Apple Losing It's Desktop Edge?

Discussion in 'iMac' started by shady28, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. shady28 macrumors member

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    #1
    Call it troll bait if you want, but I think this WWDC showed that Apple is losing the edge on the desktop.

    I'm not really talking about the Mac Pro - the lack of 'CPU' upgrades really is less their fault and more to do with Intel I believe. Take a look at a Dell Precision T7500 and compare to the Mac Pro; they're almost identical. Only real complaint here is - no Thunderbolt, no USB 3.

    On to the real desktop breadwinner, the iMac.

    The 2011 iMac cam out on May 3, 2011. That was 13 months ago.

    Before this, iMacs were released on July 27 2010, October 2009, etc. Most of the releases were minor speed bumps on existing hardware, with a smattering of major shifts (screen size changes, plastic to aluminum, etc).

    So lets be straight, I don't care about Ivy Bridge and really neither should most iMac users. The performance difference is barely even incremental - definitely something most will never ever notice, even under heavy use situations.

    As far as 'Retina Display' - that's a $1500 fad for the well heeled and not useful except to photoshop pro's. With a 27" iMac, the GPU is overwhelmed with the existing display as it is, retina would require a unique and probably even more expensive GPU.

    What does matter are things like USB 3.0, Faster GPUs, bigger hard drives, and more / faster RAM.

    What I am really saying here is that, as far as *any* category of desktop system - Apple is losing its edge. Mac Pro, iMac, and Mac Mini have all been passed over.

    Most of the mobile stuff has been updated in the last 6 months.

    This isn't to say they aren't competitive now - they are - but they used to be more than competitive. They used to be better than everyone else. Maybe this is the trough for them and something special is coming - but I suspect their attention is truly elsewhere, and the desktop Mac is a dinosaur in their eyes.

    And I think that is where they are going to fail; the desktop is not dead. And if you don't have a top notch desktop, ultimately nobody is going to want your laptop because it will be running a different OS than your desktop...
     
  2. philipma1957, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012

    philipma1957 macrumors 603

    philipma1957

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    #2
    No they are not losing it. They want to abandon it and force mac users to become mobile product users. where are the retina displays. they are on not ethernet products only.

    this is all a move to push us into the cloud.

    A mac pro or an iMac (with a nas) can be used as a home network hub with 3 or 4 minis in an hard wired ethernet home. this type of set up can allow a user to not use any apple rental products. How many commercials have you seen of people watching a movie on an iPad or a smart phone.

    I have seen plenty. there is not that much money for apple if you don't use a wireless cloud dependent device.
    Most of apple buyers surf the net watch a movie play music etc.

    you can do much of this with a mac mini or two. if you record shows down load music you need some storage. your gear does not need many upgrades.. (ie no money for apple) but if you get sucked into the

    cloud endless funds for apple. this is all about business. even micro soft wants to shift to this windows 8 will be their first move.


    Here is the math. an imac hard wired to a pegasus r6 run about 3500. you get over 14tb of storage.


    a mac mini and a pegasus r6 run about 2200. add in a 50 inch led and you are at the same 3500.

    first setup is for the apartment person second is for the home owner. either setup lets you have no cloud fees. and a nice viewing screen. either setup allows you to have many movies and songs in your hands. a 2011 imac or a 2011 mini could run this setup for 3 to 5 years. so how does apple make money after you do the setup?

    My uncle had a piano and organ business in the 60' and 70's. famous product a big franchise.

    he went bust why? he sold too many products that lasted to long. the profits were geared to sales of gear .

    not repairs or lessons. Apple has seen that the 2011 iMac and the 2011 mac mini's will last and people will not buy so quickly.

    thus the ipad smart phone cloud push.

    i am sure that many people will say the new 2012 macbook pro picture is unreal. To me meh it is too small. I like a big screen setup. much of my internet is done on a 46 inch sony led I like it.

    I have owned a 27 inch Imac and for my use the sony is better.
     
  3. Icaras macrumors 603

    Icaras

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    #3
    Last time I checked, every Mac ran OS X.
     
  4. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #4
    It is foolish to make sweeping assumptions about Apple, based on the lack of an update on your favorite product on a particular day. WWDC was not the only time Apple will ever update products.

    All this bellyaching about the lack of an iMac or Mac Pro update yesterday only proves that those complaining don't understand how businesses need to prioritize and focus on what makes the biggest impact to their bottom line. The complainers are only thinking of what they want, not what the rest of the world or Apple needs or wants. It is not Apple's responsibility to cater to every whim of every consumer. It is their responsibility to remain profitable, which they're obviously doing well. If they lose some desktop business by focusing first on those products that contribute much more to the bottom line, it's a small loss, and a wise business decision.
     
  5. shady28 thread starter macrumors member

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    #5
    Point was, most people do want a desktop (IMO).

    If your desktop sucks, people will buy someone else's. If you're Apple, people will buy <insert major PC mfr here>.

    Which means they won't buy the mobile product you're all focused on, which means you blow out your user base.
     
  6. philipma1957 macrumors 603

    philipma1957

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    #6
    you got it and the mobile gear will do better since the money is there.
     
  7. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #7
    Sales statistics prove that is false.
     
  8. shady28 thread starter macrumors member

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    #8

    Ultimately this train of logic leads to Apple being a phone and tablet vendor.
     
  9. Winni macrumors 68030

    Winni

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    Location:
    Germany.
    #9
    In the catalog, maybe. I know people who bought Apple hardware only to install Window as their ONLY operating system on it. They didn't care for OS X and had no need for it because all their software is Windows-based.
     
  10. Buffsteria macrumors regular

    Buffsteria

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    #10
    Then they'll die as a brand, end of story.
     
  11. Winni macrumors 68030

    Winni

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    #11
    I hate to tell you this, but this is exactly where the journey is going.
     
  12. Icaras macrumors 603

    Icaras

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    #12
    As GGJStudios points out, you are very wrong. Check statistics.
     
  13. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #13
    If that's where their future profits lie, they'd be foolish to do otherwise.
    LOL. Yeah, they're clearly dying, with $100 billion in cash, explosive growth, record profitability, and soaring stock prices, all with desktop sales contributing less than 4% to the bottom line. If you think the Apple brand depends on desktop computers, you clearly don't understand Apple or the industry.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Buffsteria macrumors regular

    Buffsteria

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    #14
    They're making "the Airwalk Mistake".

    Actually I'm not alone in making the comparison.
    http://www.technobuffalo.com/technobuffalo/opinion/keep-the-pros-happy-apple/
     
  15. Apple... macrumors 68020

    Apple...

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    #15
    Just wondering: did you read today's article? They still care, they just weren't ready at WWDC.
     
  16. highlights macrumors newbie

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    Jan 31, 2005
    #16
    I wonder how many households have desktops though in addition to individuals having laptops. I don't want one or the other, I want BOTH! (or a desktop and an iPad, if not a laptop).
     
  17. shady28 thread starter macrumors member

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    #17
    So back in the late 80s / early 90s, there was this company called DEC that made VAX mainframes. Word was they were crushing IBM.
     
  18. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #18
    No, they're not:
    Despite what the author of the article said, that isn't the case with Apple. There is no such group that is a major influencer of Apple's customer base. The iPhone, iPod, iPad and iTunes success has dispersed their customer base in such a way that there is no way desktop users can significantly influence. If anything, iPhone users are the "tail that wags the dog". iPhone success has brought new Mac customers, far more than the other way around.
    And your point is? That has nothing to do with Apple's business model.
    It doesn't matter to Apple what people own, since that doesn't contribute to sales. It matters what they buy, and they're buying twice as many notebooks as desktops, and far greater numbers of other devices.
     
  19. iMacFarlane macrumors 65816

    iMacFarlane

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    #19
    WWDC is for developers!

    Mega-dittos to all the comments about WWDC not being a hardware event, but a software one. The whole point is to provide demonstrations and educational venues for group and individual learning of iOS and OS X programming, techniques, and technologies, old and new. All those devs spent $1500 cash for admission and ponied up who knows how much in travel costs to get there for the event, so they could become better and more 'in-the-know' for coding Apple hardware products. So after the week is over, they will all go home or back to their offices, and take those new skills and some fresh ideas, sit down, crack their knuckles, and fire up Xcode to get some programming done.

    Of course, the programming for apps to run on all these recently updated iPhones, iPads, and laptops can only be done on their 400+ day old iMacs or 600+ day old Mac Pros.

    Apple can't let their desktops die, it would kill the entire App ecosystem from the bottom up.
     
  20. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #20
    That's not true. App programming can just as easily be done on a MBP, MBA or even a Mac mini. Programming is not resource-intensive.
     
  21. racher macrumors member

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    Seattle, WA
    #21
    Apple's desktop strategy and FCP X

    Sorry for the long post, but I had to vent after reading so many posts about the iMac update!

    I'm a corporate videographer and use many Apple products, including a MBP, iPad and iPhone. I believe we can see where Apple's headed in the desktop world by looking closely at their update to Final Cut Pro (version "X"), which has been received poorly by many professionals in my field. However, I think many folks are unnecessarily worried.

    I switched from the PC world to the Mac about 2 years ago. Initially, I switched because so many folks in the pro video world were using Final Cut Pro 7, and I wanted to stay "compatible" with my piers. After using my new MBP, however, I fell in love with the interface and solidity of the Apple platform. I can't imagine switching back to the PC now, which just seems clunky by comparison, regardless of any specific hardware features offered by PC vendors. Apple's got me hooked now, so now I troll this forum in search of any news on updated iMacs (which I'm hoping to add to my video gear arsenal)!

    When FCP X was introduced, I was initially quite excited. In the pro video world, you can't just rely on yesterday's software, as new cameras and codecs are constantly being introduced which depend upon updated software to edit. So I bought the new FCP (which was much cheaper than FCP 7) and gave it a whirl. I also watched several videos touting the advantages of FCP X posted by 3rd party reviewers. It was clear that Apple was trying to do something different here: make the process of editing simpler and more streamlined. They were trying to reinvent the editing paradigm, which honestly hasn't changed in the last 15 years+. Unfortunately, they left out some features that many pros depend upon, and the backlash started to rumble. "Apple is ignoring their professional users" and "Apple is only concerned with mobile devices" was the cry.

    Despite the outcry, I tried to use FCP X on several projects to evaluate it's true merit. To some degree, I liked the new editing paradigm they were introducing. However, I still thought in terms of the classic editing process that I was accustomed to and eventually decided to look elsewhere (Adobe Premiere Pro) for my editing needs. Ironically, had Apple introduced FCP X before I switched from the PC to Mac, I probably wouldn't have made the switch at all!

    Since my FCP X trial run, Apple has updated it's editing software to include most, if not all, of the features that professionals were demanding. Regardless, the fact remains that if you want to edit with FCP X, you need to embrace Apple's new editing paradigm, which is unique in the industry. Just like Apple did with the introduction of the iPhone and the iPad, they wanted to create a product that would change they way people thought about a specific technology, in this case video editing. Unfortunately for Apple, FCP X hasn't quite caught on as of yet.

    Apple's success has depended largely on breaking new ground in areas of technology otherwise considered stagnant. That's what everyone's come to expect from Apple, whether they admit it or not. And of course, when something sells well, Apple is going to pursue that technology further. The iPhone, for instance, has changed the mobile device landscape permanently (did the term "mobile device" even exist before the iPhone?), and that technology now represents the majority of their revenue. I'm also sure that Apple still hopes for FCP X to have an impact on the pro video field. They key is, they're a patient company. They make a move and they stick by it. Occasionally, their gamble turns sour (Newton anyone?). But they take the risk and move forward, waiting to see if their vision of technology is embraced by the general populace. If it is, they have the advantage of being first to the market with new tech, and their competition is saddled with the burden of having to rethink their strategy just to stay in the game.

    At WWDC, Apple introduced the first "retina display" MBPs, which was again another "first" for the industry. If their gamble pays off the way I believe they'd like it to, such displays will become standard in the laptop world and Apple again will be leading the pack. And while high-res screen laptops seem cool, Apple knows that the desktop isn't going away anytime soon. In my field alone, powerful desktop computers are a necessity for rendering motion graphics, 3D animation, etc. Before Apple would ditch all of their desktop customers, they would first want to reinvent the desktop computing paradigm. They've started to do that with the iPad, but so far that tool has been used mostly by everyday consumers, as opposed to professional users. The pro users aren't going away, and Apple knows that.

    Based on the recent post by David Pogue, I believe Apple is already at work on their next attempt to "reinvent" a technological paradigm in the arena of desktop computers. And who knows what changes may be in store for us. I still think the integration of touch technology and the desktop computer has yet to be realized, and I'm sure that Apple is thinking about that too. As long as computing power advances with faster hardware, there will always be a need for such tools, especially in a field like mine. I personally would love to interface with a powerful computer to edit my videos using touch technology (insert your Leap Motion/Windows 8 comments here). In the future, we may all consider the mouse an antiquated tool as our fingers dart around on our touch-sensative "desktops" devices!

    As I mentioned before, Apple is a patient company that attempts to introduce new technology paradigms as a method of creating new markets and staying on top of those markets. Apple also knows that such new technologies often replace older tech previously considered untouchable. For instance, the iPod was once a cash cow for Apple, but it now represents a tiny fraction of Apple's revenue now that consumers rely on their iPhone to listen to music. Regardless of this transition, Apple still manufactures the iPod for those who want them. The same will go for the desktop computer. Apple will patiently introduce new desktop paradigms and see who bites, while still offering classic desktop technology because that demand isn't going away. Eventually, I believe we will truly be "wowed" by a new desktop computing technology in the future. In the meantime, unfortunately, we have to be patient while that transition takes place.

    -racher

    P.S. I want a new 2012 Ivy Bridge iMac with USB 3.0 NOW! :)
     
  22. theSeb macrumors 604

    theSeb

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    #22
    Yes , I am checking.

    Apple said it sold 2.8 million notebooks and nearly 1.2 million desktops.

    The desktop business is hardly a drop in the ocean for Apple. The model that makes up the majority of the notebooks sold was the 13" MBP.

    ----------

    Hate to correct you, but it definitely can be. If you're just starting, then sure, you can use a 2009 13" MBP to write your hello world apps.

    But when you're writing big boy software to actually make money, software development is very intensive. RAM and CPU are hugely important. Any one that is serious will also be a running a continuous integration build server in the background running automated tests. If you don't have a separate computer to do this on, then it will be a strain on your primary machine.

    If you're writing games, then there is also the graphics side of things.

    Development IDEs are also quite resource hungry even if you're only editing source code.
     
  23. lannisters4life macrumors 6502

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    #23
    I love desktops, but sorry brother, notebook sales do unsavoury things in the dark to desktop sales.
     
  24. borostef macrumors 6502

    borostef

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    #24

    I do see your point, and you are probably right...
    But why do you think that anyones priority should be the well-being of Apple?
    Let's face it, they have more than enough cash, and they are not going anywhere anytime soon...
    I love Apple desktops, and use them as a tool for my work, if they stop providing those tools I will have to look elsewhere... That is my priority, not the Apple stock. (I don't own any)
    All I am saying, I wasn't drawn to Apple products by all the iThings (however great they are) and those things alone won't make me stay a loyal customer.
    Having said that, I do believe that all desktop lines will be updated at some point... Fingers crossed
     
  25. iMacFarlane macrumors 65816

    iMacFarlane

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    #25
    Yeah, I thought about this after I posted. The Mac mini doesn't seem positioned to replace the iMac or Mac Pro lines anytime soon, so I didn't consider it, and it's 300+ days old as well.

    As far as programming on an Air or MacBook Pro, my 40+ year old eyes aren't going to find any comfort in that 11-15" screen, and the resolutions are so low, gross amounts of scrolling would be needed in interface builder and in the simulators.

    So, I concede that programming can be done on a laptop, but I would contest 'easily'.
     

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