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Apple laptops missing the mark

Way to start off on the wrong foot Soc7777777. If you really, really believe, like you said, that Apple's current line of laptops are great and would be complimented with ultraslim models, why did you scream in caps in the topic that Apple laptops are missing the mark? Apparently they are not missing the mark, they just need more options. So why demand that Apple's laptops are inadequte if you went on in the topic to say the current lineup is great?

Why not start his topic off as "Do you think there is an ultralight market Apple could cater to?" Or maybe "Thinner Powerbooks to compliment the current lineup?"

Honestly, people need to learn how to argue on the internet. Everyone needs to stop being such asses and learn how to discuss stuff in a civilized manner.
 
You asked how much people use their drive while travelling. Actually, I use it more while on the road. When I'm travelling, I am with my family, including my kids. We play DVDs for them in the car and at hotels, just to kill the boring time between when we leave home and when we get to where we are going.

Now, when I am working I typically take my powerbook from home to work, about 15 minutes away. On any typical day I don't use my drive at all. But there have been maybe 4 or 5 times over the past year when some PC user has wanted to give me a lot of data or images (and in one case his photo CDs), and I had to explain that my Pismo couldn't read them anymore. Most of the time I took the CDs home. One guy actually had a server that he could put his stuff on and then let me download it. Basically, not only was it really inconvenient (for me and my colleagues), it was also kind of embarrassing.

I'm not saying there is no market for computers without optical drives. I'm just responding to your question/challenge about people actually using the optical drives they have. I lived without a built-in drive for about a year. It was a pain. I'm glad to have a new powerbook now, with a funtional optical drive. I feel like a full citizen again.
 
Time to Weigh In

Ok, I've read this thread and wanted to point out a few things.

1) Soc77 if you start a thread with an inflammatory title you are going to get upset responses. If that is what you are looking for thats sad, its called trolling. If its not then don't start a thread with an inflammatory title and then complain about the results.

2) As a college student who has gone through three computers in 5 years (by choice, I've upgraded) and who has seen a plethora of laptops that people have bought throughout that time, I concur with the opinion that this wouldn't have any sizable market on college campuses. Students don't mind hauling around an extra pound especially as most people I know use their optical drives alot. As some people have mentioned playing movies is a big hit here. Also people burn CDs of stuff (some of it illegal MP3's and software most likely) all the time. Not to mention games. Alot of games you can't copy the disc image, or atleast not easily.

3) This one bothers me not just about this post but about other posts as well. APPLE IS NOT OUT TO SCREW THE CONSUMER. Everyone always complains about how Apple isn't doing this because they don't care or not making that product because they are stupid, but honestly do you really think that a company would AVOID making a profitable product? What possible reason would they have to do that?
Apple does market research Believe me they do. They don't just sit there and think, "gee I wonder what products we can avoid making that the consumers will want, we sure don't like making money."
I gauruntee you there are people whose sole job at Apple is to explore current and possible new markets to see where best to spend their money. If Apple had reason to believe that an ultra-light portable market would be worth investing in they would do so. But Apple only has a certain amount of resources and they are going to focus those resources in areas where they cna be the most succesful and make the most money. Thats good buisness.
I don't know if people have forgotten but Apple used to be spread really thin when it came to models. They had more styles of computer than you could shake a stick at. Seriously I remember this big ol chart my CS teacher in high school had. Steve came back and we have simplified things alot. This is a good thing.
Yes its possible there is a market out there for ultra-lights. And yes I'm sure Apple could come out with a fantastic model if they wanted to, but right now it just doesn't make sense for them to do so. Buisness 101 don't waste your money/time/resources on a product that won't give you a good return on your investment.
 
Soc7777777 said:
... I NEVER IN THIS ENTIRE POST SAID THAT I THINK APPLES ARE POOR COMPUTERS OR THAT THEY NEED AN "IMPROVEMENT", I JUST SUGGESTED AN ADDITION...
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I see your point and I too think that some people are getting a bit more defensive on behalf of Apple than necessary.

I would just like to add something to our economics class. When Apple adds a new product to their line, it also comes with a large research, development and design cost. To justify this cost, they need to have a high enough demand.

Let's say the market for ultraportables are 10% of the regular laptop market. Then Apple can expect the PowerBook Mini to sell less than a third in numbers of each PowerBook model.

Maybe this isn't enough to make up for the development cost. If the market for ultraportables turns out to be large enough, then I'm sure Apple will add an ultraportable to the line.
 
Soc7777777 said:
THIS IS THE REASON THAT THIS SITE IS HARD TO POST SUGGESTIONS ON... I NEVER IN THIS ENTIRE POST SAID THAT I THINK APPLES ARE POOR COMPUTERS OR THAT THEY NEED AN "IMPROVEMENT", I JUST SUGGESTED AN ADDITION... WOW... OBVIOUSLY THIS GUY CANT READ, BECAUSE I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES THAT I LOVE APPLES... I WILL OWN ONE IN 2 YEARS... ALSO THE PERFORMANCE ON THESE PCS GET BAD REVIEWS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE BUY THEM GET A WHOLE BUNCH OF PREINSTALLED SOFTWARE FROM DELL OR COMPAQ OR SONY THAT SLOWS THE COMPUTER AND THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO REMOVE THE SOFTWARE... ANOTHER REASON FOR APPLE TO OFFER AN ULTRAPORTABLE, BECAUSE THEY COULD DO IT BETTER!!! DANG THIS SITE IS FRUSTRATING SOMETIMES....
Click to expand...

I think reviewers from ZDNET or CNET know how to uninstall the the useless software that is pre-installed.
 
gekko513 said:
Maybe this isn't enough to make up for the development cost. If the market for ultraportables turns out to be large enough, then I'm sure Apple will add an ultraportable to the line.
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This arguement and others that are similar i agree with... apple doesnt think that the market is big enough... yet...

smaller is the future (probibly with some type of optical drive though), but when a cd drive is made that is small enough, light enough, and quit enough to fit in the ultraportables we have talked about, then dell, sony, etc will have in advantage in that market when it arrives because they are already used to dealing and developing tiny computers
 
Kwyjibo said:
first off, don't start your threads in caps, it just annoying

second this are pretty baseless points,
all of their smaller notebooks have cd drives and reasonable hard drive sizes. Battery power can be improved but that will probably be solved into the future.

they work around a great compromise between all of these great features which creates a successful line.apple has had a very protable computer for a long time in their 12" models. first with the iBooks' and then last year with the 12" powerbook which I own. An extra pound should not matter to the average consumer. And before you give me the do you know speech, i'm a college student whos sucessfully carried books and my 12" powerbook with me and had no troubles. Maybe its time to quite complaning about a pound and a few ounces.
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If you're going to complain about people using CAPS, you should probably try running a spell check over your own post to make sure there are no mistakes...

Unless 'protable' was the the intended word and you want someone to 'quite complaning'.

'it just annoying'

What are you studying at college?
 
a new point of view

here is an interesting point of view... simple, but intereseting...ok everyone here seems accept three facts

1. apple produces a good product

2. apple's marketers do a good job with marketing/promotion

3. apple has a small market share

now 3 is not debatable.... its a fact

my question is how can apple have a good product and do good promotion and still not have computers fly off of the shelves at the same rate that dell does...

it seems to me that good marketing + good product = good sales

but according to people here, apples equation reads....

good marketing + good product = bad sales (bad in comparison to other companies) so something is wrong, either they do not have a good product, or they do not have good marketing...

so lets compare apple to dell for a bit...

i believe (like everyone here) that apple produces a better computer than dell

i believe also (maybe not like everyone here) that apple does a poor job promoting their product...

for the average pc user who does not do research on a computer and just looks a gigahertz and listens to what dell tells them, they have no reason at all to try an apple... i mean honestly, (in their eyes) 1500 dollars is alot to spend to 'test' an apple out to see if it is better... they would rather stay safe and go with what they know...

seriously, all i see on the idiot box (TV) is a bunch of ipod ads, (itunes included), but NOTHING about computers from apple... apple should actively try to disprove all the myths about macs.. like...

1. macs are incompatable with everything, and therefore are only for the music and video editing community

2. Macs cannot network with pcs

3. Macs are not powerfull machines... just built to look impressive for rich people

4. Macs are overpriced (this is a combo of everything though... people think low compatablity means they wont pay as much)

5. Ghz is the most important measure of speed on a computer

Ok so these are arguments that i have actualy heard for not buying a mac... from real people... i try to argue, but its useless because they dont hear anything from apple telling them differently... they see apples' silence and acceptance... somone here said that the ultraportable market is a niche market (that can be argued both ways), but to the entire community of computers apples ARE a niche market...

final solution... i think apple should run a marketing campaign like they have for itunes to dispel some myths about apples... this would spread knowledge through some pc users and maybe get alot of them to switch, (because alot of them hate windows)
 
Soc7777777 said:
THIS IS THE REASON THAT THIS SITE IS HARD TO POST SUGGESTIONS ON... I NEVER IN THIS ENTIRE POST SAID THAT I THINK APPLES ARE POOR COMPUTERS OR THAT THEY NEED AN "IMPROVEMENT", I JUST SUGGESTED AN ADDITION... WOW... OBVIOUSLY THIS GUY CANT READ, BECAUSE I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES THAT I LOVE APPLES... I WILL OWN ONE IN 2 YEARS... ALSO THE PERFORMANCE ON THESE PCS GET BAD REVIEWS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE BUY THEM GET A WHOLE BUNCH OF PREINSTALLED SOFTWARE FROM DELL OR COMPAQ OR SONY THAT SLOWS THE COMPUTER AND THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO REMOVE THE SOFTWARE... ANOTHER REASON FOR APPLE TO OFFER AN ULTRAPORTABLE, BECAUSE THEY COULD DO IT BETTER!!! DANG THIS SITE IS FRUSTRATING SOMETIMES....
Click to expand...

anyone who types in all caps should be banned. period. its quite rude. is this your first time on the internet?
 
Soc7777777 said:
final solution... i think apple should run a marketing campaign like they have for itunes to dispel some myths about apples... this would spread knowledge through some pc users and maybe get alot of them to switch, (because alot of them hate windows)
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Oh, they hate windows alright, but unfortunately, those same people have been so desensitized by the virus/pop-up/bug-ridden eXPerience, that they think thats just the way computers should be....I once brought my G4 cube (my first mac) to a friends office, and while he was a windows user, he said Steve Jobs is a genius(!), but when asked if he would use a mac, he said he's too used to windows...and there lies the problem. Its hard to advertise an OS on TV, which is why apple is opening stores in high traffic areas, and seems to be working...even if it is slowly doing it...give it time...notice that a great number of people buying iPods are younger? I seem to notice a lot of younger people using macs too...give it time. Those same students will be executives and CEO's in the future....
 
Fukui said:
Oh, they hate windows alright, but unfortunately, those same people have been so desensitized by the virus/pop-up/bug-ridden eXPerience, that they think thats just the way computers should be....I once brought my G4 cube (my first mac) to a friends office, and while he was a windows user, he said Steve Jobs is a genius(!), but when asked if he would use a mac, he said he's too used to windows...and there lies the problem. Its hard to advertise an OS on TV, which is why apple is opening stores in high traffic areas, and seems to be working...even if it is slowly doing it...give it time...notice that a great number of people buying iPods are younger? I seem to notice a lot of younger people using macs too...give it time. Those same students will be executives and CEO's in the future....
Click to expand...

oh i completely agree, but i think an ad or two could go a long way... but yeah i do notice alot of younger users going to apple.... actually i think that apple should start a promotion where a first time student buyer should get the student discount PLUS a free applecare warrentee... because get a pc user to buy a mac once, and he will again and again even if he doesnt get the discount
 
Well, now you've changed the subject. The new title should be "Apple should market their computers and OS better." No one will disagree with you, this has been a major source of frustration for Mac users for many, many years.

As to why people don't just flock to the Mac, I don't know. I work at a university where the main computer tech guy hates Macs - practically foams at the mouth when he even looks at one. Our chair recently updated the office computers (G3s and Quicksilver G4s) with new Dells. Why? Because the tech guy "has nothing but trouble with Macs" but presumably knows how to fix pcs quickly and easily. I don't think any amount of ads would have prevented this new purchase.

Many, many folks around the world make their decisions based on the opinions of "experts" that tell them that pcs are better. Ads don't seem to play a role in the way the "experts" think, because they have "lived life" and simply "know" that pcs are better. I don't know how you make these people change their minds. But if Apple could, *then* they'd see an increase in market share.
 
Soc7777777 said:
AND apple already has like 1.5-3 percent of market share and 5-7 percent of computers in use due to their greater longevity,...
...but anyway, ultaportables WERE a niche market, but just wait, they are becoming more popular
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1.5-3 percent, but they have 7-9 percent of the portable market according to whoever does the computer base numbers. These numbers were released in Jan 2004. Wish I still had the link, but you'll have to trust me ;)

I have a 15" 1in thick 4.9 lbs Powerbook on me. It's so loaded my PC geekin' friends can't stand it. I carry in it a backpack and sometimes I check to make sure it's actually in there. And it's not like I'm a big man, I only weight 125lbs :D I took in with me on a 6 week back packing trip across Central America. I burned everything from CDs to DVDs while on the road. I used everything from my internal modem to ethernet to wireless to get myself on the web so I could upload picture/video/website. In a scenario where everything was carried on my back did I say to myself "gee, I wish I could ditch components to make this computer 1lbs and .3in lighter/smaller.

As someone else noted, to make a Notebook super light and thin with todays technology you have to sacrifice a LOT of that technology. Cutting edge tech, all in one able to do everything computers is what Apple is ABOUT. To rip everything out of the computers just to make it lighter would be against what Apple is about. They could also rip everything out of the eMac and sell it cheaper. but do they do that? No, because that's not what Apple as a company is about.

Also, I'm betting everyone buying "ulta portables" already has a different computer that they can actually USE as a computer. In that case there REALLY isn't a point to Apple selling them. What % of the 1.5-3.0 Apple base are going to buy an Ultra Portable? People don't switch to Apple and give up the windows would because it's 1lbs and .3in smaller :(

I hear Barbi's are selling well right now too :rolleyes:

Tyler
Earendil
 
Soc7777777 said:
THIS IS THE REASON THAT THIS SITE IS HARD TO POST SUGGESTIONS ON... I NEVER IN THIS ENTIRE POST SAID THAT I THINK APPLES ARE POOR COMPUTERS OR THAT THEY NEED AN "IMPROVEMENT", I JUST SUGGESTED AN ADDITION... WOW... OBVIOUSLY THIS GUY CANT READ, BECAUSE I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES THAT I LOVE APPLES... I WILL OWN ONE IN 2 YEARS... ALSO THE PERFORMANCE ON THESE PCS GET BAD REVIEWS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE BUY THEM GET A WHOLE BUNCH OF PREINSTALLED SOFTWARE FROM DELL OR COMPAQ OR SONY THAT SLOWS THE COMPUTER AND THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO REMOVE THE SOFTWARE... ANOTHER REASON FOR APPLE TO OFFER AN ULTRAPORTABLE, BECAUSE THEY COULD DO IT BETTER!!! DANG THIS SITE IS FRUSTRATING SOMETIMES....
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DUDE! It's called the caps lock, turn it OFF! Typing in all caps doesn't make you any more persuasive.

(Included is a pic of the caps lock, incase you forgot what it looks like ;) )
 

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Soc7777777 said:
im thinking maybe its time that you go take a economics class and learn that companies are succesfull by offering what consumers want, and if a consumer wants a 2.99lb computer like i have now (enough consumers), then it becomes smart for the company to produce that product... im not complaining about existing lines, i think they are great, i just think they need an ultraportable offering such as toshibas 2.4 lb r100 or my dell 300m 2.99lb or the new sony which is supposed to get down to 2.2lbs... all im saying is that these computers have a strong demand (hence all the companies offering them) and that apple would be smart to make an offering like that

so dont tell me my points are baseless, because your logic without merit
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Here are a few facts for you:
- The top selling laptops are large, heavy, desk hoggers for coporate use (because they are fast and inexpensive yet fairly portable)
- Apple currently sells light, thin laptops that many consider "too expensive"

Your solution to growing Apple's market share seems to be convincing Apple to put more focus on an incredibly small portion of the market where it already enjoys great success as opposed to focusing on the largest part of the market where Apple has no products at all.

Yes, I think your logic is without merit.

Show me a study indicating that huge number of people would switch to Apple if only Apple would come out with a 12" powerbook with no cd drive. Then we can talk.
 
Soc7777777 said:
so what does everyone use it for?
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Step 1: Take digital photographs
Step 2: Download photographs from CF card to computer
Step 3: Burn a CD copy of the photographs to give to someone

All done while on vacation
:)
 
dopefiend said:
Unless that Ram has a good ole viper engine in it with some crazy gearing! :D
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You do know that the Viper was basically a thought, "hey, let's see what we could do with this 10 cylinder Ram engine in a sports car" right?

I get to see all the new toys at work. I work in the same small building as the Chrysler Performance Vehicle group.
:D
 
hulugu said:
This always drives me crazy, have you seen the power bricks on some of the PC laptops? Some of them are a whole other pound of gear, with extra cords, a thick heavy brick, and more cords. Now compare that to the iBook and Powerbook powerbricks which are elegant and light. That matters when it's in your bag all day.
Click to expand...

It's the pricing equivalent of a product selling for $5 with $7.50 for shipping and handling. By taking some of the necessary hardware out of the laptop they make it appear lighter. But the overall weight is still as high (or higher).
 
This thread is still going on...wow...

Soc777777777777777777777, I agree with you on that Apple should make a smaller computer. They should compress the slot-loading drive and make a laptop under an inch thin and under three pounds in weight. Unfortunately, these computer will never become cheap because Apple insists that the quality of their machines is very, very high. Also, due to Apple's small market share, I believe designing such a computer might be suicide for their company--making a small and inexpensive computer would be very demanding of their resources and would have a very large risk. Most people would opt for an iBook or PowerBook that would give them more power rather than a slower, similarly priced miniBook. Once Apple gains more market share, maybe 10 to 15 percent, this would be a great idea for them, but for now I think it would be asking too much of their already limited consumers.

Another issue that just crossed my mind after writing the above: what chip would they use? Both Intel and AMD have multiple chips (Athlon Mobile, Pentium-M, Pentium 4, Athlon (regular), Pentium 4-m, Pentium 3-m, Celeron, and Celeron-M, and thats just off the top of my head). Unfortunately for Apple, they only have the G4 and the G5. G5s in notebooks are currently out of the question, and even in the PowerBooks, overheating is an issue, so making a thinner computer with the PowerBook chip (G4) would essentially be a piece of paper that can reach around 373 Kelvin. Not a good idea.

Perhaps Motorola's souped-up G4 may solve this problem, though. I do predict the new Moto chip in the next line of PowerBooks, maybe MWSF 2005...
 
DGFan said:
You do know that the Viper was basically a thought, "hey, let's see what we could do with this 10 cylinder Ram engine in a sports car" right?

I get to see all the new toys at work. I work in the same small building as the Chrysler Performance Vehicle group.
:D
Click to expand...


Not to sway this thread off topic extremely, but thats cool, hehe.

Have you been able to see the Tomahawk in person? viper engine -motorcycle!

And you mentioned Chrysler Performance.....What the hell were they thinking with the Crossfire? Bad ass design...low performance! :mad:
 
(offtopic)

dopefiend said:
Not to sway this thread off topic extremely, but thats cool, hehe.

Have you been able to see the Tomahawk in person? viper engine -motorcycle!

And you mentioned Chrysler Performance.....What the hell were they thinking with the Crossfire? Bad ass design...low performance! :mad:
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I don't know where the Tomahawk was made. I certainly never saw it here. Work here is done on the Viper, Dodge (Ram) SRT-10, Dodge (Neon) SRT-4, and the Chrysler (Crossfire) SRT-6. There are also some Prowlers and the like around.

The basic Crossfire was priced too high. It's come down a lot since then and sales have picked up. But it was never really intended to be a performance car. That's what the Crossfire SRT-6 is for. It's got a 330hp supercharged V-6. That will take you to 60 in less than 6 seconds. If you see a Crossfire with a fixed rear spoiler, it's an SRT-6.
:cool:

I am really impressed with the Chrysler 300C. I have a Saab 9-3. It's not a super sports car but it goes 0-60 in about 7.3 seconds. It has punch!! I was behind a 300C with the Hemi at a light a few months ago and I had trouble keeping up with it! It's a stately-looking sedan but boy can it move. I would love to test drive one sometime.
 
DGFan said:
I am really impressed with the Chrysler 300C. I have a Saab 9-3. It's not a super sports car but it goes 0-60 in about 7.3 seconds. It has punch!! I was behind a 300C with the Hemi at a light a few months ago and I had trouble keeping up with it! It's a stately-looking sedan but boy can it move. I would love to test drive one sometime.
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The 300C's the most affordable Bentley yet! :) As for Saab, I think they need to bring back the Viggens. :p
 
THIS IS MY RESPONSE TO THIS..just kidding.. I just got my first apple/laptop powerbook G4 1.5ghz.. I don't really see the need for any lighter or thinner.. 1.1inch thick compared to a little less than an inch thick? does it really take up that much more room, i guess you could put an extra pamphlet or something in your bag, but thats about it. And yes its 5 pounds, but its not like im carrying out of a bag all day. To me, poundage and thinnage isnt really that big of a deal.. as long as its not, say.. 4 inches thick and 9 pounds.. Although this is my first laptop Ive seen other ones and I am completely satisfied.
 
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