dernhelm
macrumors 68000
Agreed. But it certainly sounds a lot less like "Nokia won!" than what you'll see in the rest of the media. Of course, I suppose whether or not Nokia "won" depends on how much they actually received from Apple.
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Apple Licenses Nokia Patents, Ending Lawsuits
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Agreed. But it certainly sounds a lot less like "Nokia won!" than what you'll see in the rest of the media. Of course, I suppose whether or not Nokia "won" depends on how much they actually received from Apple.
This.
For years Nokia owned the cellphone market. You just chose a different nokia model as your next phone every time.
Where did they go wrong ? Slow to get non-stylus touchscreens maybe ?
There were so many models, but that wasn't a bad thing - that's something I dislike about apple phones/products - lack of choice.
kdarling
Contributor
1) As has been said many times before, Apple's need to license Nokia's patents was never in doubt, only the amount to be paid.
2) Nokia's lawsuit did not demand any Apple patents. Far from it. They left it up to a Delaware jury to decide on royalties, back payments, and how much Apple had hurt Nokia. That's risky business for Apple, who could've ended up owing Nokia triple the original fees in damages. That's billions of dollars.
3) Apple's patent countersuits were not going well. ITC members had written opinions that Nokia had not infringed on Apple patents.
The upshot is:
Nokia can make smartphones without Apple's IP, but Apple cannot make phones at all without Nokia's patents.
2) Nokia's lawsuit did not demand any Apple patents. Far from it. They left it up to a Delaware jury to decide on royalties, back payments, and how much Apple had hurt Nokia. That's risky business for Apple, who could've ended up owing Nokia triple the original fees in damages. That's billions of dollars.
3) Apple's patent countersuits were not going well. ITC members had written opinions that Nokia had not infringed on Apple patents.
The upshot is:
Nokia can make smartphones without Apple's IP, but Apple cannot make phones at all without Nokia's patents.
mdriftmeyer
macrumors 68040
The Key to the Headline from NOKIA
Nokia entered in with Apple, not Apple enters into patent license agreement with Nokia.
Apple got what it wanted--a negotiated price and ties to the GSM Patent Pool.
Nokia entered in with Apple, not Apple enters into patent license agreement with Nokia.
Apple got what it wanted--a negotiated price and ties to the GSM Patent Pool.
Actually, the patents in this case are patents that Nokia bought from Ericsson. So, Ericsson were the inventors and it's really them that all cell phone maker owes (not that this is relevant in the business world anyway so...)
mdriftmeyer
macrumors 68040
Sorry, but #3 is flat wrong. All but 2 of NOKIA's patent filings were thrown out by the ITC Court rulings. Only 2 patents did the ITC review panel agree to review.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/itc-judge-rules-apple-products-do-not-infring
Apple had 13 patent infringements by Nokia pending.
Apple got a negotiated deal and access to the GSM Patent Pooling that Nokia originally was trying to exempt Apple from and extort them out of a % of their profits.
In short, Nokia didn't win. They settled with Apple by agreeing to welcome Apple aboard with the rest of the handheld manufacturers who licensed that Pool which Siemens is a big player in.
Apple had all their patents held up by ITC Judges.
Stella
macrumors G3
The general consensus is that Nokia have won this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13759612
"They can both focus on their businesses now, and the dispute was settled to Nokia's advantage," said Mikael Rautanen at research group Inderes in Helsinki.
Of course, FOSS Patents too.
Now, these two companies can move forward, with Apple rightfully paying Nokia for its technology.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/14/us-nokia-apple-idUSTRE75D0Y720110614
Analysts said Nokia could be estimated to get between 1 and 2 percent of iPhone revenues, which are seen at around $43 billion this year according to a Reuters poll.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13759612
"They can both focus on their businesses now, and the dispute was settled to Nokia's advantage," said Mikael Rautanen at research group Inderes in Helsinki.
Of course, FOSS Patents too.
Now, these two companies can move forward, with Apple rightfully paying Nokia for its technology.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/14/us-nokia-apple-idUSTRE75D0Y720110614
Analysts said Nokia could be estimated to get between 1 and 2 percent of iPhone revenues, which are seen at around $43 billion this year according to a Reuters poll.
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NickFalk
macrumors 6502
Now, I haven't got a clue who got the better deal, but don't you think you'd receive a different spin if you interviewed a research group from, say, Cupertino...?
Stella
macrumors G3
From what I've read so far this morning, a fair few articles, the general consensus is that this agreement is more favourable to / a win for Nokia [rather than Apple]. So, a research group from Cupertino is a moot point, the consensus wouldn't change.
I haven't seen any such quotes from a research company in Cupertino, so this is pure speculation.
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gorgeousninja
macrumors 6502
More phones yes.. Mainly to Africa, and Asia.. losing marketshare in their traditional European base, not popular in America, and I've never even seen a Nokia in Japan, and not sure what your definition of a smartphone is but most statistics put the iPhone as the best selling smartphone in the world, if not the best-selling phone full stop.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
And you're privy to the agreement ? 🙄
Seriously, this spinning of "Apple won!" is ridiculous. First Nokia was never trying to exempt Apple from anything, they wanted Apple to license the patents. Extortion is quite a big accusation given we never had the details of what Nokia asked for and the fact that Apple, unlike other players, didn't have any patents in the GSM Patent pool (so they should be paying more, they are contributing less).
In the end, this is what was going to happen all along, a negotiated deal. Nokia had been negotiating with Apple since 2007 and the lawsuit was just another negotiation tactic.
Anyone spinning this as a "win" or "loss" by Apple or Nokia is wrong.
Except here, where it's "Apple crushed the evil Nokia!" ... and ends up paying for patents they should pay for...
Oletros
macrumors 603
*LTD*
macrumors G4
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)
When Apple entered the market Nokia was over $40 per share. They're now around 6 bucks.
Their market share is dropping faster than Richard Simmons at a San Francisco hot tub party. Their smartphone development has all but ground to a halt. Their CTO just took off on an indefinite leave of absence. They're banking on MS . . . essentially out of the frying pan and into the fire. Go ahead, put your future in Ballmer's hands. Funny stuff.
They're buyout-bait. This was hardly a victory for them. It's like losing a marathon and being given Happy Meal coupons for your trouble.
Of course, they could always go on selling dumphones and that's it. Dumbphones by a dumbcompany. Until smartphones drop in price. Or live off patent money until the well runs dry. The possibilities are endless. No, really. They are.
quasinormal said:
When Apple entered the market Nokia was over $40 per share. They're now around 6 bucks.
Their market share is dropping faster than Richard Simmons at a San Francisco hot tub party. Their smartphone development has all but ground to a halt. Their CTO just took off on an indefinite leave of absence. They're banking on MS . . . essentially out of the frying pan and into the fire. Go ahead, put your future in Ballmer's hands. Funny stuff.
They're buyout-bait. This was hardly a victory for them. It's like losing a marathon and being given Happy Meal coupons for your trouble.
Of course, they could always go on selling dumphones and that's it. Dumbphones by a dumbcompany. Until smartphones drop in price. Or live off patent money until the well runs dry. The possibilities are endless. No, really. They are.
No, they didn't admit anything.
They made a smart business decision and so did NOKIA.
In the end it is always about money. To bring these cases to a judgement by a court, many times costs more than some kind of an agreement between two parties.
Plus, it drags on and drags on. It is better to spend ones efforts on other things.
Without knowing all the details of the lawsuit AND the settlement you don't have enough info to make the statement you did.
You're posts are sometimes frustrating - but often times just funny in their insanity. Especially when they are 100 percent biased and disregard facts.
arcite
macrumors 65816
Popeye206
macrumors 68040
Funny... I don't view this as Nokia won or Apple won. I view it as business.
I'm guessing Apple went to Nokia for the license and Nokia wanted too much and negotiations went nowhere. So Apple decided to take the next step which is use legal negotiations to get the price down to where they wanted it to be and this is what this is all about. I've seen this tactic before and generally works.
So this is not about Apple trying to steal technology, or not pay for it. It's not about who won, it's about two companies trying to watch out for their bottom line and leveraging their strengths to get what they need. It's just a process in business. That's all.
I'm guessing Apple went to Nokia for the license and Nokia wanted too much and negotiations went nowhere. So Apple decided to take the next step which is use legal negotiations to get the price down to where they wanted it to be and this is what this is all about. I've seen this tactic before and generally works.
So this is not about Apple trying to steal technology, or not pay for it. It's not about who won, it's about two companies trying to watch out for their bottom line and leveraging their strengths to get what they need. It's just a process in business. That's all.
chagla
macrumors 6502a
you're the most intelligent person i've ever seen online. i'm honored. your mother must be proud of your achievements. 🙄
arcite
macrumors 65816
I used to think that the best phones Nokia made were their dumbphones, but it turns out that Samsung dumbphones are now better and cheaper than their Nokia equivalents. The only thing Nokia has left is their Army of lawyers and a bunch of old patents to troll the industry with. They should just sell themselves to Microsoft and get it over with.
Uh, no.
More likely Apple realized that in the US they could persist in court nearly forever dragging it out but were going to get curb stomped in Europe and elsewhere overseas.
You don't settle and pay the other guy if you're right. Especially when you have such a large amount of cash to work from. You settle when you know that pile of cash would make any settlement very expensive.
So Apple loses this one. Yes they lost, stop being so blind that you think they won. If they didn't steal anything and were completely in the right, there is no need to pay the other guy. If Samsung ends up paying Apple, will you say Samsung won and got exactly what they planned? Honestly now. Anyways, I just came upon this article. Sorry if someone already posted this. The last part of the article is the most interesting part after this judgement for Nokia.
http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-buying-nokia-rumor-2011-6
http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-buying-nokia-rumor-2011-6
NebulaClash
macrumors 68000
This isn't a case of one company doing wrong, or one company stealing from another. In today's broken software patent system, this is just the way business is done. You write software, some company somewhere shows up and says, hey, you owe us money for that. You get tired of this game so you buy up a bunch of patents too. Now when the company shows up you say, oh yeah? We say you owe us money too! Then they sit down at a table and figure out a nice settlement where nobody gets hurt.
It's absurd, but that's what we have today. It's not right and wrong, it's simply who has the biggest portfolio of patents and the deepest pockets. It's become a cost of doing business. Nothing personal.
It's absurd, but that's what we have today. It's not right and wrong, it's simply who has the biggest portfolio of patents and the deepest pockets. It's become a cost of doing business. Nothing personal.