Apple Launches Repair Program for Faulty MacBook and MacBook Pro Keyboards

[newellj]

I was in John Lewis in Kingston, UK, on Saturday and all three MBPs on display had keys that didn't work. One had ZX u/s, another the left hand CMD and another the H. Surely they won't be selling many.
I wouldn't have thought these display machines had a particularly tough life; how embarrassing that all three have keyboard problems.

I have run into this in the Apple corporate stores in the Boston area. It says a lot that the Apple store staff can't even keep working laptops in the store.
[doublepost=1529926062][/doublepost]

Someone earlier commented that display units actually do have a pretty tough life. People intentionally abuse them to see if they hold up before deciding to make a purchase.

That's possible, but I've never seen anyone beating on the display units. I do think that people tend to treat things they don't own worse than things they do own, so maybe that sort of comes out the same.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Apple announcing free out-of-warranty repairs is them denying that there is a problem?

Let us see when Apple announcing free repair? After several class actuon lawsuits and years of complains about keyboard.

Apple is pretty much denying problem until it force to. Made me think about Antenagate, MacBook Pro logicboard problem, iPhone 6 bendgate, iPhone 6S battery throttling problem. Apple denied these problem first then adimmited later. Pretty much Apple's tradition now.

 

[manu chao]

I think perhaps the 3 years prior to admitting there is a design issue (the retina 12" came out in 2015, remember - and many people have had to pay for these repairs so far) is a case of denying there is a problem. This wasn't a problem that took a long time to surface either.

Then you forgot to use the past tense in the post I was replying too. But what is a little misrepresentation if it helps to vent your anger?

 

[AJB1971]

I hope the cost of this issue will persuade Apple to make devices which are more easily repairable. It’s certainly backfired on them this time.

 

[LordVic]

I hope the cost of this issue will persuade Apple to make devices which are more easily repairable. It’s certainly backfired on them this time.

Not just this time. That's why no, I don't think they'll learn. Instead of doing something that I think most people would be satisfied with (Put the old style keyboard in, even if it adds 2mm back, They still wont do it. As for "thickness", did people complain when the iPhone got 1mm thicker for force touch? No, Because sometimes its worth it if you get a better product. Thinness at all costs is not good.

But on other devices where it "Backfired" in their computer lineup, they haven't seemed to balk / care and fix the problems.

the iMac's thermal throttle. Apple has shown no evidence to correct this. Instead they created an "upscale" iMac Pro with the better thermals, and told anyone who wants a properly cooled machine to buy a $5000 device instead

The Mac Pros were a thermal dead end with size and "form" being the norm. They SAY they're working on something new. They said this in 2017. They've said it in 2018, and now they're saying ti won't be till 2019... 6 years after the last mac pro... So the evidence still shows they're trying to continue to over-engineer just to keep their current direction of unrepairabe computers.

how about the Mac Mini's, the MacBook Airs? Where are those updates correcting their problems.

as the other thread has said, Apple has rarely walked back design decisions that have put the size and form of the device, even if those decisions led to machines with problems.

 

[Abazigal]

I hope the cost of this issue will persuade Apple to make devices which are more easily repairable. It’s certainly backfired on them this time.

If anything, it seems like Apple isn't too worried about the repairability of their devices because they just can just direct their Apple store personnel to replace those devices for free.

In short, they make sleek products that look great and which users are willing to pay a premium for, which goes towards paying off the (expensive) repairs for a small portion of users who invariably run into problems.

For all the attention this keyboard issue has garnered, I still believe that the total number of people affected by this issue is in the minority. Let's say 5% had this keyboard issue. That means that 95% of people who bought the new MBP don't, so any limitations brought about by the new laptop design being less repairable just isn't relevant to them.

You don't miss what you don't need. On a whole, Apple still earns.

 

[dilbert99]

If they're making a profit on service and repairs like they must have up to now, a higher failure rate would actually be desirable as long as it doesn't hurt sales too much.

In some aspects, yes, but if you sold 100 million phones, 3 million returns is a big chunk while in warranty, out of warranty thats still a fair few unhappy customers.

 

[antonis]

Mine doesn’t have issues. Glad though Apple started this repair program.

Glad you are not having this issue, hope it keeps up that way. It is more frequent, though, on heavy typing usage (expectedly). On all of my cases (friends, colleagues, myself) the machine was used for command line work (devs, administrators).

After all, it's the mechanism design itself that has the issue so any mac with this keyboard is a potential candidate.

 

[Stygma]

My wife and I got 2017 MBP 13' this year. So "first retail sale of the unit" --- we got Apple Care+ on both of our laptops. So, for us, we get 1 more year of "keyboard" coverage. Ok, cool.

I'm one of the rare, I guess, but I really like this keyboard. 1 more year of "possible keyboard" coverage is Ok to me but not amazing news.

Still nice to see that we'll get at least 4 years of worry free usage out of these things.

I'm not sure this is true, it says "after the first retail sale of the unit" I take that to mean after the unit was first available for sale, so if you waited a year to buy them, then you only have three years left on this program. So really it doesn't extend your warranty at all. I could be wrong though.

 

[randyhudson]

When did Apple blame their customers?

When they charged anyone who needed a repair outside of the 1-year warranty period?

 

[BigMcGuire]

I'm not sure this is true, it says "after the first retail sale of the unit" I take that to mean after the unit was first available for sale, so if you waited a year to buy them, then you only have three years left on this program. So really it doesn't extend your warranty at all. I could be wrong though.

Was wondering this as well - in fact, that's how I took it at first, but the more I read into it, looks like the first sale of the unit to the first owner (so if someone buys it second hand, not extended - but if bought new, starts from there).

But yeah still not completely sure about that. haha.

 

[AJB1971]

If anything, it seems like Apple isn't too worried about the repairability of their devices because they just can just direct their Apple store personnel to replace those devices for free.

For all the attention this keyboard issue has garnered, I still believe that the total number of people affected by this issue is in the minority. Let's say 5% had this keyboard issue. That means that 95% of people who bought the new MBP don't, so any limitations brought about by the new laptop design being less repairable just isn't relevant to them.

It really depends on the scale of the issue. The fact that some users have had multiple keyboards replaced makes me think that it is greater than one in twenty, but that’s just my opinion.

I agree that Apple hasn’t been bothered about repairability in recent years, but they do pay great attention to their profit margins, and if an issue hits the bottom line, then I think they will take note of it.

 

[Crazy Badger]

View attachment 767374

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205662

If your MacBook (2015 and later) or MacBook Pro (2016 and later) has an unresponsive key, or a key that feels different than the other keys when you press it, follow these steps to clean the keyboard with compressed air.

Notice this cleaning techniques page only applies to 2015 and newer models. Almost as if the older models don't need cleaning.

Thanks for posting this! I'd seen this thread over the weekend, and given its length not read through every post. I had visited the Apple website and scheduled a Genius Bar visit to resolve my unresponsive space bar issue.

Today I decided to read through some of the posts and came across this one. Although not quite the same as in the picture, my SCUBA cylinders worked perfectly as a source of compressed air and my space bar is working perfectly again!

Now off to cancel the Apple appointment...

 

[needsomecoffee]

Besides that, if your keyboard is fine after 2 years, it'll probably be fine after 3 or 4 as well.[doublepost=1529921832][/doublepost]

Quick note that this statement is really the opposite of the pattern usually seen for parts failures. They follow a Weibull distribution.

 

[bluecoast]

Yeah, I'm the guy who was saying that a keyboard only needs to last four years... except that's not what I said.

I said four years is a fair amount of time to cover a keyboard. Hopefully it lasts longer than that, but four years is a pretty robust warranty. Besides that, if your keyboard is fine after 2 years, it'll probably be fine after 3 or 4 as well. Most of the reports of failure that I've been reading are people who've only had their MBP a few months. I can't recall anyone reporting a first failure after 18 months.
[doublepost=1529921832][/doublepost]

Thinner and lighter wasn't a selling point to me before. It is now. I love how light my tbMBP is. My shoulder and neck love it even more. I have to carry this thing around a lot.

That said, I wouldn't mind if it was just a little less thin if that would make the keyboards less volatile, but please do give me the lightest laptop you can without gutting it of power.

Fair enough!

What I was getting at was the few mm that was shaved off the MBP.

From everything I’ve read, it does seem that it would’ve helped with air circulation, a bigger battery and allowed for user replaceable RAM and SSDs.

I really think that Apple needs to redo the Air and make that its ultrabook and let the Pro breathe a little.

Then anyone approaching a pro or a business user would have a better choice:

Air - ultrabook. Thin and light, not as light as the MB but you’re not going to notice the weight too much. Good for any office type productivity tasks and light graphics, video and audio work. Not (easily) upgradeable. 13 screen only.

MBP - true pro machine. Not as thin and heavier but still portable. 15 inch version is portable. not intended to be lugged around all day. 13 can be lugged around all day but you’re going to feel it. Good for pro graphics, audio and audio work & dev compiles. Not powerful enough for VXF and video post production work. SSD and RAM easily upgradeable.
[doublepost=1529936484][/doublepost]

Not just this time. That's why no, I don't think they'll learn. Instead of doing something that I think most people would be satisfied with (Put the old style keyboard in, even if it adds 2mm back, They still wont do it. As for "thickness", did people complain when the iPhone got 1mm thicker for force touch? No, Because sometimes its worth it if you get a better product. Thinness at all costs is not good.

But on other devices where it "Backfired" in their computer lineup, they haven't seemed to balk / care and fix the problems.

the iMac's thermal throttle. Apple has shown no evidence to correct this. Instead they created an "upscale" iMac Pro with the better thermals, and told anyone who wants a properly cooled machine to buy a $5000 device instead

The Mac Pros were a thermal dead end with size and "form" being the norm. They SAY they're working on something new. They said this in 2017. They've said it in 2018, and now they're saying ti won't be till 2019... 6 years after the last mac pro... So the evidence still shows they're trying to continue to over-engineer just to keep their current direction of unrepairabe computers.

how about the Mac Mini's, the MacBook Airs? Where are those updates correcting their problems.

as the other thread has said, Apple has rarely walked back design decisions that have put the size and form of the device, even if those decisions led to machines with problems.

I really would’ve preferred that extra 1mm and extra weight to have been used to maximise the battery size - and no force touch!

 

[AnthonyHarris]

Glad you are not having this issue, hope it keeps up that way. It is more frequent, though, on heavy typing usage (expectedly). On all of my cases (friends, colleagues, myself) the machine was used for command line work (devs, administrators).

After all, it's the mechanism design itself that has the issue so any mac with this keyboard is a potential candidate.

I thought it was things getting stuck in/under the mechanism that was the problem. Not the mechanism itself?

 

[Marekul]

I thought it was things getting stuck in/under the mechanism that was the problem. Not the mechanism itself?

Yeah, the keyboard fails when microscopic dust particles block the mechanism. That is a major design flaw, unless its supposed to work in the cleanroom environment only.

 

[macduke]

Just curious, has Apple said its customers are important to them?

They've said their customers are not their product. They've put immense effort into protecting consumer privacy. They think about the user first in everything that they design. They have said that they're trying to make the world a better place. They have put many systems in place to decrease their carbon footprint and become more green. They focus on accessibility more than nearly any company I've ever seen. I recently attended an accessibility conference and Apple was by far the leader in this regard. We have physically disabled users at my work in the accessibility office and they have told me personally that Apple is by far the best in this area. The way they zip around their iPhone using voiceover and other haptic feedback and controllers is amazing. This is different than most companies that exist and, to me, show that customers have historically been quite important to them. Tim cook once told a shareholder at a meeting (pulled from an article):

"When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind," he said, "I don't consider the bloody ROI." He said that the same thing [applies] about environmental issues, worker safety, and other areas where Apple is a leader.​

 

[macjunk(ie)]

....

Still nice to see that we'll get at least 4 years of worry free usage out of these things.

"worry free" is stretching it a bit I think

When your keyboard fails, you have to go through the pains of prepping your machine and dropping it off for a few days (maybe even a week) at the store. At this point, we don't know if Apple's repair program "fixes" the issue or simply kicks the can down the road. So it means you might have to drop off your laptop at the store multiple times in the 4 year lifespan.

What is worrying actually is that the keyboard can fail ANY time. I had an horrible experience with the 2011 MBP when it's GPU failed on me while giving a remote interview. The keyboard issue is a similar problem. I can't imagine by space key dying midway in an interview. Luckily, this can be alleviated by carrying a "backup" keyboard. Although, a "backup" keyboard is something I never though I would say.

If I had a 2017 MBP, then I would need to carry dongles, a can of air compressor and a backup keyboard with me. Hmmm...

 

[hajime]

.

 

[pier]

"worry free" is stretching it a bit I think

When your keyboard fails, you have to go through the pains of prepping your machine and dropping it off for a few days (maybe even a week) at the store. At this point, we don't know if Apple's repair program "fixes" the issue or simply kicks the can down the road. So it means you might have to drop off your laptop at the store multiple times in the 4 year lifespan.

What is worrying actually is that the keyboard can fail ANY time. I had an horrible experience with the 2011 MBP when it's GPU failed on me while giving a remote interview. The keyboard issue is a similar problem. I can't imagine by space key dying midway in an interview. Luckily, this can be alleviated by carrying a "backup" keyboard. Although, a "backup" keyboard is something I never though I would say.

If I had a 2017 MBP, then I would need to carry dongles, a can of air compressor and a backup keyboard with me. Hmmm...

This.

The keyboard repair program is exactly "kicking the can down the road".

Much like what happened with the 2011 MBP, Apple doesn't really care what damages its mistakes caused, and the value of any product affected has dropped significantly.

When my very expensive top-of-the-line 2011 MBP died, I had to buy a new computer to be able to keep on working. A year later the repair program didn't really solve anything for me. I had already invested even more money on another machine, and after the repair nobody wanted to buy the machine. My investment in the 2011 went down the drain. I ended up giving it away to a junior dev in my team, and the machine died again a couple of months later (when the repair program had already ended).

 

[Queen6]

This.

The keyboard repair program is exactly "kicking the can down the road".

Much like what happened with the 2011 MBP, Apple doesn't really care what damages its mistakes caused, and the value of any product affected has dropped significantly.

When my very expensive top-of-the-line 2011 MBP died, I had to buy a new computer to be able to keep on working. A year later the repair program didn't really solve anything for me. I had already invested even more money on another machine, and after the repair nobody wanted to buy the machine. My investment in the 2011 went down the drain. I ended up giving it away to a junior dev in my team, and the machine died again a couple of months later (when the repair program had already ended).

Same Old, Same Old, as ever with Apple. Thing with monopolies is once your locked in your done, having no option but to accept the their terms, seemingly with little accountability...

Time for Apple to grow up, Apple needs to decide which side of the fence it sits, it's time to play the game or "fold" and go see what colour best complements Latte Mochachino with caramel, pretty toy's or usable tools...

Q-6

 

[lcseds]

My MBA 2012 is now 6 years old and never had any issues with keyboard or it's other hardware. I expect more than 4 years of life span from a laptop that's worth over $2k. While this repair program is a nice move towards those who already purchased mac-books with butterfly keyboard, it will not persuade me to buy one, even though I am long overdue for an upgrade.

Same here. Don't even mention to me a solution that requires canned air. Not on a $3K notebook. My 2013 15" has never needed canned air. It's screen is terrible, but everything else has been flawless. But they don't get a pass because of the screen (image retention). They are cooking my grits with one problem after another it seems. Apple solutions these days are for problems that don't exist. The wheel has served the world well. So has scissor mechanisms. No redesign needed.

I'm all for innovation, but I can't imagine on the engineering mock ups they thought this to be a good idea.

 

[pier]

I'm all for innovation, but I can't imagine on the engineering mock ups they thought this to be a good idea.

I imagine the requirement to shave a couple more millimeters from the design didn't come from the engineers...

 

[smirking]

Quick note that this statement is really the opposite of the pattern usually seen for parts failures. They follow a Weibull distribution.

Indeed and my comment was only my personal estimation of the MBP keyboard issue based on what I've been reading and my own experiences with this keyboard and other keyboards that have failure problems.

I'm a recovering keyboard nut. I have an embarrassing number of keyboards.

The ones that gave me trouble all gave me trouble within a few months of owning them. There was something not quite right in there. Occasionally, I'd find one that would settle down after some breaking in, but usually the problematic ones were revealed early and remained problematic.

I'm sure 10 years out, that Weibull distribution curve will be the dominant pattern, but keyboards are built to take a lot of wear and tear so the ones that are going to fail are going to fail ahead of schedule and not follow a normal attrition pattern.

I'm not sure where my 2016 MBP's keyboard sits. I had recurring problems with keys jamming in my first year. In year two, I've had none. I'm not sure why. It's like mine got better with some breaking in, which is why I keep suggesting to people that they don't immediately run to get their keyboards replaced unless keys are entirely inoperable. The ones who do rush for replacements seem to be going back again and again. Maybe some of them will have better luck just letting it go.