Apple Launches Repair Program for Faulty MacBook and MacBook Pro Keyboards

[smirking]

1. it performs just fine
2. the new machines are worse for my usage.

My machine is pretty similar to the models from 2013-2014 other than the slightly more efficient CPU. If i had a 2013-2014 model that still worked like this I'd also not want to replace it with new.

I actually have a mid 2012 humming along quite nicely myself. It needed repairs at the 4 year mark, but they were inexpensive and I was able to do them myself. If it were a $500 repair, I'd be looking long and hard at either getting a PC or figuring out some way to make the current options paltable to me. If your 2015 needed $500 in repairs two years from now and Apple had nothing that you could stand, would you do it?

I wouldn't. I'd buy a PC or go back to having a desktop and maybe get a MBA for portability.

While I also have a 2010 MBP that shows that Apple can make stuff that lasts forever, I've also had plenty of MacBook Pros, Power Books, and G3/G4 towers that started imploding around 4 years and kept imploding. Heat ages electronics. If one thing blows on you, other components may not be far behind.

 

[iLilana]

wow they are sure doing a lot for a keyboard. Maybe they should replace graphics cards in the 2013 iMacs. My maxed out (over 4 thousand dollar) iMac and GPU just died today... cant even play original starcraft broodwar. Causes kernel panic and reboot after any moderate GPU usage. I figured spending the extra money for a maxed out model would get a couple extra years before I sold it. However like clockwork on all my macs, 4.5 years after purchase the GPU dies. AppleCare has elapsed. This was the reason I had to buy THIS iMac 4.5 years ago. My GPU on my 2010 i5 iMac 27inch died. Just before they announced the 5k iMac. previous to that the fan on my MacBook pro. Not a fun week. Family death, Friend of family death on same day. GPU death today. whats next.. house burns down? Train falls from sky and lands on house? Another tornado (yes we have had one tornado 2 years ago and the 2 previous years major storm wind/hail damage). insurance would probably laugh at me. but hey.. those keyboards will get fixed.

 

[throAU]

I actually have a mid 2012 humming along quite nicely myself. It needed repairs at the 4 year mark, but they were inexpensive and I was able to do them myself. If it were a $500 repair, I'd be looking long and hard at either getting a PC or figuring out some way to make the current options paltable to me. If your 2015 needed $500 in repairs two years from now and Apple had nothing that you could stand, would you do it?

Good question.

I very much dislike windows as a platform, $500 would be pushing things. I'd have to see how well the machine was still running. But if it was a $250 repair, i'd definitely do it. I'm not sure where the mark is. Like i said i really dislike windows as a platform and Linux isn't quite there yet. Maybe in a few years that will be different.
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I figured spending the extra money for a maxed out model would get a couple extra years before I sold it.

This is a common mistake.

You get 90% of the performance typically for say 60% of the price.

Price on hardware comes down. You're better off buying middle tier and then upgrading sooner (to avoid hardware failure as you have had).

 

[teknikal90]

i always buy bottom tier + upgrade SDD and RAM.

 

[swingerofbirch]

You mean Steve "You're holding it wrong" Jobs?

I just mean that Steve Jobs could be unscripted and say real things, whereas Tim Cook is incredibly cautious.

Steve Jobs did write you're holding it wrong. But he did have the Antennagate event where they gave out bumpers and offered extended returns, etc., not long after he wrote the "you're holding it wrong" e-mail.

In his keynotes he would say when Apple had messed up. I remember when he said Apple had missed the boat on music and was going to make up for it by starting to include CD burners around the time they introduced iTunes.

I guess the one time Tim Cook admitted a mistake was with Apple Maps. But it's just a much more careful approach.

Steve Jobs "Thoughts on Flash" was so intricately thought out:

https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

Tim Cook's letter on Apple Maps was boiler plate:

https://www.apple.com/ca/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/

And it just basically said "Apple Maps is bad. Try another app." Except it said it in the boilerplate language.

I feel like if Steve Jobs were alive and CEO, his response on the recent battery issue or this keyboard issue might be a bit more comprehensive.

We still don't know much.

The entire current line-up of MacBooks right now, save the MacBook Air, is under a repair program. I mean that's kind of a big deal for how many they sell. It puts a huge mysterious cloud over a huge business--if they sold just MacBooks they'd still be a sizeable company. But there's no Antennagate-like talk like Steve Jobs held. Seemingly no long-term plans. Just Apple selling computers where after four years you will be out of luck due to a known, admitted problem with the keyboard. I don't see how that's a normal, sustainable response to this problem.

 

[scir 91]

here's a HUGE THANK YOU to macrumors (and of course the very first guys who started this petition and that guy who made a music video on youtube singing that his keyboard won't work as he is pressing the button). yes, i obviously could have learned about this replacement program at another site yet as soon as i saw this pop up on the homepage, i made an appt. that very same evening at the genius bar at 5th ave nyc (they are open 24 hours every day) and got my early 2016 macbook approved. i had a serious issue the whole year and the pricing they offered me to repair it was $635. now i am getting it replaced for free.

 

[smirking]

I just mean that Steve Jobs could be unscripted and say real things

Steve Jobs was also rather casual in lying to your face while feigning absolute sincerity. "Macs dont get Viruses."

The term "reality distortion field" wasn't just a cute phrase that was uttered because it was cute.

I feel like if Steve Jobs were alive and CEO, his response on the recent battery issue or this keyboard issue might be a bit more comprehensive.

Quite possibly, but if Tim Cook did his best Steve Jobs impersonation, how well do think that'll go over? He's not Steve Jobs. He's got different strengths and weaknesses and he plays the game differently.

The bottom line is that Steve Jobs hand picked Tim Cook to succeed him. He knew exactly what he was doing. I'm sure he knew far more about what he was doing than any of us armchair quarterbacks do. Steve also installed Jonny Ive in a position of power that's beyond reproach so if you're frustrated with thinness and Jonny Ive's influence, you know who to thank.

 

[537635]

I have never in 30 years of computing had a keyboard fail on me outside of spilling beer on it.

Ever.

Even cheap garbage $15 external keyboards. Over the period of many years. I still had an original IBM Model M that still worked back in the early 2000s. DIN plug and all. It never died. It just became irrelevant due to the wrong connectivity on it. I wish i'd kept it in hindsight.

Keyboards are expected to work, and keep working. We've been able to make reliable keyboards for 30 plus years, one that breaks this often is simply inexcusable.

This. All of the sudden you have people here saying that 3 years or 4 years is an acceptable lifespan for a keyboard. Sure, if you're typing 10 hours a day, every day, on a laptop, outside, inside, a touch of acetone (nailpolish), etc.

I mean just think about. When has a keyboard ever failed for you in such a bizzare way (stuck keys, repeating keystrokes). Ever? I actually have also never had a keyboard fail on me before, let alone like this.

Apple used to be a hallmark of high quality for a high price and with great support. And now we're saying we don't care about that, just give us new emojis every year and we'll be good and replace these keyboards every few years.

 

[throAU]

I think we need to be a bit careful with holding Steve Jobs up as a shining example of what Apple needs.

Steve made mistakes. Plenty of them. Everybody makes mistakes.

Apparently when Steve died there were several years worth of future products in the pipe.

Either way, it is irrelevant. He's gone, and he isn't coming back.

Whoever leads Apple needs to realise that they are alienating the power users, which are a pretty vocal and influential group. The results of this may not be seen for a few years (as that's the typical replacement cycle on hardware) but they will be seen.

They're alienating those who previously bought (or recommended) apple because it was a pretty safe bet for the machine to be pretty "hassle free" for several years.

Hardware failure after several years like the discrete GPU (typically outside warranty) is one thing. Yes that sucks, but if it is out of warranty, the machine has "done its time" and failure after that is bad luck.

However a machine that repeatedly needs to go to the shop for repair inside the warranty period is entirely another.

The idea for many users (including most businesses with a sensible hardware life cycle policy) is that you can buy a machine, get a pretty much pain free three years out of it (because 3 years is a typical asset depreciation cycle for computers for taxation purposes) then sell it and move on to the new one to maintain that experience.

These machines are failing far too often inside that three year period. It doesn't matter that they are getting free repairs. Free repairs is the bare minimum this problem should be getting, but free repairs don't get you your time back.

I get it, fixing the problem (other than a free replacement temporary band-aid) may not be something Apple can do in a reasonable time frame or at all. But the end result is that customers who are repeatedly affected (and there have been plenty) are going to have a bad customer experience. Apple need to figure out how to fix that.
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This. All of the sudden you have people here saying that 3 years or 4 years is an acceptable lifespan for a keyboard. Sure, if you're typing 10 hours a day, every day, on a laptop, outside, inside, a touch of acetone (nailpolish), etc.

All of my keyboards get a pretty severe workout. 10 hours typing per day has never been an issue.

I type over 120 wpm, and i use my machines for at least 6-8 hours a day most days.

 

[orcaba]

I was in John Lewis in Kingston, UK, on Saturday and all three MBPs on display had keys that didn't work. One had ZX u/s, another the left hand CMD and another the H. Surely they won't be selling many.
I wouldn't have thought these display machines had a particularly tough life; how embarrassing that all three have keyboard problems.

 

[YourDreamCreator]

Thanks

 

[applesaucePro]

apple has become a giant unmanageable mess, again. remember when steve jobs came back and he told them all their products suck? bingo.

to fix it this time they should split the company apart. because right now apple thinks its a phone company, a car company, a computer company, a tv show production company... spin each division off dammit, and get rid of the sucky products. nobody wants to buy mediocre products, they want the best, steve knew that.

 

[manu chao]

I have a logetich keyboard that is over 10 years old. Still working as it should. I have 10 years laptop and the keyboard works fine. 3 years old laptop should not have wear and tear on keyboard, this is just ridiculous.

This is pure bad design and Apple denies it. This is effectively saying to customers, you are the one to blame when the keyboard stopped working. You have to pay up for the bad design, because guess what, warranty is gone.

Apple announcing free out-of-warranty repairs is them denying that there is a problem?

 

[throAU]

Apple announcing free out-of-warranty repairs is them denying that there is a problem?

I think perhaps the 3 years prior to admitting there is a design issue (the retina 12" came out in 2015, remember - and many people have had to pay for these repairs so far) is a case of denying there is a problem. This wasn't a problem that took a long time to surface either.

There were reports pretty much from within the first couple of months of the 12" Macbook going on sale. A friend of mine went through 3 of them inside the first few months of them being on sale.

 

[smirking]

I wouldn't have thought these display machines had a particularly tough life; how embarrassing that all three have keyboard problems.

Someone earlier commented that display units actually do have a pretty tough life. People intentionally abuse them to see if they hold up before deciding to make a purchase.

 

[bluecoast]

I think perhaps the 3 years prior to admitting there is a design issue (the retina 12" came out in 2015, remember - and many people have had to pay for these repairs so far) is a case of denying there is a problem. This wasn't a problem that took a long time to surface either.

There were reports pretty much from within the first couple of months of the 12" Macbook going on sale. A friend of mine went through 3 of them inside the first few months of them being on sale.

Apple: please stop making products that are thinner and lighter.

Every year, it used to be really exciting when Apple announced a new version of an iPod, Mac and then iPhone which was both thinner and lighter than before.

Now I dread Apple announcing this.

We’re now long past the point of diminishing returns with this.

Thinner and lighter now means:

• Thermally throttled (all Macs apart from the iMac Pro)
• Prone to overheating even though they’re thermally throttled (MBP)
• Unable to replace components (memory/SSD) that were previously relatively easy or trivial to replace (iMac, MB, MBP)
• Lack of durability - thin and light means easier to bend.
• And of course repair bills being eye watering high due to the construction of these thin products (MB, MBP)

I’m getting fed up with this obsession with thinness and lightness compromising function.

I’ve always thought that Apple’s ‘secret sauce’ was a perfect balance in its hardware of the Bauhaus doctrine of ‘form and function’.

Nowadays it seems more like it’s 60% form over function - and rising.

 

[smirking]

This. All of the sudden you have people here saying that 3 years or 4 years is an acceptable lifespan for a keyboard. Sure, if you're typing 10 hours a day, every day, on a laptop, outside, inside, a touch of acetone (nailpolish), etc.

Yeah, I'm the guy who was saying that a keyboard only needs to last four years... except that's not what I said.

I said four years is a fair amount of time to cover a keyboard. Hopefully it lasts longer than that, but four years is a pretty robust warranty. Besides that, if your keyboard is fine after 2 years, it'll probably be fine after 3 or 4 as well. Most of the reports of failure that I've been reading are people who've only had their MBP a few months. I can't recall anyone reporting a first failure after 18 months.
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Apple: please stop making products that are thinner and lighter.

Thinner and lighter wasn't a selling point to me before. It is now. I love how light my tbMBP is. My shoulder and neck love it even more. I have to carry this thing around a lot.

That said, I wouldn't mind if it was just a little less thin if that would make the keyboards less volatile, but please do give me the lightest laptop you can without gutting it of power.

 

[Falhófnir]

Apple: please stop making products that are thinner and lighter.

Every year, it used to be really exciting when Apple announced a new version of an iPod, Mac and then iPhone which was both thinner and lighter than before.

Now I dread Apple announcing this.

We’re now long past the point of diminishing returns with this.

Thinner and lighter now means:

• Thermally throttled (all Macs apart from the iMac Pro)
• Prone to overheating even though they’re thermally throttled (MBP)
• Unable to replace components (memory/SSD) that were previously relatively easy or trivial to replace (iMac, MB, MBP)
• Lack of durability - thin and light means easier to bend.
• And of course repair bills being eye watering high due to the construction of these thin products (MB, MBP)

I’m getting fed up with this obsession with thinness and lightness compromising function.

I’ve always thought that Apple’s ‘secret sauce’ was a perfect balance in its hardware of the Bauhaus doctrine of ‘form and function’.

Nowadays it seems more like it’s 60% form over function - and rising.

Worth pointing out in the thermals, the 2016-17 MacBook pros actually do better than the 2012-2015 ones, and are a huge improvement over the unibody generation notorious for cooking their GPUs! Granted in part this is down to cooler running CPU’s, but the thermal design in this instance hasn’t been affected by the drive for thinner. That’s not to say no sacrifices have been made (cough, keyboard) but in terms of thermal management the MBPs are actually doing better than ever, even if not perfect (limited on the GPU side options in particular)

 

[Val-kyrie]

That is great news. I've been thinking about selling the Macbook right before my two-year store warranty runs out - purely because of concerns about the keyboard. Now I can think about it the way I always did with Apple products - as an investment that will last me years.

What will you do when you approach the end of the extended warranty for the keyboard at the four year mark?

This laptop is not "good" from a reliability perspective. The keyboard warranty may last four years but it will be replaced with the same faulty keyboard.

While it is not my daily driver, I still use my 2008 BlackBook for certain tasks. 10 years old! Now that is reliability.

Did I mention I have never had a keyboard issue?

PS--I have had no hardware issues with it apart from replacing its hard drive. Try doing that with these sealed units.

 

[Abazigal]

apple has become a giant unmanageable mess, again. remember when steve jobs came back and he told them all their products suck? bingo.

to fix it this time they should split the company apart. because right now apple thinks its a phone company, a car company, a computer company, a tv show production company... spin each division off dammit, and get rid of the sucky products. nobody wants to buy mediocre products, they want the best, steve knew that.

The whole point of Apple is to have an integrated ecosystem. What’s the point of breaking the company up and giving all that up?

 

[Falhófnir]

The whole point of Apple is to have an integrated ecosystem. What’s the point of breaking the company up and giving all that up?

It tends to be how businesses work, the bigger and more diversified and more unwieldy they become, the less competitive they become and the more ripe for takeover, spinning divisions off or otherwise restructuring and breaking up. P&O is a good recent example of a comparable superlative company in its field.

 

[Abazigal]

It tends to be how businesses work, the bigger and more diversified and more unwieldy they become, the less competitive they become and the more ripe for takeover, spinning divisions off or otherwise restructuring and breaking up. P&O is a good recent example of a comparable superlative company in its field.

Apple is nothing at all like those companies.

 

[Falhófnir]

Apple is nothing at all like those companies.

Apple isn’t as exceptional as some seem to think, it’s subject to the same external forces as any other - if it becomes better for shareholders to sell and restructure, it will be done

 

[Val-kyrie]

a repair is not a redesign

the problems will happen again and again and again

This is not a repair program; this is a replacement program.

A repair program implies the problem is fixed. This is not a fix! Apple simply replaces the faulty keyboard with another keyboard with the same faulty design. The problem will simply continue to occur until the laptop is retired.

 

[maflynn]

Apple is nothing at all like those companies.

I'd say that beaucracy has certainly crept into Apple, and they are no longer as nimble as they used to be.

I forget where I read it, but I came across some blogs that people were complaing about the slowness in interacting with Apple over some work projects. I'm a bit hesitant to say it, only because I cannot back it up. So for now, I'm not making a statement of fact, but rather opinion that being so large and successful has casued them int incur a level of beaucracy that is slowing them down.