Apple Lobbies Against 'Right to Repair' Bill Over Privacy Concerns of Third Party Repair Shops Accessing User Data

[randyhudson]

That is fine and should be true ...as long as the user understands that ANY and ALL problems and ramifications afterwards are solely on the shoulders of that user and Apple has no responsibility to step in and remediate. If that 3rd party repair shop F's the device over, then the resolution is between you and the repair shop and if in the end you have to either buy a new device....or take it to Apple, then be prepared to open your wallet.

Also, the user should also understand that they will be expected to PAY for ALL service they may have RECEIVED from a 3RD party repair shop. AND, those repairs may TAKE some time, so the user should expect to wait some amount of time for the repair to be performed. Finally, the shop may CLOSE in the evening, and reopen again the next morning, except for Sundays where the shop may open later in the day or not at all.

 

[subi257]

You don’t own Apple devices, you rent them for a high premium. That’s why I’ll never buy an Apple car. They will start telling me how to drive and what I can or can’t do with or to it.

You own (unless it's leased) the physical item, you don't own any software those are leased as specified in the EULA as that is considered Intellectual Property

 

[subi257]

So, I wonder does all the same chatter like this go on on non Apple device forums?....Samsung, Google, etc?

 

[BGPL]

Nothing like justifying greed by claiming you're concerned with data privacy. Only the very weak minded would actually buy this. How in the world could a mom and pop repair shop access my encrypted data exactly? It's ridiculous, they would need a GrayKey license and quite a bit of time for every customer.

 

[Mac... nificent]

One of our cars has 2 batteries and they must be exactly the same VW brand and size. It's very picky about them. Somehow it knows if you've bought a non VW brand.

Same for Dell laptop chargers. They put a chip in there and if you buy an aftermarket charger there is a big ugly notice about it on your screen that says it's not a 'genuine' part that won't go away...

 

[jlc1978]

I think this is a great idea.

And since Apple won't make the parts directly available to device end users, this law would make it possible for me to buy the part from an independent third-party repair shop and fix the device myself.

Yea. To fix a 10$ part Apple will sell the third party shop a 1500$ motherboard they will sell to yo for1800$.

 

[jlc1978]

Just my .02 as I am somebody that grew up doing construction and renovation work and a lifelong car guy, I have seen what can go wrong. Decades ago, I went to check the ignition timing on a '67 Triumph Spitfire. I had a Delta MK10B capacitor discharge ignition system in it. I think i accidentally brushed a spark plug wire.....I'm not sure,, but the next thing I remember, I was lying on the ground 10' ways from the car.

30000 volts under the hood will do that to you, but I don’t believe you. Everyone knows the rest of the Lucas electrical system would prevent the car from running.

 

[subi257]

30000 volts under the hood will do that to you, but I don’t believe you. Everyone knows the rest of the Lucas electrical try system would prevent the car from running.

That was an aftermarket system and it put out 40kv. I don't leave cars as is.....ever....but then the dealers tell me GTFO if I bring it for any service and independent shops...including my brother who has a shop won't touch it because it's so modified that they have no baseline to start diagnostics from.

And yes, Lucas electric sucked.

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[dk001]

Specifically, the bill would require Apple and others to directly provide independent third-party repair shops with the parts, instructions, and schematics to repair devices less than $5,000. With that price threshold, most Apple products such as iPhones, iPads, Apple Watches, and many Macs would be subject to the bill.

What a joke.
That high lights one of the biggest issues; you have the skillset to effect repairs and the tools to execute them, however the OEM will either (or both) refuse to provide schematics or allow access to parts. There has been hearings in DC on this over the last couple of years and still ...

I would rather choose the repair facility rather than have Apple in this case decide to which contracted 3rd party they will send my device to. JMO

 

[subi257]

What a joke.
That high lights one of the biggest issues; you have the skillset to effect repairs and the tools to execute them, however the OEM will either (or both) refuse to provide schematics or allow access to parts. There has been hearings in DC on this over the last couple of years and still ...

I would rather choose the repair facility rather than have Apple in this case decide to which contracted 3rd party they will send my device to. JMO

I'm not positive, but I think schematics can be considered intellectual property. I think that most manufacturers don't/won't supply schematics.

 

[dk001]

Yes, people have the right to make many stupid decisions. Just as long as they don’t then turn around and smear Apple for privacy problems. And should Apple honor all warranty claims from people who first took their device to any hack with a mall booth who metaphorically had at it with a chisel and a pliers? Want to fix your phone with someone Apple doesn’t vouch for? Fine. Should be legal. As should Apple’s position that if you do, you could screw things up and it’s not their fault or problem.

Shoot, I don’t even get my car engine fixed by anyone but the dealer because it’s so bloody electronic that I don’t trust that Joe Garage knows what they’re doing and won’t make it worse.

There is a big difference between a "Warranty Repair" facility and a "hack".
Warranty - I will always take it to the authorized facility. My 12PM fails/breaks it is going to Apple
Post Warranty - I'll make that decision. My grand-daughters 8Plus breaks it is going to a local shop I trust.

 

[dk001]

I'm not positive, but I think schematics can be considered intellectual property. I think that most manufacturers don't/won't supply schematics.

I may be wrong but most schematics are copyrighted. That is intellectual but better protected. I think.

 

[priamXus]

""unvetted third parties" having access to the personal information stored in consumer electronics"

What a weak ass excuse, that is completely and entirely the customers decision, NOT the device manufacturer.

If you ask me it’s true. I’ve been several times at some approved third parties repair locations in Montreal and they ask for users password. Had to fight against them to tell them it’s not true or needed.

 

[1258186]

Any excuse to stop users repairing and extending the life of their Apple devices so they have to buy a new one.

 

[subi257]

I may be wrong but most schematics are copyrighted. That is intellectual but better protected. I think.

You could be the correct one. I work in corporate TV and I have noticed that the manufacturers have become much more protective of schematics.....from the broadcast equipment level.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

Probably to avoid the wrath of John Deere and Tesla, for now. Nevada picking its battles, which is the smart thing to do. Better strategy to improve its chance of passing and potentially expand down the line.

There are bills released in many different states. Some are broad, some are narrow. Which works? Which is successful?

In some states, trying to pass something might be simpler if you avoid the John Deere lobby. If you look, many states DO include tractors in their right to repair legislation.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

What b-o-l-o-g-n-a.

When you send your device for repair to Apple, it does not go to Apple.

It goes to whichever contractor is currently giving Apple the best deal.

Your data is safer, if that's your concern, with a local store you know than the actual unvetted, third party contractors Apple uses for repairs.

Even if you bring it to an Apple Store, for a lot of repairs Apple is going to send it out. And when they send it out, they are not sending it to a pristine laboratory of "geniuses." Not even to Apple employees.

It's beyond bologna.

You get it!

If the customer strongly values full privacy... don't give me the passcode. Problem solved.

We ask the customer for their passcode if they want us to test the device it is returned to them. So we can test the machine, in their operating system, to ensure it boots, for a 100% guarantee that they get back a working device that boots into their OS. Or, for phones, to ensure earpiece/front/back cam/microphone/etc all works. It sucks when you tell someone to come pick up their device, you give it to them, and it doesn't boot when they enter their password due to OS corruption - when it did boot for me into my external drive's operating system.

You are 100% capable of not giving us the passcode to the device, minimizing our ability to test every function, but still allowing us to fix the device for you, while granting us zero access to your data.

Privacy concerns have nothing to do with right to repair and everything to do with them.

When you send a device to Apple, it often gets farmed out to a third party company where new employees working near minimum wage with minimal training will be doing the work.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

I always go direct to the manufacturer for repairs. You get better warranty coverage and official parts. Also it just sits better in my mind.

That's your right man! Some people prefer going direct to the manufacturer, some don't. It depends.

If you have a device that is $3000 and the manufacturer fixes it for $100, go with the manufacturer.
If you have a device that is worth $1300 and the manufacturer quotes you $1900, and the independent $75, go with the independent.

Right to Repair is about the freedom to choose who fixes the device. I send people to Apple in my store every day for repairs where they make more sense - it was on the about us/ethics page of my website for ten years. If someone else is a better option, we'll let the customer know; every time.

 

[mi7chy]

The original Apple under Steve Wozniak in the 1970s and 1980s even provided schematics to aid in rights to repair. The one under Tim Cook has to resort to privacy scare mongering while having no issue handing user data over to CCP.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

Yes, people have the right to make many stupid decisions. Just as long as they don’t then turn around and smear Apple for privacy problems. And should Apple honor all warranty claims from people who first took their device to any hack with a mall booth who metaphorically had at it with a chisel and a pliers? Want to fix your phone with someone Apple doesn’t vouch for? Fine. Should be legal. As should Apple’s position that if you do, you could screw things up and it’s not their fault or problem.

Shoot, I don’t even get my car engine fixed by anyone but the dealer because it’s so bloody electronic that I don’t trust that Joe Garage knows what they’re doing and won’t make it worse.

Magnuson moss act says that if the manufacturer wants to decline service, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer to demonstrate that the user voided their warranty. You can't void a warranty just because someone opened it, but you can void the warranty if an idiot repair shop longscrew damages the phone or heatguns the CPU. I agree with you in principle, on the specific point that, you take responsibility for what you do to your device.

I have had customers who heatgun or destroy a product after we fix it once. I show them what they did, and tell them why I cannot help them afterwards.I get it.

At the same time, back tot he A1286 2011 days - the dying AMD GPU. When Apple issued an extended warranty program in 2015, customers of mine were coming in and saying that they tried to get it fixed by Apple under warranty but they wouldn't cover it because I replaced their HDD with an SSD. They would come in asking me for their original hard drive(from 3 yrs ago that was long since recycled, lots of customers don't want the old part back). That kind of stuff is BS - you can't void a warranty because someone replaced their hard drive with an SSD. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to demonstrate how what you did to the device voided its warranty.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

To be fair, the amount of data a service person has when they have your phone or computer is incredible. If you keep a bunch of nudes or anything sensitive on your devices, chances are the service person will have seen it unless you are particularly good about hiding them. Sure, Apple shouldn’t be forcing where you get your device fixed, but the fact that so many people know so little about their devices makes me concerned, especially when they are looking for the lowest deals on a repair. There’s no way for the average person to tell if their data has been collected.

That being said, it’s still quite a bit of a stretch for Apple. Any service person, including their own Geniuses, could potentially steal data.

If you ask me to fix your phone and do not give me the passcode, I have access to nothing; at least if we are discussing modern iPhones, where there is no microSD card slot, and the onboard data is encrypted.

 

[Td1970]

You say this but when a third party repair shop could hack your device and steal your money or worse then who you gonna run crying to when you have no evidence of what happened?

How would they do this without you face scan or finger print?

 

[Td1970]

Also, the user should also understand that they will be expected to PAY for ALL service they may have RECEIVED from a 3RD party repair shop. AND, those repairs may TAKE some time, so the user should expect to wait some amount of time for the repair to be performed. Finally, the shop may CLOSE in the evening, and reopen again the next morning, except for Sundays where the shop may open later in the day or not at all.

Why wouldnt you have to pay for service?

 

[l.a.rossmann]

You say this but when a third party repair shop could hack your device and steal your money or worse then who you gonna run crying to when you have no evidence of what happened?

When you send the device to the manufacturer, they often farm it out to underpaid people with 1-2 weeks of experience, making near minimum wage, in a building that has 5 bathrooms for 500 people. Including Apple

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/acqwut

Someone in this situation is more financially motivated to steal your device than any one of my employees.

And that's the point - you do you. You fix the device the way you want to fix it. You hire the people you want to hire. You bring the device to people you want to bring it to. I believe in personal freedom, which means a company doesn't get to limit your freedom, or my freedom, invoking the principle of being my mommy. I'm a grown up, I can protect myself.

 

[l.a.rossmann]

The original Apple under Steve Wozniak in the 1970s and 1980s even provided schematics to aid in rights to repair. The one under Tim Cook has to resort to privacy scare mongering while having no issue handing user data over to CCP.

We lived in a fundamentally different world back then, when it came to freedom. Imagine having this fight over fixing your vehicle. No one here would be having any of it. We've been conditioned to accept this over time as the way for consumer electronics.