DiamondMac
macrumors 68040
People on here admit that all the time.
Do you just purposefully overlook those posts or are saying this for the "cool" effect online?
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Apple Licenses Nokia Patents, Ending Lawsuits
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People on here admit that all the time.
Do you just purposefully overlook those posts or are saying this for the "cool" effect online?
You couldn't be more wrong.
In business settlements are made all the time, even if one party appears to be in the right and would get a judgement in their favor.
It is just smart business and cheaper to go on and negotiate a good deal. These suits can carry on for years, so whatever you'd eventually gained you paid for already.
As pop eye wrote companies use lawsuits as negotiating tactics.
In the sense neither one of them cares who is called the winner or loser.
Why the press or anti Apple or anti Nokia people need to determine a winner or loser is beyond me.
Headlines to sell more papers?
Gasu E.
macrumors 603
Nokia doesn't need Apple's patents, but they do need Apple's money. Their profitability is terrible.
Once Nokia was a proud name and a leader. Now they are selling nothing in quantity except commodity products with razor-thin margins. As a once-time leader in cellular handsets, they still own a lot of valuable intellectual property that is needed to built a modern handset. Good for them. Licensing revenues are what is keeping the lights on in Nokia these days.
As I recall from reading the court filings (months ago), Nokia was pretty careful about *not* explicitly saying Apples claims in that regard were false. They put a different spin on the situation (obviously), but I don't recall them claiming Apple was lying about anything in their filing.
kdarling
Contributor
Different topics. You're talking about a few Nokia patents; my #3 was about Apple's countersuit patents: ITC staff says Nokia did not violate Apple patents
More importantly, the ITC just decided last week to re-investigate Nokia's claims against Apple. No doubt that was partly behind Apple's decision to make a deal.
Again, there was no doubt that Apple needed to license Nokia's patents. Apple was simply delaying as long as possible in order to make their profit margin look better for the short term, while denying Nokia helpful income.
Can't argue with anything here, except that we do have details of what Nokia asked for originally from the court filings. Some of the details were disputed, but a careful reading at the time left the impression that Nokia never actually denied pressing for access to Apple's patents as part of the license cost.
Apple likely won by getting a RAND license (as required by the standards body rules), and Nokia won by getting a license agreement signed with Apple.
For all the people claiming that Nokia 'lost' or Apple 'lost', remember Life is not a zero-sum game. For one party to win the others do not have to lose.
Oletros
macrumors 603
why do you keep on repeating yourself? If you don't know anything, stop asking and find it out and tell us. Otherwise....keep it to yourself.
If my recollection is correct, Nokia had previously licensed based on a percentage of the value of each unit. That probably made sense in simple phones, but in smartphones, Apple would have been paying a much higher unit price for the identical technolgy, as would any smartphone maker.
This is where the fair and reasonable pricing was disputed by Apple.
Of course Apple should have and did contest this.
It now appears that there was an agreement made that was more favorable to Apple than Nokia original offering, while at the same time, establishing a benchmark that other smartphone makers would have to license against.
Nokia wins as the company establishes a benchmark for licensing to smartphone manufacturers, Apple wins as the licensing costs are more favorably than what Nokia had previously brought to the table, and Android's low cost business model takes another hit with added costs to the manufacturer.
The impact of MS patents on as yet unlicensed smartphone manufacturers and Oracle Java patents on the Android OS are unknown, but overall, I would say that collectively, these could have added impact on Android handset manufacturers, favorable to Nokia, MS, Apple and probably WebOS as well.
Oletros
macrumors 603
cmaier
Suspended
But they didn't. One thing seems clear - Nokia gets no access to apple's IP, which seems to be what apple was worried about.
At any rate, this very positive for Nokia. They can now concentrate or focus on their strategies. Honestly, I like Nokia to survive this and once again to be one of the top mobile companies......
oh god, this thread is full of fanboys. Nobody won, Nokia didn't win, Apple didn't win. This is business. Nokia was going to be paid no matter what, they were. Apple was going to pay, they did. Everyone calm down. This is how business is done every single day.
And to people saying Nokia will fail: Aren't you tired of repeating the same old thing for the last 10 years? Nokia is not going anywhere, they been here the longest and they will remain here when others are gone. And do you kids even understand economics? At all? Remember, more choices we have, better off we are in this world. You will learn this in college.
And to people saying Nokia will fail: Aren't you tired of repeating the same old thing for the last 10 years? Nokia is not going anywhere, they been here the longest and they will remain here when others are gone. And do you kids even understand economics? At all? Remember, more choices we have, better off we are in this world. You will learn this in college.
Oletros
macrumors 603
We don't know, Apple said no, Nokia said yes.
We also don't know if they have access or if Nokia tried to have access.
Let's get some facts right -- in layman's terms, OK?
Apple was liable to pay the standard licence fee for using stuff that Nokia had contributed to the world-wide standards for mobile communications. Apple never disputed the licence fee. Nokia fell asleep at the wheel thinking the iPhone would sink, but when Apple started taking market share from Nokia, Nokia decided it wanted higher licence fees from Apple than other phone manufacturers.
Apple got pissed off and said SOSUMI (if you use a Mac, look in the Sound PrefPane under the Sound Effects tab and then google it for its origins).
Then both companies started having a go at each other -- this was probably settled by Bill Gates making a call to Nokia and telling them to stop being childish and concentrate on producing the new MS phone.
rdowns
macrumors Penryn
Yeah, cause the lawyers will now take off their ties, roll up their sleeves and get to work on polishing Lion and iOS 5. 🙄
Mattie Num Nums
macrumors 68030
How can you say Nokia didn't win on this. Nokia is going to get rightfully paid for the technology they developed that Apple was trying to use for free.
Oletros
macrumors 603
That's the nub of it originally though wasn't it.
Nokia said they offered FRAND based on the same percentage that everyone else pays or some combo of payments + cross licencing. Apple disagreed that smartphones should be the same percentage as dumbphones and didn't want to cross licence.
And we're not going to get any closer to solving this unless details of the deal leak out.
That's pure speculation not fact since neither Apple nor Nokia nor any of the other manufacturers have let on what the licence fees actually are.
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I agree, Apple eventually had to settle, and Nokia who'd lost 25% in market capitalization since MAY 30, has lost drastic marketshare to companies like Samsung.
Elop (Nokia's new CEO) had to settle this and move the company forward or join Kodak.
Not true....
The GSM patent pool, works in that you pay less for other licenses if you contribute more IP to the pool.
as Apple were unwilling to contribute any IP to the pool they were told to pay top whack for the licenses.
so, yes technically more than anyone else..but for a good reason.
No chance Nokia has caved on the amounts as if so then all the other contributors would want their extra slice too!
aristotle
macrumors 68000
Uh, no. They invented some GSM technology. I think everyone would agree that the iPod Touch is basically an iPhone without a cellular chip in it right? Everyone would also agree that the Verizon iPhone is also an iPhone but without GSM technology right?
Ok, now if I turn it on its side then the iPhone is basically an iPod touch with a cellular chip in it. What other parts of the iPhone besides the cellular chip in the GSM iPhones and the cellular software stack that communicates with it are legitimately covered by Nokia patents? In my estimation, 95% of the GSM iPhone was not based on inventions originated at Nokia.
@archipellago: But what you are missing is that the patent pool was originally meant only for patents related to GSM cellular networking but Nokia wanted Apple to contribute multi-touch patents to the pool which are not cellphone specific are are used in Apple's non-phone products.
Bluethree
macrumors regular
To be frank the nonsense that you are posting in this thread devalues any credability you have to the level of the following:
