Apple Likely to Add Google Gemini and Other AI Models to iOS 18

[NT1440]

Because they have to give information to the other AI systems for them to work, so they cannot guarantee what is done with that information. What if location data is needed? An AI system can’t give accurate answers or information without knowing certain aspects.
In that text no where as I said does it detail how Apple is integrating its servers with other systems, and as they advise you will has asked first if you want to use chatGPT etc I would guess they cannot control what happens to your data once passed across.

That flies in the face of what Craig went over during the keynote.

I could be misunderstanding, but I’m under the impression that PCC is always in between a phone and a query.

Edit: No idea why the screenshots landed in the quote?

 

[Pezimak]

That flies in the face of what Craig went over during the keynote.

I could be misunderstanding, but I’m under the impression that PCC is always in between a phone and a query.

Edit: No idea why the screenshots landed in the quote?

Everything you’ve quoted refers to Apple, Apples AI and servers, they stated you will be asked if you wish to use a third party AI, why would they did that if it was so secure? I think your reading all this security stuff for Apple and implying it’ll work with chatGPT too, but as I said how can an AI give you a result with no information like if it’s something relating to where you are located. But I guess it depends on what you use AI for and what Apple will let you use third party ones for.

 

[Stiksi]

Apple is not and does not have access to OpenAI’s data, they are merely giving their users an option to send requests to ChatGPT if/when Siri determines that Apple’s own models cannot provide an appropriate response. Did you not watch the keynote?

Apple is paying OpenAI for their service and advertising it as a part of a core feature. Short of buying OpenAI, that’s the closest relationship you can get. And the only reason Apple didn’t buy OpenAI is because Microsoft practically did that already.

 

[Stiksi]

It's weird, people have been complaining for years that Apple is late in AI, that Siri is dumb and needs AI, that AI features on other devices like Samsung are so cool compared to Apple.

ChatGPT had the fastest growing user base in history, and everybody seems to love generative AI for everything including writing, photo editing or image generation.

But now that Apple introduced these feature, all of a sudden everybody hates AI 🤔

As always, these are different people. What you think of as ”everyone” is the couple dozen comments you pick out of a stream of thousands. You just happened to pick different comments this time.

 

[NT1440]

Everything you’ve quoted refers to Apple, Apples AI and servers, they stated you will be asked if you wish to use a third party AI, why would they did that if it was so secure? I think your reading all this security stuff for Apple and implying it’ll work with chatGPT too, but as I said how can an AI give you a result with no information like if it’s something relating to where you are located. But I guess it depends on what you use AI for and what Apple will let you use third party ones for.

My impression from both the Keynote and the State of the Union is Apple’s semantic index (whatever wizardry they’ve cooked up to understand the context of a question) is only passing what relevant data to the 3rd party service is needed for the question, and only AFTER it has been relayed through PCC and the security measures it has in place.

Much like Apple Pay tells credit card companies to **** off and only gives them the data required for the transaction.

I could be misinterpreting this, but PCC is the special sauce in between your device and the cloud based AI service that eliminates any information that can be tracked or stored back to you.

If you can point to any of the documentation or presentation that indicates OpenAI queries are exempt from PCC I’d love to read it and understand more, but my current understanding is that PCC’s point is to maintain your privacy.

 

[Tagbert]

By the time they actually release this feature won’t GPT 4o be outdated?

It’s a web service. As the service is upgraded, you will be using the newer models. You don’t worry that your web searches will be going to the old Google, do you?

 

[Tagbert]

I can already imagine the server crashes that’s about to happen on iOS 18 public release day…
i don’t know how you even start planning for something at that scale

For one thing, you only enable this on the newest hardware for phones. That cuts out a lot of volume right away. Certainly the 8GB of RAM and neural processor are part of the reason the M-series and iPhone 15 Pro are the only ones to run these models, but I would imagine that managing server demand has to come into the equation, too.

 

[Tagbert]

While Cook‘s vision had him busy pouring money down the Apple Car and VP drains AI left them in the dust. Apple is so far behind the curve they have to resort to buying canned AI.

So you dropped by to replay a post from last week?

Did you happen to watch the keynote? Did you see all of the machine learning (AI) features revealed in the first half of the presentation? Did you see the LLM-based AI powering Siri and doing most of its processing on device but then handing off to other Apple models on Apple servers for heavier tasks, all done with privacy and security in mind? In the presentation at the halfway point, they switched to talking about Apple Intelligence, that was the identifier for their AI and most of the features that they were showing were useful things done on device.

They also showed, at the very end, that they have partnered with OpenAI for a very limited integration with ChatGPT, basically using it as a more sophisticated web search provider for when you want to get trivia answers and other things that ChatGPT can do. Apple has never been a web search company and they are not (yet?) an answerbot company. They have contracted that out to OpenAI for now.

You should probably let that dust settle and rewatch the keynote to see this again.

 

[Tagbert]

Exactly. I do not want this on any of my devices.

Why do people downvote asking for an option to disable?

Because the same statement has been posted multiple times. Just wait a little bit to find out more. We will see that you can disable the ChatGPT integration and most likely the Apple Intelligence feature now just like you can disable Siri.

 

[Tagbert]

None of that goes in depth about how Apples servers will integrate with Microsoft’s or Googles etc?

Apple’s servers are not integrating with Microsoft or Google’s servers, nor with ChatGPT. Apple’s Private Cloud Compute servers are self-contained running their own server software designed to run their own AI models in memory and return a result to your device without saving any data.

The closest they would get to connecting their servers to those other providers is if they are using a proxy server to mask your devices’s IP address when your device queries ChatGPT. And that is just a pass through network device.

i don’t see anything in that linked diagram about connecting to ChatGPT or other third party AIs from the PCC.

 

[Pezimak]

Apple’s servers are not integrating with Microsoft or Google’s servers, nor with ChatGPT. Apple’s Private Cloud Compute servers are self-contained running their own server software designed to run their own AI models in memory and return a result to your device without saving any data.

The closest they would get to connecting their servers to those other providers is if they are using a proxy server to mask your devices’s IP address when your device queries ChatGPT. And that is just a pass through network device.

i don’t see anything in that linked diagram about connecting to ChatGPT or other third party AIs from the PCC.

Yeap, and I just found this which backs up my point:

”

ChatGPT, seamlessly integrated.​

With ChatGPT from OpenAI integrated into Siri and Writing Tools, you get even more expertise when it might be helpful for you — no need to jump between tools. Siri can tap into ChatGPT for certain requests, including questions about photos or documents. And with Compose in Writing Tools, you can create and illustrate original content from scratch.

You control when ChatGPT is used and will be asked before any of your information is shared. Anyone can access ChatGPT for free, without creating an account. ChatGPT subscribers can connect accounts to access paid features within these experiences.”

Apple Intelligence

Apple Intelligence helps you write, express yourself, and get things done effortlessly. All while setting a brand-new standard for privacy in AI.

www.apple.com

That answers my question, Apple WILL share your information with other AI systems and ask you if you want to do that, so they cannot control what happens to your data and the moment you step outside Apples AI your on your own.

 

[bassexpander]

I understand why many people are upset that their iPhone 15/14 Pro/14 aren't getting AI features at this point. However, this situation could actually be advantageous. Here’s why:

First, you have one of the newest iPhone models with a large amount of RAM, so it won't be slowed down by resident AI processes. Many people who don't want AI features, viewing them as intrusive, may prefer to buy your high-end phone on the used market because it’s updated but not overloaded with AI.

Second, there are scenarios where you don't want a memory resident AI such as this. Some companies (Elon Musk and Tesla) are stating that they will not allow phones with memory-resident AI in the workplace. They will require employees to check these iPhones at the door. Perhaps older phones will get a pass. This may create a situation where your iPhone is more desirable on the used market BECAUSE it lacks the AI. As a parent I also understand some don't want their children becoming involved with this tech just yet. They may seek phones like yours, too.

Additionally, those of us with iPhone 14 Pros can choose not to upgrade and save money. If you really want AI features, consider subscribing to ChatGPT directly. Their full-featured AI service is much more powerful than the lighter versions offered on phones, which mainly promote their own services. The best features of ChatGPT are only available through a paid subscription. AI on the iPhone will be relatively basic for at least three years, until you likely upgrade anyway.

Lastly, a coworker made an excellent point. There is a lot of competition between different AI companies, and they are increasingly offering bundled packages which include, for example, 1 TB of data for storing your photos, documents, and videos. You might determine it more fiscally smart to purchase one of these services and not pay more for iCloud, while you take advantage of an overall better AI experience.

It's my belief that Apple (like with Stage Manager) will open AI up to other phones after the initial sale of the iPhone 16 models. Samsung sold their S24 and claimed older phones wouldn't enjoy AI features, only to renig 2 months after sales began. Apple already appears behind with AI, and the technology is moving so fast that it may not wait around for Apple to fleece its customers for another year or more. Apple needs the data.

So, keep your phone, save money, or spend less than an upgrade would cost, and enjoy a monthly subscription/bundle including a superior level of AI directly from the company that created it. You do have options.

 

[svish]

Definitely expecting this to happen. Apple Intelligence should improve over time.

 

[bluegt]

It’s a web service. As the service is upgraded, you will be using the newer models. You don’t worry that your web searches will be going to the old Google, do you?

Actually, yes.

Google has features only available on Chrome or Android.

ChatGPT has releases only available to subscribers.

Apple releases new features selectively to their latest hardware.

Careful not to assume that Apple will keep financing the use of latest GPT model for you with no strings attached.

 

[bluegt]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? They have a paid/invested relationship so their services will be current.

Not at all, the article specifically says:

“Siri‌ will leverage GPT-4o for free”

We also know this OS will only be public in Sept.

Combine that with the fact that new GPT models come out every few months.

It’s safe to assume that by September a much newer version of ChatGPT will be out and per the language in the article, Siri will still specifically be using GPT-4o for free.

It’s possible by then the free tier of iOS18 will use 4o and the paid tier will have access to the later models.

 

[michaeljk]

Apps, as we know them now, are going to disappear very soon, which is weird, but I think very good.

With Apple's Keynote announcements, it made it clear that it is moving closer to something I referred to as "Seamless OS" in a post here a couple of months ago, which is strange, because I think it is something Apple fears. Seamless OS would be a user experience based solely on personal queries for command structures which pays no regard (has no need) to make you, the user, care at all about individual apps. It would be the ultimate "everything app." Mustafa Suleyman also hinted at this at a recent Ted Talk when he said "AI" is moving us toward interactions with our computer devices that will be entirely "conversational."

During part of the keynote yesterday, there was a brief moment when a presenter made a query that asked their device to take action using multiple different apps to become involved in making the action happen, with the expectation that the user, no longer needs to care, pay attention to, call out, or even know which app is best suited to do the various things needed to carry out the actions to get to the results for the query. I can't remember the example now. But, it would be something like "Siri, make a photo story of me at Arches National Park from June 2024 with my dog Sugar, make the photos black and white, set it to Frank Sinatra music, put it in a zip file, and attach it to an email and send it to the personal email account of Jeff Johnson, but don't send it until tomorrow at 10 am, Tokyo time, and confirm when it is sent." This request might use Photos, Image Playground, Music, Finder, Reminders, Mail, and perhaps other apps. In other words, the functional lines between apps just became much more diffuse.

This is the first indication that Apple realizes users should not have to pay attention to which apps they are using to get things done. In a way, this is the ultimate version of "it just works." This is "Seamless OS." Windows will get there. Android will get there. AppleOS just leapfrogged ahead of both toward that eventuality.

Apple is afraid of this, as was recently indicated by (I think but can't remember) Tim Cook, because it removes much of what Apple uses to distinguish itself, apps have been a huge source of revenue on the App Store, and moving away from apps could make it more difficult to keep people in its ecosystem (e.g. messages on iPhone keeping teens on iPhone). My guess though, is that they've decided it is unavoidable with Microsoft and Google headed there anyway, and now the best way to keep us in their sphere is to implement this across devices, which could end up being really, really smart. Microsoft has PCs only and fights Google to keep it that way. Google has Android phones only and fights Microsoft to keep it that way. Apple has PCs and phones, and iPads and Watches (and Vision).

I wonder what third-party app developers are thinking about all of this right now....

 

[Supermallet]

Apps, as we know them now, are going to disappear very soon, which is weird, but I think very good.

With Apple's Keynote announcements, it made it clear that it is moving closer to something I referred to as "Seamless OS" in a post here a couple of months ago, which is strange, because I think it is something Apple fears. Seamless OS would be a user experience based solely on personal queries for command structures which pays no regard (has no need) to make you, the user, care at all about individual apps. It would be the ultimate "everything app." Mustafa Suleyman also hinted at this at a recent Ted Talk when he said "AI" is moving us toward interactions with our computer devices that will be entirely "conversational."

During part of the keynote yesterday, there was a brief moment when a presenter made a query that asked their device to take action using multiple different apps to become involved in making the action happen, with the expectation that the user, no longer needs to care, pay attention to, call out, or even know which app is best suited to do the various things needed to carry out the actions to get to the results for the query. I can't remember the example now. But, it would be something like "Siri, make a photo story of me at Arches National Park from June 2024 with my dog Sugar, make the photos black and white, set it to Frank Sinatra music, put it in a zip file, and attach it to an email and send it to the personal email account of Jeff Johnson, but don't send it until tomorrow at 10 am, Tokyo time, and confirm when it is sent." This request might use Photos, Image Playground, Music, Finder, Reminders, Mail, and perhaps other apps. In other words, the functional lines between apps just became much more diffuse.

This is the first indication that Apple realizes users should not have to pay attention to which apps they are using to get things done. In a way, this is the ultimate version of "it just works." This is "Seamless OS." Windows will get there. Android will get there. AppleOS just leapfrogged ahead of both toward that eventuality.

Apple is afraid of this, as was recently indicated by (I think but can't remember) Tim Cook, because it removes much of what Apple uses to distinguish itself, apps have been a huge source of revenue on the App Store, and moving away from apps could make it more difficult to keep people in its ecosystem (e.g. messages on iPhone keeping teens on iPhone). My guess though, is that they've decided it is unavoidable with Microsoft and Google headed there anyway, and now the best way to keep us in their sphere is to implement this across devices, which could end up being really, really smart. Microsoft has PCs only and fights Google to keep it that way. Google has Android phones only and fights Microsoft to keep it that way. Apple has PCs and phones, and iPads and Watches (and Vision).

I wonder what third-party app developers are thinking about all of this right now....

I don’t know why Apple would fear this, given that from the demos they showed, you’d need to be using all Apple services to get the seamless experience. The example of the person who wanted to know when to leave to pick their mom up from the airport and then make a reservation for lunch after required her using iMessage, Apple mail, Apple calendar, and Apple Maps. Are there indications that this seamless approach will also encompass other maps like Outlook for mail, Google Maps, WhatsApp for messaging, etc?

 

[michaeljk]

I don’t know why Apple would fear this

Apple almost certainly fears if Microsoft, Google, OpenAI or someone else creates an OS which does all of this stuff seamlessly, better than Apple can. Apple's entire brand is based on "ease of use" and they are at risk of losing this to its competitors at the OS level for the first time in its history.

 

[Supermallet]

Apple almost certainly fears if Microsoft, Google, OpenAI or someone else creates an OS which does all of this stuff seamlessly, better than Apple can. Apple's entire brand is based on "ease of use" and they are at risk of losing this to its competitors at the OS level for the first time in its history.

Apple has the most seamless integration between devices at an OS level of any tech company and Apple Intelligence takes that to another level. I am skeptical that Apple fears Google or Microsoft's attempts at this as both of those have to contend with creating a seamless experience across multiple operating systems (since there are no Windows phones and no real Android desktops, Chromebooks being a very limited OS). I think Apple taking this route, as opposed to just offering yet another chatbot like most AI implementations have, shows that they are far ahead in this area and will use it to cement further lock-in to their ecosystem.

If this seamlessness obscures apps, then that is to Apple's advantage because Apple's in house apps are often seen as less desirable than the competition (Apple Maps vs Google Maps, Apple Mail vs Outlook, Calendar vs Fantastical, iCloud Keychain vs 1Password, etc.). If people find they value the seamless and "app-less" experience more than they value the experience of using a particular app, then that is Apple's gain as I still highly suspect this seamless experience will only exist to people who use Apple's built in services.

 

[thebart]

I noticed that Apple said we don't have to take their word on their private cloud compute b/c their system can be audited by any independent expert. They didn't claim the same about openAI

 

[michaeljk]

Apple has the most seamless integration between devices at an OS level of any tech company and Apple Intelligence takes that to another level. I am skeptical that Apple fears Google or Microsoft's attempts at this as both of those have to contend with creating a seamless experience across multiple operating systems (since there are no Windows phones and no real Android desktops, Chromebooks being a very limited OS). I think Apple taking this route, as opposed to just offering yet another chatbot like most AI implementations have, shows that they are far ahead in this area and will use it to cement further lock-in to their ecosystem.

If this seamlessness obscures apps, then that is to Apple's advantage because Apple's in house apps are often seen as less desirable than the competition (Apple Maps vs Google Maps, Apple Mail vs Outlook, Calendar vs Fantastical, iCloud Keychain vs 1Password, etc.). If people find they value the seamless and "app-less" experience more than they value the experience of using a particular app, then that is Apple's gain as I still highly suspect this seamless experience will only exist to people who use Apple's built in services.

I'm not sure, but I think you just said what I had previously said. Here's a bit more detail. If a computer's OS is completely "conversational" as predicted by Mustafa Suleyman at Microsoft, and this is where ChatGPT is, where Android's Gemini is going, and where Microsoft wants to be, then nothing distinguishes an iPhone's ease of use paradigm from that offered by any other player offering a device with the capabilities of an iPhone because they are all just devices with natural language command structures to do multi-layered tasks to accomplish complex outcomes. As I previously said, it seems Apple has determined that compatibility across devices is now its best way to distinguish itself precisely because it can see the writing on the wall with conversational OSes everywhere. Apple also made it clear that it plans to make this seamlessness between apps available to third-party developers at some level. SDKs and APIs either already exist or are being actively developed by Apple to provide at least some OS level access to this new way of using apps to third parties. I suppose this could mean that I would be able to specify in advance that when it comes to maps and directions to use Google Maps instead of Apple Maps (which I would certainly do as of now). On the other hand, Google may decide it is no longer in its best interest to offer Apple much of anything so it can say it has the best tools for its devices on its conversational OS. Eventually, I cannot see how smaller third party developers would be able to survive, since people are generally not going to want to "launch an app" in order to use its specified and limited capabilities. Of course, for specific purposes (e.g. data intelligence apps) this might still make sense.

I am trying to think back to the creation of the Mac, which might have been the only other time the OS itself was the "killer app."

 

[Supermallet]

I'm not sure, but I think you just said what I had previously said. Here's a bit more detail. If a computer's OS is completely "conversational" as predicted by Mustafa Suleyman at Microsoft, and this is where ChatGPT is, where Android's Gemini is going, and where Microsoft wants to be, then nothing distinguishes an iPhone's ease of use paradigm from that offered by any other player offering a device with the capabilities of an iPhone because they are all just devices with natural language command structures to do multi-layered tasks to accomplish complex outcomes. As I previously said, it seems Apple has determined that compatibility across devices is now its best way to distinguish itself precisely because it can see the writing on the wall with conversational OSes everywhere.

But Apple has been creating interconnected features between its devices for a very long time, it’s a major part of how they keep people in the walled garden. Apple Intelligence is just the latest in an ongoing trend and nothing new for Apple at all.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I noticed that Apple said we don't have to take their word on their private cloud compute b/c their system can be audited by any independent expert. They didn't claim the same about openAI

Yeah but Apple won’t be sending them the IP or other information in the first place, right?

 

[Tagbert]

Yeah but Apple won’t be sending them the IP or other information in the first place, right?

Apple mentioned in the keynote and has expanded on this in panels at WWDC. OpenAI will not get your IP address. They are legally bound by their contract with Apple to not use your data for their training or to retain your data for any purpose.

 

[michaeljk]

Apple mentioned in the keynote and has expanded on this in panels at WWDC. OpenAI will not get your IP address. They are legally bound by their contract with Apple to not use your data for their training or to retain your data for any purpose.

Apple also said they would ensure that whatever the source for the outside AI assistance (e.g. whichever company's servers are being used) Apple would require that the hardware and software be capable of being inspected and verified by third parties to make sure that the terms of the contract (no keeping data) are followed. I suppose this is because even if Apple and the third-party AI are able to ensure no IP addresses are being collected, your privacy and identity could still be capable of capture by the third party based merely on the queries you make to that third-party, depending on the specificity of the queries you are making, or proprietary company data is being captured by the third party. What doesn't seem trustworthy is that these third-parties would want to at least retain the queries themselves to use them as training modules to evolve their AIs, which would be forbidden by Apple. If this is true, then what's the incentive for these third-parties? Is it merely monetary (is Apple paying them some kind of flat fee or per search fee)?