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Anyone who thinks that learning critical thinking is a bad thing has an agenda and is trying to keep you uneducated and placid for their own gain. A well informed population with critical thinking is important to a stable, and healthy society.

Well, unless this is 'critical thinking' in the Nineteen Eighty-Four sense, where they train you to tune out anything but the propaganda they are feeding.

Sorry but this is nonsense. It's the older crowd that is repeatedly falling for fake news.

Umm, no. It might be true that people Baby Boomers + once relied more on the MSM as a trusted source, and some of them haven't figured out yet that they are not.

But, then we have the younger crowd hanging on the words of AOC. I rest my case.

Yep, reporting is dead and because one side has been lying, the other side also thinks it's OK to lie so you get situations where one side completely denies any form of climate change and the other side is shouting that everyone is going to literally die in 10 years (The planet will literally be devoid of human life).

No doubt, and they forget to tell you that those 97% of scientists are in the middle somewhere. :)

My kid comes home from school the other day with an art/science type project where they had to present problem/solution kind of thing. He drew the earth has having no water or plants and people and animals all going extinct. For solutions, he drew stuff like less people (I kid you not), no McDs, no cars/jets.

Who was the politician a bit back talking about how where they used to play by the ocean is now waves crashing through the doors because of sea level change. Was that even AOC?

And... these are supposedly the science people? My gosh, if it is anything less than child abuse, they certainly should have their science license revoked for basic lack of observation skills.

Lot of folks from that age think ... the earth is flat.

You've actually found some of these supposed people?
 
Even without considering the way the news is written, the bias of what is news worthy is already baked in the information the public is exposed to on a daily basis. So much is happening in the world and yet all the "news" channels have the same stories. "News" outlets direct and shape the public's opinions on issues from the very beginning of deciding what is "news."

Many "news" outlets distract from bad events for their political owners by burying a story. I've noticed when celebrities are dominating a news cycle, real events are being buried. Comparing international takes on events to domestic takes can sometimes reveal things.

Apple News is just Apple wanting a cut for repeating a message while pretending the user is "informed".
 
Not just fake news. An American friend told me the US 70s and 80s school system failed massively. Lot of folks from that age think we never visited the moon, dinosaurs never existed and the earth is flat. People back then did not learn how to think critically without falling for some youtube guy talking BS. When I see in the Youtube comments how Americans think the earth is flat I just, well, I am speechless. LOL
I went to school in the USA during the 70's and 80's. Either your friend was pulling your leg or he was smoking in the boys room during school and hallucinated a lot. No, we were not taught any such things. In fact we got to sit in class and watch the first space shuttle launch. In high school, I was a semi finalist in a competition for students to submit experiment proposals to be carried out during a shuttle flight. I have never met a single person who believed any of these conspiracy theories.

You're basing your opinion of a large and diverse population of Americans based on some YouTube comments and the ramblings of one American friend and you're saying we are gullible? o_O
 
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A rugged individualist should see no issue with teaching people critical thinking skills. It's literally teaching people to think for themselves.
Apple isn't doing that. When I open Apple News, I see content from relatively few sources. Besides their biases, they just don't have the capacity to cover everything that matters. If I search "Howard Schultz," the ex-Starbucks CEO, on Apple News, I only get severely negative coverage. Google News actually seems to show more fair coverage and much more variety despite their scary latest stances on information.

I look at many sources. I'll check CNN, CBS, Fox, MSNBC, Al Jazeera, Twitter, Israeli papers, Turkish or Russian state-funded news, Salon (far left site), and sometimes even browse the craziness on 4chan.org/pol. Even if some of that is fake, it's good to learn how to discern it, and it's good to hear even what the propagandists or extremists say.

I'm not saying Apple is manipulating our minds or anything, but they're likely just neutral. I don't know what Tim Cook thinks he's doing to help people think critically. He's more full of hot air than most people I've heard speak.
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Umm, no. It might be true that people Baby Boomers + once relied more on the MSM as a trusted source, and some of them haven't figured out yet that they are not.

But, then we have the younger crowd hanging on the words of AOC. I rest my case.
I'm 22 and grew up in urban parts of California. Most of my friends agree mostly with Libertarian ideology plus some environmentalism, and that's not something I planned. A few are socialists, one of whom is concerned about everyone turning to the Right. I think kids are smarter, more educated, and less innocent (in both good and bad ways) than before. You don't grow up with the Internet and not learn how to deal with fake news. Tech is all about freedoms. They're also less social and focus more on work, which is bad IMO but does mean they're not lazy.

Also, about the political correctness, I've only ever been chided by older people for using the wrong words, and the professors teach it along with other SJW-related things. I don't know where you guys get that we're the ones creating that. I went to UC Berkeley, the school Trump and Fox News like to pick on, and seriously there were just a few annoying kids there making headlines. IRL most people don't care, especially not the first or second gen Asian students who make up >50%.

P.S. your classmates created the housing bubble and screwed up the atmosphere ;)
 
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So in your world the cleverest news, whether or not accurate, is what gets consumed? You have no concern at all for objectively false information, if the media entity can find people dumb enough to believe it?

And worse...you apparently object to attempts to educate people on how to identify objectively false, or purposefully misleading information.

What is the social value in encouraging people to remain not just ignorant, but misinformed?
I just don’t think its Apples job to be the gate keeper on this. News should be a FREE market
 
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People need waaay more common sense and waaaaay less “political correctness” and “health and safety”

Political correctness restricts free speech and free thinking, where health and safety restricts movement :)
And both of those are trying to brutally murder a common sense.

With Apple’s attitude towards political correctness, I do not know how they want to help to teach common sense
 
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Well, unless this is 'critical thinking' in the Nineteen Eighty-Four sense, where they train you to tune out anything but the propaganda they are feeding.

critical thinking skills don't tell you to "tune out" anything, but to analyze whats being said, fact check it, and form your own opinions.

1984 was supposed to be an example of what happens when you stop critical thinking and let the state propaganda dictate the truth.

Critical thinking allows you to pick through the propaganda, lies, and fake news used for their own agenda.

learning skills in critical thinking should NEVER be considered bad.
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I just don’t think its Apples job to be the gate keeper on this. News should be a FREE market

than don't use Apple news and use another source.
 
If students were still taught Civics and Government we would have voters who understand how our country is designed to work. That knowledge allows people to recognize ideas that are contrary to our country's' best interest. The far left of today has reaped the intended harvest of ignorance assured by the Liberal Educational Complex.
 
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If students were still taught Civics and Government we would have voters who understand how our country is designed to work. That knowledge allows people to recognize ideas that are contrary to our country's' best interest. The far left of today has reaped the intended harvest of ignorance assured by the Liberal Educational Complex.

It's interesting you talk about "ideas contrary to our country's best interests" and not "the truth."

Less interesting but quite telling is how your commentary on this issue related to fake and misleading news is somehow directed at the "liberal" education system but not Fox News, Brietbart, Infowars, etc - the most obvious peddlers of this problematic nonsense and most decidedly NOT members of the "liberal educational complex."
 
Apple isn't doing that. When I open Apple News, I see content from relatively few sources. Besides their biases, they just don't have the capacity to cover everything that matters. If I search "Howard Schultz," the ex-Starbucks CEO, on Apple News, I only get severely negative coverage. Google News actually seems to show more fair coverage and much more variety despite their scary latest stances on information.

I look at many sources. I'll check CNN, CBS, Fox, MSNBC, Al Jazeera, Twitter, Israeli papers, Turkish or Russian state-funded news, Salon (far left site), and sometimes even browse the craziness on 4chan.org/pol. Even if some of that is fake, it's good to learn how to discern it, and it's good to hear even what the propagandists or extremists say.

Well said! I'm not sure if Apple is the worst of this, but I'm seeing a general trend in the tech industry to moderate and determine what gets deemed news or not and what is supposed to be trusted.

I'm 22 and grew up in urban parts of California. Most of my friends agree mostly with Libertarian ideology plus some environmentalism, and that's not something I planned. A few are socialists, one of whom is concerned about everyone turning to the Right. I think kids are smarter, more educated, and less innocent (in both good and bad ways) than before. You don't grow up with the Internet and not learn how to deal with fake news. Tech is all about freedoms. They're also less social and focus more on work, which is bad IMO but does mean they're not lazy.

Also, about the political correctness, I've only ever been chided by older people for using the wrong words, and the professors teach it along with other SJW-related things. I don't know where you guys get that we're the ones creating that. I went to UC Berkeley, the school Trump and Fox News like to pick on, and seriously there were just a few annoying kids there making headlines. IRL most people don't care, especially not the first or second gen Asian students who make up >50%.

P.S. your classmates created the housing bubble and screwed up the atmosphere ;)

I agree with some of what you say, though just don't forget the intellectual giants of the past. In terms of being 'smarter and well educated' we're not really that near the top of the curve in comparison to some in the past. We're too distracted, too specialized, etc.

But, I'm also not sure where you got some of your reaction, as I was just (a bit jokingly, I suppose) pointing to the popularity of AOC among the younger generation. I also know a lot of bright young folks, just as there are many older folks who aren't lock-in-step with the MSM. Those were just overly-broad generalizations.

critical thinking skills don't tell you to "tune out" anything, but to analyze whats being said, fact check it, and form your own opinions.

1984 was supposed to be an example of what happens when you stop critical thinking and let the state propaganda dictate the truth.

Critical thinking allows you to pick through the propaganda, lies, and fake news used for their own agenda.

learning skills in critical thinking should NEVER be considered bad.

I agree, but that is precisely what I mean by 'critical thinking' (not the scare-quotes, as opposed to critical thinking proper) and 1984 double-speak. What seems to be going on here is the exact opposite of what critical thinking means, where the Ministry of Truth decides what propaganda gets the official seal and should be absorbed and trusted by the masses.

If that is what is happening, it is the exact opposite of critical thinking. And, if you don't think that is happening, why do we need services picking out what is news? De-platforming (and outright banning) of ideas?

If we were emphasizing critical thinking, the emphasis would be on how to think, not what to think. Just pick any somewhat controversial topic and note what is happening. There is an 'official' position, often backed up by 'it's science' and then everything else is actively shutdown (as if everyone has zero critical thinking ability).
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It's interesting you talk about "ideas contrary to our country's best interests" and not "the truth."

Less interesting but quite telling is how your commentary on this issue related to fake and misleading news is somehow directed at the "liberal" education system but not Fox News, Brietbart, Infowars, etc - the most obvious peddlers of this problematic nonsense and most decidedly NOT members of the "liberal educational complex."

The problem is that these have become warring factions, neither of which is much concerned with truth, but winning. And, while not true in all cases, as a whole, the education system is quite on the liberal end of that spectrum (and not classical liberal, but USA political liberal/left).
 
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The problem is that these have become warring factions, neither of which is much concerned with truth, but winning. And, while not true in all cases, as a whole, the education system is quite on the liberal end of that spectrum (and not classical liberal, but USA political liberal/left).

"USA political liberal" barely even registers as "slightly left" in most global circles.

The fact that professors lean liberal and students who learn more, get broader experiences, and grow up during important intellectually developing years away from the ruts of their small towns and among peers engaged in learning come out more liberal than they came in is absolutely irrelevant to the classically liberal skills they will learn in most half way decent colleges that help them to identify fake and misleading news.

The fact that colleges might be "liberal" is certainly immaterial to the active peddling of lies, misinformation and misguided outrage among the right and alt-right which has been objectively demonstrated over and over. The fact that one side leans philosophically left is not a counter point to the other side lying their faces off.
 
If that is what is happening, it is the exact opposite of critical thinking. And, if you don't think that is happening, why do we need services picking out what is news? De-platforming (and outright banning) of ideas?

Because unfortunately, especially for politics, what is being pushed as news, especially on social media isn't news and is often full of misinformation, propaganda or falsehoods.

The question is, are the so called "news sites" that Apple is de-platforming legitimate or illigitimate. This is where critical thinking is very important. And diversification of news sources. if Apple is only going to give a certain slant, than it IS up to us, the viewer to go and get a wider perspective elsewhere.

if on the other hand you're just whining that your favourite propaganda spreader is now banned, maybe you also need to apply critical thinking to wonder why they were de-platformed.

if a specific news source has a horrendous track record of being mostly incorrect, non-factual, and lying, why should they get coverage? Not all opinions are created equal, and just because someone wants to be on a soapbox to scream falsehoods doesn't mean they deserve to be heard.

we NEED to deplatform some of them because their falsehoods, lies, propaganda has the capability of destabalizing communities, causing harm to individuals, or even outright sway public opinion towards divisiveness or hate. Those who behave in such manner are free to create their own platform if they truly believe they need to be heard. it IS a free market and they DO have the right to spew their bullpoop. they just don't have the right to do it everywhere they wish.
 
Schools shouldn't have CNN blasting. Instead, try C-SPAN and form your own opinion instead of absorbing someone else's wholesale
Not sure what schools have CNN "blasting," but CNN sucks, their journalism aside, because of their "panels" that devolve into two or more people yelling over each other à la a boxing match until the next commercial break. It baffles me how people watch it willingly. But instead of journalists being able to provide context and discuss falsehoods said by politicians, you'd rather C-SPAN just let politicians go on unfettered screeds?
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I just don’t think its Apples job to be the gate keeper on this. News should be a FREE market
And that's when you get people setting up a WordPress site with a newsy-looking theme at trumpnews1776.com and whatever typo-ridden nonsense they post there being shared hundreds of thousands, and perhaps millions, of times as "news" because they don't know how to discern that an online source (or any source) may not be credible.

There exist people who do not understand the concept that some things on the Internet are fake. Intentionally misleading or satire, they believe it because they saw it shared by a friend on Facebook or Twitter and the link looked the same as any credible news story. Checking so much as the domain name, let alone the tenor of the content before them, doesn't cross their mind.

That's
a problem, not just for news but for life in general. If you can't think critically about what you're being told, you will make yourself look like a moron at some point…at best. Worse cases include being scammed, buying into MLM companies that tell you that you'll make riches off of someone else's idea, and unwittingly taking faulty medical/legal advice.
 
Well, unless this is 'critical thinking' in the Nineteen Eighty-Four sense, where they train you to tune out anything but the propaganda they are feeding.



Umm, no. It might be true that people Baby Boomers + once relied more on the MSM as a trusted source, and some of them haven't figured out yet that they are not.

But, then we have the younger crowd hanging on the words of AOC. I rest my case.



No doubt, and they forget to tell you that those 97% of scientists are in the middle somewhere. :)

My kid comes home from school the other day with an art/science type project where they had to present problem/solution kind of thing. He drew the earth has having no water or plants and people and animals all going extinct. For solutions, he drew stuff like less people (I kid you not), no McDs, no cars/jets.

Who was the politician a bit back talking about how where they used to play by the ocean is now waves crashing through the doors because of sea level change. Was that even AOC?

And... these are supposedly the science people? My gosh, if it is anything less than child abuse, they certainly should have their science license revoked for basic lack of observation skills.



You've actually found some of these supposed people?

I am currently enjoying the theories that we will run out of the fresh water and be in danger dying, yet, at the same time we will be washed away by the ocean. If the people in the news room would stand, I would consider watching news, a stand up comedy. Common sense is so dead.
 
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Have you ever had a science class, where they taught you to separate salt from water, by using a high tech(sarcasm), also know as a“fire”?

Nevermind the fact that in countries like Italy, having a filter to make a freshwater from sea water is usual thing.

...you think water usage is no big deal because we know how to evaporate H2O?

Dude. Take a second and consider what it means to use sea water as drinking (or even irrigation usable) water for a meaningful percent of the water we actually need to use as a civilization. If you manage to come up with an energy efficient method of doing it, you're going to be doing significantly better than Tim Cook. (You'll also probably make some new laws of thermodynamics.)

We might get there, because really smart people and people really driven to make a sh-- ton of money are interested in it, but not because some fool thought it was no big deal. See the below article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...er-to-the-worlds-water-problems/#4ecd55394737
 
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...you think water usage is no big deal because we know how to evaporate H2O?

Dude. Take a second and consider what it means to use sea water as drinking (or even irrigation usable) water for a meaningful percent of the water we actually need to use as a civilization. If you manage to come up with an energy efficient method of doing it, you're going to be doing significantly better than Tim Cook. (You'll also probably make some new laws of thermodynamics.)

We might get there, because really smart people and people really driven to make a sh-- ton of money are interested in it, but not because some fool thought it was no big deal. See the below article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...er-to-the-worlds-water-problems/#4ecd55394737

Somehow I have missed where I have said usage of water is not a big deal. Can you mark it where I have said that? Oh, you can’t because I didn’t say so.

So, splitting atoms, no problem, create things in billions of units, no problem, make artificial diamonds, no problem, making liquid chemicals in billions of liters, no problem.
Separate salt from water, BIIIG UNSOLVABLE PROBLEM :)

There is no real problem with doing that even on bigger scale. the problem is that it is actually useful and doesn’t rake in a tons of money. In simple words, it is more expensive than using fresh water.
Scarcity is much more profitable.
But this is a tread about critical thinking and common sense.
 
Somehow I have missed where I have said usage of water is not a big deal. Can you mark it where I have said that? Oh, you can’t because I didn’t say so.

So, splitting atoms, no problem, create things in billions of units, no problem, make artificial diamonds, no problem, making liquid chemicals in billions of liters, no problem.
Separate salt from water, BIIIG UNSOLVABLE PROBLEM :)

There is no real problem with doing that even on bigger scale. the problem is that it is actually useful and doesn’t rake in a tons of money. In simple words, it is more expensive than using fresh water.
Scarcity is much more profitable.
But this is a tread about critical thinking and common sense.

Did you read the article? Your are dismissive of a mega-concern because you apparently have a high school education about thermodynamics and when confronted with the reality of the complexity of the problem you are dismissive and sarcastic. THIS is actually the problem. It's not Apple moderating bad content, it's people who don't want bad information moderated for fear they will have to confront their comfortable ignorance.
 
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Did you read the article? Your are dismissive of a mega-concern because you apparently have a high school education about thermodynamics and when confronted with the reality of the complexity of the problem you are dismissive and sarcastic. THIS is actually the problem. It's not Apple moderating bad content, it's people who don't want bad information moderated for fear they will have to confront their comfortable ignorance.

Yes I do have a problem with it, that is why I am sarcastic and dismissive. Because there will be people who will always say, IMPOSSIBLE and then there will be people who say, IT ACTUALLY IS POSSIBLE. Nicola Tesla comes to mind.
Sorry I do not play your note, but if there is a will there is a way. In the case of water, there are ways, period. There is no space for progress in thinking anything is impossible.

As for Apple, teaching critical thinking and common sense is important as it is important to have a full freedom of speech. Once you start deciding for people what they can say or not, you actually modify their thinking a lot.
And there will always be mean people, that doesn’t solve anything for them.

And if you disagree with what I just wrote, I don’t mind.
 
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Good, let's keep it that way

But, and I mean this as a sincere concern, we're not going to stay that way if the right keeps engaging in the Brietbart/Infowars/Fox news game. Inevitably we'll be pushed far lefter than me, an admitted leftie, is comfortable with. We need to engage in careful moderation of bad information pushing us to the extremes on either side, especially outright FALSE information, or both ends are going to be way farther out than any reasonable person thinks is good.

I have an opinion on which side needs this medicine more, but that's not really important if we address this problem in the way Apple wants to.
 
But, and I mean this as a sincere concern, we're not going to stay that way if the right keeps engaging in the Brietbart/Infowars/Fox news game. Inevitably we'll be pushed far lefter than me, an admitted leftie, is comfortable with. We need to engage in careful moderation of bad information pushing us to the extremes on either side, especially outright FALSE information, or both ends are going to be way farther out than any reasonable person thinks is good.

I have an opinion on which side needs this medicine more, but that's not really important if we address this problem in the way Apple wants to.
The thing is, the more you try to regulate information, the less those people are going to listen or cooperate. It's like how scientists and Democrats managed to make people think global climate change is fake by attacking people over it or acting defensive whenever people questioned it. If you play the censorship role, you make it political, and people are reasonable to respond negatively to that. Plus the d****e factor that South Park made fun of in their episode about Priuses.

Also, I don't know why we spend so many resources (this is quantifiable) complaining about flat-Earthers; that's as bad a losing strategy as invading Russia in the winter.
 
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The thing is, the more you try to regulate information, the less those people are going to listen or cooperate. It's like how scientists and Democrats managed to make people think global climate change is fake by attacking people over it or acting defensive whenever people questioned it. And I don't know why we spend so many resources (this is quantifiable) going after flat-Earthers.

I agreed with this before the alt right and Nazis marched on my town. Meaning, I also thought ignoring stupidity and refusing to engage in their game and giving them attention was the solution. Turns out certain things are simply cancerous. Certain things are morally wrong to ignore. It's not ok for people to deny objective fact, and we have created a system by which the access to any number of viewpoints gives the false sense of legitimacy to even truly stupid thoughts. You may be right on retrenchment among the true believers, but I've come around to believing that the only good, morale, reliable solution is to stamp it out hard and fast. No more letting uncle bob think my silence means there's some legitimacy to the toxic garbage he pulled off Brietbart.
 
I agreed with this before the alt right and Nazis marched on my town. Meaning, I also thought ignoring stupidity and refusing to engage in their game and giving them attention was the solution. Turns out certain things are simply cancerous. Certain things are morally wrong to ignore. It's not ok for people to deny objective fact, and we have created a system by which the access to any number of viewpoints gives the false sense of legitimacy to even truly stupid thoughts. You may be right on retrenchment among the true believers, but I've come around to believing that the only good, morale, reliable solution is to stamp it out hard and fast. No more letting uncle bob think my silence means there's some legitimacy to the toxic garbage he pulled off Brietbart.
I'm not sure what you plan to stamp out. People become extremists* by discovering the "alternative news," real or fake, that inevitably floats around. After realizing mainstream media silences certain viewpoints that they barely sympathize with, they flip pretty quickly and won't come back. I mean, they're not 100% wrong. If the media is actively trying to influence people, that's a breach of trust, plus they have to be ignoring some facts. But these people are usually irrationally paranoid and won't believe anything the media says after that, so it's game over. It's like trying to win an argument by yelling.

* not ISIS and such, those are different

Good example is this New Zealand shooter video. It's actively censored. It's very easy to find if you want to find it. Worse, the media reports on tons of details in the video, making it clear that they watched it. You should see the crap people on 4chan seriously think about it (well, maybe not, cause it's disturbing).

P.S. My condolences for Charlottesville. That was terrifying to see, and I was only watching it over TV.
 
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