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Is your life so boring that you spend most of your time in "default locations"?

What jet-setting life do you have? I have a job, I go there and back every day. Maybe at night I'll go to a restaurant or bar or something. On the weekend I'll go to the beach, maybe see a movie, maybe go see a band play (again: Los Angeles). This is all within 20 miles of my home. Every now and then I'll go visit my folks who live 60 miles away. Sounds pretty typical to me, and easily covered by 2-3 default locations as a point of reference. Where exactly do I need to be going to not be labeled as boring?

Um, I'm not claiming that iPhone NEEDS GPS right now. I'm saying that in the future, just about all mid- to hi-end phones will have GPS, and iPhone will get it as well someday. That said, I could picture myself getting the current iPhone, and lack of GPS is not a big deal for me at this moment. But I do think that GPS will be very important in the future.

Here I agree, but I think you are discounting what is already available. I think many people will be totally floored by the google maps integration already on the phone. I doubt many of them are going to think "this is so totally lame... it doesn't know *exactly* where I am. So useless." Eventually GPS will become a standard for convenience, but it's not like a lack of GPS costs you functionality.

It's like cameras in phones. People wondered "what's the point?". And now, most people insist that phone must have a camera. Sure, it' not as good as a "real" camera, but it's always with you. OVer here people use them to take quick notes in lectures for example: just take a picture of teachers notes. Pople ue them as memory-aids when going to new places: take pictures of points of interest, so you can track where you were. Things like that weren't thought about when first cameraphones were releaed, but the cameras enabled all those things. Same thing will happen with GPS.

I'd say the camera on a phone is more useful than the GPS, because the iPhone DOES have mapping capabilities, just not fancy ones. It's more like having a crappy VGA camera-phone (no GPS) vs. a 3 megapixel camaraphone (having GPS): one is better than the other, but you are getting the functionality in either case.
 
I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but on the PR page it shows a picture of an iPhone among the other competitor phones:
picture1bi0.png


I wonder if that background is live updating or is just a simple wallpaper. It would be cool to have changing clouds (such as in the desktop app OSXplanet).
 
What I want is a Keynote viewer on the iPhone and an adapter to let me hook up the iPhone to the standard VGA connectors on overhead projectors. Then I just need to take my iPhone on business trips.

Oj yessss! Please. hat would be something I am dreaming of since some time. They should put Keynote on there. Would be bad if that would happen in rev 2 after I cashed out 500 or more...
 
I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but on the PR page it shows a picture of an iPhone among the other competitor phones:
picture1bi0.png


I wonder if that background is live updating or is just a simple wallpaper. It would be cool to have changing clouds (such as in the desktop app OSXplanet).

I've been using this background for a while. It's available here.
 
I think many people will be totally floored by the google maps integration already on the phone. I doubt many of them are going to think "this is so totally lame... it doesn't know *exactly* where I am. So useless." Eventually GPS will become a standard for convenience, but it's not like a lack of GPS costs you functionality.
Ummm, I think many europeans would disagree with you there... I am quite sure that Apple realizes that the European cellphone market is MUCH larger that the US market. If the phone fails over here, Apple will have a new Pippin.
GPS is a must in a premium phone. The only thing talking for the iPhone right now is the brilliant UI, everything else is subpar compared what is/will be out on the premium phone market at the end of the year.
If Apple isn't holding back on one or several killer functionalities, they better introduce a seriously revamped rev. B over here.
 
  • Twitter on steroids. Now you can know where all your friends are all the time.
  • GPS information embedded in the metadata of the pictures you take with your cellphone. Integrate with a photo site and Google Maps, and you have a cool Web 2.0 service. Or integrate with an automated photo album of your vacation.
  • Go out hiking, biking, or driving where you have never been. See something interesting, take a picture (and record the location), and then look it up when you get home.
  • Flying cross country and see an interesting land formation? Take a picture, record your location, and look it up when you get home.
  • Singles service. Enter your information and likes/dislikes into a service, and the map shows the general location of other singles with similar likes/dislikes in your area. Maybe add an anonymous "invite" message to the service ("Want to have a coffee at the starbucks on 3rd street?").
  • Every second record your location and then when you get home download it to your computer. You can build up a database of all your locations.
  • Record your location while running, and map your location and speed. Track peformance improvements.

Some of this might be cool with further development, but some of is LOL-worthy.

  • GPS Twitter: Like myself, it's a pretty safe bet where my friends are at any given time (work, hanging out at home). Why stalk them rather than actually give them a call and ask what they're up to. This also sounds really dangerous: not sure if I want people to know where I am at all times (not that I'm up to trouble, but I'm sure at least some of you go places your GF/wife would rather you didn't every now and then ;) )
  • GPS information embedded in the metadata of the pictures: fairly cool, but I think it would have to develop a little bit more. How do I get my DSLR pics tagged without manual input? It's cool in a "check this out" kind of way, but not a "everyday usefulness" kind of way. Interesting though.
  • Go out hiking, biking, or driving where you have never been: Again, I totally see the use here, but it just doesn't apply to most people's lives. I'd have to try really hard to hike or bike-ride anywhere remotely close to LA and not already know where I was while I'm doing it.
  • Flying cross country and see an interesting land formation: I guess, but how often is this seriously going to happen: a plane trip to somewhere new where you are sitting by the window and see a mysterious interesting thing?
  • Singles service: simply put: no ****ing way would I be part of something like this. Not in this town. These services would still need to develop, anyway.
  • Every second record your location and then when you get home download it to your computer: So I can see that I spend most of my time at work or at my buddies house? This would be cool on vacation, but not daily life.
  • Record your location while running, and map your location and speed. Track peformance improvements: my running route is usually pretty consistent (a few variations of the same basic path). My Nike-Sport kit does an okay enough job of keeping track of running stats. Not GPS accuracy, but my casual jogging doesn't require that. I definitely would avoid running with my iPhone ($600 is just to much to gamble, seems a bit too big for running). A lot of hardcore runners like the GPS running systems, so I see some value here for them.

Hopefully I'm not sounding too hater- like. My main point is that GPS is really kind of niche at this point. Most people only need general directions in fairly familiar locales, and the iPhone looks like it will handle this better than any non-GPS system currently in use on any phone. I guess I'm just trying to point out that "lack of GPS", which is commonly labeled as some huge con of the iPhone, is not really a big deal. Kind of like how lack of built-in FM tuning is not a big deal for iPods even though a vocal minority acts like it's the greatest feature omission in the history of man.

I'm actually kind of excited to go on vacation with the iPhone to see how usable the Google Maps will be without GPS in a more unfamiliar place. I'm guessing that setting my hotel as a default location will handle most of my needs, but I'll probably pine for the GPS if I decide to get really adventurous.
 
Oh sure now Apples leaking more info. Well most of us are already interested but there is still more info we need! Plan prices? 2 yrs or no contact? So many speculation. From what i've read on this and other rumor sites i'm planing to go to a company owned AT&T store the morning of the 29th and hope I'm on of the first 25 on line. Oh speaking of 'On-Line" this press release says you can get the iphone on the Apple site?! That's new news isnt it?
 
Scratch one use case....

  • Flying cross country and see an interesting land formation? Take a picture, record your location, and look it up when you get home.

Using radio receivers on planes is prohibited, especially GPS systems (after 11 September, they really don't want you to know exactly where you are...).

http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do...vent=false#How the Satellite Network Operates

"During flight, never use cellphones (to make or receive calls), two-way pagers, radios, TV sets, remote controls (example: DVD, CD, game, or toy remote controls), a cordless computer mouse, commercial TV cameras, or Global Positioning Systems."​
 
I will be interested to hear soon from real users about how long the battery will really last. since apple's benchmarks always has a 10~50% discrepancy with real-world tests.
 
For some people GPS could be very useful but you all are forgetting one major thing here - will the military let us all use the satellites to their fullest function? For those of you who don't know, the sats are pretty incredible in what they can do in terms of location. I know modern commercial GPS have been hindered by limitations put on by the military. It doesn't matter how great your web apps are if it takes for ever to acquire enough sats, limited location accuracy, reduced sat signals, etc. etc.

I had thought that those restrictions have been lifted. From what I have read SIRF III is the best Satellite Navigation system chipset currently available (commercially).
 
Ummm, I think many europeans would disagree with you there... I am quite sure that Apple realizes that the European cellphone market is MUCH larger that the US market. If the phone fails over here, Apple will have a new Pippin.
GPS is a must in a premium phone. The only thing talking for the iPhone right now is the brilliant UI, everything else is subpar compared what is/will be out on the premium phone market at the end of the year.
If Apple isn't holding back on one or several killer functionalities, they better introduce a seriously revamped rev. B over here.

Not to be Amero-centric, but I live in the US and the iPhone is a US-only product for the time being. I assume the version Apple will debut in Europe next year will be an updated version with 3G and probably GPS since it sounds like Europe is some unmarked travelling nightmare.

I think my opinions of an American phone used in America might be more representative than a European view of a phone that will likely be updated by the time it launches there. I think it's a bit odd to hate apple for making a product that isn't Euro-friendly when it is specifically not the Euro-version.

I'd also disagree that "everything" about the iPhone is subpar compared to current phones. Aside from the 3G and GPS, the iPhone is superior in many ways to any phone you can think up. Apples own chart points out many of the ways this is true. N95, for example, has a better camera and works with 3rd party apps but in America the 3G is crippled, the price is astronomical, and the storage capacity is limited to SD card capacity (currently 4 GB, which adds even more to the total cost of the unit). Similar pros/cons apply to other phones.
 
I had thought that those restrictions have been lifted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Selective_availability

"the amount of error added was "set to zero"[12] at midnight on May 1, 2000 following an announcement by U.S. President Bill Clinton,"​

From what I have read SIRF III is the best Satellite Navigation system chipset currently available (commercially).

It's SiRFstarIII, not "SIRF III". http://www.sirf.com/products/gps_chip.html
 
  • Twitter on steroids. Now you can know where all your friends are all the time.

I'll leave gross automated invasions of privacy to you young kids. I'm apparently too old to see the joy in any random stranger being able to look up my precise location at any time ...

  • GPS information embedded in the metadata of the pictures you take with your cellphone. Integrate with a photo site and Google Maps, and you have a cool Web 2.0 service. Or integrate with an automated photo album of your vacation.
  • Go out hiking, biking, or driving where you have never been. See something interesting, take a picture (and record the location), and then look it up when you get home.

This is an argument for GPS on cameras more than on phones, IMHO. Inasmuch as a phone contains a camera, it applies, but if I'm willing to live with a crap-quality photo I'm also pretty much willing to live with not having precise latitude and longitude. IMHO, I'm much more interested in GPS (and compass heading and pitch) auto-embedding in my SLR's output so that three years from now I can go directly to that spot where we happened upon an Osprey's nest and see what's there then.

But my cell phone? I guess I'm too old, again, to see the draw in taking any kind of long-term pictures with that crappy lens and sensor. And, short term, the GPS headings are rarely useful attached to pictures. If I'm traveling somewhere where I'm unable to navigate back (ie, where the streets are all unmarked or there are no streets), I take my pocket GPS for just such occasions. I can take a picture if needed, and I can record the GPS coords if needed. It'd be nice to have the two attached to each other, but hardly important.

  • Flying cross country and see an interesting land formation? Take a picture, record your location, and look it up when you get home.

Does GPS work when airborne? I thought GPS devices tended to lose accuracy dramatically with altitude.

  • Singles service. Enter your information and likes/dislikes into a service, and the map shows the general location of other singles with similar likes/dislikes in your area. Maybe add an anonymous "invite" message to the service ("Want to have a coffee at the starbucks on 3rd street?").
This seems to belong to thw uber-Twitter comment above. Perhaps not being single is the thing keeping me from getting over the loss of privacy here.

  • Every second record your location and then when you get home download it to your computer. You can build up a database of all your locations.
  • Record your location while running, and map your location and speed. Track peformance improvements.

Two tasks which are just as easily accomplished with an existing GPS device for the three people who would want to do that.


It all comes to this: GPS does precisely one thing: it tells you where you are. Automated GPS (ie, having GPS constantly recourding your travels) adds the ability to track where you've been.

Most of the time, adults know where they are with enough accuracy to get by, and the level of tracking GPS is able to provide isn't enough to tell me where I've been in my house in the last five minutes where I might have set down my keys. There are lots of "reasons" for wanting GPS and automated tracking, but none of them get anywhere near the threshold of "iller feature" to me. I'd rather see GPS in my camera than my phone, for instance.

That having been said, it's a lot cheaper and easier to add GPS to a phone than to a camera, primarily because, well, it's already there if you're selling your phone in the US. But, I wouldn't base a buying decision on it not being exposed.
 
What jet-setting life do you have? I have a job, I go there and back every day. Maybe at night I'll go to a restaurant or bar or something. On the weekend I'll go to the beach, maybe see a movie, maybe go see a band play (again: Los Angeles). This is all within 20 miles of my home. Every now and then I'll go visit my folks who live 60 miles away. Sounds pretty typical to me, and easily covered by 2-3 default locations as a point of reference. Where exactly do I need to be going to not be labeled as boring?

To play devil's advocate, though:

Where you WANT the google maps lookup is probably when you're not in those three "default locations". If you've worked anywhere for a decent period of time, you probably know all the decent "seafood" restaurants nearby, much better than Google does. Is Google going to tell you that one of them is a dive and infested with rats? Is Google going to tell you that the other one server $150/plate calimari when you're in the mood for a little fish and chips?

The only time I ever look things like this up in Google Maps is when I'm out of town and unable to ask around for restaurant (or other) recommendations. I don't need it between home and work and the relatives' house. I need it when I've just arrived at a hotel out of town and need to get something to eat, or when I'm halfway to our destination on a road trip and the two year old decides she needs some chicken nuggets and she needs them now. That's when there's more involved than just picking from a hand full of "default locations".

That having been said: I also don't think it'd take anyone more than, say, two minutes to program in their "current location" by looking it up and clicking a button. But, that is requiring more than just "working" as the GPS-advocates feel is vital.
 
"Hobbled." Nice buzz-FUD.

Why is it a joke? Because of the iPhone design itself. Yes, it is more "on-board memory than any phone on the market", but how many of those phones are selling themselves as a mini-media center, too? None... so they do not need the memory. But the iPhone is a phone AND the next gen iPod, one more optimized for video... and 4 gigs is barely enough to use that function. With no option to add more flash (like MANY other phones, btw), the iPhone is memory-hobbled. That is why I see it as a joke.

Let me make this analogy- sell a Television that only gets one channel... or a DVD player that does not play CDs. Maybe Joke is not the best word... but hobbled is.

One of the things that has me hesitant was the battery- I go through batteries on my phones like crazy. Someone above mentioned user replaceable batteries. I followed the link- I do not see that. For me, no user replaceable battery will be a strong disincentive to get this phone.

The lack of 3G is the other thing holding me back. GPS would be nice, but not the deal-breaker the other two are. Oh well, I still have 8 months w/t_Mobile, so I would not make the move immediately anyway. I am almost forced to wait for iPhone Gen 2... probably a good thing, I think!

As to the glass... good call. There is a VERY nice, scratch resistant and strong glass, used in high end aquariums and other apps that need non-distorting and no color tints... its called Sapphire glass (google it). I hope this is what they use- great glass, and will survive a 2-3 meter fall in most cases. I have a watch with it- simply a beautiful glass. Hope that is the glass they use.
 
Using radio receivers on planes is prohibited, especially GPS systems (after 11 September, they really don't want you to know exactly where you are...).

http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do...vent=false#How the Satellite Network Operates

"During flight, never use cellphones (to make or receive calls), two-way pagers, radios, TV sets, remote controls (example: DVD, CD, game, or toy remote controls), a cordless computer mouse, commercial TV cameras, or Global Positioning Systems."​

Not to mention, of course: the GPS, assuming it works, will tell you where YOU are, not where that interesting thing is. So, you'll know you saw something interesting on the ground somewhere in Kansas, but that still leaves a huge area to search in Google...
 
Where you WANT the google maps lookup is probably when you're not in those three "default locations".
Exactly, and anyone who thinks that a "default location" works well enough is completely missing the point.

Google Maps on the iPhone was meant to be a mobile tool for the traveller, not a gimmick for those who like to sit on their couch at home and randomly search for the the closest panda express - that's what a computer is for.
That having been said: I also don't think it'd take anyone more than, say, two minutes to program in their "current location" by looking it up and clicking a button. But, that is requiring more than just "working" as the GPS-advocates feel is vital.
I don't think so.

For example, if I'm driving through LA on my way to San Diego, and want a place to eat, I won't know my current location. ...I might be able to tell the iPhone "Los Angeles, CA," but LA is a very large city, and if I'm in west LA I don't want to drive to east LA for dinner. Instead, I'll want a place within a few blocks of the freeway - and for that to work, the iPhone needs to know exactly where it is.


I'm not expecting turn by turn directions (even though many cellphones already have this feature), but I definitely would expect a $500 phone to triangulate and locate itself on a map, and if it can't, the Google Maps feature is 95% useless.
 
Not to be Amero-centric, but I live in the US and the iPhone is a US-only product for the time being. I assume the version Apple will debut in Europe next year will be an updated version with 3G and probably GPS since it sounds like Europe is some unmarked travelling nightmare.

I think my opinions of an American phone used in America might be more representative than a European view of a phone that will likely be updated by the time it launches there. I think it's a bit odd to hate apple for making a product that isn't Euro-friendly when it is specifically not the Euro-version.

I'd also disagree that "everything" about the iPhone is subpar compared to current phones. Aside from the 3G and GPS, the iPhone is superior in many ways to any phone you can think up. Apples own chart points out many of the ways this is true. N95, for example, has a better camera and works with 3rd party apps but in America the 3G is crippled, the price is astronomical, and the storage capacity is limited to SD card capacity (currently 4 GB, which adds even more to the total cost of the unit). Similar pros/cons apply to other phones.
As I have understood it, the Euro version of is due Q4. Moreover, you cannot afford to make specific euro/american/aasian versions of phones. The phones that are are sold on the european market and the US are basically the same. For example, N95 is basically the same in Europe as it is in US.
Also note that N95 is already on the market, the iPhone isn't. By the time iPhone lands in europe both Nokia and SE will introduce yet another generation phones. N95 has a Zeiss optics, what kind of optics iPhone has is still unknown. Lacking GPS, 3G (N95 has 3.5G),MMS makes it subpar...period. I would love Apple to introduce a killer phone, but the iPhone as it has been presented just isn't it.
 
To play devil's advocate, though:

Where you WANT the google maps lookup is probably when you're not in those three "default locations". If you've worked anywhere for a decent period of time, you probably know all the decent "seafood" restaurants nearby, much better than Google does. Is Google going to tell you that one of them is a dive and infested with rats? Is Google going to tell you that the other one server $150/plate calimari when you're in the mood for a little fish and chips?

The only time I ever look things like this up in Google Maps is when I'm out of town and unable to ask around for restaurant (or other) recommendations. I don't need it between home and work and the relatives' house. I need it when I've just arrived at a hotel out of town and need to get something to eat, or when I'm halfway to our destination on a road trip and the two year old decides she needs some chicken nuggets and she needs them now. That's when there's more involved than just picking from a hand full of "default locations".

That having been said: I also don't think it'd take anyone more than, say, two minutes to program in their "current location" by looking it up and clicking a button. But, that is requiring more than just "working" as the GPS-advocates feel is vital.

This is basically my sentiment. Except as much as I would like to believe otherwise, there's just no getting around the fact that I'm in situations that you describe *very* infrequently. That's why no GPS can't be deal-breaker unless you're some crazy world traveller or hiking nut: by default, it won't be all that useful for a majority of your daily life.

I'm pretty sure some 3rd-party company will make a small GPS unit that plugs into the dock connector for the 1st gen iPhones (Kind of like the Nike+ transmitter). Not as nice as having it built in, but somebody could buy it and use it when travelling and not bother with attaching it for daily use. Seems like a good system for most consumers. Hell, I'd buy one before going on vacation just to test it out and see how useful it really ends up being. Anybody know what something like that would cost?
 
As I have understood it, the Euro version of is due Q4. Moreover, you cannot afford to make specific euro/american/aasian versions of phones. The phones that are are sold on the european market and the US are basically the same. For example, N95 is basically the same in Europe as it is in US.
Also note that N95 is already on the market, the iPhone isn't. By the time iPhone lands in europe both Nokia and SE will introduce yet another generation phones. N95 has a Zeiss optics, what kind of optics iPhone has is still unknown. Lacking GPS, 3G (N95 has 3.5G),MMS makes it subpar...period. I would love Apple to introduce a killer phone, but the iPhone as it has been presented just isn't it.

Your assumption that the iPhone won't be updated in any way for the Euro launch is just as valid as my assumption that it will be. Your N95 example makes the point perfectly: it has 3.5G for Europe, but not in America because it uses only the Euro bands. In America, the N95 and iPhone have the same date transmission speeds. I'm pretty sure you can't launch a phone in Europe without 3G so by default at least that aspect would have to be updated for Europe.

Apple is not a stupid company: they know that constant updates are the key to profits from the iPod, and this will especially hold true in the competitive cell phone market.
 
Your assumption that the iPhone won't be updated in any way for the Euro launch is just as valid as my assumption that it will be. Your N95 example makes the point perfectly: it has 3.5G for Europe, but not in America because it uses only the Euro bands. In America, the N95 and iPhone have the same date transmission speeds. I'm pretty sure you can't launch a phone in Europe without 3G so by default at least that aspect would have to be updated for Europe.

Apple is not a stupid company: they know that constant updates are the key to profits from the iPod, and this will especially hold true in the competitive cell phone market.
Ummm, are you absolutely sure that US doesn't have 3G?
When it comes to an updated version in europe, it is not very interesting what you or I think, but I do think we agree on that it will happen. However, the fact is that It must be updated or it will fail worse than Pippin. The phone is basically "old" right now and it will be even more noticeable when it actually hits the euro market. (Assuming the specs will be as presented)
 
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