Apple Likely Aiming for Late October Launch of Redesigned MacBook Pro

[johngwheeler]

Then 1) Apple is run by a bunch of idiots for waiting on chips than don't exist rather than building computers around the chips that do. Like everybody else. And 2) it is just hilarious that some people seem to think Apple is right for selling 3 year old tech as if it were new while waiting for these chips to show up.



There are plenty of appropriate CPUs and GPUs. Apple just needs to have the courage to keep up with modern times and choose modern chips.

Because the 15" MBP is just so much more capable than the MSI-GS62 right? Same form factor yet the MSI has an i7 quad core skylake, a gtx 970, a 4k screen, and multiple industry standard drive bays. The updated version with Kaby and the GTX 1070 should be hitting the street before the MBP refresh. And unlike Apple, there are some fantastic deals on the MSI machines right now because they're almost a year out of date. And if you don't mind going a bit thicker than the MBP, MSI has some amazingly powerful machines. If you prefer thinner, Razer makes some amazing MBA killers.

Interesting! The MSI machines do indeed look quite capable, but as has been noted, the Skylake CPUs they use (i7-6700HQ) don't have the IrisPro graphics - but if you have the gtx970, it's arguable that you don't need it.

Apple certainly could have used Broadwell parts on the MBP 15 if they wanted. I imagine they simply considered the cost of upgrading the CPU (which must have some re-design and re-tooling cost) and their market for this machine, and simply decided it wasn't worth it for them. Same story for the Mac Mini and Mac Pro - just not enough market share to really affect profits if a few people are offput buying them due to the older CPUs. In the case of the Mac Pro, I expect they analysed the median professional user replacement cycle and thought that most people use these machines for about 5 years (no idea, but it sounds reasonable), and so their upgrade cycle will align to this. As a new buyer though, you generally don't want hardware more than a year old, so they do lose out on this market. I saw a guy in an Apple store buying a Mac Pro a couple of weeks ago and thought - "don't do it!" - but maybe he needed it and just couldn't wait for the rumors to resolve into reality.

 

[0388631]

The chips don't exist is a strange statement. I'm confident Intel's new chips do exist. They're simply building up numbers before they ship out. I doubt they'd be able to keep up with supply and demand if they began manufacturing the week of their release announcement. Besides, Intel's in bed with Apple, not with us. It isn't a threesome.

 

[citysnaps]

Kaby Lake "next year". That's a very funny delusion you have!

What a bunch of entitled crybabies we'll see in September 2017 when Tim Cook introduces the quad-core A101 chip in the Macintosh 1, the new line of lightweight notebook computers from Apple that will replace the MacPro, Macbook, MacbookPro, MacbookAir and MacMini and finally take humanity into the 21st century of computing. The keyboard will be replaced with a fully-multitouch second screen with haptic feedback, which feels better than mechanical keys, and when laid flat gives you effectually a 20" or 26" screen to watch movies or edit your photos on! Don't worry, if you want to keep the screen folded out as a desktop replacement, the built in proprietary W2 wireless chip will work seamlessly with a new generation of "built for Macintosh" peripherals, coming soon on the Apple Store. Unfortunately, bluetooth will no longer be supported, but don't worry, there WILL be a lightning 2.0 connector, which will be 30% smaller than lightning 1.0.

Available in 12" and 14" sizes, BTO options will include 12- or 36-month subscriptions to AppleMusic and AppleVideo, built-in 5G or Wifi-Only, real leather case and extended AppleCare+ coverage. Coming early 2018.

That was supposed to be funny?

 

[oneMadRssn]

Are you talking about all of the iterations of USB that are backwards compatible? The change to the C-type port has made old type-A accessories incompatible without a dongle, but they're still all compatible. You can use a USB 1.0 mouse from 1996 just fine with a USB 3.0 type-A port, for example, and I've used a USB 2.0 soundcard just fine via dongle with a USB-C port. Sure, new accessories with old computers is an issue (and always has been), but old USB accessories work just fine with modern computers, probably better than any other connector there is.

I'm talking about two things:

First is physical connectors. Especially in mobile, even though pin to pin they might be compatible, the physical changes are too frequent. Mini USB, Micro USB, Micro SuperSpeed USB. Sometimes there is an A-variant and a B-varient of each of these. It's a mess, especially when looking for a charger. I am not a fan of charging over USB, as opposed to a dedicated charging port.

Second is the forward compatibility you mentioned. New accessories with old computers. Except with USB, the issues seem to be new accessories with still-pretty-new computers. For example, some of the newest USB-C accessories that support the latest alternate-mode specs don't work with even the 2015 retina Macbook.

And now there is USB-C gen1 and gen2, but it's supposed to be somehow equivalent to what was previously called USB 3.0 and USB 3.1, but in the USB-C connector. Again, this whole thing is a mess and always has been.

 

[KPOM]

I'm talking about two things:

First is physical connectors. Especially in mobile, even though pin to pin they might be compatible, the physical changes are too frequent. Mini USB, Micro USB, Micro SuperSpeed USB. Sometimes there is an A-variant and a B-varient of each of these. It's a mess, especially when looking for a charger. I am not a fan of charging over USB, as opposed to a dedicated charging port.

What is your objection to charging over USB vs. a dedicated port? The advantage of USB-C is that it is a standard. I like being able to charge my MacBook with a battery pack. It's a great option for an extended flight. Plus with a multi-port charger I can reduce the number of charging devices I carry on short trips. Heck, with a USB-A to USB-C cord I can use an iPad charger (albeit much more slowly, but it's fine for overnight charging).

 

[AppleBytes]

I'm talking about two things:

First is physical connectors. Especially in mobile, even though pin to pin they might be compatible, the physical changes are too frequent. Mini USB, Micro USB, Micro SuperSpeed USB. Sometimes there is an A-variant and a B-varient of each of these. It's a mess, especially when looking for a charger. I am not a fan of charging over USB, as opposed to a dedicated charging port.

Second is the forward compatibility you mentioned. New accessories with old computers. Except with USB, the issues seem to be new accessories with still-pretty-new computers. For example, some of the newest USB-C accessories that support the latest alternate-mode specs don't work with even the 2015 retina Macbook.

And now there is USB-C gen1 and gen2, but it's supposed to be somehow equivalent to what was previously called USB 3.0 and USB 3.1, but in the USB-C connector. Again, this whole thing is a mess and always has been.

I actually think all non-charging USB-C accessories work on the 2015 retina Macbook with an adapter, but the adapter limits them to 480 MBPs.

I've never ever had issues with mini-USB vs Micro because they always ended in a USB-A connector, which is a far cry from the cluster**** that's about to happen when you can't plug your iPhone 7 charger (USB-A) into the new Macbook pro (probably USB-C only) without a dongle, despite the products being released within a quarter year of each other.

Sure, it's a pain to need 2 or 3 types of USB cables depending on what peripherals you have, but normally one end of these at least stays plugged into your hard drive or, in the case of phones, remains plugged into the wall where you charge the phone or in your purse or briefcase. Also, backwards compatibility really hasn't been much of a problem. All in all, changes in USB have been far, far less painful and relatively dongle-free compared to the change from Firewire 400 to 800 to Thunderbolt 1 to Thunderbolt 3 or from iPod connector to thunderbolt to thunderbolt-without-headphone-jack were in terms of being screwed with certain peripherals, stereo connections, etc.
[doublepost=1475198449][/doublepost]

That was supposed to be funny?

I guess it's too close to a possible truth to be funny...

 

[johngwheeler]

The chips don't exist is a strange statement. I'm confident Intel's new chips do exist. They're simply building up numbers before they ship out. I doubt they'd be able to keep up with supply and demand if they began manufacturing the week of their release announcement. Besides, Intel's in bed with Apple, not with us. It isn't a threesome.

Well, I'm fairly sure they "exist" in terms of having a completed design and prototype units undergoing testing. But getting the CPU fabrication up to speed to produce millions of units with acceptable yields is probably still a work in progress.

I would expect we will see Kaby Lake U-series 28W CPUs (with GT3e graphics) release in mid-Q1 '17 as predicted (e.g. http://wccftech.com/intel-roadmap-kaby-lake-coffee-lake-cannonlake-leak/), and maybe seeing a spec bump of the MBP 13 in April-June 2017 that includes Kaby Lake. I think it highly unlikely we will see a Kaby Lake MBP this year, unless they offer a low-end graphics option using the 15W GT2 CPU as used in the Dell XPS 13 and (probably) a forthcoming MS Surface Pro 5.

It would nice to see the MacBook Air get updated with the now-available Kaby Lake U-series 15W (GT2), but who knows what the future holds for the Air? Personally, I think Apple could have a winner if they released a Kaby Lake MBA with an improved screen, even if they left everything else untouched.

Note that Kaby Lake H-series with GT4e (i.e. suitable for MBP 15) is not even on the roadmap, and there are fears that Intel will simply drop the quad-core + Iris Pro CPU from the lineup. Possibly not fatal to the model because many will opt for a discrete GPU in any case.

 

[Val-kyrie]

And in the process, also giving consumers a very strong incentive to simply ignore USB-C and continue using their existing peripherals. Which in turn stymies the adoption of USB-C and further fragmenting standards (because USB-C becomes 'just another port' instead of unifying all of them, which by definition means replacing all these older ports in terms of functionality and use).

If you think Apple is in it only to sell more dongles, then all I can say is - you don't understand Apple.

I don't think that is Apple's only, or even primary, motive, but it is a nice ancillary effect, don't you think?

I am not saying the transition won't hurt. I am saying that it will be worth it in the end.

I agree, but I think we differ in the pace we think is practical to arrive there.

Yes, if I were to switch to a hypothetical MBP with only USB-C ports, this would all but force me to either get a bunch of adaptors and or reinvest in a bunch of USB-C accessories. They will cost more, and again, this isn't something consumers might be willing to do if they didn't feel like they had a compelling reason to do so. Someone needs to start the ball rolling. Manufacturers will only start putting more more and cheaper USB-C accessories when there is a demonstrated demand for them, which cannot happen if people continue to stick with older USB flash drives because they "still work".

And maybe in the process of changing, I can find a newer and better way of working.

The problem is the steep investment required by Apple. This will force Mac users to adapt, perhaps, but I still think the rest of the industry will arrive at the same place at the same time without as much hurt.

For instance, there is a neat monitor which connects to a laptop via USB-C and supplies both data and power. So I need to only plug in one cable (compared to the previous thunderbolt display, where I had to plug in 2). But it's made by only one company, and it isn't exactly cheap.

Again, this is my point. I love the concept of USB-C, but I think this can be accomplished gradually. People will adapt as new peripherals are released. Apple cannot force the change by itself anyway. Peripheral makers will develop USB-C peripherals whether a laptop has 1, 2, or 4 USB-C ports. It is just only newer peripherals will have USB-C connectors. Why not let people adopt gradually as they purchase new peripherals?

It is not only the financial waste of buying adapters or all new peripherals while current peripherals function, but the e-waste generated from such a sudden shift to all USB-C, if it occurred across the entire industry, would be immense.

You can argue - Why should I be forced to change when I don't want to? I too can argue - Why should your reluctance to change impact my ability to enjoy newer emerging technologies? Continue to stick with your older laptops and your older ports and don't get in the way of people who wish to embrace the future.

I like change--but gradually. This just takes a good idea taken too far. I think the rest of the industry has a better approach--introduce USB-C ports and allow peripheral makers to introduce newer peripherals using USB-C.

Neither argument is wrong, and ultimately, companies listen the market. People have a choice of whether they wish to embrace that future or be dragged towards it kicking and screaming every step of the way. Which is why I am sincerely hoping that Apple can buck the trend and help spur the USB-C market by basically doing away with every other port in their new laptops. There is a limit to how much I can spend my myself, but queueing up for USB-C peripherals if and when the time comes for me to upgrade my laptop.

I think there is another difference of opinion between us. You seem to imply that the adoption of USB-C needs to be spurred. I think it has already been spurred and now we need to allow time for things to transition.

 

[oneMadRssn]

What is your objection to charging over USB vs. a dedicated port? The advantage of USB-C is that it is a standard. I like being able to charge my MacBook with a battery pack. It's a great option for an extended flight. Plus with a multi-port charger I can reduce the number of charging devices I carry on short trips. Heck, with a USB-A to USB-C cord I can use an iPad charger (albeit much more slowly, but it's fine for overnight charging).

A few objections:

First, USB is "standard" but it fluctuates a lot - almost every year. Historically, MagSafe was unchanged for 6 years, and Magsafe2 has been going for 4 so far. In those 10 years, "standard" USB charging cables went through half a dozen or so iterations, as a comparison.

Second, it's insecure. USB allows anything you plug in firmware level access to your computer if it wants it. If you plug the USB cable into a charging brick or a charging plug from a third party, it could be compromised. There is potential for malware. Every public charging station that offers USB plugs and every convenience store charging adapter would make me think twice. This is such a real issue that Google gives some of their employees special USB cables for charging their devices; where the cables default to being charging only unless you press a button on the cable that turns it into a data cable. Sure most of the time you would use the OEM Apple charger so its not an issue, but then it's no different than using an OEM Apple MagSafe charger. A dedicated charging port doesn't have these security issues.

Third, it seems unnecessarily complex for something like charging which should be simple simple simple.

For charging on a flight - more and more flights I am on today have AC plugs between the seats anyway.
For carrying one charger - I would be fine with Apple having a dedicated USB-A to MagSafe2 charging cable. As long as it's for charging only and not a data cable, there are no security concerns.

 

[Branflaakes]

A few objections:

First, USB is "standard" but it fluctuates a lot - almost every year. Historically, MagSafe was unchanged for 6 years, and Magsafe2 has been going for 4 so far. In those 10 years, "standard" USB charging cables went through half a dozen or so iterations, as a comparison.

Second, it's insecure. USB allows anything you plug in firmware level access to your computer if it wants it. If you plug the USB cable into a charging brick or a charging plug from a third party, it could be compromised. There is potential for malware. Every public charging station that offers USB plugs and every convenience store charging adapter would make me think twice. This is such a real issue that Google gives some of their employees special USB cables for charging their devices; where the cables default to being charging only unless you press a button on the cable that turns it into a data cable. Sure most of the time you would use the OEM Apple charger so its not an issue, but then it's no different than using an OEM Apple MagSafe charger. A dedicated charging port doesn't have these security issues.

Third, it seems unnecessarily complex for something like charging which should be simple simple simple.

For charging on a flight - more and more flights I am on today have AC plugs between the seats anyway.
For carrying one charger - I would be fine with Apple having a dedicated USB-A to MagSafe2 charging cable. As long as it's for charging only and not a data cable, there are no security concerns.

Then plug your USB-charging cable into a dedicated outlet like almost everyone, and not into potentially suspicious devices to charge, in which you scenarios would take effect in approximately, what, 0.2% of all use cases?

I mean come on, this really is a non-problem that you are creating into a supposed problem because of your individual preference. It's obviously okay to have a preference, though.

 

[Freyqq]

I hope it has replaceable ram and a standard-format SSD (M.2)

 

[DevNull0]

Interesting! The MSI machines do indeed look quite capable, but as has been noted, the Skylake CPUs they use (i7-6700HQ) don't have the IrisPro graphics - but if you have the gtx970, it's arguable that you don't need it.

Apple certainly could have used Broadwell parts on the MBP 15 if they wanted. I imagine they simply considered the cost of upgrading the CPU (which must have some re-design and re-tooling cost) and their market for this machine, and simply decided it wasn't worth it for them. Same story for the Mac Mini and Mac Pro - just not enough market share to really affect profits if a few people are offput buying them due to the older CPUs. In the case of the Mac Pro, I expect they analysed the median professional user replacement cycle and thought that most people use these machines for about 5 years (no idea, but it sounds reasonable), and so their upgrade cycle will align to this. As a new buyer though, you generally don't want hardware more than a year old, so they do lose out on this market. I saw a guy in an Apple store buying a Mac Pro a couple of weeks ago and thought - "don't do it!" - but maybe he needed it and just couldn't wait for the rumors to resolve into reality.

I believe the HD 530 graphics take less power than the IrisPro so the laptop can burn less battery when not doing anything graphics intensive and then you have the gtx970 when needed.

Any given model of MBP sells a lot more units than any single model of another laptop, and Apple does have much higher margins. If the other companies can retool for a variety of intel chips, it's just inexcusable for Apple not to. And they're selling 3 year old hardware at the prices from 3 years ago. Anyone else lowers the prices over time as the parts age and get cheaper, then bump the price back up with the next generation.

Even if people generally upgrade their machines every 5 years you don't want Apple to sell 4 year old hardware 4 years into the cycle. Wherever you are in the cycle you want to be able to go in and buy a new computer. If I accidentally drop my MBP in the ocean when it's 3 years old, I don't expect to go into an Apple store and replace it with the same machine. And it does Apple no good to have a burst of sales one year and then minimal sales for 4 years. My desktop has a GTX970 actually, and it's a great card that does everything I need. I have no intention of replacing it. But there is no way I would buy one today. I'd buy a GTX1070.

 

[Mac 128]

I actually think all non-charging USB-C accessories work on the 2015 retina Macbook with an adapter, but the adapter limits them to 480 MBPs.

I've never ever had issues with mini-USB vs Micro because they always ended in a USB-A connector, which is a far cry from the cluster**** that's about to happen when you can't plug your iPhone 7 charger (USB-A) into the new Macbook pro (probably USB-C only) without a dongle, despite the products being released within a quarter year of each other.

Sure, it's a pain to need 2 or 3 types of USB cables depending on what peripherals you have, but normally one end of these at least stays plugged into your hard drive or, in the case of phones, remains plugged into the wall where you charge the phone or in your purse or briefcase. Also, backwards compatibility really hasn't been much of a problem. All in all, changes in USB have been far, far less painful and relatively dongle-free compared to the change from Firewire 400 to 800 to Thunderbolt 1 to Thunderbolt 3 or from iPod connector to thunderbolt to thunderbolt-without-headphone-jack were in terms of being screwed with certain peripherals, stereo connections, etc.
[doublepost=1475198449][/doublepost]

I guess it's too close to a possible truth to be funny...

I believe it's going to have a Lightning port which can be used for charging, though I'm not sure that will help the iPhone 7 situation. Except, you'll be able to use the same charger for the MBP with a USB-C to Lightning cable for both the MBP and iPhone 7. You'll just have to buy one, unless Apple ships one in the box.

 

[Ziich]

Hopefully they just replace the usb and thunderbolt ports and leave the rest alone

 

[johngwheeler]

Hopefully they just replace the usb and thunderbolt ports and leave the rest alone

I think (& hope) that this is the most likely option. My gut tells me that they will change all ports to USB-C, and maybe include a USB-A -> USB-C adapter.

This is going to be painful for at least a couple of years until USB-C devices become more widespread. I would hope that cable manufacturer jump on the band-wagon and make low-cost cables with USB-C on one end and USB-A, USB-mini & USB-micro B connectors on the other. Being dependent on adapters is a pain.

Getting rid of the SD card reader would be a mistake. I use it to extend my limited SSD storage on a number of machines and use them as compact "tier 2" storage for low bandwidth operations (documents, e-books, music, movies etc.)

John.

 

[Soccertess]

Yes, the iPhone 7 is failing miserably.
I think "Timmy"'s team is pretty capable of releasing a great product. Here's guessing that whatever they release will be a huge hit. Of course, if they have a problem Timmy can call you and you can explain to the designers and engineers what they need to do to not be "lame".

Yes, the iphone is so amazing that Apple decided to lower it's sales forecast on number of units sold. So amazing that suppliers are scrambling due to the loss of sales too.

And I don't need to call the engineers and designers, majority of tech mags, tech pod casts, and reviewers have already bashed it enough. Only blind fanboys can't be open to the possibility that the iphone 7 might be a bit lame, and behind in specs of many android phones. After 8.5 years of iphones, I have no problem saying this phone was a disappointment and am open to trying an android phone.

If google's pixel wasn't just around the corner, I would probably have purchased the S7 already. I'll wait till oct 4 though

 

[robertrl]

With Jobs gone, the drive to push the envelope by Cook in creativity in his team and the acceptance of nothing less than idealisitic concepts seems to be significantly diminished. The core products, the Mac pro and it's line up seem to take a second place to those items that drive the financial incentives. I've had Apples since the II+ but I see dark clouds on the horizon unless the back to basics occurs. The long lines are lessening and competition closer or superior than it ever has been. Large glass houses are nice, but it all started in a small bedroom and then garage with strong commitments, personal investments and 'hard' drives. It was their Byte of the Apple that started it all.

 

[deconstruct60]

...

Nope: there are active cables, but TB3 can use passive cables for shorter lengths: 0.5 metres at 40Gbps, up to 2 metres at 20Gbps, which will be fine for many uses:

Thanks, I had forgotten about the subset of passive modes. That's odd because in the initial briefs on this they were more segmented ( active 40Gb/s and passive 20Gb/s) [ for example http://www.anandtech.com/show/9331/intel-announces-thunderbolt-3 ]

To be viable long term TB needs to be faster than the others. So "need" in the connotation of being the 'lowest common denominator' yeah there is passive options . Whether those passive options get on the same slippery slope as general USB Type C cables is up in the air ( Intel will be able to pragmatically enforce the TB label).

It is a bit sad though that when TB started out as LightPeak it was going to alleviate the distance problem. We are now at the point that it is backsliding to even shorter distances than USB 3.1. Again that isn't a long term healthy indicator ... although not surprising since trying to replacing magsafe (and general power ports) has now been throw into the 'kitchen sink' approach to the issue.

Crack fiber and affordable, limited active and keep dropping the distances to crank speed. Short enough USB 3.5 (4.0 whatever) is just going to walk on by on bandwidth if it is race to shortest cable.

https://blog.startech.com/post/thunderbolt-3-the-basics/

Perhaps initial available dynamics but the 0.5m cable ( 40Gb/s ) and the 1m cable (20Gb/s) cable cost exactly the same. If going passive was suppose to loop in the cost adverse..... is this a win?

Amazon review of 0.5m one suggests that 100W power and 40Gbb/s don't mix. A complex matrix of cable capabilities I don't think is going to help TB long term. The dynamics of lots of power and lots of bits mixed into the same cable is the optimal path.

 

[bostero2]

I'm still rocking my late 2008 aluminum unibody MacBook (yeah, not even Pro) and apart from a swollen battery it still performs great since I upgraded the RAM to 8GB. I know this won't happen, but I would absolutely love being able to upgrade the RAM after buying my computer, but it's going to be soldered just like the current Retina MacBook Pros... Still I'm looking to upgrade to the new ones since mine is already 8 years old.

 

[Komiidian]

Finally! Just release it already, apple!

 

[theluggage]

Where are the USB-C flash drives? Not in any store near me.

https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-Type-C-Flash-SDCZ450-032G-G46/dp/B01BUSN07K?th=1 or, if you prefer, a double-ended one that works with both types of USB: https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultr..._t_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=YV5ZJ60JVWQ5H90VNDGH&th=1

...and follow the "related product" links for a shedload of other USB-C devices. Oh, and they're "in stock" in at least one store near me.

A first class connection that requires a third party dongle to connect.

The point is that for USB 3, DisplayPort, Short-run Thunderbolt 3 and (in the near future) HDMI they're just cables - c.f. trying to connect a display to a USB port.

The difference is that other manufacturers are providing a variety of ports to allow for a smoother transition

...which means people won't bother to make the transition - that's why we've still got ruddy PS/2 and VGA ports wasting space on PCs in 2016.

while Apple only wants to sell dongles.

If that were the case, they'd have made proprietary "Lightning 2" connectors instead of helping the USB consortium to create USB-C.

It is a bit sad though that when TB started out as LightPeak it was going to alleviate the distance problem.

It does - http://www.eastwoodsoundandvision.c...=c01517499500ba62048c6eeb26714cbd&fo_s=gplauk

...reality is, 90% of Thunderbolt use only needs a 0.5m - 1m cable. I guess if you really need your peripheral 60m away from your computer (and Ethernet isn't fast enough) then you can justify paying a grand for a wire.

Perhaps initial available dynamics but the 0.5m cable ( 40Gb/s ) and the 1m cable (20Gb/s) cable cost exactly the same.

$26 vs. $30 on the site I'm looking at. Its the bits at the end of the cable that contribute to the marginal cost, not the extra cable, so you wouldn't expect a huge difference.

To be viable long term TB needs to be faster than the others.

It also has the advantage of TB3 peripherals being "first class" PCIe devices and I suspect its future lies in more specialist applications (like FibreChannel or 10GB+ Ethernet adapters, external GPUs). There's probably going to be a battle between Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C in DisplayPort/HDMI alt mode as the future of display connections. Apart from that, I really don't see the point of things like single disc drives/SSDs and home/small office docks using TB3 rather than USB-C.

A complex matrix of cable capabilities I don't think is going to help TB long term.

Agree 100% - and the same applies for USB-C (I think there were proposals for 5Gbps and 10Gbps-grade cables at one point). Hopefully, that will sort itself out and the real choice will be between "USB-C" cables for everything up to short-run Thunderbolt and "Active" Thunderbolt cables for everything else. Its probably too early in the day to judge cable prices, but ISTR short Thunderbolt 1 cables being about twice that price at launch.

NB: Everybody seems to be happy with the switch between TB2 and USB-C/TB3 as long as the USB-A, HDMI and SD card stays... from where I'm standing, though, the people who are going to be the most hacked off are the ones with existing Thunderbolt devices who will need to shell out $100 for a TB3-to-TB2 adapter...

 

[Abazigal]

NB: Everybody seems to be happy with the switch between TB2 and USB-C/TB3 as long as the USB-A, HDMI and SD card stays... from where I'm standing, though, the people who are going to be the most hacked off are the ones with existing Thunderbolt devices who will need to shell out $100 for a TB3-to-TB2 adapter...

You don't miss what you don't need. The people who don't mind losing the thunderbolt ports are probably the people who rarely ever use it to begin with.

 

[navaira]

You don't miss what you don't need. The people who don't mind losing the thunderbolt ports are probably the people who rarely ever use it to begin with.

Same as headphone jack on iPhone. "I don't use it, therefore nobody needs it".

I'm almost certain the leaked chassis with 4 USB-C ports and nothing else is going to be the new Air. Almost. Going from that plethora of ports to four USB-Cs would be painful to say the least. On the plus side, it would make me extremely happy about having bought the 2015.

 

[Abazigal]

Same as headphone jack on iPhone. "I don't use it, therefore nobody needs it".

I'm almost certain the leaked chassis with 4 USB-C ports and nothing else is going to be the new Air. Almost. Going from that plethora of ports to four USB-Cs would be painful to say the least. On the plus side, it would make me extremely happy about having bought the 2015.

I am betting on there being no refreshed MacBook Air. Just the MacBook and MacBook Pro. What's the point of having an Air that is thicker and heavier than a MacBook, marketing wise? Apple's laptop line is in dire need of a purge and the 13" non-retina MBP and MBA line seem like the most obvious candidates.

That said, 4 ports seem a bit sparse. 6 seems about right.

 

[fastasleep]

Yes, the iphone is so amazing that Apple decided to lower it's sales forecast on number of units sold. So amazing that suppliers are scrambling due to the loss of sales too.

Source?

And I don't need to call the engineers and designers, majority of tech mags, tech pod casts, and reviewers have already bashed it enough. Only blind fanboys can't be open to the possibility that the iphone 7 might be a bit lame, and behind in specs of many android phones. After 8.5 years of iphones, I have no problem saying this phone was a disappointment and am open to trying an android phone.

The reviews I've seen has been overwhelmingly positive. "Behind spec" is what you call the new A10 processor that smokes all the Android processors in the wild? Ooooookay.

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.