Apple Losing Out to Microsoft and Google in U.S. Classrooms

[Rocketman]

Yeah, oh the humanity, all those taxes you have to pay so kids can go to school. How can our country be so unfair!

The kids were going to school before the taxes were applied to it. What changed is the schools were "professionalized and unionized" and recently federalized. The funding mechanism changed and the outcomes dropped substantially. That is objective not political. I am not sure what the solution is, but an improvement in outcomes would be welcome by many, especially in poor and minority neighbourhoods.

One thing is 100% clear. Gradually increasing tax revenue over time has not been the solution to a real problem. Some economists and sociologists consider education the #1 issue there is, and over time.

 

[Stella]

"Schools pay zero rent, get free supplies from landowners via property taxes, especially if you don't have kids in schools".


You don't want to invest in your country's future? You don't want universal education, but only for those who can afford it? Free universal education is Progress.

You enjoyed free education in your country - but don't want newer generations to enjoy the same?

The vast majority of school budgets are for union negotiated labor contracts including benefits and pensions vastly more generous than most private sector jobs. Schools pay zero rent, get free supplies from landowners via property taxes, especially if you don't have kids in schools. For the longest time schools had Apple II computers, and that was when they were quite expensive. Now they buy Chinese made confusers with a FREE OS installed.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/03/high-school-makes-24-million-snap-ipo/

 

[ntlman]

Apple is letting a whole generation of kids grow up with non-Apple devices as their primary computer experience. This idea that they will be waiting for them with super Macs at some point in the future to replace their Chromebooks is wishful thinking. They blew it with the e market and are never getting it back.

 

[oldmacs]

Of course they are.

Apple have priced themselves out of the market.

iPads are fairly hopeless as shared devices, especially if you want to use a cross platform service like the G suite. This is where chrome books excel.
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If Apple makes an educational version of iPad (ePad?) with built-in keyboard using A7 processor (first generation 64-bit processor on iPad mini 2 and iPhone 5s) for $299, many schools will gladly switch from Chromebook.

No, its more than that. Apple's lack of flexibility is hopeless. They need to be more open with device management, and services. Your described device would still be a terrible shared device. Allow better network sign in capabilities (e.g. into a google account or something) and then we might be talking.

I love iPads but they're terrible shared classroom devices and horrible to manage.
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It's troubling that these are the things that are starting to dominate schools. You want a kid to function in the real world someday... and the real world is dominated by Windows, Office, and a host of actual programs. Not websites. There's cloud solutions in each space, but they don't hold a candle to the full fledged programs. SAP and Oracle don't need to worry much about WorkDay and Wall Street Systems (and the guys that made Oracle make Workday)... they simply aren't as capable. We should want to provide our children with a knowledge base that provides the broadest foundation for the future... instead we're giving them an incredibly narrow one, because people are cheap.

And kids on iPads is not going to help this. I see an iPad as even less of a real world tool than a Chromebook is

It is possible to do both. Many schools have sets of Macs still, but for day to day work, Chromebook's are great as they're inexpensive, easy to manage - especially when you want to use a universal platform like google.

 

[ntlman]

oldmacs, you are absolutely correct.

I bought the iPad 3, and then an iPad mini. The mini is from 2014 and completely useless, due to the constraints the various iOS updates have done to it.

I was thinking about replacing it with a newer iPad "Pro", but instead bought an ASUS Chromebook c302 flip. It has a touchscreen, it has a keyboard and trackpad, it runs all the stuff from my iTunes library, is expandable, and is HALF THE FREAKING PRICE OF THE ENTRY LEVEL IPAD PRO. And this is one of the more expensive Chromebooks! And now I just found out I can run Apple Remote desktop on it with little issue.

If Apple was smart, they would have been using iPhone profits this whole time to subsidize iPad pricing to really capture the market. Instead, the iPad is doomed.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/269915/global-apple-ipad-sales-since-q3-2010/

 

[oldmacs]

oldmacs, you are absolutely correct.

I bought the iPad 3, and then an iPad mini. The mini is from 2014 and completely useless, due to the constraints the various iOS updates have done to it.

I was thinking about replacing it with a newer iPad "Pro", but instead bought an ASUS Chromebook c302 flip. It has a touchscreen, it has a keyboard and trackpad, it runs all the stuff from my iTunes library, is expandable, and is HALF THE FREAKING PRICE OF THE ENTRY LEVEL IPAD PRO. And this is one of the more expensive Chromebooks! And now I just found out I can run Apple Remote desktop on it with little issue.

If Apple was smart, they would have been using iPhone profits this whole time to subsidize iPad pricing to really capture the market. Instead, the iPad is doomed.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/269915/global-apple-ipad-sales-since-q3-2010/

Yep - I get driven crazy by iOS updates and the inability of Apple to offer tools for organisations to control this. I have kids updating iPads before I've tested that everything is working on and there are times where I have to hold off on updates. Going around to over 100 iPads to delete the update every day is tedious beyond belief. Not an issue at all with Chromebook's. I will say that the physical build of some Chormebooks is poor, but our 2014 Chromebook's are running a lot better than double the price iPad 2's and iPad 4's purchased in 2014.

Apple has shot themselves in the foot for uni students as well. MacBooks which are the 'computer for the student' are WAY too expensive for uni students now. My cousin (uni student) who has been using Macs for years has issues with her 2011 MacBook Pro and will not be able to afford a new one if this one goes west.

 

[jujufreeze]

Tim Cook strikes again. At least he had the werewithal to invest $1 billion in Chinese hail-riding service Didi Chuxing.

 

[clg1]

It is not just chromebooks that apple is competing against it is the whole google cloud environment. My kids are totally sucked into googles offerings through schools. They have never used MS office but Docs is normal to them and they are used to collaborating remotely with other kids to work on things. The hardware is just a screen, camera, touch pad and keyboard to access the cloud. The phone gets them there too.

Once they get used to that environment a chromebook is just fine. At my daughters primary school they used to have a dedicated room filled with Macs. They converted it into a classroom a few years ago and now every classroom is loaded up with chromebooks.

We now have 4 chromebooks at home, an Imac and a PC. In the last year I have only booted something other than a chromebook once as I needed to run a specialised piece of software. It does everything I need including basic photo editing, video, etc. They are dirt cheap, boot almost instantly and are only getting better. I think people underestimated chromebooks for a while and that is going be painful for those trying to catch up as people understand this is the future.

 

[phrehdd]

So much has changed in both the business world and schools.

Many teaching tools don't require anything more than a device that can handle web pages efficiently as that is the most common interface required. More powerful devices should handle real time (classroom meetings). Apple for what it offers is an expensive route and it took companies like Microsoft to help secure them as Apple failed in this venue.

It is a shame that Apple dulled its blade with hardware/software choices for schools and yet remained expensive and then broke its trust with the "pro" community as many of its Pro apps or apps with a strong following were betrayed with slow upgrades or being taken off the market entirely.

While I would like Apple to return to its days of why people knew Apple was the best choice, it isn't going to happen as that Apple company died a few years ago. Meanwhile, Microsoft re-invented part of itself, Google keeps maturing and morphing (even with its own setbacks and mistakes) and Apple just now "JUST TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL."

 

[Swift]

So, they've lost the education market. A browser OS like Google? Ho-hum. I wonder how many kids are delirious over what a chromebook can do, or what they can do with a chromebook? It's much cheaper by nature, and the teachers like it because they can lock them down, know everything each student is up to, etc. They win that market.

 

[balconycollapse]

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[joy.757]

Well, MS has been creating some really cool products….

 

[vvswarup]

Unless Apple sells devices at a price point that's affordable to schools or it releases a must-have feature that schools think is worth the extra money, Apple will continue to lose out.

 

[oldmacs]

My kids had carts of Macbooks to check out in the grade school and now take it home Chromebooks in middle school.

They mostly just do various piddly assignments in Google Classroom with Docs and Drive.

Otherwise the teachers, exasperated and tired of the Chromebooks (as they have shared in conferences / PTA), battle to command attention and teach because they are essentially a TV and personalized radio station via YouTube, gaming machine and a chat room for the entire school. "Oh no not my kid though." Yes your kid my kid that other kid.

The kids are trying to multitask entertainment, socializing online and partially listening to the teacher. For any small amount of actual schoolwork accomplished they have to reward themselves with something "fun" which usually goes down a bunny trail to off task. Imagine even the studious kids trying to focus while table mates are laughing at some video. They are absolutely not able to resist this temptation (adults barely can and don't either).

They are given these "educational devices" by the district naively thinking they are going to spontaneously ignite a love of learning in the kids that would cause them to read medical journals and teach themselves Calculus or how to pen a sonnet. Like someone that gets their kid a screaming tower and is disappointed to find they would rather play games than become a software savant. Or buys a TV and are disappointed to find no one wants to watch educational programming ahead of reality tv.

Devices in the classroom don't improve education without a lot of intervention. Just tossed to a crowd of kids they will go to the lowest common denominator of how they use them unless guided (their school -- it's porn and virtual bullying). How can a teacher guide 30 kids at once while they can't see their screens? They can't. But the schools keep telling themselves these are the challenges of the digital age and they'll figure it out somehow. Plus that one kids family is poor and this computer is going to save them. Really? From what?

I think our education system is missing the point totally by throwing computers at the education problem. Especially ones like ChromeOS where the paradigm is -- a bunch of little bean counters that can use HTML 5 based cloud document storage and produce copy and pasted information from online. That learn to not be able to learn without some pacifier of technology in hand to distract them from learning. "Whoa this is tough I need a YouTube break!"

We want kids that reach for a device to work on their craft and hone their skill and be creative once they figure out what that will be. But they can't figure that out if their always distracted in school even nowadays by a screens allure. In the meantime reduce the temptation and give them focused tasks to do on simple devices like an iPad where they can stay on task. Then put them on the cart and get back to letting the teachers do their job and not have to battle YouTube, web games, chat room drama etc. Then let the kids daydream, ponder big ideas and feel their feelings without a digital crutch because the output of that is more valuable than anything else for their rest of their life.

I agree with you in general about devices in the classroom (that schools love throwing money and technology without actually educating and designing systems that will actually improve education instead of just 'looking good'. However I think this applies to every device, iPads possibly even more so than Chromebooks.

I find Chromebooks fair easier to manage in general than iPads and find that students use them for work more than they use other devices.
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So, they've lost the education market. A browser OS like Google? Ho-hum. I wonder how many kids are delirious over what a chromebook can do, or what they can do with a chromebook? It's much cheaper by nature, and the teachers like it because they can lock them down, know everything each student is up to, etc. They win that market.

Kids where I work will willingly choose a Chromebook over the iPads available to them.

 

[dk001]

Yeah, my niece's school dumped their Macs and now loans students Chromebooks. From the way she describes it her use of her notebook is far beyond what Cook describes as a "test machine." Like all of Apple's markets Cook doesn't understand this one either.

Nail on the head.
Use is so seriously misunderstood/ignored in situations like this. Here is a prime example it is more than just the tech. https://www.wired.com/2015/05/los-angeles-edtech/

 

[Solomani]

Good. This is a much needed kick in the butt for Apple.

 

[H2SO4]

Right, because you can do so much more with ChromeOS, right? Good thing you aren't the one actually making student recommendations.

This has almost entirely to do with cost. Why buy an iPad when you can get $150 disposable Chromebooks? I'd bet a large percentage of school districts are looking at that first.

So the title of the article is, “Apple Losing Out to Microsoft and Google in U.S. Classrooms”, that limits you to Chrome right?

 

[MH01]

Apple used to dominate with in education. They just neglected it for too long like they're doing with most of their hardware. Lag of focus and no certain future is the main reason for companies or institutions to not invest.
When was the last time iBooks Author got an update? Most things Apple introduces going the same route as HyperCard. Sad and stupid.

View attachment 690862
The above picture goes down in history and will never happen again.

So true. Apple have effectively priced themselves out of education . Rich kids will still own them, not that they care about the functionality, just to show off .
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Right, because you can do so much more with ChromeOS, right? Good thing you aren't the one actually making student recommendations.

This has almost entirely to do with cost. Why buy an iPad when you can get $150 disposable Chromebooks? I'd bet a large percentage of school districts are looking at that first.

The apple offering is also disposable, though costs much more. The device itself is just s tool, and in this case a chrome book can provide the same access to educational material as an iPad. If prefer 2 chromebooks for 2 kids than one iPad for 2 kids to share. Education is not for the rich only ... here is where apple's greed shines through and why TC is just a political troll

 

[JimmyJimmyYam]

Well, as much as I like the product, it is way too expensive for this market sector.

 

[Parasprite]

Actually, Apple computers used to last much longer than PCs, hence, the TCO was quite favorable for the Mac. In the everything-soldered no-upgrades era, that is no longer true though.

I miss those days like crazy. Apple keeps giving me less and less reasons to stick with them...

 

[cdmoore74]

Bottom line is that schools don't have the budget and Apple are not willing to discount them. Or the discount is so pathetic Chrome looks like the better option.

Got to give credit where credit is due. Good job Google.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Don't worry, folks! Timmy's got some amazing new educational products coming in his pipeline! Magical things that will create incredible, life-changing experiences. You can bank on it! ;-)

 

[9081094]

Who's responsible for the education unit at Apple anyway? They should have seen this coming long time before we even noticed. By neclecting the education and not responding to market changes, they should fire the person responsible for education at Apple. Students growing up with chrome books and windows will never turn to Apple users in the future.

 

[MacBH928]

You're pretty much right.

The only saving grace is you can use Office.com on them, and still get a more functional set of programs than what Google Docs offers.

It's troubling that these are the things that are starting to dominate schools. You want a kid to function in the real world someday... and the real world is dominated by Windows, Office, and a host of actual programs. Not websites. There's cloud solutions in each space, but they don't hold a candle to the full fledged programs. SAP and Oracle don't need to worry much about WorkDay and Wall Street Systems (and the guys that made Oracle make Workday)... they simply aren't as capable. We should want to provide our children with a knowledge base that provides the broadest foundation for the future... instead we're giving them an incredibly narrow one, because people are cheap.

In the 80s and the 90s there were computers at schools because it was expected that kids don't own their own computer at home so the one at school teaches them typing, making websites, using office...
Now kids have Chrome browser in the phones they carry in their pockets, they don't need to get classes on using a browser at school.
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As a rule - no. Photoshop, Programming, and advanced Office usage is pretty much High School and University level. And even then; you only do that stuff in specialised courses that most students don't take.

Advanced Office usage also doesn't apply - the way you use office programs in a workplace simply doesn't correlate with how and what for you use them for in school. Furthermore, if you are in academia you're using LaTeX anyway.

So you are saying the schools are better off without computers?
We are talking about students using computers for learning, not macOS for school offices

 

[9081094]

Fire the person responsible for the education part at Apple. Get someone who's eager to listen to teachers and students for their needs and learn to teach Apple management that for the long term it's sometimes justified to take less profits but to give your users the best experience for their needs. As long as Apple isn't listening and only is dictating in what they think it's best, focusing on profits instead of customers, they'll lose no matter what they do