Apple Launching A9X-Based 12.9" iPad Pro in November for $799+

[spinedoc77]

Again, it comes down to the software. The iPad Pro is a good tablet simply because of the quantity of quality touch-optimized apps. Even Microsoft knows that the Surface isn't so good as a tablet as evidenced by NEVER advertising the Surface without the TypeCover. Of course you knew that'd be my answer.

The problem is, the iPad Pro is simply that, a good tablet. It doesn't make any advances beyond tablet. For those of us who were expecting Apple to move the iPad closer to that line of convergence (between tablet and ultrabook) it is a pretty big let-down. No support for mice/trackpads, USB peripherals are two areas where the iPad Pro falls short.

Microsoft is moving the Surface from the ultrabook side of things closer to that point of convergence.



Again, I am of the opposite opinion. I think that the Surface is a terrific ultrabook.

I think MS advertises the way it does because 1) the keyboard is such an incredible attachment, and it means more money for MS if they convince you to buy it and 2) they are competing against the MacBook, even with the iPad pro they will still market it with the keyboard because that is how Apple will market the iPad pro as well.

I definitely don't disagree on the apps, although this is a running debate between us =) I'd rather have the power of programs versus watered down apps, and virtually any app you have on iOS has some kind of representation on Windows, although in many cases of lower quality or functionality, but in many other cases of much higher functionality. Then it becomes a function of which apps the individual user needs. I definitely see your point in that the ecosystem can make the pro a better tablet, but by the same token the ecosystem can make the surface a better tablet as well.

Yeah and no mouse support on the iPad pro is incredibly baffling, is Apple really that stupid? I have no doubt that mouse support is forthcoming, but I'm really surprised that they launched without something like that.

 

[sracer]

Yeah and no mouse support on the iPad pro is incredibly baffling, is Apple really that stupid? I have no doubt that mouse support is forthcoming, but I'm really surprised that they launched without something like that.

The lack of mouse support was what finally killed it for me. A close second would be the cost of the peripherals. $170 for the keyboard is obscene. I thought that the $140 for the Surface TypeCover was too high. $170 for a "cloth covered" keyboard with no backlighting... ugh.

I'm also waiting to hear about the iPad Pro's "lapability". I predict that it will magically be better than the Surface. /s

 

[TheHateMachine]

I'm also waiting to hear about the iPad Pro's "lapability". I predict that it will magically be better than the Surface. /s

Oh yea, when I saw this I had flashbacks to the verge video where the guy is trying to contort himself in odd ways to make the surface not work right on his lap, then bemoan it. I bet if the same guy reviewed this watered down Surface clone he would not be as critical.

 

[Nausicaa]

Anyhow I'm not putting down your choice of the iPad pro, I just hate to see the surface pro put down unnecessarily. It's a complete little beast as I'm sure the iPad pro will be in it's niche with whatever works with iOS. I haven't heard if it will have mouse support, if not then I would see that as a massive disruption of my work flow, actually not a disruption but a total obliteration.

It can be tough to convey in words something as personal as user experience on these devices. Likewise, I feel the Pro is a good product overall, but for a device I intend to primarily use in a mobile capacity, it doesn't work for me. The sluggish comment, I perhaps phrased poorly. No doubt the Pro line are fast machines, but I just meant the overall experience of using a desktop OS is slower than an iPad. iPad I hit the home button and touch an app icon and I'm ready to go in seconds. Surface is plenty fast, but everything about it is a bit more resource and task intensive to get moving. It's not a huge deal, just a small user experience preference. The kickstand isn't terrible or anything, I just prefer hardware to be as simple as possible, and the kickstand just doesn't need to be there IMO. Again it positions the device as more of a laptop with tablet features than anything. It's fine if that's what you want, but not to my preference.

Honestly I really do like the Surface line, despite my harsh sounding comments. These are just a few of the things that have turned me off in the past - even if the concept is exciting. I'm still looking forward to the Pro 4 and getting some hands on time with it and Win10. I feel like with Skylake, the MS acquisiton of N-trig, and Win10, it could be a real winner. I'm in the market for either a Pro 4 or iPad Pro this year - they both have their upsides and drawbacks. I just tend to value an overall balanced user experience vs. raw functionality - and the iPad generally strikes that balance while sacrificing some functionality.

 

[Lennholm]

Because the iPad (any of them!) is running an OS 100% designed for touch. Windows isn't designed for 100% touch.

There's no such thing as an OS 100% designed for touch since the touch is only part of the top-level I/O. Only the UI and its APIs in iOS is 100% designed for touch (nothing else is relevant to it). It has the same kernel as OS X and Apple's choice to use different core APIs and services because they want it to be more restricted has nothing to do with it being used on touch devices.
Windows 10 is the same OS with the same capabilities regardless of which platform it's used on and it has a complete UI for touch devices in addition to a complete traditional UI. So, in other words, the touch UI of Windows 10 is 100% designed for touch devices just as iOS' touch UI is 100% designed for touch devices.
Btw, I don't know details on TVOS but I'm willing to bet that it's pretty much the exact same OS as iOS apart from the I/O layer.

 

[Star-fire]

A Pro machine should have a micro SD card slot and full OS.

 

[manu chao]

Seriously? You think they would sell it for the same price without the camera?

Yes. Did they increase the price of the iPad when they added a camera?

 

[flux73]

All true, but

1- You have to have some apps that allow you to do so
2- You have to have enough storage if you want to record an album
3- There are plenty of touch interfaces (including iDevice) that can be used via OSC. Logic itself is controllable via iPhone, as well as many Korg and Arturia, or Ableton.

1 - The device has to come out first. Apps will follow.
2 - Lots of online storage options. iCloud now has 1 TB for $10 per month.
3 - That's fine if you're in a studio. There may be a lot of individual small artists who might want a simpler, more portable setup. A larger screen provides less compromise. So does a processor that, if the estimated Geekbench scores are right, will match a 2009 Mac Pro, and exceed a 2015 13" Retina Macbook Pro.

 

[sudo1996]

Of course it has a filesystem, what - I guess - you're looking for is something like a Finder app to browse the contents of it, right? Apple has long gone out of its way to try to simplify file usage, and that's never going to change in iOS.

It doesn't work for work. You hit too many dead ends or have to deal with too many workarounds trying to send and receive files. You maybe can get it to work, probably using Dropbox as a crutch, but by then you should question why you tried replacing a MacBook, which can do all these things without any problems, with an iPad in the first place.

 

[sudo1996]

WOW ... NO iPad Air 3 ... unbelievable. MY Apple ecosystem experience has slid downhill considerably TODAY.

Imagine how we Mac Pro users feel.

 

[AirunJae]

Nice but needs a better camera and more memory. My iPod has the same specs...given the other features...I'm a buyer...

More memory I'm totally on board with, as I think 32 GB on a $800 device is criminal. But you aren't one of those people taking pictures with your iPad in public people are you?

 

[toke lahti]

Already possible as long as you have a fast network connection. Just leave a suitable desktop server running on your Mac. There are over a dozen Remote Desktop and VNC apps in the App Store for the iPad. I imagine several will be updated for the Pro size in the next few months.

This should work well for everything except low latency gaming, where you might want to stick with native iOS apps instead of streaming your Mac desktop.

Have you tried to draw something with iDisplay or AirDisplay?
Wifi is too slow and too much latency.

I call maximum BS on this, my surface pro 3 in NO way lags. I own 2 of them, one for personal use and the one I use at work drives 2 4k monitors, runs 6 or 7 programs at the same time including my EHR software which is a beast and takes a lot of power, while running a remote desktop where I see my billing, and running a couple of Dicom viewers with MRI studies open on them (memory hungry buggers) and 3 or 4 internet windows with several tabs open on each of them.

Well illustrated difference between a real computer and an idevice.
Imagine how nice it would be if you could connect 2 4k monitors to ipad?
Or if it had usb, sd-card, etc. what normal computers have.
Instead half of ipadPro's volume is used by battery and the other half by laudspeakers...
Ipad could be all the things Surface is and more. Beaty of computer is that unused features does not degrade the experience. But Apple chose not to do it like computer, but oversimplified media consuming device, which is advertised to be for "creative" people, to whom the macs are targeted for. Two totally different systems targeted to same people? Maybe ipadPro is for Professional mediaconsumers?

Only positive thing that may come out of this is that maybe someday in the future, you'll get a real good display, that you can draw to, which costs only less than a thousand more than same display without a touch system. 20 years ago "digital paper" seemed to be just around the corner and it still seems...

 

[firewood]

Have you tried to draw something with iDisplay or AirDisplay?

That's not the proper creative Pro use model. Instead one will draw with an iPad Pro native app, and then do any scripting and heavy-duty non-low-latency processing needed on their Mac Pro (or remote render farm) from the iPad Pro's virtual desktop. There will be apps ecosystems designed for this use model. Best of both worlds. iOS using the integrated iPad Pro electronics can be better tuned for low latency drawing than either a Wacom driver or a Windows app.

 

[rowspaxe]

I'm also waiting to hear about the iPad Pro's "lapability". I predict that it will magically be better than the Surface. /s

Waiting for this as well--especially on the Verge after laughable suface3 lap posing

 

[rowspaxe]

Only positive thing that may come out of this is that maybe someday in the future, you'll get a real good display, that you can draw to, which costs only less than a thousand more than same display without a touch system. 20 years ago "digital paper" seemed to be just around the corner and it still seems...

i don't follow--didnt we pass this milestone with the surface pro 1? Certainly with the sp 3. Digital paper is pretty usable but has a lot of room for improvement. If the sp 4 shows MS attention to improving its "good" pen implementation--I'll feel more optimistic. If MS decides "good" is "good enough"--we may not see real progress for a while

 

[rowspaxe]

I;ve asked this of others before, but what makes the iPad pro a good tablet versus the surface pro an OK tablet? I could never understand this, I think the surface is an awesome tablet, excelling over the iPad any day of the week.

double post

 

[rowspaxe]

I;ve asked this of others before, but what makes the iPad pro a good tablet versus the surface pro an OK tablet? I could never understand this, I think the surface is an awesome tablet, excelling over the iPad any day of the week.

I have swtiched to the Surface 3 and use it mostly as a sketch tablet. I feel like in many ways the ipad is a better tablet experience.

1) the ecosystem provided by apple is exponentially better than that by MS. And the gap is
not really closing. of course, Surface runs x64 applications which i value more than apps
and games. But for many tablet apps and games have great appeal

2) ipad handles all on/off/sleep type events far better than the surface. there are no constant
windows updates. in short--the ipad "just works"

3) i have found surface3 battery life to be in the 6-7 hour range--far less than the ipad.
Charging on the Surface 3 is insanely slow

The surface has its advantages, though. It provides a finder and cloud OneDrive solution that makes editing and storing component files very simple. Modern IE is an excellent full function browser. So dealing with You Tube or some flash based sites is far better than ios Safari.

 

[spinedoc77]

I have swtiched to the Surface 3 and use it mostly as a sketch tablet. I feel like in many ways the ipad is a better tablet experience.

1) the ecosystem provided by apple is exponentially better than that by MS. And the gap is
not really closing. of course, Surface runs x64 applications which i value more than apps
and games. But for many tablet apps and games have great appeal

2) ipad handles all on/off/sleep type events far better than the surface. there are no constant
windows updates. in short--the ipad "just works"

3) i have found surface3 battery life to be in the 6-7 hour range--far less than the ipad.
Charging on the Surface 3 is insanely slow

The surface has its advantages, though. It provides a finder and cloud OneDrive solution that makes editing and storing component files very simple. Modern IE is an excellent full function browser. So dealing with You Tube or some flash based sites is far better than ios Safari.

1) Certainly this depends on the user and which ecosystem they need. Not many good games on iOS, but that's just my personal preference. There is nothing like playing a full PC game on a tablet when you are traveling.

2) Surface handles on/off/sleep perfectly, no issues there, it "just works". The only caveat is that after 4 hours of being off the SP3 does hibernate, but it's about 5 or so seconds to open instead of instantly. Other than that it's instant. I hear you on the windows updates though, but they aren't constant, more like once every couple of weeks, but still annoying, especially now that win10 makes they mandatory.

3) Yeah this is a good point, but don't forget the regular non pro surface 3 gets great battery life, pretty close to the iPad according to anandtech. The regular surface 3 is a better comparison anywayin terms of screen size, weight and price, yet still retains a full OS.

 

[toke lahti]

i don't follow--didnt we pass this milestone with the surface pro 1? Certainly with the sp 3. Digital paper is pretty usable but has a lot of room for improvement. If the sp 4 shows MS attention to improving its "good" pen implementation--I'll feel more optimistic. If MS decides "good" is "good enough"--we may not see real progress for a while

Sorry, I meant in Apple's ecosystem. I don't earn my living by drawing, so I haven't been able to buy Cintiq ever. If it would be cheaper to get something like that, I'd enjoy it a lot, and could learn to use it with CS and all, but now I might just settle for ipad. Or maybe I should check SP4...
I've hated windows like many on this forum and still think osx is the best. iOS is easier for Apple to manage, so they should set osx free. If osx would be own independent company, you could install it to SP3 and they would have developed already a nice hybrid UI with both traditional and touch based interface.

 

[anthorumor]

The iPad Pro has a three-dot Smart Connector. Why doesn't the Apple Pen simply charge from here instead? Surely you could pop off the keyboard for 30 seconds to activate its fast charge. That Lightning connector solution seems very backward - I mean, the pen will stick out and you will lose the cap.

 

[wyarp]

I don't see where in this case they made it "really good" over the competition advanced or expanded. It's a crippled wanna be Surface Pro. Unless you are comparing it to Samsung's pro tablet... which is actually pretty good and due for a refresh.

The iPad Pro is a blow up iPad with the innards the iPad air will get as hand me downs. It really can't be taken seriously as a pro-device running the same IOS as all the other models (or IOS at all for that matter).

Sorry, but I really think Microsoft is winning this segment. Even Apple devout are loving on the Surface. Now that the mess of Windows8 is solved... it's a near perfect machine. Can't wait for the 4, and I can actually do pro work on it. Oh, and the for the same price tag, get laptop specs.... and that's what I REALLY want to see from Apple. They should have been first to that party, not last.

Well, all the reviews from people that have used the pencil say it's the best stylus they've ever used, in credibly accurate, no lag etc. So in that respect they have made it better. I don't disagree there are features here taken from the Surface, but so what? People are always taking ideas from Apple to make their copycat products! Also, people complain when Apple products don't have certain feature that Android or MS have.... then when they do people still complain!

 

[wyarp]

No trackpad area for the smart keyboard.... just saying.

I'm confused..... why would you need a trackpad?

 

[Deschodt]

People are always taking ideas from Apple to make their copycat products! Also, people complain when Apple products don't have certain feature that Android or MS have.... then when they do people still complain!

Agreed. My complaint is purely price based. The entry level model at $800+tax for a 32GB tablet is rude.
The fully specced 128 with keyb + pencil, Applecare (would you risk dropping it?) and tax is likely $1600 out the door.

That's just crazy pricing, more than usual even by Apple standards.

 

[AppleWarMachine]

Apple Pencil with "ink" selections... Hmm

unless the top of this pencil is an eraser, then it should be called Apple Pen

 

[Traverse]

@sracer

Curiosity got the better of me and I installed the iOS 9.1 beta on my iPad 3.

As someone who is very critical of the iPad 3, I'll be completely honest. It is a noticeable improvement. Is it "snappy" no. Does it change the experience? Not dramatically, but it is noticeable. Some of the core issues I had such as slow reading list sync, apps flashing when you re-enter them, app switcher lag, and notification center performance have not been fixed. However, I the experience is noticeably smoother in most areas. It's still horrible in the Music app and you still get a lot of white page when scrolling fast in Safari. You still get occasional stutter animations when leaving apps sometimes, but not nearly as often.

Scrolling in Safari and on the homepage is much improved. Once the app switcher is present, scrolling is much better. Lag in some places, such as swiping tabs away, is gone. Safari load times are slightly better, but still several seconds a page even on simple sites like Macrumors (I'd say 3-5 seconds, down from 6-10 seconds) Some lag, such as when you tap on icons is still present. There is terrible keyboard lag when changing cases.

Does it make me content with my iPad 3? Not really, but I still won't get an iPad Air 2 in 2015. The experience is better, which I appreciate. I still think performance is below what an $850 tablet should be, but it is 3.5 years old, so. I think, considering the much improved functionality of iOS 9 over iOS 6, the iPad 3 is okay. Considering it's age and the A5X vs Retina Display, I'd give it 6 out of 10, up from 3 out of 10. Make of that what you will.

EDIT: I just went to another Macrumors page, and suddenly scrolling is terrible again, but yet it works good on The Verge. I'll assume this is just iOS 9.1 beta issues.
EDIT 2: after letting that macrumors page sit for about 5 seconds, scrolling is good again. Maybe it's behind the scenes javascript or the ads on the page?