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This is precisely the bozo parade that Steve Jobs warned us about.

:mad:

Considers what type of personnel filter they use during the hiring process. Apple has one of the most unique and bizarre qualifications to hire full time employees. You can be sharply dressed, all the right degrees and all the right positions and still not get hired. Someone walking in with a 4 o'clock shadow, ripped jeans and the right ideas are hired on the spot. Apple has a good history of keeping "bozo's" away whom are just there to take up time, space and keep their mortgage payments going.
 
This is just great.....

Apple under Tim Cook has been unable to innovate and is falling behind the pack like what happened to BlackBerry.

And now Apple wants to hire BlackBerry employees who cannot help stop the sinking of their own ship?

I just don't see how turning to north of the border for employees would help Apple in any meaningful way.

In fact, I think that it will hurt Apple and make matters worse at Apple because up north in Canada, the corporate and social culture is based on exclusion of outsiders and barriers to entry and is generally anti-competitive.

Couple that anti-competitive culture to the chronic inability of those presently at Apple to innovate, you will have a disastrous combination for a perfect storm.

I think this is exactly what Jobs warned about when talking about the merger or partnership of two other companies years ago.
 
This is just great.....

Apple under Tim Cook has been unable to innovate and is falling behind the pack like what happened to BlackBerry.

And now Apple wants to hire BlackBerry employees who cannot help stop the sinking of their own ship?

I just don't see how turning to north of the border for employees would help Apple in any meaningful way.

In fact, I think that it will hurt Apple and make matters worse at Apple because up north in Canada, the corporate and social culture is based on exclusion of outsiders and barriers to entry and is generally anti-competitive.

Couple that anti-competitive culture to the chronic inability of those presently at Apple to innovate, you will have a disastrous combination for a perfect storm.

I think this is exactly what Jobs warned about when talking about the merger or partnership of two other companies years ago.

Well... that's a bit of a speculation but I'll agree with you ;) The problem is that there are very few people that have the skill that Jobs had. He just knows what looks good and what people will like. This is the most valuable skill in marketing. He could instantly look at 10 products and know if they would rock our world.

The problem with those visionaries is that they are usually ahead of their time when younger but when they get older they are outstanding like Steve was. Apple may never get that again. I'm not sure I can think of a major tech company that is being led by a visionary right now. So as much as this is what Steve warned about, there isn't much to do about it.
 
Hahaha, IDK, plus those are some pretty terrible beer choices (that was Google > Candian Beer Images results ... ) :D

Sounds outstanding. We just picked up some Brooklyn Octoberfest and Accumulation White IPA, the fall/winter seasonals are coming in ... got my order in for a case of Weyerbacher Imperial Pumpkin :)
Anchor Brewing Celebration Ale is the king of seasonals. It literally crushes the rest.
1321634778Christmas%20Ale%20-%20Anchor.jpg



yeesh, I guess the image function dont work too great.
 
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…..And now Apple wants to hire BlackBerry employees who cannot help stop the sinking of their own ship?…..

The sinking of Blackberry has more to do with management decisions, than with the level of expertise of their engineering/design teams.

Apple is not on a blanket hiring spree; they're looking for top talent, before they're snapped up by others, a smart move imho.
 
Blackberry is still the only mobile platform with actual enterprise-grade security. It's why it still has a hold within corporate and particularly federal/state governments.

IOS and Android are way behind in that department. They're both security nightmares that corporations are being forced to address due to demand of the platforms. IOS is slightly better than Android, but both are way behind RIM in this department.

Both IOS and Android are improving, however, but there's a long way to go.
Your dreaming
 
So I assume that you don't work for a major publicly traded corporation then?

When you work for a large organization your hands are tied by what management wants to do. The management at RIM could not see the forest for the trees and insisted on trying to milk their BES ecosystem for all they could before they even considered looking at a replacement for their Operating System. BB 10 was too little too late and had they moved two years earlier, they might have had a fighting chance.

It is hard to make bricks without straw.

As for their build quality, I understand that began to deteriorate even further as they switched OEMs in an effort to cut costs.

I wish it was just giant public corporations. The small family-owned company I work for is the same way. Mis-managed within an inch (give or take) of it's miserable life, with nearly a manager/worker ratio of 1/1 and zero understanding of design, designers, or the design process. I'm completely handcuffed to the whims of multiple bosses & managers, not to mention Big Daddy (the owner)... It's a real learning experience.
 
... some others may be interested in parts of the company are purely speculative on the parts of those who have been writing articles on this development. As far as I know, so far none of these companies have responded positively to any of this publicly. Nor has there been any reliable reports of them doing so privately.

There is not alot of doubt by anyone counting shares that one of the founders was still around and interested:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/10/blackberry-co-founders-considering-bid-for-company/

and it documented in SEC filing at this point.


I'm suspicious of everything happening around Blackberry.

Blackberry looks quirky because they still are trying do go in multiple directions at the same time.


And Watsa right now, is not to be trusted, as he has lost literally billions on his failed investment in RIM over the years, and is desperate to get some of it back.

If Watsa and Lazaridis have two overlapping and somewhat conflicting plans to go forward then it isn't very surprising at all that this "take BB private" effort isn't coming together smoothly.

Each one of those two sides holds enough shares to clog up the process for anyone else.

Once again it is time that is going to be dilly-dallied away and likely bleed off more price.
 
The sinking of Blackberry has more to do with management decisions, than with the level of expertise of their engineering/design teams.

Apple is not on a blanket hiring spree; they're looking for top talent, before they're snapped up by others, a smart move imho.

What talent are you talking about son?

Have you actually been to Canada and specifically Ontario? Do you even know what the corporate and social culture is like north of the border?

The truth is that the economy in Canada is plagued by lack of competition and lack of innovation. There are some talents in Canada, but they are mostly highly educated immigrant with doctorate degrees who had to settle for Canada due to their US H1Bs expiring -- and no, they are not likely to be working at tech companies because they are excluded from most of the relevant jobs due to the anti-competitive and exclusionary corporate hiring practices up north that grossly favor locals -- rather, they are working at McDonalds and driving taxi cabs and delivering food.

So don't assume that the level of competition and innovation up north is the same or similar to that of the US.

If Apple has to turn to north of the border, not to mention a sinking ship, for talents -- then I think we as Apple stakeholders should all be extremely concerned.
 
If I was apple I would have just bought the whole company. 5billion is affordable on their wallets.
Get the patents, bbm, and selected few good personnel then sell and throw away the rest.

$5bn may be affordable to you, but wouldn't it be cheaper to pay $1bn for the patents, $500million for bbm (if Apple wants that), and hire the developers for free?

BTW. Companies don't own their employees. So buying BlackBerry doesn't buy you any employees that don't want to stay.
 
$5bn may be affordable to you, but wouldn't it be cheaper to pay $1bn for the patents, $500million for bbm (if Apple wants that), and hire the developers for free?

BTW. Companies don't own their employees. So buying BlackBerry doesn't buy you any employees that don't want to stay.

Seeing as the full price is cheaper than getting things separately according to what I read, it might be better to get the whole lot since their patents are prob worth way more than 1bn. Also, I know people can quit a company, but by buying the company they might get some people w/ contracts to stay... maybe creating a separate division that it would still apply their contracts, IDK don't really work w/ companies. And 5bn to apple is only 5% of their 100bn they have stashed; it can make the oldies that haven't stop using bb that also own stock happy.
 
All this time Blackberry sucks, can't do ****, etc etc all the smack talk but as soon as they are hired to work for Apple. They're smart, best assets, innovator...blah blah etc. *facepalm*
 
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This is precisely the bozo parade that Steve Jobs warned us about.

:mad:

BlackBerry programmers aren't necessarily untalented. All I can say is that their management and especially their CEO suck. And I feel bad for whoever bought the new joke they released.

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BTW. Companies don't own their employees. So buying BlackBerry doesn't buy you any employees that don't want to stay.

Makes sense, but what about employee contracts?
 
What talent are you talking about son?

Have you actually been to Canada and specifically Ontario? Do you even know what the corporate and social culture is like north of the border?

The truth is that the economy in Canada is plagued by lack of competition and lack of innovation. There are some talents in Canada, but they are mostly highly educated immigrant with doctorate degrees who had to settle for Canada due to their US H1Bs expiring -- and no, they are not likely to be working at tech companies because they are excluded from most of the relevant jobs due to the anti-competitive and exclusionary corporate hiring practices up north that grossly favor locals -- rather, they are working at McDonalds and driving taxi cabs and delivering food.

So don't assume that the level of competition and innovation up north is the same or similar to that of the US.

If Apple has to turn to north of the border, not to mention a sinking ship, for talents -- then I think we as Apple stakeholders should all be extremely concerned.

As an immigrant, I can confirm that this is true. My father was not able to land a job as an Engineer with excellent english and 20 years of experience in Canada because he did not have "Canadian experience." The part about people driving cabs is also true. I just met a cab driver the other day who is veterinarian by trade, but is driving a cab and moonlighting as a real estate agent on the side.

Not sure what the US is like, but I studied about this so-called institutional discrimination in our sociology class at undergrad level.
 
What talent are you talking about son?

Have you actually been to Canada and specifically Ontario? Do you even know what the corporate and social culture is like north of the border?

The truth is that the economy in Canada is plagued by lack of competition and lack of innovation. There are some talents in Canada, but they are mostly highly educated immigrant with doctorate degrees who had to settle for Canada due to their US H1Bs expiring -- and no, they are not likely to be working at tech companies because they are excluded from most of the relevant jobs due to the anti-competitive and exclusionary corporate hiring practices up north that grossly favor locals -- rather, they are working at McDonalds and driving taxi cabs and delivering food.

So don't assume that the level of competition and innovation up north is the same or similar to that of the US.

If Apple has to turn to north of the border, not to mention a sinking ship, for talents -- then I think we as Apple stakeholders should all be extremely concerned.

I hear what you're saying, but I find it hard to believe that all of those workers are incompetent and anti-competitive by nature, and I still believe Blackberry's woes are attributable to poor management decisions rather than lack of talent of their workforce.

I'm going to trust Tim and his team, to only pick the very best talent that, rather than being an albatross, can make a positive contribution at Apple.
 
As an immigrant, I can confirm that this is true. My father was not able to land a job as an Engineer with excellent english and 20 years of experience in Canada because he did not have "Canadian experience." The part about people driving cabs is also true. I just met a cab driver the other day who is veterinarian by trade, but is driving a cab and moonlighting as a real estate agent on the side.

Not sure what the US is like, but I studied about this so-called institutional discrimination in our sociology class at undergrad level.

Generally, vis-a-vis Canada, the U.S. is much more competitive and open; there are also discrimination and racism in the U.S., but one generally does not encounter such incidents too frequently, and when one does encounter them, they are usually overt and direct; people tend to let you know upfront their real views of you directly and there is no attempt to hide behind some euphemism. But generally, if one is willing to work hard and has good education, skills and intelligence, one can move up the social ladder fairly fast in the U.S. There is no use of euphemism and code phrase such as "U.S. Experience" (like the pervasive use of the code phrase "Canadian Experience" in Canada) to exclude outsiders, because it is illegal and its illegality is recognized generally by employers.

Whereas in Canada, the discrimination and racism are very discreet, hidden and indirect; it is nonetheless pervasive. Also, it tends to take the form of passive aggressive refusal and withholding of cooperation towards immigrants (especially non-white immigrants) who tend to be excluded from the relevant jobs due to the highly entrenched barriers that pervade the social structure. Quite simply, it is more about social barriers and exclusion; and less about merits and willingness to work; and outsiders and competition tend to be shunned in a discreet but pervasive manner.

The point is, one really wonders what Apple is thinking looking for employees and talents in a sinking ship like BlackBerry.

If Apple wishes to innovate and create, it would do well looking elsewhere. The closed, anti-competitive, inward-looking, risk-averse and narrow mindset north of the border just does not fit with and is actually the opposite of the "Think Different" and "Think Outside the Box" culture that Jobs had sought to instill in Apple.

But yes, it is very worrying, because Apple under Tim Cook is now dangerously resembling almost in an exact manner what BlackBerry was like several years ago.
 
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Smart move Apple. BB employees are pretty much their best assets.

Not the ones that are left.

The best and brightest jumped ship a long time ago.

Actually... the best and brightest never joined the company being in Waterloo (nice city, but not a place where someone ambitious would want to live). The best and brightest left Waterloo for the glittering lights of Silicon Valley. Others went to major markets like Toronto, New York, Texas, etc.

Those that remained (and I don't know why they would?) were hired by RIM.

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it was the CEOs who had BB on the wrong path.

Perhaps, but BB's mentality of Enterprise only was prevalent all through the early 2000s. I had an interview with the company when Palm OS and Windows CE ruled and they dismissed consumer products as not being an important market. How wrong they were...

They never offered me a job there... in hindsight probably a good thing? :D

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Not surprising Apple is looking to snap up some of Blackberry's top talent. Lack of talent at the design/engineering level isn't what brought them down.

Actually it is... It's hard getting decent talent in Waterloo. Those that stay in Waterloo aren't the best engineers around. Decent, but not the best.

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As an immigrant, I can confirm that this is true. My father was not able to land a job as an Engineer with excellent english and 20 years of experience in Canada because he did not have "Canadian experience." The part about people driving cabs is also true. I just met a cab driver the other day who is veterinarian by trade, but is driving a cab and moonlighting as a real estate agent on the side.

My parents generation were new immigrants and they're all very successful...

No taxi drivers, convenience store clerks in our family. I don't know if Canada should take all the blame ...


Whereas in Canada, the discrimination and racism are very discreet, hidden and indirect; it is nonetheless pervasive. Also, it tends to take the form of passive aggressive refusal and withholding of cooperation towards immigrants (especially non-white immigrants) who tend to be excluded from the relevant jobs due to the highly entrenched barriers that pervade the social structure. Quite simply, it is more about social barriers and exclusion; and less about merits and willingness to work; and outsiders and competition tend to be shunned in a discreet but pervasive manner.
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Such bitterness... It's interesting how some families succeed and others don't. Not sure if it is timing, culture, mentality, or just plain luck.
 
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Disagree about the brightest and best leaving early. When Jobs returned to Apple, there were tons of great people still there, who bled six colours. Or maybe there are other reasons to stay, like family stability or age or lack of other options in Canada.
 
Maybe Apple can start hire from Google aswell...

Then they might be able to create a real, working, gorgeous looking mobile OS. they could call it iDroid.


:apple:
 
Smart move Apple. BB employees are pretty much their best assets.
However, these folks should be given a really thick Usability and Design 101 book during their orientation and be forced to pass a test before being officially hired. And I'm really talking about basic stuff here.
 
However, these folks should be given a really thick Usability and Design 101 book during their orientation and be forced to pass a test before being officially hired. And I'm really talking about basic stuff here.

Not if they only get to work on the email stuff. Apple could in fact learn a lot from their approach. The Mail app is pretty hideous and clumsy in comparison.
 
Some of their engineers are smart people. The real bozos there were in upper level management. The top bozos were the two co-CEOs.

As long as Apple does not hire away any of their executives they should be ok.

I agree completely. The engineers were most certainly not the problem. It was the idiots at the top.
 
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