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That is indeed one damn fine post!

Agreed. But it certainly sounds a lot less like "Nokia won!" than what you'll see in the rest of the media. Of course, I suppose whether or not Nokia "won" depends on how much they actually received from Apple.
 
Nokia is the most stupid company. They could have RULED the cellphone market forever. They had all the opportunity but they decided to put millions of phone models instead of improving their software.
This.

For years Nokia owned the cellphone market. You just chose a different nokia model as your next phone every time.
Where did they go wrong ? Slow to get non-stylus touchscreens maybe ?


There were so many models, but that wasn't a bad thing - that's something I dislike about apple phones/products - lack of choice.
 
Smart move by apple, they were in a position of weakness given that the 3G chipsets are covered by Nokia's patents.

I love how the apple fanboys spin it that Nokia is buckled under the pressure when apple had more to lose by going to trial not Nokia
 
1) As has been said many times before, Apple's need to license Nokia's patents was never in doubt, only the amount to be paid.

2) Nokia's lawsuit did not demand any Apple patents. Far from it. They left it up to a Delaware jury to decide on royalties, back payments, and how much Apple had hurt Nokia. That's risky business for Apple, who could've ended up owing Nokia triple the original fees in damages. That's billions of dollars.

3) Apple's patent countersuits were not going well. ITC members had written opinions that Nokia had not infringed on Apple patents.

The upshot is:

Nokia can make smartphones without Apple's IP, but Apple cannot make phones at all without Nokia's patents.
 
The Key to the Headline from NOKIA

Nokia enters into patent license agreement with Apple

Nokia entered in with Apple, not Apple enters into patent license agreement with Nokia.

Apple got what it wanted--a negotiated price and ties to the GSM Patent Pool.
 
If it wasnt for NOKIA there would be no apple i love my IPHONE 4 thanks to Nokia this phone isd possible and every cell phone maker in the world except probably Motorola who has been around a long time owes Nokia its ok to be an Apple fan boy but right is right nokia doesnt need Apples patents Apple needs Nokias patents to continue to inovate for the upcoming Iphone 5.

Actually, the patents in this case are patents that Nokia bought from Ericsson. So, Ericsson were the inventors and it's really them that all cell phone maker owes (not that this is relevant in the business world anyway so...)
 
1) As has been said many times before, Apple's need to license Nokia's patents was never in doubt, only the amount to be paid.

2) Nokia's lawsuit did not demand any Apple patents. Far from it. They left it up to a Delaware jury to decide on royalties, back payments, and how much Apple had hurt Nokia. That's risky business for Apple, who could've ended up owing Nokia triple the original fees in damages. That's billions of dollars.

3) Apple's patent countersuits were not going well. ITC members had written opinions that Nokia had not infringed on Apple patents.

The upshot is:

Nokia can make smartphones without Apple's IP, but Apple cannot make phones at all without Nokia's patents.

Sorry, but #3 is flat wrong. All but 2 of NOKIA's patent filings were thrown out by the ITC Court rulings. Only 2 patents did the ITC review panel agree to review.

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/itc-judge-rules-apple-products-do-not-infring

Apple had 13 patent infringements by Nokia pending.

Apple got a negotiated deal and access to the GSM Patent Pooling that Nokia originally was trying to exempt Apple from and extort them out of a % of their profits.

In short, Nokia didn't win. They settled with Apple by agreeing to welcome Apple aboard with the rest of the handheld manufacturers who licensed that Pool which Siemens is a big player in.

Apple had all their patents held up by ITC Judges.
 
The general consensus is that Nokia have won this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13759612
"They can both focus on their businesses now, and the dispute was settled to Nokia's advantage," said Mikael Rautanen at research group Inderes in Helsinki.

Of course, FOSS Patents too.

Now, these two companies can move forward, with Apple rightfully paying Nokia for its technology.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/14/us-nokia-apple-idUSTRE75D0Y720110614
Analysts said Nokia could be estimated to get between 1 and 2 percent of iPhone revenues, which are seen at around $43 billion this year according to a Reuters poll.
 
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The general consensus is that Nokia have won this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13759612
"This is the first positive news from Nokia for a long time. They can both focus on their businesses now, and the dispute was settled to Nokia's advantage," said Mikael Rautanen at research group Inderes in Helsinki.

Now, I haven't got a clue who got the better deal, but don't you think you'd receive a different spin if you interviewed a research group from, say, Cupertino...?
 
Now, I haven't got a clue who got the better deal, but don't you think you'd receive a different spin if you interviewed a research group from, say, Cupertino...?

From what I've read so far this morning, a fair few articles, the general consensus is that this agreement is more favourable to / a win for Nokia [rather than Apple]. So, a research group from Cupertino is a moot point, the consensus wouldn't change.

I haven't seen any such quotes from a research company in Cupertino, so this is pure speculation.
 
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Wrong again. Nokia sells much more cell phones (and more smart phones) than Apple.
More phones yes.. Mainly to Africa, and Asia.. losing marketshare in their traditional European base, not popular in America, and I've never even seen a Nokia in Japan, and not sure what your definition of a smartphone is but most statistics put the iPhone as the best selling smartphone in the world, if not the best-selling phone full stop.
 
Apple got a negotiated deal and access to the GSM Patent Pooling that Nokia originally was trying to exempt Apple from and extort them out of a % of their profits.

And you're privy to the agreement ? :rolleyes:

Seriously, this spinning of "Apple won!" is ridiculous. First Nokia was never trying to exempt Apple from anything, they wanted Apple to license the patents. Extortion is quite a big accusation given we never had the details of what Nokia asked for and the fact that Apple, unlike other players, didn't have any patents in the GSM Patent pool (so they should be paying more, they are contributing less).

In the end, this is what was going to happen all along, a negotiated deal. Nokia had been negotiating with Apple since 2007 and the lawsuit was just another negotiation tactic.

Anyone spinning this as a "win" or "loss" by Apple or Nokia is wrong.

From what I've read so far this morning, a fair few articles, the general consensus is that this agreement is more favourable to / a win for Nokia [rather than Apple]. So, a research group from Cupertino is a moot point, the consensus wouldn't change.

Except here, where it's "Apple crushed the evil Nokia!" ... and ends up paying for patents they should pay for...
 
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quasinormal said:
*LTD* said:


This company is nearly defunct. They're doomed unles WP7 saves them.........


Not everybody wants or needs a smartphone. I personally refuse to pay most of $1K for a phone. I still use a Nokia 1100.

Nokia sold 453 million phones in 2010 with a 32.6% market share.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia


When Apple entered the market Nokia was over $40 per share. They're now around 6 bucks.

Their market share is dropping faster than Richard Simmons at a San Francisco hot tub party. Their smartphone development has all but ground to a halt. Their CTO just took off on an indefinite leave of absence. They're banking on MS . . . essentially out of the frying pan and into the fire. Go ahead, put your future in Ballmer's hands. Funny stuff.

They're buyout-bait. This was hardly a victory for them. It's like losing a marathon and being given Happy Meal coupons for your trouble.

Of course, they could always go on selling dumphones and that's it. Dumbphones by a dumbcompany. Until smartphones drop in price. Or live off patent money until the well runs dry. The possibilities are endless. No, really. They are.
 
OK, so Apple therefore admitted that they were wrong. Now lets hear from LTDs of this forum how they are going to spin this. They have been claiming all along that Apple was the "innovator" here and Nokia was in the wrong.

No, they didn't admit anything.

They made a smart business decision and so did NOKIA.

In the end it is always about money. To bring these cases to a judgement by a court, many times costs more than some kind of an agreement between two parties.

Plus, it drags on and drags on. It is better to spend ones efforts on other things.

Without knowing all the details of the lawsuit AND the settlement you don't have enough info to make the statement you did.
 
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When Apple entered the market Nokia was over $40 per share. They're now around 6 bucks.

Their market share is dropping faster than Richard Simmons at a San Francisco hot tub party. Their smartphone development has all but ground to a halt. Their CTO just took off on an indefinite leave of absence. They're banking on MS . . . essentially out of the frying pan and into the fire. Go ahead, put your future in Ballmer's hands. Funny stuff.

They're buyout-bait. This was hardly a victory for them. It's like losing a marathon and being given Happy Meal coupons for your trouble.

Of course, they could always go on selling dumphones and that's it. Dumbphones by a dumbcompany. Until smartphones drop in price. Or live off patent money until the well runs dry. The possibilities are endless. No, really. They are.

You're posts are sometimes frustrating - but often times just funny in their insanity. Especially when they are 100 percent biased and disregard facts.
 
Funny... I don't view this as Nokia won or Apple won. I view it as business.

I'm guessing Apple went to Nokia for the license and Nokia wanted too much and negotiations went nowhere. So Apple decided to take the next step which is use legal negotiations to get the price down to where they wanted it to be and this is what this is all about. I've seen this tactic before and generally works.

So this is not about Apple trying to steal technology, or not pay for it. It's not about who won, it's about two companies trying to watch out for their bottom line and leveraging their strengths to get what they need. It's just a process in business. That's all.
 
That's the only money Nokia is going to make this year.

I used to think that the best phones Nokia made were their dumbphones, but it turns out that Samsung dumbphones are now better and cheaper than their Nokia equivalents. The only thing Nokia has left is their Army of lawyers and a bunch of old patents to troll the industry with. They should just sell themselves to Microsoft and get it over with.
 
More likely Nokia cowered under pressure of Apple's patents and Apple was willing to pay from the start, just not the insane amount Nokia wanted. So what's your point here.

Uh, no.

More likely Apple realized that in the US they could persist in court nearly forever dragging it out but were going to get curb stomped in Europe and elsewhere overseas.

You don't settle and pay the other guy if you're right. Especially when you have such a large amount of cash to work from. You settle when you know that pile of cash would make any settlement very expensive.
 
So Apple loses this one. Yes they lost, stop being so blind that you think they won. If they didn't steal anything and were completely in the right, there is no need to pay the other guy. If Samsung ends up paying Apple, will you say Samsung won and got exactly what they planned? Honestly now. Anyways, I just came upon this article. Sorry if someone already posted this. The last part of the article is the most interesting part after this judgement for Nokia.

http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-buying-nokia-rumor-2011-6
 
This isn't a case of one company doing wrong, or one company stealing from another. In today's broken software patent system, this is just the way business is done. You write software, some company somewhere shows up and says, hey, you owe us money for that. You get tired of this game so you buy up a bunch of patents too. Now when the company shows up you say, oh yeah? We say you owe us money too! Then they sit down at a table and figure out a nice settlement where nobody gets hurt.

It's absurd, but that's what we have today. It's not right and wrong, it's simply who has the biggest portfolio of patents and the deepest pockets. It's become a cost of doing business. Nothing personal.
 
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