Apple Launches Repair Program for Faulty MacBook and MacBook Pro Keyboards

[darkmatter343]

For me -- I haven't had one of these devices, I've just been considering getting one -- the problem isn't so much that design problems happen, or that manufacturing problems happen. While undesirable, it's how our world works currently. And I have no idea what the %%'s are, or whether Apple have higher or lower failure rates than anyone else. What concerns me is how they deal with the problems once they do occur. And how they have designed a laptop where it's more or less impossible to repair or replace the keyboard without replacing half the casing. I've had many PC laptops through the years, and while none of them were design miracles, I also don't remember having or hearing about any issues that would stop you from using the device for days or weeks while it gets repaired and the repairs costing up to half of a new device. This is the main issue for me.

Now I do suspect that the whole issue is probably way overstated by users, and especially so in forums like this one. I also suspect that the issue is understated by Apple. They must have known about the potential of these issues for at least 18 months now. That's a pretty long time to not do anything about it. Not fix the design or manufacturing defect, but also not acknowledging the problem. But they seem to be doing the right thing now, so that's good.

I would have to argue that PC manufactures are no better at dealing with issues and part failures. Also, unless you've pursed the Lenovo/Dell/HP next business day onsite warranty, say goodbye to your PC for weeks as you'll have to ship it to the depot for repair. I'm not standing up for Apple, but I do think the ownership of issues, and time to service, etc, is pretty equal between PC manufactures and Apple, with the some PC's manufactures being notably worse.

As for Apple knowing before hand about the issue, they probably did. But it's Apple... their ego walks into the room first, and design fault? What design fault?...

 

[Baymowe335]

At Apple, it's always "a small percentage" with ****ups, and "biggest ever" with sales.

The sales are verifiable.

The Mac issue is likely only a limited number of complaints, but that is unknown.

 

[citysnaps]

At Apple, it's always "a small percentage" with ****ups, and "biggest ever" with sales.

Yes, that is correct. And is supported by 10s/100s of millions of repeat customers, willingly opening their wallets to purchase Apple products, and at premium prices. Year after year after year.

Hat-tip to Mr. Cook!

 

[1rottenapple]

The keyboard on mine stoped working in my old 2015 MacBook. It was under warranty though. I sold it a few months afterwards. My 2017 ntb MacBook Pro, I have an automotive 100psi air compressor and I blow out the keyboard once a month. I also have a magnetic sleeve that I put that in 100% of the time when I’m not using the laptop. I hope this will mitigate the keyboard issue.

I really like this 2017 mbp keyboard. Too bad it’s a flawed design.

 

[groovyd]

At Apple, it's always "a small percentage" with ****ups, and "biggest ever" with sales.

exactly... lucky for them no one else makes anything at all competitive with them

 

[iSayuSay]

Apple may replace your keyboard once, for free. But then what? It’s still the same old keyboard. You’re just getting a new one, but Apple does not fix the root problem, they design itself. It will fail again within months, or maybe a year or two after yours replaced.

By that time, the program will end and you’ll need to deal with another “butterfly keyboard problem” again.

 

[Frank Dalton]

I would have to argue that PC manufactures are no better at dealing with issues and part failures. Also, unless you've pursed the Lenovo/Dell/HP next business day onsite warranty, say goodbye to your PC for weeks as you'll have to ship it to the depot for repair. I'm not standing up for Apple, but I do think the ownership of issues, and time to service, etc, is pretty equal between PC manufactures and Apple, with the some PC's manufactures being notably worse.

But on the PC side I can replace faulty components myself. If, for instance, a RAM module or the SSD fails on my ThinkPad, I can pop those out myself and replace them. Does Apple sell *any* hardware anymore where this is possible?

 

[CodeJoy]

I would have to argue that PC manufactures are no better at dealing with issues and part failures. Also, unless you've pursed the Lenovo/Dell/HP next business day onsite warranty, say goodbye to your PC for weeks as you'll have to ship it to the depot for repair. I'm not standing up for Apple, but I do think the ownership of issues, and time to service, etc, is pretty equal between PC manufactures and Apple, with the some PC's manufactures being notably worse.

As for Apple knowing before hand about the issue, they probably did. But it's Apple... their ego walks into the room first, and design fault? What design fault?...

Well, you would know much better than I. I worked in IT service, but never on end user equipment. For the hardware I worked on, it was more like 4 hour on site service from HP, IBM or whoever. And we'd still start calling them after 2 hours wondering where they were, lol. Those boxes had no keyboard problems either, though mostly because they didn't have any

 

[Yaboze]

Apple may replace your keyboard once, for free. But then what? It’s still the same old keyboard. You’re just getting a new one, but Apple does not fix the root problem, they design itself. It will fail again within months, or maybe a year or two after yours replaced.

By that time, the program will end and you’ll need to deal with another “butterfly keyboard problem” again.

Exactly. It's like the 2011 15" Macbook Pro with Radeongate, they'll fix it on an extension, but it's not a new "fix" - the problem will arise again. You're just buying time.

 

[Painter2002]

I think going with a virtual, touchscreen keyboard to replace the physical on a laptop would be a mistake. The prime reason for using a laptop form factor over a tablet is for physical keyboard and touchpad interfaces, which lend to better productivity with multitasking and faster typing. I can see the usefulness of a convertible, for use as either a tablet or laptop. Using something such as the "magic" keyboard with my iPad improves my typing speed, but I still miss mouse/touchpad functionality with many windows available simultaneously . Perhaps with the future development of VR a new computing technology might find a way to supersede and replace the traditional laptop/desktop with keyboard/mouse - that technology has been around since the late 70s - but it remains to be seen what that design might entail. As with phone jacks, though old technology, the physical keyboard/mouse have lasted so long because they remain a superior interface for productivity.

I have to agree with this. I get the flexibility of having a digital "keyboard" as being a nice have feature, but honestly I could never get used to using a touchscreen keyboard, even if it has haptic feedback. For professionals, there is nothing that is the same as having being able to feel the keys to make sure your hands are in the correct typing position, or the satisfactory feedback you getting upon pressing physical keys. Perhaps one day this will be the future of computing, but I don't think such a machine would be fitting for professional use at this day in age.

Even if Apple does this though, I seriously doubt we'd see them try to release a product with such technology until at least another 5-7 years from now.

 

[rtdunham]

Those who have AppleCare got theirs fixed. Those who had problems before 1 year was up got theirs fixed free of charge. They are simply extending the warranty for this problem. If it had only been limited to several hundred machines they wouldn’t have done anything.

I beg to disagree.

I got my maxed-out MBP TB dec 2016, and immediately had keyboard problems. I've been a journalist for 52 years, a touch typist for 57, and I am fast and accurate. On the MBP I got repeats, missed letters, you name it. After convincing myself it was not simply a case of having to adapt to a slightly different keyboard, I took it in 4 or 5 times. It was determined each time that, no humor intended, I was using it wrong. No repair, no replacement. I asked to return it but was past the deadline. It's spent most of the 18 months I've had it sitting unused, other than one- or two-month periods in which i'd try it again, desperate to avoid the conclusion I'd bought a clunker. But each time I returned to my 2014 MBA where my efficiency and speed is very significantly better--what i expect and need from a keyboard. I wanted the MBP TB when I saw the specs; I even bought the $1k LG 5K monitor with it, to take advantage of the USB-C ports. It's the only Apple purchase I've ever been disappointed with.

Don't go thinking everyone who had Apple Care like me had theirs fixed, and don't go telling others that's the case. That's simply not true. I just hope this recall fixes the problem. I hope they've been developing a superior keyboard for the 2018 models and that it's that keyboard they use to replace the upper end of my MBP.

Yes, I've made the appointment for Monday.

 

[Painter2002]

If you don't like the ergonomics of the keyboard, you don't have to buy the device. Simple. I love the keyboard though.

Wherever you got that 40 % from, I'd like to see a source for that. If this were true, Apple would know and we'd not seen an only slightly revised version of the keyboard in 2017.

I already asked once for the sauce on this data earlier in this thread, and they have yet to provide...

 

[rtdunham]

... since they're replaced with the identical flawed design keyboard

do we know this to be true? source?

 

[Painter2002]

Why Apple is not transparent on whether they have a Rev.3 keyboard for replacement? I think it is to their advantage if they do and announce it.

Because they likely don't have one at this time, or are still trying to work out the kinks on the keyboard design. I honestly won't be surprised if the next gen MacBook Pros still use the same gen 2 butterfly keyboards we already have.

 

[CodeJoy]

do we know this to be true? source?

I don't know that anything has been said officially about this. Some have reported that the keyboard on new MBPs feels better, but it's not clear if this means that the flaws are fixed. Would be interesting to know your experience after you get yours fixed.

-- also touch typist, though only half your experience
[doublepost=1529810797][/doublepost]

Why Apple is not transparent on whether they have a Rev.3 keyboard for replacement? I think it is to their advantage if they do and announce it.

Do you know Apple as a transparent company? I doubt that they agree with you that transparency is to their advantage. Same as any large corporation.

 

[DogHouseDub]

I beg to disagree.

I got my maxed-out MBP TB dec 2016, and immediately had keyboard problems. I've been a journalist for 52 years, a touch typist for 57, and I am fast and accurate. On the MBP I got repeats, missed letters, you name it. After convincing myself it was not simply a case of having to adapt to a slightly different keyboard, I took it in 4 or 5 times. It was determined each time that, no humor intended, I was using it wrong. No repair, no replacement. I asked to return it but was past the deadline. It's spent most of the 18 months I've had it sitting unused, other than one- or two-month periods in which i'd try it again, desperate to avoid the conclusion I'd bought a clunker. But each time I returned to my 2014 MBA where my efficiency and speed is very significantly better--what i expect and need from a keyboard. I wanted the MBP TB when I saw the specs; I even bought the $1k LG 5K monitor with it, to take advantage of the USB-C ports. It's the only Apple purchase I've ever been disappointed with.

Don't go thinking everyone who had Apple Care like me had theirs fixed, and don't go telling others that's the case. That's simply not true. I just hope this recall fixes the problem. I hope they've been developing a superior keyboard for the 2018 models and that it's that keyboard they used to replace the upper end of my MBP. Yes, I've made the appointment for Monday.

I hear you! It's a terrible design. I had mine a week and swapped it our for the older model. The one with all those archaic ports and a useable keyboard. The Macbook has been the go-to for people who need to get work done - this latest iteration is a huge step in the wrong direction.

 

[hajime]

Because they likely don't have one at this time, or are still trying to work out the kinks on the keyboard design. I honestly won't be surprised if the next gen MacBook Pros still use the same gen 2 butterfly keyboards we already have.

Under TC's management, I keep hearing disappointment news or no good news about MBP products.

 

[smirking]

It just would be nice to have all the data, not just a % failure rate number tossed out, because there are other variables that may have participated in the actual failure, even if it's a flawed design. User interaction, environment, etc.

There are a number of people here who are claiming to be on their 3rd and even 4th replacement. I'd have to believe that some of that might be due to the user or the environment in those cases. If it's due to the user hammering on the keys maybe they should have gone with a different design and then again maybe people who hammer on their keyboards are just bound to wear them down eventually.

My wife is one of those people who hammer the keys. We've lost keys on just about every MBP she owns. A lot of keyboards break down on me too. I have a very light touch, but I also type very very fast. The actuation limits on keyswitches are not theoretical on anything I use.
[doublepost=1529812615][/doublepost]

Now I do suspect that the whole issue is probably way overstated by users, and especially so in forums like this one. I also suspect that the issue is understated by Apple.

My feelings exactly. Just because one side is trying to be hush hush about things, doesn't mean there isn't some melodrama happening on the other side.

 

[morphineseason]

It's not the first time Apple has messed up their keyboards. I remember exchanging two or three of the plastic white Macbooks back in the day for various manufacturing defects in the chiclet keyboards. Basically some keys wouldn't respond correctly, or would be too touchy and repeat characters. Probably some kind of variation in the rubber nubs under the keys at the time. I'm sure the Apple Genius's thought I was nuts, but when you're spending that kind of money on Apple products, you expect the best, or at the very least a fully functioning keyboard, as it's a big selling point for students/writers/professionals/pretty much anyone who is buying a laptop.

 

[drewyboy]

It’s brilliant that they finally started a free repair program for this. Many people thought they wouldn’t but it was starting to get out of hand. Although it shouldn’t have been an issue in the first place. The 2018 models don’t have this issue due to the mechanism used.

There is no 2018 model.
[doublepost=1529814501][/doublepost]

Regardless of what the haters will say, this is good customer service. Thank you Apple!

You're right, replacing it with another faulty keyboard is great customer service.
[doublepost=1529814777][/doublepost]

Many people didn't pay premium prices for a laptop that has such a vulnerable keyboard (ergonomic issues aside).

And the figure is far higher than "a small percentage". Corporates that issues hundreds are finding about 40% of these laptops have keyboard failures within the first year.

40%

The corp I work for is at ~17% on 2016 and 2017 and due to these types of ongoing issues, we no longer allow the purchases of Macs. This policy won't likely change in the future. For reference our headcount is 41k, with about 15k being engineers.

 

[Painter2002]

Under TC's management, I keep hearing disappointment news or no good news about MBP products.

For what it is worth, I haven’t had any hardware issues at all with my 2017 MacBook Pro, and I’m sure I’m not alone in this positive experience.

I’m not saying there aren’t flaws or issues in the designs of the MacBook Pro, but sometimes it’s easy to get distracted with all the negative news. And Steve Jobs had design issues during his time with Apple (Antennagate is the obvious one), so no leader is perfect.

 

[aaronhead14]

Doesn't work in the thinnest-smallest-lightest design regime, though.

That's precisely why it's better though. The slightly thicker keyboard is simply a more functional design. Virtually no one on the planet cares about an extra millimeter in thickness.

 

[darkmatter343]

But on the PC side I can replace faulty components myself. If, for instance, a RAM module or the SSD fails on my ThinkPad, I can pop those out myself and replace them. Does Apple sell *any* hardware anymore where this is possible?

I'll half agree with you there... only because laptops like the Lenovo X1 Carbon has the ram soldered onboard. HP x360 same thing. Most PC Ultrabooks are going the same way of soldered ram, and in some cases even ssd. Ram typically doesn't go bad, but SSD reliability is horrible these days IMO. I do think it's brand and especially ssd controller dependent, Samsung drives are very highly regarded for their reliability. I bought a WD 250gb last summer that lasted 2 months before it was no longer recognized, and I've seen countless Intel and Sandisk SSD's drop dead in the HP Elitebooks. Point is, I don't think any manufacture should be soldering on the SSD, it makes no sense from a service or data recovery view.

Btw, 27" iMac lets you upgrade the ram...

 

[KPandian1]

do we know this to be true? source?

Do we know this to be false? Has Apple declared that it has a newer, better or fixed version of the butterfly keyboard that it is using to fix the "bad" ones? Isn't this burden of proof on Apple than the people who will assume that the replacements are brand new old keyboards that came with the original laptop?

 

[537635]

Apple may replace your keyboard once, for free. But then what? It’s still the same old keyboard. You’re just getting a new one, but Apple does not fix the root problem, they design itself. It will fail again within months, or maybe a year or two after yours replaced.

By that time, the program will end and you’ll need to deal with another “butterfly keyboard problem” again.

Option 1: There is already a "revision 3" of the 2nd gen butterfly keyboard out (or on the verge of being implemented), which will hopefully fix these problems for good.

Option 2: Apple is actually replacing failed keyboards with new keyboards equally prone to failure in order to buy time.

Option 2.1: In due time this will get fixed with a new revision and they will start repairing failed keyboards with better ones.
Option 2.2: The new revision will come out but with with a chassis modifications and only available for new models. 2015-2017 models will be serviced with failure prone keyboards until the 4 year mark is up and then it's game over for these €3k+ laptops.

​

With zero info on how these keyboard problems are being dealt with, I do fear the worst - option 2.2. It's just RadeonGate all over again. I just hope that people will do multiple keyboard replacements (like 4 in my case) before the 4 year mark is up, causing substantial financial burden on Apple and perhaps forcing them to actually start replacing keyboards with better ones.