Apple Lambasts Australian Banks Over Call For iPhone NFC Access

[insomniac86]

Interesting . I'm in Australia right now, using my Australian cards, but don't have access to my ApplePay (UK cards).

The chip and pin and contactless is superior to my ApplePay to be honest. £30 limit on the ApplePay is ......very limiting .

Nope, thats a UK limit.
I have both an Amex Plat and 3 ANZ accounts on Apple Pay. I can spend thousands in a single transaction.
Chip and PIN via our cards is exactly the same as using Apple Pay from a user experience (expect the cards are less secure).

 

[fischersd]

The staff should have tacked this on as an update to the existing thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...over-mobile-payment-app-restrictions.1984762/

We really didn't need another thread to debate this same topic all over again.

 

[insomniac86]

Banks still get ALL that information, after all they issued the CC and they process the transactions - Apple Pay just needs to lower their per transaction fee. Apple is who you should be lobbying.

Incorrect. When using Apple Pay the bank can't see the item details which were purchased. Just where and the value. When using visa/mastercard directly they receive details on the items themselves which were purchased.

 

[John Mcgregor]

Incorrect. When using Apple Pay the bank can't see the item details which were purchased. Just where and the value. When using visa/mastercard directly they receive details on the items themselves which were purchased.

So in general it's a Google problem.

 

[BlueParadox]

I gues Apple just also wants to make some money on this transaction, nothing more, for adding a NFC chip to the device.

Actually, no - the fees Apple are asking for are extremely small and will in fact save the banks millions of dollars a year by preventing fraud and stolen credit cards usage.

 

[DMH0630]

If this is allowed it means pretty much every bank will have an app and we'll lose integration with iOS.

 

[__dontpanic__]

I just want to swipe my CommBank Amex via the phone. Don't care how, just do it.

You could always switch to Android

As much as I love my Macs, I really dig Android's openess in this regard. I can use my CommBank cards via the superb CommBank app, and my ANZ cards via the Android Pay app. Plenty of choice.

I find it a bit rich for Apple to suggest that keeping their NFC locked down somehow helps competition - all it does is funnel everyone through their payment system to generate more revenue for them. If anything, it's highly anti-competitive. Not that the banks are any better though.

 

[RedOrchestra]

When using visa/mastercard directly they receive details on the items themselves which were purchased.

Are you saying that they get a complete breakdown of my grocery store bill rather than the TOTAL. You might want to rethink what you said.

 

[Waughy]

Ditched NAB for ANZ, and have no regrets. Their online banking, and iOS apps are much better than NAB.
I use Apple pay on my phone and watch for everything where I can. So far it's been flawless, where I can use it anyway. There's still a few places that are sticking to the old machines that don't offer contactless payments, which also means I can't leave the card at home, just yet.

 

[RedOrchestra]

Actually, no - the fees Apple are asking for are extremely small and will in fact save the banks millions of dollars a year by preventing fraud and stolen credit cards usage.

The fraud rate, since going to contactless pay cards, has dropped considerably. What's the penetration of iPhone 6 and above phones vs the tap and goers now ... that would save them that much more?

 

[tmanto02]

I love Apple stuff but that's a bit rich coming from them.

My first thought too

 

[samh004]

Apple asked the ACCC not to provide any authorization for a deal this month and suggested it take the full six-month statutory period to assess the application more thoroughly.

Naturally, while I would prefer a quick resolution that saw NAB using Apple Pay, I think 6 months of no access to iPhones as they continue to bleed customers will be very telling for them.

While I do agree that Apple is no saint either, and opening NFC services up to everyone would be a lovely step in the right direction... forcing that change is the wrong step as the precedent would surely be similar to any company saying they wanted access to the Oyster system in the UK, Octopus in HK, Myki, Opal & Go cards in Australia and so forth. They're private systems, secure because they can control who has access to them and provide a good experience because they can control who has access to them. No one is forcing the banks to use Apple Pay (to qualify this, I mean, they can choose never to use it).

On a different track, I wonder why some of the smaller banks haven't thought about signing deals with Apple? I know it's usually the big banks before the small banks, but if Apple were to get some of the smaller credit unions onboard before the last major 3, they'd really look stupid.

 

[ErikGrim]

Ditched NAB for ANZ, and have no regrets. Their online banking, and iOS apps are much better than NAB.
I use Apple pay on my phone and watch for everything where I can. So far it's been flawless, where I can use it anyway. There's still a few places that are sticking to the old machines that don't offer contactless payments, which also means I can't leave the card at home, just yet.

That's good to know. Everyone I've talked to has said the iOS app for ANZ has been awful. Do they also have an Apple Watch app? Quickly glancing at my balance is both useful and addictive.

 

[tasset]

Australians should be proud that some of their fellows still have enough backbone to stand up to Apple.

Opening up NFC would be beneficial all over the world, from wallets to ticketing systems to personal data exchanges.

Moreover, Apple is already simply hosting the secure payment applets written by the credit card companies. Their demand that banks pay a fee to let their own customers register with those applets is sheer greed.

You must be trolling to imply a BANK has anything but its financial self-interests in mind. It certainly isn't for taking a moral high ground or altruistic patriotism. The maneuver in forming a cartel amongst themselves speaks volumes.

And if Apple were to "open up" NFC and let anyone tinker with it, including hackers, whom pray tell do you suppose would have egg on their face with negative publicity and have to fend off all sorts of lawsuits as the platform vendor despite the root cause being a BANK with inept programmers exposing customers to hacks?

 

[Boatboy24]

No, the merchant (retailer) pays exorbitant monthly fees to the bank for the privilege of having a terminal. The banks pay nothing.

And fees are being charged every time a card is used. All are being passed along to the consumer anyway. I've got to believe that the small fee paid by a bank for Apple pay is offset by a reduction in fraud expense, thereby minimizing the true cost to the banks.

 

[Robert.Walter]

ahhh.....another 'opprobrium'......

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/opprobrium

Pro-tip:
1. in Settings>General>Dictionaries,
Turn on he dictionaries for the languages you speak;
2. When you want to know a definition, highlight word, then in iOS 9 choose define from menu (if there is no def, choose search web button on bottom right of screen); in iOS 10 choose LookUp from menu.

 

[Zirel]

Australians should be proud that some of their fellows still have enough backbone to stand up to Apple.

Opening up NFC would be beneficial all over the world, from wallets to ticketing systems to personal data exchanges.

Moreover, Apple is already simply hosting the secure payment applets written by the credit card companies. Their demand that banks pay a fee to let their own customers register with those applets is sheer greed.

Sheer greed because banks don't even pay for credit cards also...

As for "opening NFC"...

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/37667/hacking/nfc-attack-credit-card.html

 

[Sandybox]

Apple shows it's true colours......hiding behind claims of user privacy/security as it attempts to hold on to a monopoly position. And since when have Apple introduced "disruptive tchnologies"? Oh yeah, about five years ago.

 

[RedOrchestra]

Sheer greed because banks don't even pay for credit cards also...

Pretty sure that banks have licensing agreements with the CC companies.

 

[EricTheHalfBee]

These banks don't have hope in hell of winning this in court. It's their phone and their ecosystem. They can restrict access to a component if they wish.

Do they think it's actually more user friendly to have to install a different payment App for each bank you deal with? Are these guys stupid?

Good on Apple to lock down NFC. We don't need scammers making card skimmers out of iPhones like they do with Android devices. That would be a PR nightmare for Apple as they'd get blamed for anything that happened.

All Apple needs to do is add additional NFC types to iOS (like for transit). They can keep NFC secured while still opening it up for additional uses.

 

[RedOrchestra]

Apple sure knows all about security, don't they

"Apple Removes Fake Bitcoin Wallets From App Store After Users Scammed"

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/08/09/fake-bitcoin-ios-apps-app-store/

 

[makr]

Outside of Apple retail stores, who else has full card limit ? I thought it was just Apple

Apple website says, Boots, BP, Costa, M&S, CO-OP, TFL and Waitrose.
Even with a limit it's still same with a contactless card.

 

[tasset]

Apple sure knows all about security, don't they

"Apple Removes Fake Bitcoin Wallets From App Store After Users Scammed"

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/08/09/fake-bitcoin-ios-apps-app-store/

And your point being that banks or card issuers do know about security?
http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/03/technology/credit-card-chips-flaw/

 

[macfacts]

Most importantly it's not free to create, support and maintain for Apple. I guess it counts as greed for haters. I imagine they work for free.

So what is the $650 customers pay Apple for? And the yearly ios developer fee and 30% cut? Apple is getting paid from every which way and from everyone. This is Apple wanting full control.

 

[Kaibelf]

Australians should be proud that some of their fellows still have enough backbone to stand up to Apple.

Opening up NFC would be beneficial all over the world, from wallets to ticketing systems to personal data exchanges.

Moreover, Apple is already simply hosting the secure payment applets written by the credit card companies. Their demand that banks pay a fee to let their own customers register with those applets is sheer greed.

So you want Apple to build and provide a solution for free (and put their security reputation on the line for a third party), or else they are "greedy." Okay then.