Apple Lambasts Australian Banks Over Call For iPhone NFC Access

[bpcookson]

Beyond basic security, which I don't know enough about to speak to, the important thing here is the user experience.

If banks are allowed direct access to NFC, which the customer can then only use through a bank's third-party app, then they should have to also offer support for standard Apple Pay from your lock screen through your Apple Wallet. Only then will the consumer have true choice in using the service they prefer.

I mean isn't that the problem? Neither wants to support consumer choice, they just want their solution to be the only solution. And they're asking courts to approve the anti-competitive behavior! Crazy! If forced to choose I'll always put my money on Apple thanks because at least they've got skin in the game when it comes to user experience; that's their bread and butter.

 

[amegicfox]

Apple criticize everything and everyone but I don't see anyone criticizing Timmy who is the first CEO in Apple's history that let the mac line outdated for year and years.

He keeps selling us overpriced and slow junk that is 4 years old.

Timmy needs to get fired and fast as well as the entire Apple board

 

[MH01]

For clarity the £30 limit in the UK is for ALL contactless payments EXCEPT where the retailer has full ApplePay, where the limit is set by the retailer's agreement. Retailers with full ApplePay display the ApplePay logo and IME the limit is your normal card limit.

Outside of Apple retail stores, who else has full card limit ? I thought it was just Apple

 

[bpcookson]

I just wish more retailers here in the UK would accept Apple Pay for £30 and over.

This thread is the first I've heard of this. Nothing over 30 pounds? That's so weird... I've used Apple Pay for grocery bills over $300 here in the states. It never even occurred to me there might be a limit.
[doublepost=1470826551][/doublepost]

For clarity the £30 limit in the UK is for ALL contactless payments EXCEPT where the retailer has full ApplePay, where the limit is set by the retailer's agreement. Retailers with full ApplePay display the ApplePay logo and IME the limit is your normal card limit.

Oh I missed this. Thanks!

 

[Nozuka]

Even holding the iphone to our timestamp device brings up apple pay.
But the user doesn't have to choose which application to start and that makes it fast and easy for payments.

bringing in other services would deminish that and add another step to do.

But i still wish we could use more of NFCs advantages.

 

[Roadstar]

If banks are allowed direct access to NFC, which the customer can then only use through a bank's third-party app, then they should have to also offer support for standard Apple Pay from your lock screen through your Apple Wallet. Only then will the consumer have true choice in using the service they prefer.

Well, if banks had NFC access, it would raise the amount of payment choices from 0 to at least 1 in many countries.

 

[Rocketman]

I used to sell card merchant services to retailers. It is common to negotiate the card service fee so it is entirely normal for Apple to use that lever to cover the costs of ApplePay.

Huh? Nonsense:

scupper innovation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scupper

"A scupper is an opening in the side walls of an open-air structure, for purposes of draining water. They are usually placed at or near ground level, and allow rain or liquids to flow off the side of the open-air structure, instead of pooling within the walls."

clear opprobrium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opprobrium

"Opprobrium, disgrace arising from exceedingly shameful conduct"

 

[Muzzakus]

I just want to swipe my CommBank Amex via the phone. Don't care how, just do it.

 

[John Mcgregor]

Al ******** aside Apple is right. They are scared of Apple Pay because they know where this is going.

 

[gramtrax]

How dare an existing monopoly deny the right for a new monopoly to exist. The nerve!!

 

[PBRsg]

Australians should be proud that some of their fellows still have enough backbone to stand up to Apple.

Opening up NFC would be beneficial all over the world, from wallets to ticketing systems to personal data exchanges.

Moreover, Apple is already simply hosting the secure payment applets written by the credit card companies. Their demand that banks pay a fee to let their own customers register with those applets is sheer greed.

I love Apple, but no other company that I know of monopolizes interfaces for their own products (Bluetooth for AirDrop, NFC for Apple Pay).

 

[SBlue1]

The banks have paid to install all of the nfc machines which are present in virtually every shop across the country. Why should apple be allowed to piggy back off the financial outlay of other businesses?

What?? The banks don't pay, the let the merchants pay big time fees to use the machines.

Using the banks' app in conjunction with touch ID and nfc would be fine.

Yeah, right, having to unlock and then search for that one app for each credit card I have. What an improvement to Apple Pay where one app has it all in the lock screen.

But really what it comes down to is cost. Would the banks pass on the extra fee apple takes to the consumer? I bet they would. Generosity is not generally associated with banks.

Apple takes lower fees than the credit card company using signature and even chip and pin. The credit card fees are high because they have to take the fraud into account. Apple Pay is safer so this fee is lower, and the credit card companies can charge less to the bank. So the banks don't feel any extra fees, depending on the terms they may even pay less.

 

[TallManNY]

Al ******** aside Apple is right. They are scared of Apple Pay because they know where this is going.

They should be. It is very secure and so freaking fast and easy that once you get used to it it will be your first choice as to how to pay. Apple might only be asking for a small cut. But that piece comes right out of the bottom line and it will make a difference to the Bank's profit.

 

[Brian Y]

The one reason why Apple pay is so good (IMO) is that it's so secure. If someone steals my phone, there's no way they can extract the credit card data from it. Not by taking it apart, nothing. Personally I feel that it's actually safer than chip and pin (they have a 0.3% chance of guessing correctly with that).

If you open up the reader to third party payment apps - you also open up some of the security/access control. These banks want to add their own cards without going through Apple - so they need a way to access the secure areas of the phone. And they'll probably want to do this via their own apps - and let's face it, most banks haven't even updated their apps to support the iPhone 6/6 Plus resolutions (what, 2 years ago now?). So how can we really trust them to manage this process securely.

In my opinion, as opposed to a monopoly - this is like a bank saying "thank you for offering to allow our customers to withdraw cash from all of the ATMs you've installed for a small fee. However, we feel that even though you bought, installed and setup the ATMs, we feel that we should be able to go in, load our own cash, and let our customers withdraw cash from them without paying you"

 

[John Mcgregor]

They should be. It is very secure and so freaking fast and easy that once you get used to it it will be your first choice as to how to pay. Apple might only be asking for a small cut. But that piece comes right out of the bottom line and it will make a difference to the Bank's profit.

Most importantly it's not free to create, support and maintain for Apple. I guess it counts as greed for haters. I imagine they work for free.
[doublepost=1470828518][/doublepost]

Beyond basic security, which I don't know enough about to speak to, the important thing here is the user experience.

If banks are allowed direct access to NFC, which the customer can then only use through a bank's third-party app, then they should have to also offer support for standard Apple Pay from your lock screen through your Apple Wallet. Only then will the consumer have true choice in using the service they prefer.

I mean isn't that the problem? Neither wants to support consumer choice, they just want their solution to be the only solution. And they're asking courts to approve the anti-competitive behavior! Crazy! If forced to choose I'll always put my money on Apple thanks because at least they've got skin in the game when it comes to user experience; that's their bread and butter.

There is no such thing as choice.

 

[Bob95]

Apple should just open the NFC chip in the iPhones, when I still had my Android phone I didn't need to get my wallet to make a purchase, I just got my phone out, hold it to the deviced, accepted the transaction, put in my pin if it was above I believe 25€, and it was done.

I gues Apple just also wants to make some money on this transaction, nothing more, for adding a NFC chip to the device. I have no use for Apple Pay, since I don't have a credit card, and don't have the intention of getting one.

 

[friedmud]

Two words: Apple Bank

Instead of wasting billions on the stock buy back... Apple should use its overseas cash horde to open an Apple Bank in Australia and cut out the middle man, while giving the middle finger to the existing banks...

 

[ErikGrim]

I have no use for Apple Pay, since I don't have a credit card, and don't have the intention of getting one.

Apple Pay is not limited to credit cards, hence the bank holdouts being the issue here.

 

[symphara]

True, but I'd bet that one side is a lot more concerned about end-user experience than the other. I've never met a banking app (from a bank) I liked.

I have, two. Raiffeisen and BCGE have pretty good apps.

 

[BlueParadox]

Australians should be proud that some of their fellows still have enough backbone to stand up to Apple.

Opening up NFC would be beneficial all over the world, from wallets to ticketing systems to personal data exchanges.

Moreover, Apple is already simply hosting the secure payment applets written by the credit card companies. Their demand that banks pay a fee to let their own customers register with those applets is sheer greed.

What absolute rubbish. If you knew even a little about how the 4 main banks operate here in Australia I guarantee you would readily change your mind. They have all but created a banking cartel, free to charge whatever ridiculous and excessive fees they wish to.

I have no idea why you think opening access of NFC to any party, particularly banks, is a good idea. Perhaps you should be asking why the banks are so determined in wanting this information? Like many people, I don't want banks to have access to this information, particularly as they are so keen to have it. I can assure you many to most people here in Australia are not at all proud of their bank (perhaps a few of the smaller and more competitive banks, but certainly not the of big 4).

No, you're just plain wrong about the financial reasoning of banks wanting to thwart Apple's minuscule cut on a transaction - for the banks it is all about having access to account owner's spending information and the like. They have it now to some degree and they don't want to give it up for Apple. Well done to ANZ for signing up.

 

[RedOrchestra]

For countries that have had contactless POS terminals for years and years, Apple Pay doesn't bring very much to the table.

The Aussie Banks have got Apple Pay in a head lock - want in, lower your transaction fee and we'll sign-up.

 

[RichTF]

The chip and pin and contactless is superior to my ApplePay to be honest. £30 limit on the ApplePay is ......very limiting .

That £30 limit is not ApplePay, it's part of the standard UK contactless setup.

If a UK retailer only supports standard contactless, then you can use ApplePay, but will be limited by the standard contactless rules. However, if the retailer fully supports ApplePay specifically then the £30 limit is removed.

It's all about ApplePay being an authenticated transaction, whereas normal contactless can be used by anyone who has your card (and the banks are liable for any fraudulent payments, so the £30 limit is their compromise for taking on that liability).

 

[AppleInLVX]

ahhh.....another 'opprobrium'......

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/opprobrium

I was wondering if this was simply Australian parlance, or if I was getting stupider in my old age. I had to look up 'scupper' too.

Meh. It's probably both things.

 

[RedOrchestra]

for the banks it is all about having access to account owner's spending information and the like - Apple does dick, they just provide you with another wallet.). They have it now to some degree and they don't want to give it up for Apple.

Banks still get ALL that information, after all they issued the CC and they process the transactions - Apple Pay just needs to lower their per transaction fee. Apple is who you should be lobbying.

 

[69Mustang]

Beyond basic security, which I don't know enough about to speak to, the important thing here is the user experience.

If banks are allowed direct access to NFC, which the customer can then only use through a bank's third-party app, then they should have to also offer support for standard Apple Pay from your lock screen through your Apple Wallet. Only then will the consumer have true choice in using the service they prefer.

I mean isn't that the problem? Neither wants to support consumer choice, they just want their solution to be the only solution. And they're asking courts to approve the anti-competitive behavior! Crazy! If forced to choose I'll always put my money on Apple thanks because at least they've got skin in the game when it comes to user experience; that's their bread and butter.

I think you misunderstand what's going on. The consumer will have choice when they can choose between the bank app and Apple Pay. The banks aren't asking for exclusivity.