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Apple lying to its customers

ButtUglyJeff said:
I wonder how many of these remotes are just sitting is drawers, doing nothing. That's what the one I got with the family iMac is doing.................
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I would venture to say that most organizations who purchased Macs with the Apple Remote did not distribute them since they are so easy to misplace. Rather, these organizations just kept them in a drawer for safe keeping. The bigger the organization the bigger the drawer. :)
 
You guys are missing the point. I agree that most remotes don't get used (mine gets used a lot, due to Keynote presentations).

But they did remove something from the package without changing the price. If they removed the remote, they should've dropped the prices by $19 to compensate the people buying them.

Instead, you are paying the same amount but you are getting less stuff for your money (whether or not you plan to use that stuff is irrelevant).

The point is to buy an iMac with a Remote it used to cost $1199, now if you want to buy an iMac with a remote it costs $1218. It is a price increase.

It is even more dramatic for MacBook Airs which used to come with DP to DVI and VGA adaptors which cost $60 total (effectively raising the price of the MacBook Air by $60 compared to the first gen).

Personally, the remote and adaptors are worth it for me, so I guess I am going to have to pay more next time I buy a mac (if my current set breaks), but it is what it is. Let's not pretend that it doesn't matter at all (which you wouldn't be saying if you did actually use your remotes or adaptors or if Apple no longer bundled something else you did use effectively raising the price).
 
Gregintosh said:
...........But they did remove something from the package without changing the price. If they removed the remote, they should've dropped the prices by $19 to compensate the people buying them.

Instead, you are paying the same amount but you are getting less stuff for your money (whether or not you plan to use that stuff is irrelevant).

The point is to buy an iMac with a Remote it used to cost $1199, now if you want to buy an iMac with a remote it costs $1218. It is a price increase............
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They replaced the remote with a processor upgrade, more RAM, bigger hard drive, faster graphics, etc. etc...............

I'll take a new faster machine, then a slower one with a silly accessory included.

I question your counting. So far I count 4 pluses to your 1 minus......
 
ButtUglyJeff said:
They replaced the remote with a processor upgrade, more RAM, bigger hard drive, faster graphics, etc. etc...............

I'll take a new faster machine, then a slower one with a silly accessory included.
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No kidding.

Who cares about a remote control when you get these other upgrades.

And for those who want one, they are free to purchase it separately.
 
i dont care if i need to pay more

look i don't care if i need to pay more. i will buy a remote. i just hate it when reps lie to me. its like they think all of their customers are uninformed.
 
Oh please, that's total bull. Obviously they upgraded the computers themselves. That's the whole point of a new version. But with the prices of individual components dropping, they aren't really sacrificing much margin giving us hardware bumps (to at least more modern technology).

There really shouldn't be a trade off between giving us upgraded hardware and giving us the remote (or cables).

Would you be okay with it if the next revision took away the battery (The new faster macbook... batteries not included?) Would that be an okay trade off to get faster hardware or some more memory? Probably not.

This was purely an attempt at increasing the average selling price and reduce costs. First, by not including the items they reduce cost (to the tune of millions of dollars per quarter) and second, they are increasing the average selling price (even if one out of twenty users opts to buy the additional remote, that raises the average selling price by $1 per unit, and if Apple happens to ship a couple million units that quarter that again adds a few million dollars to their bottom line).

So taking out the remotes probably saved them a few million in costs and added a few millions in revenue. Win-win situation for Apple. The consumers get less value for the money than they did before.

The best part is its subtle enough not to be noticed by many (and totally unnoticed by new to Apple customers).

I am just waiting for the day they stop including restore DVDs with their computers and instead make you burn your own copy from a hidden partition, like the other PC manufactures do (by necessity since their margins are razor thin due to competition).

I wonder how many people will finally say enough is enough and how many people will instinctively defend Apple with "oh you don't need to restore often anyway" or "it just takes 30 minutes guys, whats the big deal" comments.
 
007bond said:
look i don't care if i need to pay more. i will buy a remote. i just hate it when reps lie to me. its like they think all of their customers are uninformed.
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Right. But the problem is, you're assuming that they know what the truth really is, and are intentionally trying to hide it from you. It sounds like they just really didn't know (probably assumed that it went out with the white iMacs).

Personally, I find it more annoying when people take a situation and try to turn it in to something it's obviously not. They have zero reason to try and deceive you, and since you apparently already know whether the remotes were included in the last generation or not, I really don't see the point of all of this...

<edit>

And if you (or anyone else) is really curious, looking at the refurb section, there's a last gen iMac available right now (at a decent price) and yes, it includes a remote. So for those of you interested in arguing particulars, yes - they came with the remote. For those of you who are interested in purchasing one, and really wanted to know if they were included - yes, they do. For those of you simply looking to be upset with someone, I'm probably lying to you right now.
 
Gregintosh said:
Oh please, that's total bull. Obviously they upgraded the computers themselves. That's the whole point of a new version. But with the prices of individual components dropping, they aren't really sacrificing much margin giving us hardware bumps (to at least more modern technology).

There really shouldn't be a trade off between giving us upgraded hardware and giving us the remote (or cables).

Would you be okay with it if the next revision took away the battery (The new faster macbook... batteries not included?) Would that be an okay trade off to get faster hardware or some more memory? Probably not.
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:rolleyes:

The "slippery slope" argument has ALWAYS been a flawed one. Did you really just equate the usefulness of a battery with that of a remote?
 
I don't think the reps were lying, but it isn't unreasonable to expect that they should at least have a consistent answer. If they can't get a question about remotes right, who knows what else they're wrong about- especially if someone is new to the platform or doesn't know better.

When working for any business in customer support, you have a responsibility to provide accurate information.
 
and my first iPod came with... a dock, a case, a cleaning cloth, and a bag...


I worked as a CSR for a credit card company for a few years and believe me the worst job in the world is CSR in a call center. And if you think about all the things that they should or shouldn't know a small issue like a remote being included or not in previous generations is not a priority for them, their priority is probably counting down the time until they go home. And most of my co-workers were not too intelligent yet they wouldn't ever respond with "I don't know" instead they would make something up, you could call 100 times and get 100 different answers to a specific question. And as far as getting better people or paying more keep in mind each call to a call center already costs at least $50 (between hiring, staff, training, and just the infrastructure) and escalated calls cost a few hundred (I bet if you complained enough or got to a supervisor they would send you a remote for free, I saw hundreds of fees waived and balances wiped out for persistent people.)
 
mkaake said:
Right. But the problem is, you're assuming that they know what the truth really is, and are intentionally trying to hide it from you. It sounds like they just really didn't know (probably assumed that it went out with the white iMacs).

Personally, I find it more annoying when people take a situation and try to turn it in to something it's obviously not. They have zero reason to try and deceive you, and since you apparently already know whether the remotes were included in the last generation or not, I really don't see the point of all of this...

<edit>

And if you (or anyone else) is really curious, looking at the refurb section, there's a last gen iMac available right now (at a decent price) and yes, it includes a remote. So for those of you interested in arguing particulars, yes - they came with the remote. For those of you who are interested in purchasing one, and really wanted to know if they were included - yes, they do. For those of you simply looking to be upset with someone, I'm probably lying to you right now.
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look i don't care for the old iMacs i want a new one and i don't mind paying extra for a remote. its just that they should be more informed. if they cant tell me about a remote, then whats the point of the rep at all. for ex: i wanted to know what graphics were best for me. either the gt130 or the radeon 4850. the rep said that the fastest was the 9400m. they're just stupid.
 
Gregintosh said:
Would you be okay with it if the next revision took away the battery (The new faster macbook... batteries not included?) Would that be an okay trade off to get faster hardware or some more memory? Probably not.
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You honestly think a laptop battery, an essential component, is as important as a rarely used accessory; the remote? Last I checked, my Mac runs fine with the remote with the wrapper still on it.

BTW, Apple already sells Macbooks without batteries. They're called iMacs.....
 
Apple giveth, and apple taketh away. Some people will grouse about every change that it makes to any model of system, and others would rejoice if Steve Jobs dropped his trousers and took a pi$$ on their heads.

Remember when the 20" imacs went from plastic to aluminum? Steve went over the new design onstage to the oohs and aahs of the adoring crowd, went into details about the new features, and proudly announced the reduced pricing for them. What he didn't mention was that they put in a cheaper quality screen.

Ditto for the ipod touch 2nd generation. I imagine the applause would have been muted had he announced, "Oh by the way, you should know that half of the various accessories you already have that have the 'made for ipod' logo on their boxes won't charge this because we took out firewire charging! Isn't that great?!?"

And in making unibody macbooks, no mention was made of the lack of firewire support; oddly enough, that was somehow glossed over. It wasn't until people coming home from the apple store noticed that they couldn't plug their firewire devices into their glistening new machines. At least in the original iMac presentation, he had the balls to say that floppies were dead and wouldn't be supported on those machines.

I could probably come up with at least a few more examples of this mentality.

You can say that the consumers are to blame for not doing their homework before making their purchases, and there is an element of truth to it. But you could also say that apple's sleight of hand and sins of omission do not exactly engender trust with its long term customers.
 
Tallest Skil said:
Exactly. Remotes were included up through the first aluminum iMac, and then they were removed. Remotes were included up through the Early 2008 MacBook family, and then removed there.
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Through the 2008 imacs, actually. I got one with my 20" 2.66 (previous gen).
 
I would defiantly recommend buying one with your iMac - makes front row very pleasurable.

I think it's a shame Apple don't include them as standard anymore - it adds to Mac experience.

Anyway, as for Apple lying... I very much doubt that is the case. You got to remember not all employees idolise Apple and have followed their every move for the last decade. They have a sales job, know what they need to know to sell the current product range and do their job.

It's a shame you feel let down though - you should just let them know at your local store, I'm sure they'll try their best to look after you.
 
codo said:
I would defiantly recommend buying one with your iMac - makes front row very pleasurable.

I think it's a shame Apple don't include them as standard anymore - it adds to Mac experience.

Anyway, as for Apple lying... I very much doubt that is the case. You got to remember not all employees idolise Apple and have followed their every move for the last decade. They have a sales job, know what they need to know to sell the current product range and do their job.

It's a shame you feel let down though - you should just let them know at your local store, I'm sure they'll try their best to look after you.
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I second what codo says - if you have a gripe you should certainly let the company know, as should all posters and readers of this thread who are missing the inclusion of remotes. If you feel you have gained value through the omission of the remote, then why not let Apple know too?

Apple are aware that they have a savvy yet dedicated fanbase. If enough people spoke out - but directly to Apple themselves, their marketing people might bend to the general will and include the remote next time around, or include something else to compensate for the loss of value.
 
My iMac remote was an integral part of the mac experience until about a month ago when the battery died. Too lazy to replace it..
 
miles01110 said:
Haha. Don't hold your breath.
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OK, so it's highly unlikely - making a few folks happy v millions of dollars of profit margins is not often a fairly fought battle in corporations.

However, seeing as keeping customers happy can generate income, consumer revolt can influence decisions taken in corporate structures. Facebook changing it's format is one example; although, off-topic, it will be interesting to see how Google Maps respond to the paranoid outcry in the UK.
 
Making something up when you dont know the answer is the same thing as lying. Sales people do that all the time, they could just say "I dont know" but apparently thats bad, so they lie by making something up, considering how widespread it is I would be surprised if it wasnt encouraged by managers as a "tactic"

But they did remove something from the package without changing the price. If they removed the remote, they should've dropped the prices by $19 to compensate the people buying them.

Instead, you are paying the same amount but you are getting less stuff for your money (whether or not you plan to use that stuff is irrelevant).
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The thing is nobody was ever paying for the remote when buying a mac. The apple apologists will ask you if you would rather spend more on a mac with the remote instead of buying it seperately but thats not how it works. When was the last time you spent $1518.99 on a mac instead of a nice number like $1499? And do macs cost 1478.98 now that we dont get accessories anymore? Of course they dont, Mac's end with a 99.00, not some random number based on the cost of the accessories (or lack there of with everything apple sells now). These little things were always FREE to us but not to Apple, the only losers here on Apple's nickel and diming scheme are the consumers.
 
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