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Apple: Jailbreaking May Still Void iPhone Warranty
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I know I won't be able to find it now, but I know I read some interview/article with at least one app developer with an app that phoned home to implement some part of the app functionality (not surreptitiously), so that provided him some metrics of paid vs. pirated numbers. Not actually remembering/linking the article doesn't really help here, but... er...
So you think people willing to pirate apps were waiting for this decision to start pirating? Now the real pirating begins or something?
All this decision allows is for an iPhone owner to continue to legally access the modding community to continue to upgrade and use hardware that Apple has abandoned. Many of the features that Apple has wrapped into iOS 4 are available to 1st gen iPhone users who can now legally mod their phones and add these features. In 3 years when Apple refuses to add features to the current iPhone, the exemption allows modders to step in and keep your iPhone useful for years.
Some people are still running modded Newtons. I can guarantee you your iPhone will still have cool new software written for it ten years from now, and you will be free to load it on legally.
Here's the thing, how come I don't see anybody throwing a fit when warranty of Android phones are voided when you rooted them? And Motorola with eFuse? I don't see people up in arms, and most actually praises the Droid X.
Because they're idjits.
I just want to comment that Apple clearly doesn't care about jailbreaking, except the issues it'll cause you. If they cared at all, they'd add two lines of code to the kernel to checksum some piece of software that is modified in the process, and if the checksum doesn't match, phone home and put your serial number on a blacklist.
The only way to get around this would be to find a new exploit to jailbreak so that the checksum on that specific file matches. After that, Apple decides to checksum a ton of files and finding a new hole that doesn't modify a file will be, to quote Scotty, "like trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet while riding a horse blindfolded."
To make it even better, Apple can start requiring you to update to the latest version of iOS before doing any warranty work. I don't think non-jailbreakers will find that too much to ask.
TLDR: Apple doesn't care what you do - they just won't support it.
The only way to get around this would be to find a new exploit to jailbreak so that the checksum on that specific file matches. After that, Apple decides to checksum a ton of files and finding a new hole that doesn't modify a file will be, to quote Scotty, "like trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet while riding a horse blindfolded."
To make it even better, Apple can start requiring you to update to the latest version of iOS before doing any warranty work. I don't think non-jailbreakers will find that too much to ask.
TLDR: Apple doesn't care what you do - they just won't support it.
I was commenting on an earlier post that had a statistic claiming 90+% of jail breaking is done to pirate apps. I was just looking for some real statistics.
Do I think this DMCA ruling will cause more jail breaking? It's hard to say. It's already ridiculously easy to jail break if you are so inclined. Maybe if some recognized software company offers the "Liberate your iPhone" program, and bundles it with Time Magazine along with a free trial of "Video Professor for iPhone"...
I am curious as to the piracy statistics right now (before this ruling has any effect.) But all I can find are individual developers who show 95% or 75% of their app downloads are pirated, and that < 0.5% of the pirates actually ever purchase the app. They also say it takes less than 40 minutes from the time they release an app on the Apple App Store, until it is cracked, and distributed through warez sites.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/piracy-and-the-apple-app-store/6007
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/10/28/iphone-app-claims-95-piracy-rate/
http://smellslikedonkey.com/wordpress/?page_id=274
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/iphone_app_piracy_reaches_450_million_doubtful.php
http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/29331/Ngmoco-laments-iPhone-piracy
EDIT: Just to clarify my point. I do believe these developers, but I'm not sure they represent the "norm". Sure someone with a 95% piracy rate is going to blog about it. Someone with a 2% piracy rate probably won't. Ergo, these stories are just individual data points, not enough to make any claims about what the true overall rates are.
Chip
Fine go put an after market "chip"/exu in the car. You just voided your warranty technicaly. Same diff and you got my point but wanted to try to argue it.
Fine go put an after market "chip"/exu in the car. You just voided your warranty technicaly. Same diff and you got my point but wanted to try to argue it.
I seldom, rather, close to never reply to posts. I've been reading this site for years, and only recently felt compelled to create an account.
This post infuriated me. Total bogus nonsense. I am a registered iPhone/iPad developer, with apps on the appstore, and have been jailbroken since my first iDevice, the iPhone 3G. I would say that 90% of the statistics made up by you Apple fanboys are bogus. I'm basing my labeling of you based on your signature, and the sheer number of Apple logos and products you own. Not that theres anything wrong with that.
If I was to hop on the statistics fabrication bandwagon, I'd wager again that the majority, perhaps the vast majority, of people who jailbreak their devices do not pirate apps. "A few here and there" is a ridiculous assertion. I realize your posts are your opinions, but I can assure you that a great deal of jailbreakers jailbreak for reasons other than piracy; be it for functionality or simply showing off.
I'm curious, do you know anyone personally who has jailbroken one of their devices?
Apple is required by contract to only allow American iPhones to run on the ATT network. Apple is required to autobrick an iPhone that detects it is running on a different network.
If you jailbreak to run on a different network, then you update your software removing the jailbreak, you will autobrick your iPhone and Apple has no responsibility to fix it. (They may have a contractual responsibility not to fix it.)
Just to make this point clear:
Depending on what you do, restoring the original firmware may very well brick your phone.
If I were Apple, I would randomly peek spots of memory. If I did not find what I was expecting, I would lock the phone.
Sorry if somebody else posted this, ahead of me, but I haven't time to read all the responses.
Exactly.
...but that's misleading, at least.
Clearly, Apple reserved for themselves the option of invoking DMCA violations 'to squelch the practice'. They even laid out their position on this, during the 2009 DMCA (trienniel) rulemaking process, by openly contesting EFF's request for an exception. In a 'responsive comment' filed with the Copyright Office, Apple said, in part.:
"Apple is opposed to the [jailbreak] exemption because it will destroy the technological protection of Apples key copyrighted computer programs in the iPhone device itself and of copyrighted content owned by Apple that plays on the iPhone, resulting in copyright infringement, potential damage to the device and other potential harmful physical effects, adverse effects on the functioning of the device, and breach of contract." *
Please note this was Apple's first (de facto, perhaps) policy statement, on the matter. At least one of the specific claims - copyright infringement (of bootloader and IOS) - is strictly related to DMCA. Their breach of contract claim is also DMCA-related, because it specifically refers to Apple's software license.
See EFF's analysis of Apple's 2009 statement, here.:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/apple-says-jailbreaking-illegal
=======
* This, after 4-5 pages of patting themselves on the back for their 'revolutionary', 'unprecedented', and (dare we say) 'iconic' phone. I'm betting that Fenwick & West, LLP, didn't get to be Apple's outside counsel without some serious sucking-up. ]
Exactly.
...but that's misleading, at least.
Clearly, Apple reserved for themselves the option of invoking DMCA violations 'to squelch the practice'. They even laid out their position on this, during the 2009 DMCA (trienniel) rulemaking process, by openly contesting EFF's request for an exception. In a 'responsive comment' filed with the Copyright Office, Apple said, in part.:
"Apple is opposed to the [jailbreak] exemption because it will destroy the technological protection of Apples key copyrighted computer programs in the iPhone device itself and of copyrighted content owned by Apple that plays on the iPhone, resulting in copyright infringement, potential damage to the device and other potential harmful physical effects, adverse effects on the functioning of the device, and breach of contract." *
Please note this was Apple's first (de facto, perhaps) policy statement, on the matter. At least one of the specific claims - copyright infringement (of bootloader and IOS) - is strictly related to DMCA. Their breach of contract claim is also DMCA-related, because it specifically refers to Apple's software license.
See EFF's analysis of Apple's 2009 statement, here.:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/apple-says-jailbreaking-illegal
=======
* This, after 4-5 pages of patting themselves on the back for their 'revolutionary', 'unprecedented', and (dare we say) 'iconic' phone. I'm betting that Fenwick & West, LLP, didn't get to be Apple's outside counsel without some serious sucking-up.
]Every time these threads show up, the jailbreakers show they have no real conceptual understanding of business or quality control. Its a simple concept really. There is a valuable part of a product called user experience.
Software+Hardware Synchronization=User Experience
If the user experience sees a drop, so do sales. These developers spend good time and money to create these applications for us to work flawlessly in iOS. If you aren't willing to pay for them, then don't buy an iPhone. Go join the rest of the Fandroids that think the open market with malware, memory leaks and no quality control is the way to go.
Software+Hardware Synchronization=User Experience
If the user experience sees a drop, so do sales. These developers spend good time and money to create these applications for us to work flawlessly in iOS. If you aren't willing to pay for them, then don't buy an iPhone. Go join the rest of the Fandroids that think the open market with malware, memory leaks and no quality control is the way to go.
nothings changed
so basically, people can jailbreak their phones, and if they have problems and need to go to apple for service they just restore before going. same as it's always been :/
so basically, people can jailbreak their phones, and if they have problems and need to go to apple for service they just restore before going. same as it's always been :/
"38% of Jail Broken iPhones run pirated apps"
One company, Pinch Media, sampled 4 million Jail Broken iPhones in 2009.
Of those, 38% ran at least 1 pirated app.
http://www.pinchmedia.com/blog/piracy-in-the-app-store-from-360idev/
So, much lower than the "hypothetical" 90% being tossed around in earlier posts.
As per the percentage of jail broken phones, it varies greatly by country, with China in the lead at > 35%, followed by Russia at ~25%, Brazil at ~20%. The three countries with the least jail breaking were USA, Great Britain, and Japan, all at ~5% each.
If anyone has other studies, please share them.
One company, Pinch Media, sampled 4 million Jail Broken iPhones in 2009.
Of those, 38% ran at least 1 pirated app.
http://www.pinchmedia.com/blog/piracy-in-the-app-store-from-360idev/
So, much lower than the "hypothetical" 90% being tossed around in earlier posts.
As per the percentage of jail broken phones, it varies greatly by country, with China in the lead at > 35%, followed by Russia at ~25%, Brazil at ~20%. The three countries with the least jail breaking were USA, Great Britain, and Japan, all at ~5% each.
If anyone has other studies, please share them.
That's the first thing I noticed about the press release too! Apple need to hire better proof readers!
Your interpretation is exactly correct in my opinion.
Unfortunately, for the record, you are sadly wrong about Apple trying to deny any and all warranty repair based on (in my opinion) faulty interpretation of their warranty and/or consumer protection laws.
My phone got wet. I dried it out. It worked perfectly. That was over 1 year ago. The hardware still works perfectly. The plastic of my phone later cracked and I took it into the Apple store while it was still under warranty. The first thing they did was check the moisture sensors. As soon as they saw it had gotten wet at one point, they declared, sorry, your warranty is void--before asking what caused the plastic cracking (an apple store employee had urged me to bring the phone in because, if the cracked plastic was a defect they would replace it). We chatted for a while so I could be sure I understand correctly. My ENTIRE warranty was void, in Apple's opinion, as related by its representative, because the moisture sensor had been triggered.
Forget for a moment, that the warranty does NOT even say "moisture sensor triggered voids your warranty" (it says damage caused by something something moisture/humidity/etc. is not covered). The fact is the man said, sensor triggered = warranty void. It does not matter what problem you have or what caused it. Warranty void. There is no way we can provide warranty support.
At least some employees of Apple WILL tell you that any violation of their written agreements with you will void ALL warranty support.
I will leave to you to decide whether this is a correct legal interpretation or, better yet, seek the advice of a lawyer in your jurisdiction if you have similar issues.
It's better than that. Once you get outside of China, Russia, and Brazil, the numbers go below 15%. And in the USA it's no more than 5%...bless our hearts. Check out the main chart.:
http://www.pinchmedia.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/slide071.jpg
Meanwhile, you have to love the irony of jailbreaking being investigated via unauthorized phone-scraping and automated call-home reportage. At least somebody has a sense of humor.
In other news, NSA announced the results of a multi-year, clandestine investigation by contractor Xe Services, LLC. Happily, fewer than 1.7% of US citizens make anti-government remarks during phone calls.
Apple is Anti-Apple Product User
This is one of the reasons that I chose an Android phone rather than an iPhone. AT&T is another reason. I like direct dealing with the software companies that I support by my purchases. . Why should Apple get a piece of every piece of software sold for the iPhon/iPod Touch/iPad? I've had a Mac since they first came out in 1984. My use of my Mac was made better because of my purchase & use of most of my other hardware & software coming from 3rd party companies.
Part of this control is the price fixing that is part of having only one source of software.
I like Apple hardware items & their OS X. I do not like most of their other practices. I am one that have purchased Macs in spite of Steve Jobs, not because of him. I still believe that Steve Jobs is a "used car salesman." Maybe a good one, but still a used car salesman.
This is one of the reasons that I chose an Android phone rather than an iPhone. AT&T is another reason. I like direct dealing with the software companies that I support by my purchases. . Why should Apple get a piece of every piece of software sold for the iPhon/iPod Touch/iPad? I've had a Mac since they first came out in 1984. My use of my Mac was made better because of my purchase & use of most of my other hardware & software coming from 3rd party companies.
Part of this control is the price fixing that is part of having only one source of software.
I like Apple hardware items & their OS X. I do not like most of their other practices. I am one that have purchased Macs in spite of Steve Jobs, not because of him. I still believe that Steve Jobs is a "used car salesman." Maybe a good one, but still a used car salesman.
With all the ev ilness of Steve jobs and apple, google is the only company that used the kill switch, google is the only company that sent a C&D to the hacking community. Go figure.
Poor comparison!
Sticking a fork in a toaster when the power is on has a very high probability of giving you a little shock. Jailbreaking in & of itself is not a dangerous thing. It is just the few applications that will do this. It seems like most of us are old enough to make our own decisions. Apple is still trying to mother us like with the first Mac 128.
Since this is your comparison I will give you a chance to come up with a comparable comparison. No wonder you are confused.
Not saying Jailbreak is bad, but
You can also stick a fork down a powered toaster. It's yours and do whatever you want with it.
Sticking a fork in a toaster when the power is on has a very high probability of giving you a little shock. Jailbreaking in & of itself is not a dangerous thing. It is just the few applications that will do this. It seems like most of us are old enough to make our own decisions. Apple is still trying to mother us like with the first Mac 128.
Since this is your comparison I will give you a chance to come up with a comparable comparison. No wonder you are confused.
Software on the app store ranges in price from FREE to ANYTHING a developer wants to charge for their work. What part of the expression 'price fixing' have you failed to understand before contributing this worthless post to the hundreds of other testaments to the prevailing ignorance of the children on this forum these days?
Nobody says the hardware doesnt support it. If that were true, it wouldnt happen. What lies are you imagining Apple has told here? Supporting and supporting reliably are not the same thing. Older hardware truly DOES have less RAM and CPU power.
Apple says it MAY harm performance and cause crashes. Thats very true. It may. App developers complain about jailbreak-caused crashes (which then make the jailbreakers rate the app low). These JB modifications use RAM, and RAM is very tight on some iOS models. So of COURSE there will be an effect from that. And Apple wont be responsible for solving those crashes if they happen. Why should they be? If Apple supported jailbreaking, it would be a nightmare from them. And Apple would get the blame for resulting problems (slowdowns, crashes). So if they cant please you no matter what, at least they wont pay the bill for your tech support
This makes perfect sense. If you can reverse your modification, Apple will never know, and your warranty is intact. If your modification is irreversible, then of course Apple wont spend time/money fixing your problems. Thats standard with any product. Take heart: many kinds of failures would result in a warranty swap before any kind of check is done anyway.
Apple has not said jailbreaking ALWAYS voids your warranty. They have said it CAN. What could be more fair? Should they say, no matter what, well promise to fix any problems with your self-modified system?
People have a knee-jerk reaction against Apple (well... against a lot of things!) with no need to stop and check the real facts and reasons
I support jailbreaking but I certainly wont expect Apple to spend time/money on me if I choose to ignore their warnings.
I agree completely. I'm not a "fanboy". I just think that apple has had the same position for a long time: If you jailbreak, and that causes your iPhone to have problems, then they might not fix your phone under warranty.