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Apple Lowers Prices on PowerBooks...12" and 15"
- Thread starter jholzner
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Re: I just don't see the 970 in the Powerbook at this time.
This isnt nessecarly what people think. It could very well be a 970 revision power book coming out.
Remember how quiet it was about the 12" and 17" notebooks?
Everyone said no revisions......only Arn found out less than 12 hours before release.
1) Thats a very tight-lipped supply chain
2) Shows big products come with big surprises
With the cost of the 970 30% less than the G4....with the obvious speed advantage, and the fact that the 970 1.2GHz hasnt appeared in desktop specs, I would wager that the 17" and 15" will probably have the 970....infact these two laptops could probably share the same logic board. The 12" will probably keep the G4 and move to 1GHz if they are able to sqeeze it in.
To everyone claiming the chipsets would be more expensive, and the ram unbearable for a laptop. WTF are you smoking? The powerbooks already have DDR ram. You can buy 256MB DDR modules now days for under $30 (PriceWatch).
The chipsets? Other than R&D will cost no more than current chipsets. Infact, that R&D money has to be spent sometime, so why not now?
Chipset & RAM price issues are non-issues. The question is whether or not Apple is ready, and I would have to say the following:
1) It appeared Apple hit delays with the 15" earlier in the year when it was expected.
2) Apple never released it....and wouldnt release a consumer machine 5 months later..by then its obsolete..what we are going to see is a redesigned 15" model that never was.
This isnt nessecarly what people think. It could very well be a 970 revision power book coming out.
Remember how quiet it was about the 12" and 17" notebooks?
Everyone said no revisions......only Arn found out less than 12 hours before release.
1) Thats a very tight-lipped supply chain
2) Shows big products come with big surprises
With the cost of the 970 30% less than the G4....with the obvious speed advantage, and the fact that the 970 1.2GHz hasnt appeared in desktop specs, I would wager that the 17" and 15" will probably have the 970....infact these two laptops could probably share the same logic board. The 12" will probably keep the G4 and move to 1GHz if they are able to sqeeze it in.
To everyone claiming the chipsets would be more expensive, and the ram unbearable for a laptop. WTF are you smoking? The powerbooks already have DDR ram. You can buy 256MB DDR modules now days for under $30 (PriceWatch).
The chipsets? Other than R&D will cost no more than current chipsets. Infact, that R&D money has to be spent sometime, so why not now?
Chipset & RAM price issues are non-issues. The question is whether or not Apple is ready, and I would have to say the following:
1) It appeared Apple hit delays with the 15" earlier in the year when it was expected.
2) Apple never released it....and wouldnt release a consumer machine 5 months later..by then its obsolete..what we are going to see is a redesigned 15" model that never was.
"Nothing?" So, you would consider that Apple's current line is not confusing? You can't be reading the torrent of comments about this. To streamline at lower cost is not in Apple's interest? Tell that to Apple's engineers and Fred Anderson.
One supplier: not the best option is it? But Moto may no longer be be in the picture and that may be reality. It could be worse. Apple could have no supplier. They have come awfully close to this before.
As for Dell et al., as I already said in the prior post- not sure why you didn't see it- there seems to be less of an issue with multiple processor types in the Wintel buyers mind. From their comments they look for speed and lower price, not something that Apple can tout easily: and again, post after post in these fora and elsewhere from Wintel users say this.
Apple has to address these issues if they wish to make switching a major reality. Continuing the status quo (or as you have implied, making it worse by adding to the already confused mix), cannot possibly help Apple make its case to would be switchers.
Oh, and I am certainly not straining to see the 970 out next week. I have all the computers I need. I just want to see Apple get out of its miserable deal with Moto, get chips that help with the MHz myth, decrease the confusion in the product line and start seeing a rising graph of sales.
Originally posted by Panther
Probably just means the 15" is coming, but they couldn't discount it by itself because their'd be only $200 between the 12 and 15"...
On the other hand, that doesn't make much sense... If they were only $200 apart, that might make potential 12" customers consider the 15" instead, so the inventory would go down faster...
Perhaps in finding a way to get some of the 17's features into the 15' (e.g. backlit keyboard... fingers crossed), they also worked out how to shoehorn some of them into the 12" too, and they're going to rev it...
Either way, it looks like my 15" PB wait is almost over
That s what i hope just as well. The keyboard backlight is a relly genius ( js that word correct here ? no idea ) feature. I m waiting to see the pb 15 with it. 12 '' is quite improbable i think, they already had to pack everything so near...
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and, would you buy a powerbook with a g4 with a frequency above 1 ghz? I really don t know if I would, as, the g4 is only built for 1 ghz and not more. I may be wrong, but a higher frequency, is for me a synonym with a shorter life span, and a lot of heaet production. And if i spend really ( for me it is much ) money for the 15' pb, i want to keep it as long as possible, not having to worry with heat problems, or any other negative points of a 1.2 ghz version or so
Re: I just don't see the 970 in the Powerbook at this time.
au contraire (I've waited a long time to be able to use that phrase )
All apps will run tremendously faster due to the more efficient processor and the much faster memory bus. 64-bits buys you capabilities to deal with large memory spaces more easily, not speed (for the most part).
au contraire (I've waited a long time to be able to use that phrase
)All apps will run tremendously faster due to the more efficient processor and the much faster memory bus. 64-bits buys you capabilities to deal with large memory spaces more easily, not speed (for the most part).
Don't hold your breath for a 970 soon
Higher MHz G4s sound most likely for the PowerBooks--and would improve an already great system. 970s WILL come to PowerBooks someday, I'm sure, hopefully not too late in 2004. I'll be waiting for a portable 970 myself.
But don't get your hopes too high for 970 portables soon. That strikes me as one of the more extreme rumors out there, and likely to disappoint. Possible? Maybe so. It would be great.
BTW, edu pricing starts at $1499 for the PowerBooks now. Not bad!
Higher MHz G4s sound most likely for the PowerBooks--and would improve an already great system. 970s WILL come to PowerBooks someday, I'm sure, hopefully not too late in 2004. I'll be waiting for a portable 970 myself.
But don't get your hopes too high for 970 portables soon. That strikes me as one of the more extreme rumors out there, and likely to disappoint. Possible? Maybe so. It would be great.
BTW, edu pricing starts at $1499 for the PowerBooks now. Not bad!
Let's not forget
... let's not forget that they've not only dropped prices on the new machines, but they've also added every model of current PowerMacs to the refurbished section. Are they *actually* refurbished? Hehe. Probably... but i think Apple is clearing some inventory or trying to boost some sales before the end of this fiscal quarter (June 30th?).
... let's not forget that they've not only dropped prices on the new machines, but they've also added every model of current PowerMacs to the refurbished section. Are they *actually* refurbished? Hehe. Probably... but i think Apple is clearing some inventory or trying to boost some sales before the end of this fiscal quarter (June 30th?).
Roll out the 970s...
Apple needs to get far, far away from Motorola as fast as possible. The 970 is cheaper than the G4, faster than the G4, and uses less power than the G4. Don't forget, it's the "Year of the Laptop," and Apple has big portable plans in store for us.
While it's true that Powermac G4s were introduced over a year before a Powerbook counterpart was released, the G4 was a minor upgrade overall. When Apple made its last big processor move (to the G3) Powermacs and Powerbooks came at the same time.
Obviously Apple's trying to get rid of excess 12" and 15" Powerbooks, and the only reason Apple ever does that is because new models are on the way.
The Powerbook 970 rumor isn't extreme at all. This latest move provides excellent evidence for an all-model Powerbook move to the 970 at WWDC.
Apple needs to get far, far away from Motorola as fast as possible. The 970 is cheaper than the G4, faster than the G4, and uses less power than the G4. Don't forget, it's the "Year of the Laptop," and Apple has big portable plans in store for us.
While it's true that Powermac G4s were introduced over a year before a Powerbook counterpart was released, the G4 was a minor upgrade overall. When Apple made its last big processor move (to the G3) Powermacs and Powerbooks came at the same time.
Obviously Apple's trying to get rid of excess 12" and 15" Powerbooks, and the only reason Apple ever does that is because new models are on the way.
remember the G3?
for what it's worth, i was just strolling through the apple history section of the apple museum, and the following interesting facts appeared:
First PowerPC desktop system:
Spring 94
First PowerPC laptop:
August 95
first G4 desktop:
9/1/99
first G4 laptop:
1/9/01
BUT...
first G3 desktop:
November 1997
first G3 laptop:
November 1997!
if the 970 is as power-efficient as is rumored, maybe we will see a G3-type situation here...
jf
for what it's worth, i was just strolling through the apple history section of the apple museum, and the following interesting facts appeared:
First PowerPC desktop system:
Spring 94
First PowerPC laptop:
August 95
first G4 desktop:
9/1/99
first G4 laptop:
1/9/01
BUT...
first G3 desktop:
November 1997
first G3 laptop:
November 1997!
if the 970 is as power-efficient as is rumored, maybe we will see a G3-type situation here...
jf
hmmm, well I think I'll keep it for now then, unless three or more of the following happen:
- 1GHz G4
- Better Graphics Card
- L3 Cache!
- 256MB on-board RAM
- Backlit keyboard
- Boot time significantly increased
- 970 (ya, right!)
I'm betting they'll stick the 17 inch's graphics card in the 12", and upgrade the 17" to a ATi.
Backlit keyboard is unlikely, but that would make the 12" the ULTIMATE laptop!
AppleMatt
- 1GHz G4
- Better Graphics Card
- L3 Cache!
- 256MB on-board RAM
- Backlit keyboard
- Boot time significantly increased
- 970 (ya, right!)
I'm betting they'll stick the 17 inch's graphics card in the 12", and upgrade the 17" to a ATi.
Backlit keyboard is unlikely, but that would make the 12" the ULTIMATE laptop!
AppleMatt
Originally posted by evil
nooooooo! i paid 2899 cdn for mine about a month ago and now its 2249!!!
im a poor student. i wouldnt care if i was rich but now i wish i could get some compensation for this.
apparently the credit card i used will give me 100 bucks back. thats no where near the 650 difference
Ouch, you got screwed. The price of the 12" in Canada right now is only $150 Cdn (around $105 US) more than the 12" iBook 800MHz + combo drive that was available less than 2 months ago before the iBook update. I may go for a 12" PB instead now.
Sorry about the $650 difference.I think its ridiculous to think about it that way. You're right, a $600 price difference is $20 per day, but that only corresponds to the difference in price, not the total price. Paying an extra $20 each day over a month for the machine is a big deal, even if he got $5 or $10 a day out of his machine.
Its unfortunate, but that's life. This happens in the computer world often, and it has probably happened to many of us at one point.
Yep, I noticed that too. I checked the UK website, but it didn't drop in price. I also checked the Australian price.......I don't think it dropped there either.
Re: Don't hold your breath for a 970 soon
Fed Employee discount is an alternative for some non-EDU'ers, and the prices there are generally similar:
12"/Combo: $1540
12"/SuperD: $1692
15"/Combo: $1879
15"/SuperD: $2443
17"/SuperD: $3101
FWIW, there's no PB's on the refurb list, but there are PowerMacs listed, as follows:
Power Mac G4 1Ghz 256MB/60GB/Combo/GigE/56K
- Refurbished $1,299.00
Power Mac G4 1.25Ghz DUAL/256MB/80GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K
- Refurbished $1,999.00
Power Mac G4 1.42 GHz DUAL/512MB/120GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K
- Refurbished $2,399.00
Given the Mac performance gap, I'm personally much more inclined to buy a laptop instead of a desktop system. And if Steve is to believed in regards to his claim of "the year of the laptop", this would tend to bode well for a rapid adoption of the 970 into portable applications. What I'd probably be inclined to see is the PowerBooks going to SP 970's and the PowerMac's going to DP 970's.
And while there has been the rumored SP 970 PM motherboard, there's many possibilities as to why. The most commonly heard is that a SP 970 represents the entry-level PM tower (or whatever).
But what's also possible is that Apple wanted to compress their PB rollout schedule as much as possible, which meant that they needed to have some way to get some SP 970's out in the hands of developers before the PB design was completed. The traditional way to do this is to crank up a small production run and grab off-the-shelf stuff for your "test mule". For this application, using the PowerMac chasis is the obvious choice.
-hh
Fed Employee discount is an alternative for some non-EDU'ers, and the prices there are generally similar:
12"/Combo: $1540
12"/SuperD: $1692
15"/Combo: $1879
15"/SuperD: $2443
17"/SuperD: $3101
FWIW, there's no PB's on the refurb list, but there are PowerMacs listed, as follows:
Power Mac G4 1Ghz 256MB/60GB/Combo/GigE/56K
- Refurbished $1,299.00
Power Mac G4 1.25Ghz DUAL/256MB/80GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K
- Refurbished $1,999.00
Power Mac G4 1.42 GHz DUAL/512MB/120GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K
- Refurbished $2,399.00
Given the Mac performance gap, I'm personally much more inclined to buy a laptop instead of a desktop system. And if Steve is to believed in regards to his claim of "the year of the laptop", this would tend to bode well for a rapid adoption of the 970 into portable applications. What I'd probably be inclined to see is the PowerBooks going to SP 970's and the PowerMac's going to DP 970's.
And while there has been the rumored SP 970 PM motherboard, there's many possibilities as to why. The most commonly heard is that a SP 970 represents the entry-level PM tower (or whatever).
But what's also possible is that Apple wanted to compress their PB rollout schedule as much as possible, which meant that they needed to have some way to get some SP 970's out in the hands of developers before the PB design was completed. The traditional way to do this is to crank up a small production run and grab off-the-shelf stuff for your "test mule". For this application, using the PowerMac chasis is the obvious choice.
-hh
Originally posted by Abstract
Yep, I noticed that too. I checked the UK website, but it didn't drop in price. I also checked the Australian price.......I don't think it dropped there either.
Someone over on Ars said prices on the 17 in Aus. dropped about $700, and ~$1000 on the 15's....
Which is possible given that they've jumped up in value almost the same amount as we have, only from a lower rung on the ladder...
abstract:
i kinda know what you are saying, but you can (and have to) think of this kind of situation like the way i posted.
time is money. having a computer in your hand and being able to work with it is worth something. yes, evil effectively paid $20 a day for a month to get the same computer, but he got something out of the computer. price difference or total price, doesn't matter. the only difference is that he had a computer for a month. (and the price dropped.)
you cannot ask management to postpone purchasing a computer because the "price is bound to drop." if you need it, you buy it.
i realize this explanation probably doesn't apply to a student like evil, because he probably didn't absolutely need the computer when he purchased it, and a $650 drop (which is 25% of the original purchase price) is somewhat of an extreme, but i hope you understand my point.
in this case, apple did a little bit of an extreme. it's an unfortunate combination of currency market fluctuations and the update cycle. (as far as apple is concerned, they got the same amount of u.s. dollars... but of course, evil physically had to $650 more a month ago... bummer )
i kinda know what you are saying, but you can (and have to) think of this kind of situation like the way i posted.
time is money. having a computer in your hand and being able to work with it is worth something. yes, evil effectively paid $20 a day for a month to get the same computer, but he got something out of the computer. price difference or total price, doesn't matter. the only difference is that he had a computer for a month. (and the price dropped.)
you cannot ask management to postpone purchasing a computer because the "price is bound to drop." if you need it, you buy it.
i realize this explanation probably doesn't apply to a student like evil, because he probably didn't absolutely need the computer when he purchased it, and a $650 drop (which is 25% of the original purchase price) is somewhat of an extreme, but i hope you understand my point.
in this case, apple did a little bit of an extreme. it's an unfortunate combination of currency market fluctuations and the update cycle. (as far as apple is concerned, they got the same amount of u.s. dollars... but of course, evil physically had to $650 more a month ago... bummer
)
I'd say it's not as far fetched as some would like to believe. As others have pointed out, consider the G3 release. Both PM and PB were released simultaneously. So Apple has shown that they can do it. Now, of course these will be first gen machines with some bleeding-edge issues. The next rev is the one that I'd target for those who can wait...
Say, anyone else remember IBM said the 970 was coming in at 1.2GHz, 1.6GHz, and 1.8GHz.
Question is, why a 1.2GHz? Its the only model Apple could use in the current process technology that would work in a PowerBook. Also, notice that IBM has announced blade servers running from 1.6GHz to 2.4GHz using the 970 chips. If IBM isn't using the 1.2GHz, and if you claim Apple isn't using it because they are waiting for a smaller process.......then let me ask: WTF would IBM be making the chip for?
Question is, why a 1.2GHz? Its the only model Apple could use in the current process technology that would work in a PowerBook. Also, notice that IBM has announced blade servers running from 1.6GHz to 2.4GHz using the 970 chips. If IBM isn't using the 1.2GHz, and if you claim Apple isn't using it because they are waiting for a smaller process.......then let me ask: WTF would IBM be making the chip for?
year of the laptop??
what kind of person would make an announcement at the start of '03 and say, this is the 'year of the laptop' A year doesn't end in June. 970s or whatever the hell the chip is, is VERY possible in the portables. I'm not getting anybody's hopes up, but why say year of the laptop, and come with desktops, and low-end g4 box's like all this crap says on the sites??
just my nickel's worth, heh
what kind of person would make an announcement at the start of '03 and say, this is the 'year of the laptop' A year doesn't end in June. 970s or whatever the hell the chip is, is VERY possible in the portables. I'm not getting anybody's hopes up, but why say year of the laptop, and come with desktops, and low-end g4 box's like all this crap says on the sites??
just my nickel's worth, heh
According to Mac Generation there is a 300 Euro redux on the 17" Powerbook that more than US$300 in Europe
Re: I just don't see the 970 in the Powerbook at this time.
How does one compare speed between a 1.42 GHz (DP) G4 and a P4 3.06GHz. I'm seriously wondering.
I have a QS 733 and it's very fast (plus my 22' display kicks arse). I bought a 12" iBook for my wife (900MHz) and it seems the same. I have a Dual 933 PIII and a Ultra SPARC 360MHz (64bit as well). The slowest of the bunch as far as snappiness is obviously the SPARC. However the Dual 933 feels as fast as the QS 733. 10.2 made all the difference in the world. 10.1 was f'n A slow. I cannot wait for 10.3.
I've also got a 1.13GHz PIII laptop that is over a year old so Apple really does need to get something going in the GHz race that is about 50 to 100% faster just for marketing sake.
If they come out with a 15" G4 and a PowerMac 970 I'll buy both. However if they come out with a 15" 970 and a PowerMac 970 I'll just skip the PowerMac. Apple might increase sales (at least 1 to me) if they stagger the release of the 970 throughout their lineup.
How does one compare speed between a 1.42 GHz (DP) G4 and a P4 3.06GHz. I'm seriously wondering.
I have a QS 733 and it's very fast (plus my 22' display kicks arse). I bought a 12" iBook for my wife (900MHz) and it seems the same. I have a Dual 933 PIII and a Ultra SPARC 360MHz (64bit as well). The slowest of the bunch as far as snappiness is obviously the SPARC. However the Dual 933 feels as fast as the QS 733. 10.2 made all the difference in the world. 10.1 was f'n A slow. I cannot wait for 10.3.
I've also got a 1.13GHz PIII laptop that is over a year old so Apple really does need to get something going in the GHz race that is about 50 to 100% faster just for marketing sake.
If they come out with a 15" G4 and a PowerMac 970 I'll buy both. However if they come out with a 15" 970 and a PowerMac 970 I'll just skip the PowerMac. Apple might increase sales (at least 1 to me) if they stagger the release of the 970 throughout their lineup.
Their own linux based desktop system (a la the Ultra SPARC family). Sun charges an arm and a leg for their 64 bit machines. Go look at a Blade 2000.
http://www.sun.com/desktop/sunblade2000/
Blade 2000:
Dual 1.2GHz UltraSPARC III
512MB RAM
SCSI Hard Drives
Good FX Card
$10,000
Crazy. IBM Linux on PPC. IBM will kick the crap out of this setup for 1/2 the price. Short Sun (sunw) now. They are a sinking ship. (Wouldn't it be sweet if Apple returned the insult to buy them for 1/4th of their market cap! lol, karma you sun jerks).
The new 64bit world is open for all. AMD, Intel (bad strategy), IBM (PPC), Apple. It all depends on who doesn't drop the ball. And who decides to do the best/most marketing. Go Apple!!!
iBook
So...
what is better buy now?.. the 900Mhz iBook or the reduced 800Mhz 12"AlBook?
It was looking like the iBook was a better buy, before the price drop.
So...
what is better buy now?.. the 900Mhz iBook or the reduced 800Mhz 12"AlBook?
It was looking like the iBook was a better buy, before the price drop.
Originally posted by Mr. G4
According to Mac Generation there is a 300 Euro redux on the 17" Powerbook that more than US$300 in Europe
since the pbooks are more than 700euros to expensive right now, compared to US$ Apple store - a 300euro reduction is still very modest.
You can do benchmarks... like
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm
The new 800 mhz FSB 3.0C Ghz P4 would be even faster...