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Meanwhile, last week’s SCOTUS decision gave unprecedented executive power to the POTUS over all federal agencies.
Just so you know, in an effort to inform, it's really not unprecendented per your claim. It merely returns the law to how it existed to prior to 1935 -- pre-Roosevelt -- where is was well understood that the chief executive could control executive agencies. The "unitary executive" makes a lot of sense from an operational standpoint but I can see the arguments on both sides.
 
There’s something called the three branches of government….
The point is the claim that the EU is a dictatorship. In reality, there is not one single person in the EU who can fire an EUC regulator. In reality, there is now one single person in the US who can fire a federal agency regulator. If it comes to that — and it will as soon as a regulator gets into the POTUS firing line (excuse the punt) — in reality, both chambers will not reach the two thirds majority to override the POTUS. It is only theoretically possible, but practically the POTUS single-handedly controls all federal agencies as of last week.
 
What would be great is if Facebook, alphabet and Apple left the eu. That would be great.
Indeed, that would be great when they no longer pollute the social climate in Europe!
People would stop wasting their precious time and money on absolutely unnecessary things and concentrate on the really important things in life, which are definitely not smartphones and social media...
 
Just so you know, in an effort to inform, it's really not unprecendented per your claim. It merely returns the law to how it existed to prior to 1935 -- pre-Roosevelt -- where is was well understood that the chief executive could control executive agencies. The "unitary executive" makes a lot of sense from an operational standpoint but I can see the arguments on both sides.
thanks, yes, correct, see this now further down in the article i linked: “Trump asked the court to overturn Humphrey's Executor v. United States, a 1935 decision upholding removal restrictions for leaders of multimember administrative agencies”. Recent decision is a step backwards for separation of powers, sadly.
 
Indeed, that would be great when they no longer pollute the social climate in Europe!
People would stop wasting their precious time and money on absolutely unnecessary things and concentrate on the really important things in life, which are definitely not smartphones and social media...
I sincerely hope you are kidding but this attitude might help explain the productivity crisis in the European Union. Getting rid of cellphones and computers in favor of snail mail (or perhaps carrier pigeons) and typewriters is not a good solution.

 
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I agree, I think the DMA has caused more harm or confusion to an average EU customer than brought any tangible benefit. The only possible positive I can think of is what is coming up now – easier pairing and setup for third-party accessories with Apple devices. Otherwise, not much use.
If there is indeed harm, I don’t want to even imagine the chaos, exploitation, and manipulation inflicted by the tech giants if there was no DMA and DSA, i.e. a necessary attempt to regulate digital tech imperialism.
 
Indeed, that would be great when they no longer pollute the social climate in Europe!
Sure. 100% agree. Let the eu develop their own social media platforms, google services replaces and smartphone replacements. I’ll wait about 50 years to see if it happens.
People would stop wasting their precious time and money on absolutely unnecessary things and concentrate on the really important things in life, which are definitely not smartphones and social media...
Sure. And a side benefit would be the excessive regulations would be a thing of the past.
 
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What would be great is if Facebook, alphabet and Apple left the eu. That would be great.
Although I couldn't find any surveys on DMA, I did find this survey on digital sovereignty.
1783539555220.png

 
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The point is the claim that the EU is a dictatorship. In reality, there is not one single person in the EU who can fire an EUC regulator. In reality, there is now one single person in the US who can fire a federal agency regulator. If it comes to that — and it will as soon as a regulator gets into the POTUS firing line (excuse the punt) — in reality, both chambers will not reach the two thirds majority to override the POTUS. It is only theoretically possible, but practically the POTUS single-handedly controls all federal agencies as of last week.
That’s the point. Checks and balances. Whether at any point in time they would be stronger or weaker is not the issue.
 
I sincerely hope you are kidding but this attitude might help explain the productivity crisis in the European Union. Getting rid of cellphones and computers in favor of snail mail (or perhaps carrier pigeons) and typewriters is not a good solution.
You know what? Cellphones and computers existed - and still can exist - without Facebook, Alphabet or even Apple!

[edit] Late corrective hint: Never ever believe any statistics, you haven't falsified yourself! 🤣
 
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The point is the claim that the EU is a dictatorship. In reality, there is not one single person in the EU who can fire an EUC regulator. In reality, there is now one single person in the US who can fire a federal agency regulator. If it comes to that — and it will as soon as a regulator gets into the POTUS firing line (excuse the punt) — in reality, both chambers will not reach the two thirds majority to override the POTUS. It is only theoretically possible, but practically the POTUS single-handedly controls all federal agencies as of last week.
ummmm ....

"Presidential control of federal agencies dates back to the establishment of the executive branch under Article II of the U.S. Constitution in 1789, which grants the President the power to appoint principal officers and requires those officers to report to the chief executive"
 
There’s something called the three branches of government….

For what it's worth, that's not a uniquely American thing. Power in the EU is shared between the Commission (executive), the European Parliament and the European Council (legislature) and independent courts.
 
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Regulations gently don't create competition and stifle innovation. The EU is risky now to investment in because you don't know what the next crippling regulation is going to be and how it may impact your business.
Incorrect. Regulation in monopoly situations such as this (and it OBVIOUSLY is) make space for competition that was otherwise stamped out. It’s no more a crippling regulation than the one that ultimately stopped Internet Explorer being default. Did you complain when the EU broke Internet Explorer’s monopoly? Or Windows Media Player? Of course not, they were stifling competition as Apple is now.
 
Incorrect. Regulation in monopoly situations such as this (and it OBVIOUSLY is) make space for competition that was otherwise stamped out. It’s no more a crippling regulation than the one that ultimately stopped Internet Explorer being default. Did you complain when the EU broke Internet Explorer’s monopoly? Or Windows Media Player? Of course not, they were stifling competition as Apple is now.
The obvious difference being that Microsoft had 95% of the market and Apple has around 30%. Far from an obvious monopoly.
 
The obvious difference being that Microsoft had 95% of the market and Apple has around 30%. Far from an obvious monopoly.
The EU and some of its member states have found Apple guilty of abuse of dominant position on several occasions.
 
The EU and some of its member states have found Apple guilty of abuse of dominant position on several occasions.
And having a dominant position in the EU used to require 40% of the market in question. Which is why the DMA exists in the first place, traditional antitrust doesn’t apply and the EU wanted to force Apple open so they needed to come up with new rules.

Microsoft had 95% of the market in the EU; Apple has 30%. There is no universe where that is the same or should be regulated the same, in contrast to what the poster @BaldiMac was replying to stated.
 
My first action before I waste my virtual breath on a court's decision is always to check if this can be appealed. Most rumor sites either don't bring this up at all or only in a little sentence near the end. This article doesn't even bother, but an appeal is possible.

See you in a few years on this subject.
That’s what Google did *. Took a little longer than a few years. Apple might want to spare themselves the trouble and use the legal fees savings to compensate for the high memory chip costs.

* Back in 2018, Google was handed a record-setting 4.34 billion-euro ($4.9 billion) fine in Europe for abusing its monopoly on Android. The company has spent the intervening years challenging that decision, but the continent’s highest court has put a stop to that. The Court of Justice of the European Union has affirmed the penalty, meaning Google is out of options.
 
There's no point really. It's not an independent court like the us supreme court.
Really? 27 countries nominate the judges for a 6 year term. Compared to 1 president who nominates SCOTUS judges for lifetime …

Excerpt:
The 54 judges of the EU General court are appointed by the member states, 2 per state. Each Member State nominates its own Judges. There are no EU rules as to how a Judge must be chosen and each Member State can follow its own procedure. However, the person chosen must be independent and be qualified to hold high judicial office. …
… The General Court’s ruling on EU law can be subject to review by the Court of Justice where it finds that the decision of the General Court affects the unity or consistency of EU law. Otherwise it is final and binding.
 
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Incorrect. Regulation in monopoly situations such as this (and it OBVIOUSLY is)
No it’s not. It’s not a monopoly anywhere.
make space for competition that was otherwise stamped out.
No. It’s taking apples assets and giving them away. That’s not making space for competition.
It’s no more a crippling regulation than the one that ultimately stopped Internet Explorer being default.
It is actually.
Did you complain when the EU broke Internet Explorer’s monopoly?
Yes. But MS was stupid.
Or Windows Media Player? Of course not, they were stifling competition as Apple is now.
Apple is not stifling competition. There is an App Store that sells billions every year that says so.
 
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😂 That court is as independent as the Russian supreme court.
“That court” is not clear. Judges for both US and Russian supreme courts are nominated by the country‘s president; Russian judges do not serve lifetime but until retirement age, 70. So you must be referring to the US Supreme Court.
 
The General Court is Europe's second-highest court. So yes, it means that this court's ruling can be appealed to the Court of Justice of the European Union which is Europe's highest court.
You're coming across as very condescending in a "well duh" way.

The article we're discussing here is titled "Apple Loses EU Fight Over App Store Gatekeeper Label" and not "Apple Loses [...] at Second-Highest EU Court". Additionally, the first sentence of the article mentions "Europe's top court ".

It's not common knowledge everywhere in the world under which circumstances an appeal is possible in EU courts. Also, lesser mortals may be forgiven to think that "top court" means that there is no appeal and it's all over. That phrasing suggests that the person who posted the article here thought that as well.
Switcher did not come across as condescending to me. You mentioned the subject of appeal in your original post. He simply addresses it. The problem is MR’s wording “top court” as you rightly point to. The General Court is a constituent court of the Court of Justice of the EU, so “top” is ambiguous. With MR on controversial topics, I usually follow their reference link. In this case, when you go to Reuters, you’ll see “Apple can appeal on matters of law to the Court of Justice of the European Union, Europe's ‌highest.”
 
I’m ready for Apple to just pull out of the EU and see who flinches first.
Apple would be first to flinch and not follow through because drawing on a region of 450 million makes business still too profitable. Profit first, Privacy second. Plus, if they indeed pulled out, there would be another significant price hike on Macs, iPads, and iPhones worldwide … except in the EU, of course.
 
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The EU and some of its member states have found Apple guilty of abuse of dominant position on several occasions.
How does that dispute what I said? Are you arguing that there's not a significant difference between 95% of a market and 30% of a market from antitrust perspective? Do you think 30% of the market is an obvious monopoly as the poster that I responded to claimed?

Using findings under the DMA to justify the DMA is circular reasoning.

For the record, I think regulation is important and helpful. But there are good regulations and bad regulations. The DMA contains lots of bad regulations. Regulate Apple's commission. Regulate what app categories they have to accept. Stop with forcing engineering decisions on them. Stop trying to force third-party app stores that failed across 70% of the market for over a decade.
 
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Really? 27 countries nominate the judges for a 6 year term. Compared to 1 president who nominates SCOTUS judges for lifetime …

Excerpt:
The 54 judges of the EU General court are appointed by the member states, 2 per state. Each Member State nominates its own Judges. There are no EU rules as to how a Judge must be chosen and each Member State can follow its own procedure. However, the person chosen must be independent and be qualified to hold high judicial office. …
… The General Court’s ruling on EU law can be subject to review by the Court of Justice where it finds that the decision of the General Court affects the unity or consistency of EU law. Otherwise it is final and binding.
And has to be approved by both houses.
 
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