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Agreed.

I've wondered, if you were to "buy-out" your contract or say AT&T did something to void your contract, shouldn't your iPhone be officially unlocked by AT&T or Apple without future harm and with full support? The fact is we all bought the iPhone without incentives or rebates for signing-up. We all paid full retail price. I'm having a hard time coming-up with another consumer product that has this same arrangement, although I'm sure there is.

I had an experience with contract based phone service, it was repugnant. I asked them to kindly unlock my phone at the expiry of the contract (Siemens C56) and they said it would cost me an additional 300 dollars. Since then, they've lost me as a customer. They've more than recovered that 300 dollars in two years worth of profits, that's pretty greedy in my opinion. At least I didn't pay the full price of the phone, which in comparison to the iPhone, seems a bit less damning.
 
1. it's not illegal to unlock or possess an unlocked phone.

2. it's not illegal for apple to lock the phone again.

3. apple is under no obligation to support unlocked phones, or make sure any updates are compatible with unlocked phones.

4. it's not illegal to try to keep unlocking the phone.

This is the current situation in the US (other countries may play out differently). Neither side is doing anything illegal. But, just like "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit", the same goes for "if you unlock the phone, you're on your own". End of story.
 
What makes me so upset with this issue is that AT&T simply chooses not to serve the entire state of Vermont! I have no problem using AT&T, but they just won't let me! My only desire to unlock the iPhone stems simply from the fact that I want one, but AT&T won't let me have one, which is why I was so disappointed in Apple's choice of AT&T as a launch partner.

I'm going to hold out with my Verizon Blackberry for the two years it takes me to finish school up here, and then I'll make the switch. I don't have to have to deal with the risk of having to reunlock my phone after every update.

That is odd, why would AT&T not have wireless coverage in the state of Vermont?!?!?
 
I know I am stupid but...

I have to ask this question because I won't be able to sleep until I do. I have 4 ringtones from itoner on my phone, and since this is a SIM unlock issue, my iPhone will be fine right? I am just wondering if I should get rid of them before I update...

I would hate to end up with a brick because I wanted free ringtones... please don't yell at my stupid question, as I am ignorant of anything having to do with hacking...

Thanks!
Leanne
 
....
It's Apple's software you're messing with, if they want to go and change the section of code which is currently letting you unlock the phone then they can do so - there's no legal recourse to this as you're clearly breaking the software terms of use.
....
Please grow up and grow some bollocks. Apple are a business, a company. They're not there to pander to your wishes and desires, as much as people on here seem to expect them to.

'New Microsoft' my arse.

-Leemo

I fully agree
 
I have to ask this question because I won't be able to sleep until I do. I have 4 ringtones from itoner on my phone, and since this is a SIM unlock issue, my iPhone will be fine right? I am just wondering if I should get rid of them before I update...

I would hate to end up with a brick because I wanted free ringtones... please don't yell at my stupid question, as I am ignorant of anything having to do with hacking...

Thanks!
Leanne

I think any speculation at this time is just so much guessing.

My guess is it will be broken, then re-hacked within a couple of days.

That's how these things usually work.

It's not a stupid question, you just have to remember what is going on here.

If Apple decides to close some loopholes that allow hacks or unlocking or both, then the people who design and distribute hacks and unlocks will have to figure out what was changed and how to exploit any existing weaknesses that will allow them to control the phone again.

It's also possible Apple will change nothing in regards to existing hacks or unlocks.

It's a big game of who knows, but I think the safe money is on hackers and unlockers having some minor inconveniences but not a change of life event.
 
This is too bad, but not very surprising.

I just hope that Apple will get into some sort of conflict with the EU regarding the whole locking / unlocking issue.

The iPhone is a great little device; what a shame that one is forced to use horrible AT&T to have access to it. :(
 
Famous last words..

I'm gonna sit back and watch you cry tomorrow or Wednesday because your iPhone is history.;)

Yeah, we get it already. Why don't you put it in your sig and save yourself the trouble having to type the same thing over and over? :rolleyes:
 
customer care

Assuming that Apple's statements that this isn't intentional are true, then Apple has some serious customer care - catering for a segment they don't (make that can't) officially support.

Assuming that the conspiracy theories are true and the updates intentionally break the hacks, then forewarning the hackers is still kind of Apple.

Assuming that it's just FUD, then we'll know in a day or two and I don't think Apple would try a stunt like that.

Don't get me wrong. I live in a country without even an iTunes store so unlocking the iPhone is the only way I'd get one in the near (less than 6 years) future. Nevertheless, I take the announcement in good faith.
 
i dont see why apple really cares...its just AT&t which would...

apple sells more iPhones....= $$$$$$$$$$

apple shouldnt care is more money and marketshare

Apple gets a percentage of the revenues from AT&T. That was part of the deal. So, yeah, Apple cares a helluva lot if the phone isn't being activated and used on AT&T.

And therefore, as a shareholder as well, cut it out and use your iPhone on AT&T or we'll brick it.
 
Geesh!!! What a thread!

Three questions:

1. Was anyone out there forced to buy the iPhone? :confused:

2. Is there anyone out there that willingly bought an iPhone NOT AWARE of the AT&T contract? :eek:

3. Has a MacRumors News Discussion ever been WasteLanded? :rolleyes: :p

Oh - one more thing - when you applied the unlock, you had to be aware that it might be broken later with an update from Apple. I believe that those people that put them out made it very clear "that it could happen, and if it does then don't hold us responsible".
 
So my question is this: Is T-Mobile THAT much better/cheaper/etc to AT&T that it is worth:

1) going through the trouble of the hack
2) potentially bricking the iPhone
3) voiding the warranty
4) losing functionality (visual voice mail and other functions perhaps?)

Legitimate question... this is not a bash on anyone doing it, just really wondering if T-Mobile is that much better and worth the trouble?

In my case it is because AT&T has zero coverage where I live.

When I first got my iPhone (the day it came out I waited till the line dissipated and was in and out in about 5 minutes), I switched to AT&T... then I found out that I couldn't use the damned phone at home (which sucks because my mobile is my primary phone).

I grudgingly returned it to the Apple Store (and they were kind enough to waive my 10% restocking fee because it was an issue with the network).

I fell in love with that little hunk of metal and glass though, and I waited. I was going to wait till I move in February, but then the SIM unlocking crack came out so I went back, and bought a new 8GB (at $200 less than my first iPhone).

It was a pain in the ass to get the thing unlocked and to get EDGE working, but now I've got everything but visual voicemail (which is nice enough, but missing it isn't really a deal-breaker).

When I unlocked it, I was quite aware of what I was doing, and that Apple might relock or otherwise break the thing with a future update. That's not ideal, but I'm fine with being stuck at 1.0.2 until I either move and can switch to AT&T or the next SIM unlock crack comes out (which, even if the firmware is encrypted, I don't really expect to take all that long).

Legitimate answer?
 
Play It Safe...

I think it's a safe bet to play it safe here all the way around.

Most of this thread has been focused on the "What if's" regarding the update and SIM Relocking due to the explicit "Warning". I think if you have even "Spoof activated" your iPhone using iNdependence (Jailbreak), you should also play it safe and perform a software restore of 1.0.2.

Remember, even spoof activation costs Apple money as they don't get their AT&T cut. Don't be surprised that if you Jailbreaked your iPhone, you end up with a brick as well. I don't think this warning explicitly applies to SIM unlocking. If you read between the lines, I have a feeling this is going to jack a lot of iPhones that have been JAILBROKEN as spoof activation also screws Apple.

SO I HIGHLY RECOMMEND even those who simply "Jailbreak'd" their iPhones for spoof activation, SSH/SFTP, interface hacks, etc simply perform a 1.0.2 factory restore until we know more about the 1.1.1 firmware. If those with Jailbreak'd iPhones don't get bricked when 1.1.1 comes out, then you can simply return to using 1.0.2 having the piece of mind that you will be able to update to 1.1.1 and still use your iPhone.

Obviously Jailbreak is probably going to get disabled in 1.1.1, however, what scares me more is that if your iPhone has already been Jailbroken and even returned to Jail, if you don't do a factory restore, will you even be able to upgrade to 1.1.1 at all? I think a few days of pain with this is more than worth it to find out. I would rather have an operational iPhone that can be updated to 1.1.1 and wait for whatever new version of iNdependence that comes out that allows spoof activation in 1.1.1. It's constant roulette, even so, the next update AFTER 1.1.1 may hose your iPhone. At least until my Verizon plan expires this December, knowing the 411 on 1.1.1 is crucial to me.

The statement orginally released by Apple was a VERY COOL way of saying, we understand, we know what you did, you're a customer, just make sure you're straight before the update. I think this was insanely cool of Apple. They know they got hacked, but business being business, they have to do something about it and they are giving those in the proverbial "Know" a chance to play it straight before your iPhone is "Bricked".
 
"Apple has discovered that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed."

A guy in here hit the nail on the head earlier I think.

I think what Apple is saying is that they have tested the update with various SIM unlocking software and that some iPhones are simply going to be "Bricked" either way if you update your iPhone. It's a warning to customers who have SIM unlocked not to update (Until something comes along to allow the safe resurrection of your iPhone), but it's also Apple simply protecting themselves as previously speculated in this thread from an RMA nightmare. With 1 million + iPhones sold, Steve doesn't want any of them back if he can help it beyond what is considered alloted for based on current trend. Apple isn't going to spend a penny on someone's hacking jollies.

I still think the statement is vague enough to where Jailbroken iPhones, despite a completely different technical issue to moddified modem firmware, could still very well be at risk when upgrading to 1.1.1

Beware and restore to 1.0.2 for now until we know more, I think this is the safest bet. I am not a coder but understand something of it and can tell you IT IS possible so play it safe.

I will keep my mind off of my iPhone by running my arse out tomorrow and grabbing Halo 3!!!

:apple:
 
For those that do not understand firmware, firmware is software that resides in a chip on the main circuit board ....
correct...

The hack for the iPhone didn't just change the OS of the iPhone it rewrote that firmware...
correct...

Restoring the iPhone does not restore the firmware.
correct...

It is very possible that the hacked firmware may be unable to be flashed in the same way that the original firmware is...
WTF? My understanding of EEPROM/Flash-based ROM is that if it was re-flashed in the first place with a hacked firmware dump, then you theoretically should be able to just re-flash it again but this time with the "virgin" data assuming it was backed up during the "unlocking". Or you could use a different "virgin" unlocked phone and dump the firmware from that and flash your iPhone's ROM with that.

I keep requesting this and no one will reply to me:
Is there anyone experienced with EEPROM/firmware programming and know the details of this? Its seems highly unlikely to me that any modifications made to the ROM data to unlock the iPhone couldn't be overwritten with a re-flash with the original ROM data. Anyone know a way in which this might not be the case and therefore what Apple is saying can be correct???
 
At least in the states, AT&T's pricing is obscenely cheap compared to other data plans. $70 for 500/5000 UNLIMITED DATA 1500SMS??!? That's NOTHING.

Actually not really. If I had sprint it would be cheaper by about $20.
But nonetheless with Verizon's EXPENSIVE data access I have about the same plan as that you mentioned with unlimited data, but even better because it's great coverage and I even have 3G in my relatively small city.
 
In my case it is because AT&T has zero coverage where I live.

When I first got my iPhone (the day it came out I waited till the line dissipated and was in and out in about 5 minutes), I switched to AT&T... then I found out that I couldn't use the damned phone at home (which sucks because my mobile is my primary phone).

I grudgingly returned it to the Apple Store (and they were kind enough to waive my 10% restocking fee because it was an issue with the network).

I fell in love with that little hunk of metal and glass though, and I waited. I was going to wait till I move in February, but then the SIM unlocking crack came out so I went back, and bought a new 8GB (at $200 less than my first iPhone).

It was a pain in the ass to get the thing unlocked and to get EDGE working, but now I've got everything but visual voicemail (which is nice enough, but missing it isn't really a deal-breaker).

When I unlocked it, I was quite aware of what I was doing, and that Apple might relock or otherwise break the thing with a future update. That's not ideal, but I'm fine with being stuck at 1.0.2 until I either move and can switch to AT&T or the next SIM unlock crack comes out (which, even if the firmware is encrypted, I don't really expect to take all that long).

Legitimate answer?

It sure seems like you thought it through and know what you were possibly getting into. I totally see where your coming from, and would have possibly done the same. If you want it, you got to have it, and you got to make it work.
 
The majority of us are using OSX on MAC ONLY hardware yes? Do you also have an issue that Apple does not support you running OSX on anything but? What happens when they release a new update that attempts to thwart osx86 users??? How is this ANY different?

Absolutely different. Software is NOT A REGULATED INDUSTRY. Telecommunications on the other hand IS regulated (well supposed to be in this country, hence the FCC, but lately it seems otherwise). The US Government dictates the rules because they "OWN" the spectrum that they sell/lease out to the phone companies that then have exclusive use of the territory. They also regulate most markets including telecommunications to ensure competition and penalize those businesses who utilize monopolistic and anti-competitive business practices.

You act like this country runs on a completely unrestrained raw capitalism with no goverment oversight and regulation. (Well we have seen more and more of that lately, especially after electing the republican idiots to congress in '94 and you've seen the consequences of that with the USA becoming MUCH LESS COMPETITIVE in new technologies compared to the rest of the developed western nations. Any surprise? Thats what happens when you left companies, ESPECIALLY telecom companies get away with regional monopolies, anti-competitive tactics, blocking new companies entries into the market, etc.. )
 
Whats with these moronic comments?

You are not aware that you just proved my point? :)

Why should I feel sympathize with, or support your "need" for an unlocked iPhone when you are just some rich person that lives in three countries and has lots of gadgets (presumably just because you can), yet are too cheap to pay roaming charges and too in love with your iPhone to consider using a different one?

The whole "need" for an unlocked iPhone is way overblown and not really a need at all.

Whats with these moronic comments?
You are saying he's rich just because he lives part-time in different countries?? WTF? It's actually very easy to do when you have relatives living in different parts of the world, have parents in the military, or one parent lives in the USA and the other in a different country for work, or you are a college student studying abroad in different countries, etc etc. Have you even been out of the United States? Have you even been out of the state you were born in? jeeezus... The world is much smaller than you evidently think it is...

And NO, just because you live in say western Europe part of the year or for a year at a time DOES NOT MEAN you will handily afford a $350/month roaming bill from AT&T!
 
As for exclusivity of phones to carriers, it's a typical gig for the manufacturer to cut an exclusive deal with a carrier at rollout of a new phone. ... The typical Congressman complaining probably just wants an iPhone and lives in a zone not served by ATT. Tough. Welcome to a taste of the world you created for us, gentlemen!

I've already posted too much about this, but we all need to embrace this little teeny tiny "spark" that went by about the Apple/AT&T lockdown. Yes they did not start it, but the iPhone was one of the highest profile consumer product launches ever, and it did get the attention of some of our "allies" in Washington and there sure aren't many these days.
Just like the Anti-DRM issue got taken up and internet neutrality, people need to organize around more mobile telecom regulation so we can get rid of this lock-down bull***t, high prices, intentional crippling of hardware, and lackluster infrastructure upgrades.
 
this is a good thing. the more money they make the better the stock will do. Att&t has great coverage anyway and rollover minutes. Plus the rate plans for the iphone are really good. I don't see why so many people are opposed to switching. Isn't easier than having to hack stuff and unlock stuff, endangering your expensive purchase?

Well if you are talking about switching specifically in the context of the iphone and GSM networks, no there is not a real good reason to in the USA. However, MOST of the unlockers are NOT doing it to switch to Tmobile. Its usually for one of these situations.

1) They live in an area with terrible AT&T coverage

2) They live outside of the USA where they will not have access to a "legitimate" Iphone

3) They travel frequently out of the country and do not wish to pay $500/month roaming charges.

4) They use very little minutes each month and wish to use a Pay-As-You-Go SIM card.


If you are talking about AT&Ts coverage outside the context of the (the current GSM) Iphone, Verizon walks all over AT&T in coverage, and their 3G coverage can't even be compared with a straight face.
 
The main difference with Europe, as far I’m able to judge this, is the reason WHY phones are locked. When you sign-up with a telco over here, your locked phone is virtually free. Only the newest and latest models require you to pay extra. Of course ‘free’ means you don’t have to pay up front. You’ll pay it back through your monthly plan somehow. This would mean an 8 GB iPhone, with a one year contract, would set me back somewhere in the region of 85 Euros with a good monthly plan. That makes the locking somewhat more bearable, as you don’t have to pay the iPhone’s full price. And telcos are legally bound to supply you with the unlocking code after the contract ends. So yes, when the iPhone emerges in my country early next year I will get one for sure. I’ll stick with my current telco because the tariffs are fair and after one year I’m free to do with it whatever I like. The only thing that will spoil this if Apple are allowed to stick with the ‘one exclusive telco’ scheme. As the things are selling like hot cakes it seems Apple can do as they please anyway, there’s a great imbalance between supply and demand.
 
thanks for commenting...

I've spent 5+ years now decade working on flash devices (cable modems, TVs) and you can rest assured its pretty damn hard to have software mess up the hardware to the point where it is non restorable. Without technical details provided by Apple on exactly HOW the iPhone will be messed up by having it unlocked my honest gut instinct is this is a FUD move by Apple to discourage iPhone unlocking.

From a technical standpoint the only way I can see something bad happening is if the iPhone stores stuff in NVRAM (which im pretty much certain it does) which after the phone is unlocked causes issues with future upgrades. Having said that, any intelligently written restore program should nuke the NVRAM settings as part of the process which should easily allow for the phone to be recovered to its non unlocked state....


Thank you for commenting.. I've been asking for someone with more technical knowledge to comment. I'm no expert, but I've been skeptical since I heard this announcement that Apple overwriting the EEPROM firmware could somehow brick a phone which has had its firmware dumped, modified, and reflashed. Wouldn't the most likely scenario be that even if there was sum sort of checksum or something, that you can always just overwrite the entire NVRAM/EEPROM with the original data and get the iphone to "like-new" status? How would flashing firmware change something in hardware to actually break the phone???
 
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