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Apple Loses Another iPhone Prototype at a Bar

bearcatrp said:
Sounds like BS but would have told apple and cops to get a warrant before allowing any search. Since nothing was found, sue apple for false accusation. Since when does a local police department help any company without filing a report of a crime? Was it a crime? Apple is starting to sound like the old nazi polzi.
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First of all, the police and Apple asked--I'm sure very politely-- the occupant of the home if they could search it, and the occupant agreed. There's no requirement that there be probable cause, much less a warrant, if the person living in the home voluntarily waives his Fourth Amendment rights.

Secondly, there is no such tort or crime as "false accusation". The individual was not arrested, and you can't defame a person to himself. I'm quite sure that Apple simply told the police that they had electronically tracked their prototype to a location and asked the police for assistance in dealing with the occupant of that location to determine if the prototype was still there, or if the occupant had any knowledge of it. There is no evidence that Apple informed the police that this individual had committed a crime or otherwise defamed him, nor is there any report that the individual was arrested or detained.

Thirdly, there is no legal or administrative requirement that a complaint or police report be filed before the police can perform a service. The police help individuals and companies all the time without someone claiming that a crime has been committed. Lost children are returned to their parents, police help people at an accident scene, noisy neighbors are asked to turn down the music, and police cars patrol parking lots and check doors at the request of businesses all the time, all without a police report. It's really better that the police were there when Apple came to a citizen's door asking questions, much better than a private citizen trying to handle the situation alone.

Lastly, Nazis were very, very bad people. Whenever someone obeys Godwin's Law and compares someone or some entity whose actions are not to their particular taste to the Nazis it makes it seem as if the Nazis weren't all that bad. They were that bad, and a lot of our fathers and grandfathers risked or gave their lives to make them go away.

I think its better to simply describe what actions are objectionable, explain what harm is likely as a result, and perhaps what action might be taken to help prevent such actions in the future. Invoking Nazis or Hitler's mother seldom advances a discussion very much.
 
If Apple really did leave it in a restaurant on purpose in order to get buzz, then it's absolutely the biggest ****** move to then bring cops to some dude's house after tracking it there. I don't believe they are that bad.

I think they lost it for real (which is incredibly dumb) or the story is bogus to begin with. Clever ad for the restaurant? Whatever. The number of locals reading this story that are suddenly going to eat there just because of this isn't worth the tarnish on Apple's reputation for excellence. The story lowers my opinion of Apple on two fronts... one for having lame employees and two for sending cops after it.

If the story is real, imagine how bad this could have turned out. Say the finder was also a wanted felon. There are a lot of those around, believe me. He unloads a shotgun out the door instead of opening it, leaving the cop and Apple employee gargling on their own blood. NOW how much is that phone worth? Priceless plus the lives of two people? Priceless x3?

In no case should Apple show up with cops at people's houses in order to retrieve lost items. They should offer a reward for it, or kiss it goodbye. Lives are priceless, phones are not.

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Cartaphilus said:
The police help individuals and companies all the time without someone claiming that a crime has been committed. Lost children are returned to their parents, police help people at an accident scene, noisy neighbors are asked to turn down the music, and police cars patrol parking lots and check doors at the request of businesses all the time, all without a police report. It's really better that the police were there when Apple came to a citizen's door asking questions, much better than a private citizen trying to handle the situation alone.
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Lost children, accident scenes and even noisy neighbors are a far cry from lost and found police. The first two are "lives at stake" situations, and calling cops on noisy neighbors is keeping the peace to prevent confrontations which could become violent. None of that applies in the case of a lost phone. I'm sad that the police think it's in their best interest to help the richest company in the world keep their slippery toys a secret.
 
wonderspark said:
Lost children, accident scenes and even noisy neighbors are a far cry from lost and found police. The first two are "lives at stake" situations, and calling cops on noisy neighbors is keeping the peace to prevent confrontations which could become violent. None of that applies in the case of a lost phone. I'm sad that the police think it's in their best interest to help the richest company in the world keep their slippery toys a secret.
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So let me understand your position: the police ought to keep the peace to prevent confrontations when they are asked by a citizen complaining about a noisy neighbor, but not if that citizen is too rich?; that the police ought to accept the risk of gargling blood to get someone to turn down the music, but not if someone may have stolen very valuable property?; that wanted felons (of which there are a lot) might steal a valuable prototype and kill police officers with a shotgun, but they are not the sort who could bring themselves to play music loudly, so the police needn't worry about any danger in handling that situation?

I can't think of any reasonably likely scenario where the prototype could have ended up in that dwelling unless someone who found the lost phone decided not to try to return it to its rightful owner, and that is theft under California law. If a citizen or a company--regardless of how much or how little money they have--has a reasonable belief that their stolen property was, and maybe still is, in someone else's house, they ought to have every right to ask the police to assist them in making inquiries. The police should be expected to lend some reasonable level of assistance, consistent with their other demands and resources.

Whatever risk of confrontation might arise out of a neighbor going next door to politely ask that the music be lowered pales in comparison with the risks of asking a stranger pointed questions about stolen property. If we don't allow the police to assist in that situation, and if we wish to avoid those breaches of the peace that we know can arise when citizens confront each other without the assistance of the police, then the only policy left is to tell a rightful owner to allow a thief or receiver to retain his property. I don't think that becoming a wealthy company or individual results in the loss of property rights or in the forfeiture of police protection and aid. The police can certainly charge Apple for the value of their time and any other costs incurred, and I'm sure Apple wouldn't object regardless of how much taxes they already pay. Isn't that really the best way to handle something like this?
 
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Cartaphilus said:
wonderspark said:
Lost children, accident scenes and even noisy neighbors are a far cry from lost and found police. The first two are "lives at stake" situations, and calling cops on noisy neighbors is keeping the peace to prevent confrontations which could become violent. None of that applies in the case of a lost phone. I'm sad that the police think it's in their best interest to help the richest company in the world keep their slippery toys a secret.
Click to expand...

So let me understand your position: the police ought to keep the peace to prevent confrontations when they are asked by a citizen complaining about a noisy neighbor, but not if that citizen is too rich?; that the police ought to accept the risk of gargling blood to get someone to turn down the music, but not if someone may have stolen very valuable property?; that wanted felons (of which there are a lot) might steal a valuable prototype and kill police officers with a shotgun, but they are not the sort who could bring themselves to play music loudly, so the police needn't worry about any danger in handling that situation?

I can't think of any reasonably likely scenario where the prototype could have ended up in that dwelling unless someone who found the lost phone decided not to try to return it to its rightful owner, and that is theft under California law. If a citizen or a company--regardless of how much or how little money they have--has a reasonable belief that their stolen property was, and maybe still is, in someone else's house, they ought to have every right to ask the police to assist them in making inquiries. The police should be expected to lend some reasonable level of assistance, consistent with their other demands and resources.

Whatever risk of confrontation might arise out of a neighbor going next door to politely ask that the music be lowered pales in comparison with the risks of asking a stranger pointed questions about stolen property. If we don't allow the police to assist in that situation, and if we wish to avoid those breaches of the peace that we know can arise when citizens confront each other without the assistance of the police, then the only policy left is to tell a rightful owner to allow a thief or receiver to retain his property. I don't think that becoming a wealthy company or individual results in the loss of property rights or in the forfeiture of police protection and aid. The police can certainly charge Apple for the value of their time and any other costs incurred, and I'm sure Apple wouldn't object regardless of how much taxes they already pay. Isn't that really the best way to handle something like this?
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Boring
 
The new PR campaign starts again, LOL :)

What did the new CEO say "Nothing will change"
 
Cartaphilus said:
So let me understand your position: the police ought to keep the peace to prevent confrontations when they are asked by a citizen complaining about a noisy neighbor, but not if that citizen is too rich?; that the police ought to accept the risk of gargling blood to get someone to turn down the music, but not if someone may have stolen very valuable property?; that wanted felons (of which there are a lot) might steal a valuable prototype and kill police officers with a shotgun, but they are not the sort who could bring themselves to play music loudly, so the police needn't worry about any danger in handling that situation?

I can't think of any reasonably likely scenario where the prototype could have ended up in that dwelling unless someone who found the lost phone decided not to try to return it to its rightful owner, and that is theft under California law. If a citizen or a company--regardless of how much or how little money they have--has a reasonable belief that their stolen property was, and maybe still is, in someone else's house, they ought to have every right to ask the police to assist them in making inquiries. The police should be expected to lend some reasonable level of assistance, consistent with their other demands and resources.

Whatever risk of confrontation might arise out of a neighbor going next door to politely ask that the music be lowered pales in comparison with the risks of asking a stranger pointed questions about stolen property. If we don't allow the police to assist in that situation, and if we wish to avoid those breaches of the peace that we know can arise when citizens confront each other without the assistance of the police, then the only policy left is to tell a rightful owner to allow a thief or receiver to retain his property. I don't think that becoming a wealthy company or individual results in the loss of property rights or in the forfeiture of police protection and aid. The police can certainly charge Apple for the value of their time and any other costs incurred, and I'm sure Apple wouldn't object regardless of how much taxes they already pay. Isn't that really the best way to handle something like this?
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On taking care of noisy neighbors, it's not a money issue, it's a violence issue. People get angry when they're trying to sleep through horrendous noise. A lost phone is a non-violent event.

And no, I'd say wanted felons (as dumb as they may be) almost always lie low unless they're unaware of their wanted status. Blasting a stereo in the middle of the night brings cops, and they try to avoid that.

I agree that anyone from a homeless victim to Apple has the legal right to call the cops on anyone they feel like, but I disagree that it is a good idea in the case of Apple and their lost phone. It's a well-documented fact that knocking on the door of a home in a police uniform is one of the most dangerous things a cop can do, and it's far better for Apple to exercise smarter tactics to getting the phone back than risking lives for it.

They happen to have plenty of money, and the reason the holder of the lost phone would want to sell it is for... money! In this case, it's said to be a whole $200. Priceless vs. $200... big difference. Apple could have paid another $200 for the contact info of the person it was sold to, and another $500 to the new holder of the phone, spending $700 total.

Are YOU saying that risking lives is better than paying $700? How about $1000, or $10,000? What do you believe is the value of a human life? We can try to twist the views of each other all we like, or we can acknowledge that strong-arm tactics make Apple look bad and put people at risk. It's not like paying to retrieve a lost phone will set a precedent for stealing more phones, since both of these cases started with an idiot misplacing Apple's property. Now, if thieves were assaulting Apple's labs and stealing prototypes at gunpoint, I might say yeah, send in Seal Team Six and get those holier-than-the-Crown-Jewels phones back using any means necessary.

Phones: Not worth a life.
 
Apple could FedEx a letter to the address, and in that letter they could state their evidence for believing the phone was at that address, followed with a reward for the phone's return and contact info to negotiate. If the people with the phone think they can get more for it elsewhere and try to sell it despite Apple's efforts, that only makes Apple's legal case even stronger, having notified the finder that the phone rightfully belongs to Apple and trying to handle it in a peaceful, win-win manner. Now the finder is worthy of police action, and if it ends in a gun battle at that point, it was never going to be pretty to begin with.

I'd like to think Apple thinks these things through and comes up with smarter solutions than "OUR PHONE IS GONE? CALL THE COPS!"
 
Add another bullet item to the list of Criticism of Apple:

Macs have only one mouse button - check.
Macs are overpriced - check
Macs don't have as many applications as Windows - check
Steve won't let me install Bonzi Buddy on the Home Screen - check
...
Apple loses their phones at every bar - check
 
I smell a rat !

OK, You work for Apple, (the coolist comapnay in the world)
They give a prototype device to test. Meanwhile a year before one is lost and the person's respnsible were disiplined (FIRED?)
So you are going to go INTO A BAR GET HAMMERERED AND LOOSE YOUR DEVICE ?
Even Apple Genius Bar employees arn't that stupid !
 
ridesdeepsnow said:
All I know is that if I was lucky enough to work for Apple I sure as hell would not be stupid enough to lost the new prototype at any cost. How about having a cloned SIM card for another phone when you decide to go drinking and may lose your mind while drinking at a Tequila bar in San Fran?

And honestly, Apple has no right wasting any taxpayer's money using the Police in this matter.
If you or I "LOST" our phone drinking they would tell you to get bent before they are going to do anything cause they aren't responsible in that matter. The San Francisco Police are not Apple's private security firm.

If the phone was "priceless" why is some idiot taking it to a Tequila bar? To test it in "real world" situations? I am sure the 99% of the time that employee has the prototype to test is good enough and taking it to the tequila bar can stay in the truck or something.
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Valid argument regarding SFPD. I guess they have become Apple's lost and found attendants.
 
Twice in a row?? yeah right lol!

Nobody lost anything.
All staged media event.
Anybody that believes otherwise has some serious lack of brain cells.
 
ridesdeepsnow said:
All I know is that if I was lucky enough to work for Apple I sure as hell would not be stupid enough to lost the new prototype at any cost. How about having a cloned SIM card for another phone when you decide to go drinking and may lose your mind while drinking at a Tequila bar in San Fran?

And honestly, Apple has no right wasting any taxpayer's money using the Police in this matter.
If you or I "LOST" our phone drinking they would tell you to get bent before they are going to do anything cause they aren't responsible in that matter. The San Francisco Police are not Apple's private security firm.

If the phone was "priceless" why is some idiot taking it to a Tequila bar? To test it in "real world" situations? I am sure the 99% of the time that employee has the prototype to test is good enough and taking it to the tequila bar can stay in the truck or something.
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Pomeless said:
Valid argument regarding SFPD. I guess they have become Apple's lost and found attendants.
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Did it every occur to you than an un-released prototype device might actually be worth millions to a company? Especially when it comes to the idea of Intellectual Property.

I would be more suspect of the employee who "loses" the phone at a bar. He is the person who stands to gain the most out of something like this.
 
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Lot of clumsy people work for apple and a lot of criminals live in the Bay Area.
 
New idea for Apple:

Create a Bluetooth necklace that listens to make sure its associated prototype / test phone is nearby.

If a tester accidentally walks away from their phone, a pendant on the necklace vibrates to let the wearer know it's not nearby.

The phone could also be checking for the pendant, and start a loud alarm if it gets too far away.
 
kdarling said:
New idea for Apple:

Create a Bluetooth necklace that listens to make sure its associated prototype / test phone is nearby.

If a tester accidentally walks away from their phone, a pendant on the necklace vibrates to let the wearer know it's not nearby.

The phone could also be checking for the pendant, and start a loud alarm if it gets too far away.
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How about Apple place something inside their prototypes and if the phone exits a 1000 meter radius from it's owner it blows up or something? :D
 
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