industry...there are indications he's been in a few arguments with these guys. Until the iPhone becomes a huge success, I don't think Apple will be able to negotiate different terms. But I am confident that Steve Jobs wants to change the stinking status quo.

 

[Macheath_Messer]

And who said that there won't end up being a good variety of 3rd party apps after a while?

Exactly how I feel about the situation right now, and I should think I'm just as qualified to hold such an opinion as the hand-wringers who have been posting.

FWIW

 

[jhedges3]

When is Arn going to rename this forum iPhoneRumors?

Here it is nearly the end of the premier Mac conference held once a year and guess what! Not one bit of interesting Mac news, updates, or new designed macs.

Instead we have dozens of lousey rumors on a vaporware phone that won't be released for 6 months. Not only that, the phone's name is in jeopardy, people are whining about the features, service plans, and 3rd party apps. Great!

People get a grip. It is just a phone and it hasn't even been made for sale yet.

Sad Sad Sad

Where has my "Apple Computer" gone? Where are the mac mini towers? Where are the new macbookpro designs, where is 10.5, where is the 8 core mac pro, where where where????

Please wake me when this nightmare is over!!

I can't develop and compile multi-platform applications on an iPhone. I can't edit and create HD DVD's on the iPhone. I am not going to use an iPhone for photoshop work. People can't design and render 3D animations on an iPhone.

Sorry but many of us who make a living with computers still need an 8 core MacPro.

I think your analogy is way way off. If a Mac Pro is a grass hut or cave. I sure wouldn't call an iPhone a modern house. More like a Mac Pro would be a castle or palace and and iPhone would be a nylon pup-tent.

I don’t know whether someone else did, but I never suggested you could, or would want to, do any of those things on an iPhone. But thanks for the reminder of a few of the things it wouldn’t be good for, which isn’t to say it’s bad for the things it was intended to be used for.

My impression was that you disliked that the focus of Macworld was on things that were of little importance, or use, for you. And you felt that it should remain as it was before, so that you could get your better cores and OS updates sooner rather than latter. While I don’t doubt your need for whatever you need, I don’t see why that should trump all else, and why it can’t wait a little bit more, and why Macworld can’t be the time for something new and something so many people have been waiting so long for.

Do you really feel that the hardware you need to do whatever it is you do doesn’t exist yet and you need Apple to release it now rather than later and therefore shouldn’t have focused so much on the iPhone?

I think your interpretation of my analogy is way way off. It’s not that Mac Pro is a cave or a castle and iPhone is a house or a tent. It’s whether your attitude is one that embraces change and the release of new devices, which may or may not revolutionize markets they’ve yet to get into, or whether you’d rather things stay the same, because you feel that staying the same is of greater importance or utility to you personally.

 

[RealMcCoy]

iNeed

No one really "needs" an iPhone but the ones that think they do ! People like me ;o)

 

[xDANx]

There's one problem with that, and it's strictly Cingular's fault. Shame on Apple for playing along.

Cell phone networks have the idea that instant messaging is "special data". There's phones out there now that support AIM, and they use SMS to do it, even when there's a data network available, because 10c per line makes incredible money for the networks, and treating data as data doesn't let them do that. AOL released last year a library to support third party AIM clients, and the license for it included a prohibition on using it to develop any clients for mobile devices, because AOL's already agreed to help the networks enforce their IM == SMS idiocy.

If anything, there's two apps Cingular doesn't want on this phone, and it's likely they'll keep everything else off it to keep it that way:
* A VOIP client so I can make voice calls without the cell network when I'm in wifi range.
* An instant messanger client other than the SMS app Apple already demo'd.

you hit the nail on the head...we can only hope that the iphone is a runaway success in spite of cingular (and the cell phone industry in general) and that apple can leverage that to break free of them all. for some reason that sounds so incredibly far-fetched right now...(sigh).

 

[ksz]

No one really "needs" an iPhone but the ones that think they are ! People like me ;o)

By that token, no one really "needs" anything beyond the basics. Capitalism is driven less by need and more by "want." The purpose of Marketing is to create that wonderful sense of want.

 

[ksz]

for some reason that sounds so incredibly far-fetched right now...(sigh).

That is called "vision"

 

[eightball0]

I have a feeling that most of the tech savvy people complaining here are mad because they have already bought a "smart phone". While the rest of us will wait and see what really becomes of the iPhone. Just my thoughts

I doubt it. I have an unlocked Nokia E70 which I'd sell in a second so I could put the proceeds to an iPhone that would let me run third-party apps from independent developers.

People like me who have smartphones see them as an asset that can be exchanged for cash quickly.

 

[Macheath_Messer]

Now, now, we're not going to gain market-share using that attitude. The "if you don't like it, go someplace else attitude" isn't a productive one.

What about the Chicken Littles running around declaring the iPhone DOA because Apple is being cautious about initial 3rd party application support? That is taking a productive slant towards this situation?

FWIW

 

[eightball0]

If you want to put a pre-alpha version of putty on your phone - get a Treo.

I've used pssh on my Treo with nothing but absolute success.

I can understand Apple wanting to 'guarantee' software quality. And there's always room for improvement with software. But let's not exaggerate her: all software for smartphones doesn't make it crash. After all, there's a very substantial market for it.

Would you want Apple to lock you out of software on your Mac? No. Why would you want it on a device you pay $600 for?

 

[silence]

Let me ask everyone here ONE question...

Does your Mac computer have any third party apps installed??

I, for one, rely HEAVILY on 3rd party software.. anything from MS Office, Adobe CS2, and Filemaker Pro to the small yet just as critical ones such as iAlarm and VLC Player.

Would you really buy an Apple if this wasn't possible???

Apple definitely make great stuff, but they really can't cater for all the different software options that people depend on... even with computers In fact, nobody can. That's the joy of having 3rd party developers around, to take your expensive hardware to the next level.

Can you imagine how bad PS2 would be if the only games avail were made by Sony??? PS2 succeeded so well due to the massive range of games avail, even if other vendors had better hardware.

Steve has done great so far and the introduction of the Intel Mac has put Apple in the right direction. Especially with Microsoft integration the business will grow even larger, because Mac users are now getting MORE options and MORE access to third party software and hardware.

I just really can't understand the logic in this one..

 

[dAlen]

Its simple...they dont want you using Skype, etc. for free...

Peace

dalen

 

[Macheath_Messer]

I've used pssh on my Treo with nothing but absolute success.

I can understand Apple wanting to 'guarantee' software quality. And there's always room for improvement with software. But let's not exaggerate her: all software for smartphones doesn't make it crash. After all, there's a very substantial market for it.

Would you want Apple to lock you out of software on your Mac? No. Why would you want it on a device you pay $600 for?

True, not all 3rd party apps cause crashes. But Apple isn't saying there will be NO 3rd party apps.

One thing not many people have brought up is complaints about service providers who cripple phones from their full potential right out of the box. Verizon is one company I've heard many complaints about with regards to this practice. Doesn't this crippling limit or "close" what you can do with your phone?

FWIW

 

[Macheath_Messer]

honestly, I was all for it. But if he's not gonna open it up for 3rd party software makers he's making it really hard for someone in my position to justify purchasing one.

Thing that drives me to getting a palm or windows pda phone is the ability to run medical software on it like epocrates or the washington manual. If those aren't gonna be to run on it, why would I really need one?

I would dig being able to run a Palm emulator. I would be able to run all my 3rd party Palm apps. Might seem stupid, but it could work.

 

[bretm]

So you'll be able to get word, excel, adobe reader, skype, etc, all the essentials, but not less successful apps by less successful developers.

My view: good for consumers (stops you from messing up your brand new phone by exerting free will). Bad for developers

NO. Noone ever said anything even close to that. Perhaps.

It isn't a freakin computer people. Noone ever said it was. His OSX point was simple... that it's running their operating system and that it's not a hardwired toy like these other jokes out there. That it's run on software and upgradeable. Geez, he never eluded to anything but it being ipod, web, phone. ipod, web, phone. ipod, web phone,, etc. NO COMPUTER. Good. I want a device that works. This does what I want, how I want it. I'll buy it for that reason.

 

[w00master]

I sometimes think that Apple (and specifically Steve Jobs) forgets the value of third-party developers. In the two "revolutionary" products that Jobs talked about, namely the Apple II (still my all-time favorite computer) and the Macintosh, it was really the third-party developers that MADE these products sell and what they are today. Don't believe me? What sold Apple IIs originally? Was it the design? Was it the 5 1/4" disk drive? Was it the genius Woz engineering? Nope, it was a little 3rd party app called VisiCalc.

Let's move on to the Macintosh. Many don't know this, but the Mac really didn't start selling well until the release of another THIRD PARTY APP called. Wait for it... PAGEMAKER. Before the release of Pagemaker, Mac sales weren't really doing so hot. You could almost say that Pagemaker "saved the Mac" (and Apple).

Which brings me to the iPhone. I sincerely hope and pray that Apple allows and makes it easy for ANY 3rd party developer to release their apps (I'm assuming here) on iTunes to install on the iPhone. I've been reading on this board about "Apple wanting to retain the perfect experience on the iPhone." Hey, I can respect that, but remember Jobs called it a SMARTPHONE. And yes, all Smartphones right now "suck," but because people can install 3rd party applications on these smartphones there's been an expectation already set. You can't go back on this, one of the basic definition of a Smartphone is this ability to install 3rd party apps. Let's just hope this "Apple Control" allows us to experience this in some way.

Also, they have GOT to have removable batteries in future revs of the iPhone. This (in my opinion) is even more important. People here have given the excuse of sending it off to Apple to get the battery replaced. Well, this is all well and good for an iPod, but definitely not for a phone. I wouldn't even accept this for a free phone with absolutely no frills. A phone is a needed asset for most people. Most people *will not* accept a week of waiting while a battery is being replaced on a PHONE. I hope that Apple addresses this in future revs.

w00master

 

[bretm]

No one really "needs" an iPhone but the ones that think they are ! People like me ;o)

Well, that won't be entirely true for long. Technology drives capitalism and science forward, but it also creates a perpetual "keep up" state. If all your competitors are using a a car to deliver pizza and you're using a horse and wagon, YES you do "need" a car. At some point, you will "need" an iphone or similar device to stay competitive.

Nobody really "needed" the internet. But they do now. Kids wouldn't be able keep up. Business wouldn't be able to target markets. Etc. If the competition is utilizing the internet to be more productive and in turn charge less, you NEED the internet too.

Nobody needed cell phones. Hey, we've got phone booths, right? And people stop when your car breaks down and help you out, right? Nope. Public phones are essentially a thing of the past and since everyone is expected to have a cell phone, nobody stops to help. Stores even look at you like you're homeless if you ask to borrow their phone. Used to be a common occurence.

 

[Macheath_Messer]

Its simple...they dont want you using Skype, etc. for free...

Peace

dalen

"They" being Cingular. They would be the ones to lose out were there to be a Skype client.