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This statistic is about assembled desktop systems systems.
Not Laptops, no servers, no hosted infrastructure.

The Gartner numbers are total PC shipments, desktop and notebook included. Server and infrastructure dont have much relevance to Apple anyway.

The fact remains that Apple realises that mobile is of far greater significance to them as a business than PC, given that mobile accounts for a far greater share of their overall revenue, and that this is reflected in the industry as a whole.
 
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Because:
...
(b) laptops now have all-working-day battery life so you don't need to keep pugging them in at meetings etc.
...

That would need to be doing active work all day battery life. Not sitting in a meeting, spending most of the time listening and doing not much of anything. Yeah can take it to a meeting, but when get back to the desk and need to do some heavy computation. Can it do 5-6 hours of that, plus all of this other, low workload, stuff?

Or is there implicit presumption that the laptop will be plugged into a short, safe (free from accidental entanglement), docking station connector cord?


Except we've never had anything quite like USB-C/TB3 before, that provides a first class connection for USB3, Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, HDMI and power via a single, industry-standard connector that only needs passive cables and adapters.

Thunderbolt still needs active cables. That is primarily why the bandwidth is substantially higher on the others. The others use cases are passive. So most of the probably usage is on passive ( as they crank up though will get onto slippery slope where they may need active also.) .

There's already a better choice of USB-C cables and hubs than there ever was for Thunderbolt, and the prices are getting lower.

There is also lists of dodgy USB-C not quite complaint USB-C cables you need to avoid. USB-C cables are cheaper but they also have a "race to the bottom" factor also.
 
How did intel drop the ball and prevent Apple from putting Skylake into their MBP a year ago?

Kaby Lake has been available in the OEM's manufacturing channels for a while now

Fascinating. Definitive proof of alternative realities colliding. In my universe Sky Lake for MBP has not been available for a year nor are there Kaby Lake processors for MBP expected in time for an October release.

Curious, do you have a peculiar guy who also has a loose association with truth running for high office in your reality?
 
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I hope they will implement that touch function key right.
The lenovo x1 function key is a constant frustration for me
[doublepost=1475165032][/doublepost]And since we're at it, please bring back that 17" MBP. I'm still in love with mine and use it more often than my 2015 MBP.
 
Or is there implicit presumption that the laptop will be plugged into a short, safe (free from accidental entanglement), docking station connector cord?

...yes, there's an assumption that, when you're sitting at your own desk, you ought to have the cable somewhere safe. Because, as I know from experience, MagSafe isn't infallible, nor does it stop whoever trips over the cable from biting the carpet.

Thunderbolt still needs active cables.

Nope: there are active cables, but TB3 can use passive cables for shorter lengths: 0.5 metres at 40Gbps, up to 2 metres at 20Gbps, which will be fine for many uses: https://blog.startech.com/post/thunderbolt-3-the-basics/

There is also lists of dodgy USB-C not quite complaint USB-C cables you need to avoid. USB-C cables are cheaper but they also have a "race to the bottom" factor also.

Sure - you need to check the reviews, stick to a reputable brand and not get tempted by the "bargains" on eBay - but they're still cheaper than proprietary Apple cables/adapters and if you don't need Thunderbolt-class throughput (and most people don't) USB-C hubs/docks/dongles are already cheaper than Thunderbolt.
 
I have never understood the blind nVidia love as if it's always been better at every level or something. nVidia and AMD have gone back and forth and if my memory serves me, AMD has often had the advantage in terms of power consumption and heat dispensation.

As for the Kaby lake whining... it's not going to be ready for a MBP at launch, and the improvements in Kaby Lake over Skylake are... well... fairly trivial.

Still don't get the complaints about adapters and people telling me and others what constitutes a "Pro" notebook. You're either on the move and entirely wireless or you're at a designated workspace and have some kind of something. I use a thunderbolt dock at work and at home. Everywhere else? I'm using it on my lap or at a desk. I don't need USB, ethernet, or video.

Seriously, what adapters, beyond MAYBE one do most people need while on the move?

This is going to be nice. I'm hoping some of the limitations on Intel's current crop in terms of video for a dedicated GPU solution on the 13" MBPs. I doubt it, but that would be pretty nice.

Everytime I have ever used an AMD graphics card, it has been absolutely horrible. Both desktops and laptops. Maybe I am just getting them when AMD is "down" that generation, I do not know. All my NVIDIA cards have been great.
 
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My cat agrees

View attachment 660688

he's fine BTW, my bank balance not so.

My cat likes these cables too.


My prediction is that it's going to have a Lightning port, in the blank space were the mag-safe would go, which equates with the charging port. Lightning will be the de facto headphone jack (though they will maintain the 3.5mm jack without optical until at least the next redesign), an alternate charging port for the MB, an optional data port, compatible with all current Lightning accessories. So for all those professionals who will complain about the loss of HDMI, USB 3, and SD card slots, if they already had Lightning accessories for these things on their iOS devices, they'll be good to go.

Sorry, that hole is round. It looks nothing like a lightning port.


Can't wait! Only thing I'm concerned about is an external display solution. The standard USB and SD card slot removal make me itch, but with USB-C flashdrives and a dongle for the rare occasion I use an SD card from my DSLR, I think I'll live.

Where are the USB-C flash drives? Not in any store near me. I have yet to see a type-C connector for anything (except an adapter cable), and that despite constant visits to electronics stores in a large city.


Because Magsafe is fantastic and people don't want dongles for SD cards and HDMI.

People don't want and won't like dongles every time they have to plug in a flash drive.


So you want Apple to delay the MBP rollout until late Q1 of 2017 when those chips will be available? I'm sure Apple wants to get an update out before the holidays.

The sooner, the better. Then the rest of us can safely purchase Gen 2 versions.


Except we've never had anything quite like USB-C/TB3 before, that provides a first class connection for USB3, Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, HDMI and power via a single, industry-standard connector that only needs passive cables and adapters.

A first class connection that requires a third party dongle to connect.

(Not sure if the recently announced HDMI-over-USB-C mode will be supported by the next wave of Macs, so that one might need an active DP-to-HDMI adapter - but they are already on the market - everything else is basically just a cable). There's already a better choice of USB-C cables and hubs than there ever was for Thunderbolt, and the prices are getting lower.

Great, so the cost of ownership is going to go up for basic functions (e.g., connecting thumb drives, external hard drives, HDMI, etc). That's the way to attract customers--raise the customer's cost!

Short-term, yes, there will be a bit of adapter pain, but long-term the smart money is on USB-C becoming ubiquitous and, thing is, a major laptop brand like Apple going USB-C-or-bust will speed up that process - just like the original iMac helped kickstart the uptake of USB: PCs had dusty, unused USB ports for a year or so before the iMac, but since they also had RS232, Centronics, PS/2 etc. there was no real incentive to use them (or for MS to sort out the Win95 USB driver hell).

That is nonsense. Apple's decision to use only USB-C is not going to speed this transition. All of the other PC manufacturers are already adopting USB-C ports. The difference is that other manufacturers are providing a variety of ports to allow for a smoother transition while Apple only wants to sell dongles.

That said - the leaked cases for the new rMBPs were the same basic shape, but slightly thinner, as the existing ones, so they haven't gone for an Air/rMB-style tapered design which is what really reduces the space for ports. Keeping MagSafe, a 3.5mm jack/optical socket and maybe one USB-A port wouldn't be a bad thing.

Apple could leave all of their existing ports as is and simply choose to upgrade the TB2 ports to USB-C/TB3 ports and everyone would be pleased. But again, this is about milking Apple users, not design or common sense.
 
Fascinating. Definitive proof of alternative realities colliding. In my universe Sky Lake for MBP has not been available for a year nor are there Kaby Lake processors for MBP expected in time for an October release.

Curious, do you have a peculiar guy who also has a loose association with truth running for high office in your reality?
The Skylake Wiki shows that the 6970HQ processor has been available since Q1 2016, so perhaps its not been a year, but its been so long that Apple has no excuse.
 
That is nonsense. Apple's decision to use only USB-C is not going to speed this transition. All of the other PC manufacturers are already adopting USB-C ports. The difference is that other manufacturers are providing a variety of ports to allow for a smoother transition while Apple only wants to sell dongles

If more PC manufacturers switched to all USB-C designs, yes, it would speed the transition to USB-C peripherals, to the extent we still need them at all (Apple's vision is wireless, as they said when they announced the MacBook). If you look, Apple has NOT released lots of dongles for the MacBook in over 1.5 years. Just the VGA, HDMI, and USB-A adapters.

The longer that PC manufacturers provide a variety of ports to "allow for a smoother transition" the longer new peripherals using the old ports will continue to be released. Heck, many PCs still ship with VGA ports even though they are no longer natively supported by the chipsets.
[doublepost=1475168420][/doublepost]
The Skylake Wiki shows that the 6970HQ processor has been available since Q1 2016, so perhaps its not been a year, but its been so long that Apple has no excuse.
My guess is that Apple thought it pointless to do a Skylake refresh of the old design when a new design was in the works. The MacBook, which is relatively new and won't get a radical redesign anytime soon, was updated, albeit a few months after the chips became available, but after Intel had worked out the bugs, so the timing worked out well.
 
It's not as much hyperbole as it is tongue-in-cheek mockery. Nobody realistically has accurate numbers, but I can promise you that the bulk of the rMBP demographic is not comprised of hobby photographers who cannot live without an SD card. However if you're willing to argue that the majority of rMBP users are indeed photographers, then there isn't much to say.

What kind of cameras are you implying these people do use? iPhones, or something bigger like medium format? I know a lot of people who rely on cards (SD or CF) to get their images from their camera to their computer (I'm one of them). Most photographers have long been warned to *not* use the usb cable to transfer images for fear of frying their camera (although truthfully I've never actually heard of that happening), and there is nothing wrong with either of my two camera bodies that would warrant me upgrading to something new just for wifi transfer. And it would take forever with the file sizes from my Nikon D800.
 
How's about an iPod Touch Plus Update?

I think we've seen the last of the iPod updates. They'll probably continue to cash cow it until sales drop to the point where they can argue that it's no longer viable to continue production. The Apple Watch will replace the iPod nano and the cheaper iPhone SE will replace the iPod touch. Even young kids have a smartphone these days rather than an iPod, espeically since the widespread adoption of pay-as-you-go mobile plans which prevent kids running up huge mobile phone bills.
 
The Skylake Wiki shows that the 6970HQ processor has been available since Q1 2016, so perhaps its not been a year, but its been so long that Apple has no excuse.

Come on! The wiki is based on an anandtech.com article from Sep., 2015, and creates a chart based on the projected release date. N.B., the maximum frequency for the Turbo clock is unknown for the 6970HQ, 6870HQ, and 6770HQ--all of which have yet to be released with the Intel Iris Pro iGPU. I feel your frustration, but the chips have simply not been released yet.

Edit: the point here is that the turbo clock is unknown because the chips have not yet been released.
 
The problem I have with an all USB-C device, and nothing else, is that its way too early in the USB-C life. I love the idea of a single port to rule themall, But the standard is still in it's infancy. Adoption in the real world is still miniscule. Apple is taking the approach that they don't care if they break everyone of their users existing workflows. You will have to adapt to them. This is what I'm not a fan of. at some point, it might make sense, but right now it's very restrictive.

Many users who have years of hardware setups in ideal configurations are going to find themselves having to buy adapters and dongles to acheive the same thing they were previously able to accomplish. And that is going to be extremely costly endeaver, above and beyond just the laptop itself, because it will mean buying adapters, or replacing existing equipment that may no longer be compatible.

will some ports eventually have to die? Sure, standards change all the time. But right now, its extremely early in adoption of USB-C.

I know the easiest comparison that's going to be made is the CD/DVD drive. But that was done at a time when highspeed broadband had a heavy adoption. During a time where there were and are suitable other means to get media content, via streaming sites, iTunes and other services.

a better analogy would be imagine if Apple dropped the CD/DVD drive from their devices while the standard internet speed was still 14.4 modems.
 
I feel your frustration,
I'm not frustrated, and even if the Iris Pro hasn't been included doesn't mean Apple cannot include the dGPU.

Apple got greedy and let the configurations for the MBP slide as they wanted to maximize profits, pure and simple.

For the sake of argument, that the Skylake processor is not available, does that mean there's no Broadwell chipset available for Apple to use - because the 15" MBP is still running Haswell? Apple has to have known what is coming and what is not coming from intel, they're not in the dark, like every other major customer, Intel keeps them informed and Apple most certainly could have done something, instead they sat on their laurels when other makers did not.
 
If more PC manufacturers switched to all USB-C designs, yes, it would speed the transition to USB-C peripherals, to the extent we still need them at all (Apple's vision is wireless, as they said when they announced the MacBook). If you look, Apple has NOT released lots of dongles for the MacBook in over 1.5 years. Just the VGA, HDMI, and USB-A adapters.

I still don't agree. USB-C will eventually match the current ubiquity of USB-A as peripherals transition and people replace their old peripherals.

Also, Apple is able to be more radical in its design because it has a captive audience (they alone sell OS X). It's users are often locked into that ecosystem, so they are forced into accepting Apple's decisions. However, if the rumors are true, I hope Apple users revolt by not purchasing this monstrosity.

I admire Apple products most of the time, but the current defense of such a move is in my mind unfounded. No one here who is advocating for only USB-C ports has expressed how overjoyed they will be when they have to pull out a dongle just to connect a thumb drive while away from a desk or tallied the cost of the necessary dongles or hubs (=quality dongles and hubs from trusted manufacturers and not Chinese counterfeits which risk damaging your Mac).


The longer that PC manufacturers provide a variety of ports to "allow for a smoother transition" the longer new peripherals using the old ports will continue to be released.

I think you give too much credit to Apple's influence on a market where the share of OS X users is minuscule compared to that of Windows.

Heck, many PCs still ship with VGA ports even though they are no longer natively supported by the chipsets.
[doublepost=1475168420][/doublepost]

That's because businesses still use equipment with VGA connectors. You may find that to be antiquarian, but businesses drive adoption and businesses don't adopt every new technology when it comes out, especially smaller businesses whose margins are often razer thin.

My guess is that Apple thought it pointless to do a Skylake refresh of the old design when a new design was in the works. The MacBook, which is relatively new and won't get a radical redesign anytime soon, was updated, albeit a few months after the chips became available, but after Intel had worked out the bugs, so the timing worked out well.

Sorry, the only update held back by Apple's redesign was the 13" MBP. Chipsets for the 15" are being released this quarter.[/QUOTE]
[doublepost=1475170961][/doublepost]
I'm not frustrated, and even if the Iris Pro hasn't been included doesn't mean Apple cannot include the dGPU.

Apple got greedy and let the configurations for the MBP slide as they wanted to maximize profits, pure and simple.

For the sake of argument, that the Skylake processor is not available, does that mean there's no Broadwell chipset available for Apple to use - because the 15" MBP is still running Haswell? Apple has to have known what is coming and what is not coming from intel, they're not in the dark, like every other major customer, Intel keeps them informed and Apple most certainly could have done something, instead they sat on their laurels when other makers did not.

You are absolutely correct that Apple should have updated to Broadwell. The omission of a Broadwell-based 15" MBP is inexcusable.

I agree Apple has found itself in a corner, but is it not possible that Apple's decision to design a system with an iGPU and dGPU was based on a road map that Intel later changed and resulted in the current situation?

We may never know, but I don't presume the situation is necessarily only Apple's fault.

I do have a question for you, sincerely: would you really want Apple to forego its dual GPU configuration (iGPU with dGPU) if it meant lower battery (dGPU only) or lower performance (Intel HD iGPU instead of Iris Pro)?
 
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Fascinating. Definitive proof of alternative realities colliding. In my universe Sky Lake for MBP has not been available for a year nor are there Kaby Lake processors for MBP expected in time for an October release.

Curious, do you have a peculiar guy who also has a loose association with truth running for high office in your reality?

Your obnoxious sarcasm aside it's not Intel's fault Apple is too stupid to use the available chips like the companies that have the other 95% of the market do.
 
I do have a question for you, sincerely: would you really want Apple to forego its dual GPU configuration (iGPU with dGPU) if it meant lower battery (dGPU only) or lower performance (Intel HD iGPU instead of Iris Pro)?
Yes, on either one. I'm happy with the iGPU performance, in fact I'm rocking with an iGPU only SurfaceBook and the machine has been fantastic.
 
I know many DSLR jocks that move the SD card from their camera to the SD slot of their rMBP to suck in the photos and video.

You are aware that folks, especially many pro photographers, are still using CF?

I'm not even a pro, but I've hated the priority of SD since ever (and yes, I'm aware that most CONSUMER cameras use SD...)

Mine do but that's not the point. It's painful to transfer 100+ GB of raw files wirelessly in the downtime when you're working a job.

How often do you have to transfer 100+ Gigs of photos? o_O
 
Because 1) Skylake chipsets appropriate for the MBP were not available a year ago and 2) neither are Kaby Lake chipsets now.

Skylake for MBP = 6770HQ/6870HQ/6970HQ w/Iris Pro 580. Only seen late this summer in Intel's Skull Canyon NUC and in no other shipping laptop as of yet.

Then 1) Apple is run by a bunch of idiots for waiting on chips than don't exist rather than building computers around the chips that do. Like everybody else. And 2) it is just hilarious that some people seem to think Apple is right for selling 3 year old tech as if it were new while waiting for these chips to show up.

Lack of appropriate CPUs and GPUs for one...

There are plenty of appropriate CPUs and GPUs. Apple just needs to have the courage to keep up with modern times and choose modern chips.

Because the 15" MBP is just so much more capable than the MSI-GS62 right? Same form factor yet the MSI has an i7 quad core skylake, a gtx 970, a 4k screen, and multiple industry standard drive bays. The updated version with Kaby and the GTX 1070 should be hitting the street before the MBP refresh. And unlike Apple, there are some fantastic deals on the MSI machines right now because they're almost a year out of date. And if you don't mind going a bit thicker than the MBP, MSI has some amazingly powerful machines. If you prefer thinner, Razer makes some amazing MBA killers.
 
No no no ... late October is too late. I need it now. My unibody macbook 2008 won't survive that long.

Every month I wait, they say its coming in the next 3 months. Its been like this since june 2015.
 
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  • Help, I'm trapped in Early 2015!
mjeihhs.png
 
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No no no ... late October is too late. I need it now. My unibody macbook 2008 won't survive that long.

Every month I wait, they say its coming in the next 3 months. Its been like this since june 2015.

If you've been waiting since June 2015 and your MB is indeed dying, the problem isn't with Apple...seriously people...
 
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