I actually appreciate it, so thank you. It's good to get this discussion going, especially as I know Apple is actively reading this forum. I don't know if they'll see this particular thread, but it really allows both of us to get our points across in a meaningful way, and that's important.
And besides, you're debating constructively, which is good.
And I repeatedly said the future just isn't arriving, and it isn't going to. The reason is that USB-C simply does not have any great advantage over USB-A. I guess it's reversible, so that's nice, but other than that it's really no better or worse at all, so why bother?
This is quite unlike USB when it came out. USB had the significant advantage of being cheap and being hotswappable, as well as not being configuration hell, unlike Serial and Parallel which needed A LOT of setup to even connect because there were so many competing incompatible standards and the ports couldn't tell one another apart on their own. It was hell. The only alternative hotswappable port at the time was Firewire, which was technically superior, but also too expensive.
By contrast, USB-A works just fine.
Well they actually did lose the sysadmin market due to their Ethernet decision. I used to see sysadmins all over the place using MacBooks, but those days are definitely over.
Firewire is a fair point, except Firewire is nowhere near as ubiquitous as USB. It's much easier to replace, essentially because it failed to catch in exactly the same way and for exactly the same reason as Thunderbolt 3 is.
I completely agree with this. It's very nice that MacOS is not bogged down by legacy crap, but I have to tell you that MagSafe, headphone jack, HDMI, SD card slots, Ethernet, and USB-A is not legacy crap. That's why all of those ports are on the iMac Pro, including 10Gbit/s ethernet, which is awesome! People still want them, people still need them. I think the next MacBook Pro redesign will have them back, but we'll have to wait and see on that one, won't we?
My main gripe with Windows is not the fact that it supports and runs legacy stuff, it's the fact that the OS is built like complete garbage and the UI is about as consistent as Android is consistent with iOS. The actual lock screen has 4 icons in the bottom right, and every single one of them opens a menu that has a different look and feel. Seriously, when you notice that, you can't un-notice it. And the worst part is, all of these designs are no more than 10 years old. MacOS can easily run software from 10 years ago, so that's not the problem. Windows just has a terrible UI.
But here's the thing, right... the iMac G3 did NOT only have USB-A. I don't know where you're getting this from, but it just isn't true. It is true that it didn't have Serial and Parallel ports, but it did have modem (by that time a legacy port), ethernet, and 2 firewire ports.
But even manufacturers who make USB keyboards still aren't switching to USB-C. It just isn't happening.
And by the way there are lots of advantages to a wired keyboard, such as backlight; you can't get that (and decent battery life) on a wireless keyboard, so I honestly don't understand why Apple wants to go wireless only on that, but whatever. That's their choice. It's my choice, then, not to buy them.
IF you need it. That, right there, is the crux point. It's not just that the devices you connect to the port is high end and expensive, it's that the port itself is high end and expensive. Meaning that any laptop with a lot of TB3 ports is going to become expensive, and therefore becomes unappealing unless you actually need those ports. This is exactly what has happened to the MacBook Pro.
Other manufacturers seeing this decided not to universally adopt USB-C, which means that manufacturers don't need to worry about USB-C or TB3 unless they're going to make one of these high speed products, and so the port is now used exclusively for those high-end expensive devices, which is exactly why it isn't becoming universal - it does not serve a universal demand.
Sort-of...
Thunderbolt 3 actually has some nasty properties in regards to display output and other weird incompatibilities. For example, take a look at this wonderful dongle:
https://www.apple.com/dk/shop/product/MMEL2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-til-thunderbolt-2-mellemstik
Sorry about the Danish. This is a very poorly rated TB3 to TB2 connector from Apple. People expect it to output DisplayPort, but it doesn't, and the reason why is because it looks and sounds like it should, but it doesn't, and because of confusing connector standards, people buy this product and get screwed.
A very similar situation is already unfolding with Thunderbolt 3. There are complaints all over the internet about people buying USB-C connected stuff and plugging it in, and then it doesn't work, because it's a Thunderbolt 3 device, and they don't have a Thunderbolt 3 port, and they have no idea.
None of this matters if TB3 is a cheap, universal standard that everyone can use, but it isn't. It recently became the latter, but it is not the former. Until it is, it will not catch on, and people will get confused, and we'll have complaints, etc.
Yes, it beats every other Mac ever made for about 2 minutes, which incidentally is how long a Geekbench score lasts, and then it loses to last year's model, and after about 5 minutes of sustained use it loses to the 2013 MacBook Pro, and if you turn on the GPU at the same time, it might even lose to the 2008 MacBook Pro.
It's a ********. Don't buy it. Seriously, don't. I'm not trying to take the piss here, but I think Apple might be.
There's nothing universal about that, and USB-C did not pave the way to removing all these connectors, it just added another connector. The reason why this problem happened is because USB could not stick to being universal, and they haven't made it better by adding more types, and they aren't going to make it better by adding yet another one.
This is very much the same thing as all these people making new programming languages because theirs is going to be the definitive one and now we won't have to relearn dozens of languages all the time... nah, they just made another language and fragmented the market further at best.
Well if we're going by this logic, things do get most interesting. Let's look at the 2012 MacBook Pro again.
So the two USB-A ports can drive an HDMI output, and the TB2 ports can be used as DP outputs, which are directly compatible with HDMI, plus we got an HDMI output. So that's 5 HDMI outputs. Whoops, you lose. Also, all of these can be dongled to DVI ports as well, because as it happens HDMI and DVI is the same thing under the hood. There's also USB-A and TB2 to ethernet adapters both, so that's 4 Ethernet ports, and they're full speed as well. How nice.
But it's true that you only had 2 Thunderbolt ports, and now you got 4. And paid a huge price premium. That's nice. Do you need 4 Thunderbolt ports though, or did you just end up paying extra expense for ports and features you don't need.
It doesn't, because these are dongles. They're very elaborate stands combined with dongles I suppose, but they are dongles. They don't help me on the go at all.
No, I said HD BluRay. That came out last year mate. And it's gaining momentum, not losing it.
But whatever, I get that we don't all want that port, and I certainly get your point in regards to floppies. I don't want a floppy drive in my Mac. All I am telling you is that low-end but still useful devices are NOT getting USB-C makeovers, because manufacturers simply don't care about doing that, and therefore the MacBook Pro 2016-2018 will always be the donglebook.
