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Apple laptops missing the mark
- Thread starter Soc7777777
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Forget Mini Laptops: Think Apple PDA or Tablet
Soc7777.....I don't think you are Apple bashing, but I think the market would be better for an Apple PDA or Tablet Computer rather than a mini notebook.
I love these heated forums.
Soc7777.....I don't think you are Apple bashing, but I think the market would be better for an Apple PDA or Tablet Computer rather than a mini notebook.
I love these heated forums.Apple of my eye said:Soc7777.....I don't think you are Apple bashing, but I think the market would be better for an Apple PDA or Tablet Computer rather than a mini notebook.
yeah me 2... haha i love heated forums.. i just thing that tablets will die off b/c they are hard to navegate with while using the touch screen, and then i dont really see any use to the touch screen, and when using it in normal mode, i is a mini notebook
also the ibm x40 has about the same size keyboard as the apple
btw... just wanted to know
ok since everyone here seems to love the idea of an optical drive, i just wanted to know WHILE TRAVELING, what do you do with your internal drives that a program like alcohol 120 percent woulndt fix (and maybe with a small removable flash drive)????
i say this because with alcohol 120 i never use my cd drive except to install stuff... so i dont need cds for games or anything like that.... and a 60 gig hard drive is plenty to store a bunch of cd images on (use about 10-15 gig for that)
so what does everyone use it for?
ok since everyone here seems to love the idea of an optical drive, i just wanted to know WHILE TRAVELING, what do you do with your internal drives that a program like alcohol 120 percent woulndt fix (and maybe with a small removable flash drive)????
i say this because with alcohol 120 i never use my cd drive except to install stuff... so i dont need cds for games or anything like that.... and a 60 gig hard drive is plenty to store a bunch of cd images on (use about 10-15 gig for that)
so what does everyone use it for?
Soc7777777 said:
Don't blame the site too much. A lot of people dont read all the posts and many people will only look at what you called the thread. "apple laptops missing the mark." You should have known that a statement like that would result in angry comments from people on a Mac site. If you didnt want to get flamed then maybe you should have said I really like Apple laptops, but....
In my opinion the ultraportable laptops and regular laptops are two very different animals. Trying to say that compare the two is like trying to compare the towing capacities of a Porsche 911 and a Dodge Ram. Both are good cars for what they are meant to do, but no one is going to be towing a boat with a 911 and you aren't going to be able to do 180mph in a Ram.
When you are a relatively small company like Apple, sometimes it is best to limit what you produce to a few quality models instead of trying to cover all the bases. If an ultra-portable, but less capable computer is what you wanted, then I can't fault you at all for not getting a Mac. But I can fault you for being naiive enough to think you wouldn't get flamed after starting the thread like you did. Enjoy your new tiny computer, meanwhile I will build my arm muscles lugging my heavy 15" albook around.
parrothead said:Don't blame the site too much. A lot of people dont read all the posts and many people will only look at what you called the thread. "apple laptops missing the mark." You should have known that a statement like that would result in angry comments from people on a Mac site. If you didnt want to get flamed then maybe you should have said I really like Apple laptops, but....
In my opinion the ultraportable laptops and regular laptops are two very different animals. Trying to say that compare the two is like trying to compare the towing capacities of a Porsche 911 and a Dodge Ram. Both are good cars for what they are meant to do, but no one is going to be towing a boat with a 911 and you aren't going to be able to do 180mph in a Ram.
When you are a relatively small company like Apple, sometimes it is best to limit what you produce to a few quality models instead of trying to cover all the bases. If an ultra-portable, but less capable computer is what you wanted, then I can't fault you at all for not getting a Mac. But I can fault you for being naiive enough to think you wouldn't get flamed after starting the thread like you did. Enjoy your new tiny computer, meanwhile I will build my arm muscles lugging my heavy 15" albook around.
oh i knew i was going to get a rise out of people, and i did that for the sole purpose of keeping the posting going for a while... i was just hoping for logical arguements... and mostly i have... i may disagree with most, but save the person i ranted at, they all had logic to back them up
Get a Dakota instead... http://www.bankspower.com/Banks_Sidewinder.cfmdopefiend said:Unless that Ram has a good ole viper engine in it with some crazy gearing!
Sun Baked said:
Yeah, yeah, I knew somebody would find something like that.
Apple of my eye said:
Not true, only in some cases. The IBM X series has an incredible keyboard, and the keyboards Dell uses on their ultaportables aren't half bad. I have used both the Apple iBook (G3 and G4) and the Apple PowerBook (all sizes) and I am comfortable saying that the X series keyboard is as good if not better than the PowerBook keyboards.
I agree with the previous poster about not seeing a small form factor in use. My aunt has an old small form factor from 99 or so. She is the co-owner of Sonoco (Offshore catering) and received it from someone.
Anyway, small form factors have been around for a while. And other than the one my aunt had I haven't seen any. Apple can't make a laptop and then only sell like 500. Same with the Cube. Someone could have said the same about small-form factor computers (they still do) however with Apple being such a small company they couldn't sell enough to make good profit out of it. So they canned it. Apple knows this.
Anyway, small form factors have been around for a while. And other than the one my aunt had I haven't seen any. Apple can't make a laptop and then only sell like 500. Same with the Cube. Someone could have said the same about small-form factor computers (they still do) however with Apple being such a small company they couldn't sell enough to make good profit out of it. So they canned it. Apple knows this.
If apple took the iBook, stretched the screen an extra inch, trimmed the borders around the LCD (like the PB), chopped the weight in half, and halved the thickness, all while keeping the Optical Drive, I think everyone here would want it more than what is available now...nothing wrong with improvements is there?
I think some people are too defensive!
I think some people are too defensive!
One of the major feature about the current constuction method is that the LCD and/or backlight is easily replaceable by the user.Fukui said:
In the PowerBook 15/17 the LCD panel is bonded together, meaning you'll have to pay to replace the entire panel -- or send it off to a specialist that can open the panel.
it would be really nice if apple could make more user servicable parts it should take 1 2 mins to add a new HD or switch optical drives you can do this on almost all PC laptops but not on any of the new apple laptops, which is in my opinion a BIG design flaw
Sun Baked said:
Mac OS always done it that way.Soc7777777 said:
Soc7777777 said:
What is the point of having an ultra small and ultra light computer if you have to carry extra stuffs with you all the time it defeats its purpose itsn't it?
Um, well, just for the record, such a program really isn't needed in OS X. Since you can create a new image from a device, using Disk Utility, you can store images of CDs, DVDs, etc, on your hard disk, and use them, mount by double-clicking on the image. I do like the fact that all Apple laptops do have Optical Drives in them, because I watch movies on my Powerbook on occasion, and I like the ability to burn disks when I need to, since not all computers can natively use flash drives yet.Soc7777777 said:
what are the two biggest demographics that mac sells to?
ill tell you one thing
neither uses ultra-thin laptops.
ill tell you one thing
neither uses ultra-thin laptops.
7on said:
We know that Apple priced it too high...that's why they got a bad press.
Now those cube are collector items.
Plus, just look at Shuttle, the PC cube, they are making a killing
Two reasons Apple doesn't build Ultralights
There are two reasons why Apple does not buy ultralight notebooks, the case to which you are referring. First, the market is very narrow for ultralights, you can find sales figures I'm sure to back this up, but it is a minority of users. So for Apple to build their own version of the Ultralight, they would be an even smaller portion of the market. The R&D costs alone might never be overcome by sales for such a small number of machines. Now it might be possible that more people would by Apple's Ultralight, but even that would be a very small number of people.
The reason the market is so tiny compared to the growing laptop market is because Ultralight machines entail compromises that may not be worth the 3.1 pound weight.
SONY
Now Sony has the TR3, which is a 3.1 pound machine with a 10.6" screen, 1Ghz Pentium M, on chip shared video, a CD-R/DVD and a 3.0-5.0 hour battery life, a nubbin (electrostatic touchpad), and is 1.37 inches thick. Oh and it's got a little camera.
Compare this to the 12" Powerbook, which weighs 4.6 pounds, has a 12" screen, a 1.33Ghz G4, a real video card, the Superdrive, a real touch-pad, a 3.0-5.0 hour battery life, and 1.18 inches.
So for 1.5 pounds, I get more power, a real touch-pad (I personally hate the nubbins) the ability to burn DVDs, more screen real-estate and it's slightly thinner. Oh and the 12" Powerbook costs 1899 while the Sony costs 2299.
DELL
Now Dell has their own Ultralight notebook the Inspiron 300m, which weighs 2.9 pounds and is .9 inches thick. This machine has a 12" screen, a 1.25Ghz Pentium 4, and is 2054 after pricing it out. I couldn't find specific data on battery life, and I'm not sure if the CD-R/DVD bay is external or not, but that gives you an idea of the main Ultralight market.
Apple can't build a computer for everyone, they can't build a Powerbook that is the lightest, thinest, most powerful, most useful (drives, wireless options, connectivity options), without sacrificing somewhere and neither can anyone else. Now, the Sony might be a good machine, the camera could be neat if it were comparable to the iSight, but it's really not much lighter than the 12" Powerbook, but is smaller and less powerful.
Now, I can understand a buyer shrugging off the Powerbook for a much lighter Fujitsu Lifebook because ounces are importantI go rock climbing and I know people who cut off the end of their toothbrush to save a few ounces. That's entirely your decision, but the Powerbook is a very nice machine.
Soc7777777 said:
There are two reasons why Apple does not buy ultralight notebooks, the case to which you are referring. First, the market is very narrow for ultralights, you can find sales figures I'm sure to back this up, but it is a minority of users. So for Apple to build their own version of the Ultralight, they would be an even smaller portion of the market. The R&D costs alone might never be overcome by sales for such a small number of machines. Now it might be possible that more people would by Apple's Ultralight, but even that would be a very small number of people.
The reason the market is so tiny compared to the growing laptop market is because Ultralight machines entail compromises that may not be worth the 3.1 pound weight.
SONY
Now Sony has the TR3, which is a 3.1 pound machine with a 10.6" screen, 1Ghz Pentium M, on chip shared video, a CD-R/DVD and a 3.0-5.0 hour battery life, a nubbin (electrostatic touchpad), and is 1.37 inches thick. Oh and it's got a little camera.
Compare this to the 12" Powerbook, which weighs 4.6 pounds, has a 12" screen, a 1.33Ghz G4, a real video card, the Superdrive, a real touch-pad, a 3.0-5.0 hour battery life, and 1.18 inches.
So for 1.5 pounds, I get more power, a real touch-pad (I personally hate the nubbins) the ability to burn DVDs, more screen real-estate and it's slightly thinner. Oh and the 12" Powerbook costs 1899 while the Sony costs 2299.
DELL
Now Dell has their own Ultralight notebook the Inspiron 300m, which weighs 2.9 pounds and is .9 inches thick. This machine has a 12" screen, a 1.25Ghz Pentium 4, and is 2054 after pricing it out. I couldn't find specific data on battery life, and I'm not sure if the CD-R/DVD bay is external or not, but that gives you an idea of the main Ultralight market.
Apple can't build a computer for everyone, they can't build a Powerbook that is the lightest, thinest, most powerful, most useful (drives, wireless options, connectivity options), without sacrificing somewhere and neither can anyone else. Now, the Sony might be a good machine, the camera could be neat if it were comparable to the iSight, but it's really not much lighter than the 12" Powerbook, but is smaller and less powerful.
Now, I can understand a buyer shrugging off the Powerbook for a much lighter Fujitsu Lifebook because ounces are importantI go rock climbing and I know people who cut off the end of their toothbrush to save a few ounces. That's entirely your decision, but the Powerbook is a very nice machine.
An another thing...
This always drives me crazy, have you seen the power bricks on some of the PC laptops? Some of them are a whole other pound of gear, with extra cords, a thick heavy brick, and more cords. Now compare that to the iBook and Powerbook powerbricks which are elegant and light. That matters when it's in your bag all day.
Mr. G4 said:
This always drives me crazy, have you seen the power bricks on some of the PC laptops? Some of them are a whole other pound of gear, with extra cords, a thick heavy brick, and more cords. Now compare that to the iBook and Powerbook powerbricks which are elegant and light. That matters when it's in your bag all day.
hulugu said:
first of all i have the dell 300m and i paid 1280 for it and its a 1.2 ghz pentium M not pentium 4 huge difference... that included 4 yr onsite warrentee
also, i dont lug around my case everywhere
my computer is small and light enough that i just treet it like a book with a small hard sleve and throw it in my backpack or just carry it...
First of all, please drop the caps, I find it slightly immature to be yelling at someone, whether on a board or in real life.
As for the topic of the thread, I have faith in Apple. There are a lot of experienced and educated marketers at Apple who do a lot of market research both externally and by listening to their customers. If they saw a market for an ultra-light laptop, they would build one, I can assure you.
Case in point, the 12" and 17" PowerBook's. Both required a market before Apple would build them.
The reasoning behind this is simply because of the risks involved. It costs a fair bit of money to do the R&D to create a new laptop, especially one that does not use existing hardware. The PowerBook's really all use the same components, they don't have to do heavy engineering work to design those models. Designing an ultra-light laptop would require many engineering hours and it would be a recurring fee as they tried to compete with the likes of Dell and IBM.
Simply put, I have faith in the paid employees of Apple to make the correct decision. There is no reason for me to say "Apple should incorporate RAID into all PowerBook's because it will sell more to businessmen" because Apple are not going to hear nor will they pay attention to a person who knows little/nothing about making or marketing a new laptop.
On the other hand, Apple are only to happy to listen to software developers like myself when it comes to improving Mac OS X, so possibly you should do an engineering course and marketing and then be an armchair CEO.
As for the topic of the thread, I have faith in Apple. There are a lot of experienced and educated marketers at Apple who do a lot of market research both externally and by listening to their customers. If they saw a market for an ultra-light laptop, they would build one, I can assure you.
Case in point, the 12" and 17" PowerBook's. Both required a market before Apple would build them.
The reasoning behind this is simply because of the risks involved. It costs a fair bit of money to do the R&D to create a new laptop, especially one that does not use existing hardware. The PowerBook's really all use the same components, they don't have to do heavy engineering work to design those models. Designing an ultra-light laptop would require many engineering hours and it would be a recurring fee as they tried to compete with the likes of Dell and IBM.
Simply put, I have faith in the paid employees of Apple to make the correct decision. There is no reason for me to say "Apple should incorporate RAID into all PowerBook's because it will sell more to businessmen" because Apple are not going to hear nor will they pay attention to a person who knows little/nothing about making or marketing a new laptop.
On the other hand, Apple are only to happy to listen to software developers like myself when it comes to improving Mac OS X, so possibly you should do an engineering course and marketing and then be an armchair CEO.
Pentium IV, III, M, Centrino, sue me
I'm sorry it is a Pentium M, not a Pentium 4. Big difference in performance and power-usage I agree, not a big difference in keystrokes though.
Anecdotal evidence not being evidence aside, I was not impressed with the Sony a buddy of mine bought.
The Pentium M is quite the chip, but on-chip video has always bothered me; benchmarks may prove that this doesn't matter.
I'm not saying the Sony isn't a good machine, I'm saying the Apple Powerbook flirts with Ultralight status, but has fewer compromises.
Hey Soc77...how much does the power-brick for the Inspiron weigh? And what is an Inspiron anyway, I never seen one, maybe it's a mythical creature. Who names these things?
Soc7777777 said:
I'm sorry it is a Pentium M, not a Pentium 4. Big difference in performance and power-usage I agree, not a big difference in keystrokes though.
dopefiend said:
Anecdotal evidence not being evidence aside, I was not impressed with the Sony a buddy of mine bought.
The Pentium M is quite the chip, but on-chip video has always bothered me; benchmarks may prove that this doesn't matter.
I'm not saying the Sony isn't a good machine, I'm saying the Apple Powerbook flirts with Ultralight status, but has fewer compromises.
Hey Soc77...how much does the power-brick for the Inspiron weigh? And what is an Inspiron anyway, I never seen one, maybe it's a mythical creature. Who names these things?