Apple Issues Update Signaling iPhone Compatibility With AT&T's MicroCell

[MacNoobie]

What's there to prevent other people with 3G in your area from using your MicroCell like people stealing other's Wi-Fi that are not password protected? I'll be damned if I'm paying for OTHER people to eat up my broadband pipe.

The fact that once its installed and authorized its tied into your account and presumably to your 3G cell phone's IMEI number. Basically once you buy the microcell station AT&T binds it to your account thus either you have little if no back installation required (other then hooking up the device and making sure the green LED's come on) or you have to visit a configuration page in your browser to go ahead and input details about your account with AT&T. I believe the AT&T might even come with its own SIM card installed as to let AT&T know wether its a legit station or its been compromised (to which they can ban it if they need to).

The microcell connects to AT&T's end with an IPSec connection over your broadband line so theres not really a way for anyone to gain access and steal service from your microcell station.

 

[d21mike]

What's there to prevent other people with 3G in your area from using your MicroCell like people stealing other's Wi-Fi that are not password protected? I'll be damned if I'm paying for OTHER people to eat up my broadband pipe.

I hope AT&T prevents this. However, I called Verizon about their product and they don't. They way Verizon works is that you have to be within about 15 feet (or so) of the unit to "register" your phone and then you need to be within about 5000 feet to use it. So if a neigbor could linger just outside you window and "register" his phone then he can continue to use it from within his house. I told the Verizon guy this made no since. He said you can set a high priority on your phone but can't prevent other phones from using it. Maybe he does not know what he is talking about. Hope so.

 

[MacNoobie]

....can anyone tell me the difference between this and the long-existing UMA (unauthorized mobile access)? i've been using t-mobile's UMA system, initially called hotspot@home for over two years, making free calls at home or at any open wi-fi spot (or spots where i have the passcode) and abroad. READ: with the femtocell/ UMA system if you're making wi-fi calls the system, at least T-mobile's system, does not care where you're in the world and treats you as if you're in the US.

this is a very well known "secret":

1. free calls, in the country or abroad,

2. seamless transition during the call from wi-fi to GSM, all calls initiated in the wi-fi network, even if they continue on the GSM network are free (this does not work overseas-- the phone, in the US, sends a ping to the GSM tower while you're fading from the wi-fi network and negotiates the transfer of your call from wi-fi to GSM without you noticing it. overseas the phone still sends the request, but because there are roaming issues it cannot complete it quickly so your call drops if you leave the wi-fi network or lose connection. which is a great thing because this way you assure you don't pay international roaming charges.

3. no deadspots at home, etc...

at the initial launch this was a $9.95 a month a add-on, $19.95 for family plans. that is when i signed up. now it is $10 higher for each i believe.

simple wi-fi capability is not enough to work on this system. the phone must have the required hardware. that is the ONLY reason i did not buy an iPhone and moved to AT&T. i pay for a 600 minutes (used to be 1500 before UMA) per month plan plus $9.95 a month and get unlimited free calls at any wi-fi spot, here or abroad. you can't beat that with a stick...

t-mobile was the leader of this technology in the US. when it was launched the reaction from other companies was very hostile. but, for some reason, t-mobile did not really advertise this much (probably the realized, even though this is where technology is headed, does not make good business sense initially and will decrease revenues if widespread). sprint and verizon has knock-offs of the UMA system but they are not GSM operators, so it does not make much sense with their system. plus, with none-GSM operators, it doesn't make sense internationally.

now AT&T is finally offering, it seems to me, what has been available to us for over two years. or, if this is not UMA, i would appreciate if someone can tell me what the difference is...

i think what made t-mobile's UMA different (and hated by other carriers first and itself eventually) is the pricing: an add-on of $9.95 (for new signers $19.95) for unlimited calling in or outside of the country, as long as you're connected at a wi-fi hotspot.

for the person who said this would not be available in the UK-- actually orange has been offering UMA for a while in the UK.

finally, i am not a tech person. i just like the efficiency of UMA (and the cheapness). if you guys think what AT&T is offering is not UMA, i would like to know. the industry information on UMA is at:

http://umatoday.com/index.php

sorry for the rant but i wanted an iPhone ever since it came out but didn't get one only because i wanted to keep my T-mobile UMA system. now AT&T is finally about to offer its UMA system, if i am correct-- so perhaps we can even use the iPhone, if it is updated for the AT&T system, with the T-mobile system..

The difference is that AT&T's 3G Microcell is not UMA technology its simple a way of providing a micro cell tower that provides 3G signal in your home and binds the calls/data over IPSec to AT&T's end. The difference that I understand it is that UMA such as T-Mobiles deal was basically cell phone service over a "public" WiFi service. Yes you paid per month but the phone had to have WiFi on it and baring any technical hurdles (transitioning a call from WiFi to cell was a b*tch if I read right) it worked. This technology (in AT&T's micro/femtocell) is not UMA as the signal is the same 3G signal as the cell towers emit and can transition a call from a microcell to regular cell much better and easier.

Basically its just a way of plugging up weak 3G signal either around your home or in a specific part (aka basement).

 

[MacNoobie]

I hope AT&T prevents this. However, I called Verizon about their product and they don't. They way Verizon works is that you have to be within about 15 feet (or so) of the unit to "register" your phone and then you need to be within about 5000 feet to use it. So if a neigbor could linger just outside you window and "register" his phone then he can continue to use it from within his house. I told the Verizon guy this made no since. He said you can set a high priority on your phone but can't prevent other phones from using it. Maybe he does not know what he is talking about. Hope so.

I'd imagine once you ordered the unit and had it provisioned with your account details that no one else could "steal" your service. You could walk around the house using your iPhone but if someone else for example came in with another AT&T phone that it could "see" the microcell but not take advantage of it because the phones IMEI (serial number) isnt registered with the device/account.

It'd be stupid to allow access to the device/service from any phone simply by "registering" it. I believe the device is going to be provisioned for x number of phones in your account so if you have a family of 4 iPhones then those would be "registered" with the device. If you have 2 phones then 2 get registered with the microcell.

 

[MacNoobie]

people get mad because in many cases service is lacking in areas that it's promised. another reason is because att may charge a monthly fee for the microcell to run off of your already existing and paid for broadband internet connection, which is ridiculous! i'm pretty sure the concept of the microcell is widely encouraged by consumers but some of the details and overall business philosophy angers many people. att is essentially unloading hardware costs onto the consumer and on top of that charging a monthly fee!

Yes they are because presumably setting up a Node B takes absurd amounts of money to setup a tower. Heck even a picocell I'm sure takes up thousands of dollars to setup (provision a site for/ask landlord to set one up/establish routes back to the central office/provision the cell to have a order of preference etc). So unloading the burden of having a small 3G microcell/femtocell makes fiscal sense to the company as the signals in weak spots can be customized to your unique situation at your home.

I dont entirely agree with letting the customer bare the burden of having a cell traverse his or her home broadband connection (to which he or she pays for). I dont entirely agree with charging people for plugging up dead spots in 3G coverage. But its WAY cheaper to let the people that have crap 3G service be able to setup a box, plug it in and use their phones then to try and nag AT&T to establish another cell site to try and fix the deadspot.

 

[MacNoobie]

I don't quite understand all the negativity surrounding this. If you live somewhere AT&T only has a couple bars (or less) this is a godsend. Instead of waiting however many years for AT&T to fill all their blind spots, you can do it yourself. Unless the cost is exorbitant, I don't see why essentially running my own private AT&T cell site shouldn't be worth paying a few bucks for.

I'm not sure of the exact figures on setting up a cell site with provisioning but Node B (Those big towers you see high up with cell antennas) are of course going to be the most expensive. The next being those picocells that are often in urban environments, asking the buildings landlord permission, setup, installing, providing power and data lines to the central office, provisioning the new tower with "preferred" cell data when switching from this one to another on a cell phone all add up pretty handsomely.

I think its a good idea for individualized cell service, why wait for AT&T or whom ever to plug up a blind spot or poor coverage area that happens to be in your house when you can get one of these boxes, plug it in and (in theory at least) thats it.

It just empowers people to have their own microcell in their house (and generates additional cash flow for AT&T).

 

[d21mike]

It'd be stupid to allow access to the device/service from any phone simply by "registering" it. I believe the device is going to be provisioned for x number of phones in your account so if you have a family of 4 iPhones then those would be "registered" with the device. If you have 2 phones then 2 get registered with the microcell.

That is what I said to the Verizon Rep but he was confident (?) that you can't prevent other phones from using it. You can only tell the unit which phones get a priority. I am just hoping AT&T does it better.

In my view you should be able to tell the unit which phones can use it. Example: If I have friends and family that visit me I should be able to allow them to use it.

The very reason I started looking into this is because my wife and I visit her relatives which have NO SERVICE at there house. I did setup a WiFi Hot Spot there so that I can at least send and receive text messages (and other data type stuff) while I am there. Just can't receive and make phone calls. This would be very helpful for them and for "me".

The is no reason for AT&T to prevent me from allowing others to use the service that I am paying for.

 

[MacNoobie]

A special Microcell that I PAY FOR to make up for poor coverage in a major metropolitan area? Really? Ya know, I have been bitching about ATT coverage in north San Diego for months now. And the FIX...the FIX is that I buy a new device so my phone will work in my home? Really?

I believe in addressing the root cause: a lack of major cell coverage in my area that the CARRIER PAYS FOR. This is pure, bovine scat...the steamy, smelly kind that you try to avoid walking through....and as a consumer I object to it.

It does give the individual user the power to patch over the 3G crapshoot signal in their home or small office without waiting for AT&T or any other big name carrier to come up and lay down several thousands of dollars (probably 10-20k+ with provisioning and routing of cabling) worth of cell equipment to address the problem. Dont get me wrong I think its AT&T's deal to fix/patch over/whatever a problem area in the cell grid but I think the device provides not only pin point accuracy on possible weak area's (since the device has a GPS system capable of giving AT&T feedback on how many of these are installed in a given area) but the more obvious source of additional income for AT&T.

I still think the device empowers people to stop whining about poor reception at their home as they can patch it over. From AT&T's POV I'd use the GPS data from initial setups and cross reference it over the cell modeling I have of 3G coverage and see if theres any concentrations of microcells that go along with weak signals and use that as a basis to put in future cell towers. Will AT&T end up doing that? probably not its much easier to charge 5-10 a month extra + what ever for the device and have people "fine" with the 3G coverage in their own place.

 

[MacNoobie]

That is what I said to the Verizon Rep but he was confident (?) that you can't prevent other phones from using it. You can only tell the unit which phones get a priority. I am just hoping AT&T does it better.

In my view you should be able to tell the unit which phones can use it. Example: If I have friends and family that visit me I should be able to allow them to use it.

The very reason I started looking into this is because my wife and I visit her relatives which have NO SERVICE at there house. I did setup a WiFi Hot Spot there so that I can at least send and receive text messages (and other data type stuff) while I am there. Just can't receive and make phone calls. This would be very helpful for them and for "me".

The is no reason for AT&T to prevent me from allowing others to use the service that I am paying for.

I think the way the devices work Verizon/Sprint/AT&T is that authentication info gets passed onto the providers authentication servers thus you could register handsets with the microcell but each one would be smart enough to go under their own account. So if you and your wife have 2 cell phones 1 for the each of you then it would "register" with the microcell but at Verizon's end it would end up authenticated to your account(s). Same with your buddy "bob" coming over he could "register" his Verizon phone with the microcell and that one would fall under his account and he'd get billed for his minutes. As far as priority goes I'm not sure.. you could specify priority if other devices are running lets say your son's playing halo3 online with his buddies or your daughters Skyping for example you can specify Quality of Service I'm sure.

Beyond that I think the way it sounds like is this AT&T sells you a 3G microcell station. You plug it in and point it out next to a window so the GPS unit can know where you intend on using it and if it happens to fall within the US (taking it abroad would render the device useless). The device goes through downloading of any new firmware/settings from the maker (Cisco for example) and direct itself to your provider which happens to be AT&T. The device communicates over IPSec to AT&T's servers loading up any configuration/authentication information. Now heres the big ? for me if you then need to open your browser and input any account account specific info or at AT&T's end they keep track of the account(s) associated with each phone "registered" with the device. As long as you have a 3G capable cell phone then you can utilize the AT&T 3G Microcell station.

My guess is the device wouldnt be locked into account specifics (though it would be locked into one cell carrier) your usage/data/whatever info gets passed a long and sorted out at AT&T's facilities thus each "registered" mobile (provided its an AT&T micro cell and AT&T cell phones with 3G) can work with the device but get billed accordingly and independantly.

 

[Analog Kid]

it is meant in a circle because if it was going to be in the sphere it would be 5000 cb ft not 5000 square feet

seriously, if it was only 20 foot it wouldn't be worth at&t's time to produce, there wouldn't be a high enough demand for it.

Right, right... AT&T has finally managed to solve Maxwell's equations in 2D...

And SatanLover, you with the Sagan quote in your sig?: "For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Radio range is measured as a function of the surface area on a sphere (or portion of a sphere)-- which does happen to be measured in square feet, being a surface area. Besides, if it was cubic feet, the radius would be closer to 11 ft.

Of course, I don't really believe AT&T is trying to be scientifically accurate in their marketing, and I think the 5000 square feet isn't referring to a circle or a sphere, but the size of a fictional building this system would cover. Marketing gave engineering a spec: develop a cellular to landline bridge able to cover a typical 5000 sq ft building.

People will take the fun out of anything...

 

[Chicagomac08]

Confused

Updated via iTunes .. iPhone carrier version: 3.1 .. I have noticed I have 3G service at my desk now .. I havent had 3G at my desk since I got my phone last year ...

What is the iPhone carrier version update?

 

[SatanLover]

Yes they are because presumably setting up a Node B takes absurd amounts of money to setup a tower. Heck even a picocell I'm sure takes up thousands of dollars to setup (provision a site for/ask landlord to set one up/establish routes back to the central office/provision the cell to have a order of preference etc). So unloading the burden of having a small 3G microcell/femtocell makes fiscal sense to the company as the signals in weak spots can be customized to your unique situation at your home.

I dont entirely agree with letting the customer bare the burden of having a cell traverse his or her home broadband connection (to which he or she pays for). I dont entirely agree with charging people for plugging up dead spots in 3G coverage. But its WAY cheaper to let the people that have crap 3G service be able to setup a box, plug it in and use their phones then to try and nag AT&T to establish another cell site to try and fix the deadspot.

i agree it makes business sense but if they charge a monthly fee for the unit its going beyond that

 

[dave006]

What's there to prevent other people with 3G in your area from using your MicroCell like people stealing other's Wi-Fi that are not password protected? I'll be damned if I'm paying for OTHER people to eat up my broadband pipe.

I hope AT&T prevents this. However, I called Verizon about their product and they don't. They way Verizon works is that you have to be within about 15 feet (or so) of the unit to "register" your phone and then you need to be within about 5000 feet to use it. So if a neigbor could linger just outside you window and "register" his phone then he can continue to use it from within his house. I told the Verizon guy this made no since. He said you can set a high priority on your phone but can't prevent other phones from using it. Maybe he does not know what he is talking about. Hope so.

The AT&T (Cisco hardware) 3G Microcell Device is secure, it cannot be accessed by unauthorized users and it is has easy and secure online management of device settings.The 3G Microcell supports a maximum of 10 devices and up to 4 simultaneous voice or data users are supported.

Seamless call hand-over; start calls on your 3G MicroCell and continue uninterrupted even if you leave the building. Enhanced coverage indoors, supports both voice and data up to 5000 square feet.

Dave

 

[vvebsta]

Does this update benefit Gen1 iphones (edge users) at all?

 

[dave006]

Sorry no benefit for the original iPhone and no special benefit for the iPhone 3G other then the ability to display a TAG when a iPhone 3G is connected to an AT&T 3G Microcell.

Dave

 

[SFStateStudent]

Gawd, no one at AT&T can explain when or how to pickup a modem. They had no idea what it was, so I gave them the addy and they were like, "let me put you on hold, while we look at the details!" They said to call back tomorrow, b/c the website is under construction for a couple of days...

 

[dave006]

Gawd, no one at AT&T can explain when or how to pickup a modem. They had no idea what it was, so I gave them the addy and they were like, "let me put you on hold, while we look at the details!" They said to call back tomorrow, b/c the website is under construction for a couple of days...

Actually there are many people at AT&T that can explain when, where, how and even how much you will pay for the AT&T 3G Microcell but you can't reach them and even if you could they are not allow to tell you any specifics at this time.

You would have better luck with Cisco or even trying to get Apple to tell you about the next iPhone.

Dave

 

[Dreamer2go]

noob question
do I have to update this? will it benefit me at all? (I'm just a normal user that has 3G coverage in my home)

 

[SFStateStudent]

Actually there are many people at AT&T that can explain when, where, how and even how much you will pay for the AT&T 3G Microcell but you can't reach them and even if you could they are not allow to tell you any specifics at this time. You would have better luck with Cisco or even trying to get Apple to tell you about the next iPhone. Dave

Dave, WORD!

Those guys on the phone were scrambling to answer my question. It was like they were punching in all these codes on cypher locks and breaking the seal on top secret documents. They put me on hold about (6) times...

 

[MacNoobie]

i agree it makes business sense but if they charge a monthly fee for the unit its going beyond that

Ohh I agree I'd rather be charged up front and not have to pay for the device on a monthly charge. I know AT&T and either it will be a hefty $250/No monthly charge (which would sink adoption rates since 250 is a LOT of $$$ up front) or more realistically ~$150 + 5.99-8.99 a month.

 

[MacNoobie]

Does this update benefit Gen1 iphones (edge users) at all?

Nope you need 3G phones aka the iPhone 3G.

 

[AlecMyrddyn]

While I do see the great benefit to the MicroCell device for locations that have spotty or no 3G signal, I'm amazed that Cell providers are going to be able to get away with charging monthly fees for it...

1. We're saving them money by not using up connection(s) to one of their towers, and bandwidth from that tower.
2. The consumer is already paying for a broadband connection.
3. More and more Broadband providers are instituting monthly data usage caps, beyond which the subscriber has to pay for the bandwidth used. So in addition to paying a monthly fee to the cell provider, the subscriber may have to pay their broadband provider for additional bandwidth.

Despite all this, they expect us to pay for the privilege of saving them money? Nice work if you can get it.

Yes, they have to have some infrastructure built up that allows connections from these MicroCell devices over the public Internet. Servers, routers, large uplinks. But I have to believe that these resources are mostly already required for regular 3G services. The cost of allowing connections over the 'net instead of directly from the towers has got to be offset by the savings and the fact that customers are going to be happier with their connections while at the location that the MicroCell is installed...

Ah well, I suppose i shouldn't be surprised that the Cell companies are coming up with yet another way of taking our money.

 

[manhattanboy]

I hope AT&T prevents this. However, I called Verizon about their product and they don't. They way Verizon works is that you have to be within about 15 feet (or so) of the unit to "register" your phone and then you need to be within about 5000 feet to use it. So if a neigbor could linger just outside you window and "register" his phone then he can continue to use it from within his house. I told the Verizon guy this made no since. He said you can set a high priority on your phone but can't prevent other phones from using it. Maybe he does not know what he is talking about. Hope so.

AT&T and everyone else is hoping that others WILL use your microcell because it relieves strain on their broadcast stations.

 

[dave006]

The AT&T (Cisco hardware) 3G Microcell Device is secure, it cannot be accessed by unauthorized users and it is has easy and secure online management of device settings.The 3G Microcell supports a maximum of 10 devices and up to 4 simultaneous voice or data users are supported.

Seamless call hand-over; start calls on your 3G MicroCell and continue uninterrupted even if you leave the building. Enhanced coverage indoors, supports both voice and data up to 5000 square feet.

Dave

AT&T and everyone else is hoping that others WILL use your microcell because it relieves strain on their broadcast stations.

Please see my post quoted above; the 3G Microcell is secure. It is not like an open WiFi Hotspot. You will pay for any and all usage.


Dave

 

[GeeYouEye]

Let me get this straight... they want me to pay them to fix problems with their service which are their fault unless I have ridiculously radio-insulating walls?

What a crock. They should be paying me for setting up what amounts to a tiny cell tower in my home. They should be paying me rent.

When they're giving them away for free, and paying me for it, I'll consider getting one.