Apple Mac Sales Flat in November

[TEG]

This is an indicator that Apple need to the following;
1) Update desktop lineups more often/consistently
2) Offer something between The Core 2 Duo iMac, and the Xeon Mac Pro. I know several people who have purchased PCs because they didn't need the power of the Xeon, but did need the Core 2 Quad, and they didn't want a built in screen. So either extend both lines to overlap with Core 2 Quad systems, or create a new Desktop (or even an expanded Mac mini line) that fill the void.
3) Cut prices more often, instead of changing prices when models are updated.

TEG

 

[thejadedmonkey]

yeah since dell and hp also make all their laptops from one piece of aluminum. and have multi-touch trackpads installed on all laptops..


come on....lets get our facts straight.

Except how many people would choose a laptop because of multi-touch trackpads, and not price/ram/processor speed...

 

[talkingfuture]

How official are these figures? I can't see Apple releasing them outside of their earnings reports. Are these just analyst predictions?

These figures are calculated from data collected by the NPD Group, Inc. (formerly National Purchase Diary), which tracks retail sales. Of course, these figures aren't going to be as accurate as the figures that Apple gives out at their earnings, but these research groups still hold some merit. It should be noted, however, that Apple usually understates their expected sales for the quarter and has beaten their own predictions for the last few years. Hopefully, despite the economy, they achieve this again.

One good thing about being tight on money for the foreseeable future is that, in theory, people may put more thought into a value purchase, as opposed to something that will need to be replaced or upgraded soon. Spend now, save later.

Thanks for explaining. Wasn't sure if there was any merit there or not.

 

[jellomizer]

I think people want a Mac.

not an iMac or a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro. Just a Mac.
A sub $500 unit
A mid sized tower unit.
Graphics good enough to run modern games smoothly.
CPU and Ram and hard-drive that you can upgrade yourself. Or get a reasonable quantity.

In Essence it could be configured to a cheaper version of the Mac Mini to more Powerful then a low end configuration of the Mac Pro.

Or lets go to Apples roots. Sell an Apple Motherboard with OS X and you can build your own Mac.

 

[alexbates]

I really hate that I'm seeing this story all over the web. The fact that their desktops (minus the iMac) haven't been updated in about a year (Mac Pro) or more (Mac Mini) can't be helping this data.

This is the reason that the desktops aren't selling. I bet the new Macbooks are selling good because they were just updated. This is all Apple needs to do to fix the sales problem.

 

[HyperZboy]

People are just waiting for Mac OS X Snow Leopard, or waiting for new iMac updates, that may be why they are waiting to buy a new Macbook or iMac. It sure is the reason why I'm not buying anything

Dumbest quote I've read here in a long time. Go back to your koolaid man.

No one is waiting on Snow Leopard and probably not even for new iMacs either.

What people are waiting for is something Apple DOESN'T EVEN SELL, i.e.: reasonably priced desktop Macs that have some level of longevity/upgradeability. Apple doesn't even sell such a beast.

In next year's bad economy, people are going to be looking for value and something not just disposable in a couple years. And Apple is going to take a serious beating for their arrogance.

 

[crees!]

(looks to last weeks 14% raise)
Economic downturn? I choose to not participate. As for purchasing a new Mac. I think I'll wait till 10.7 and hope my PowerBook can ruff it out.

 

[bpd115]

Currently I have a 2.66 Ghz Quad Mac Pro, introduced first in 2006. I bought it in 2007.

I've had it for a year and a half but the model is two years old and honestly it's plenty fast for what I do, and with Snow Leopard it should be faster.

The next Mac Pro will be Core I7 based and a screamer no doubt. But where will it beat my current machine? Video encoding and number crunching apps.

My machine handbrakes movies plenty fast enough for my needs, creates dvds and handles iMovie projects and my photography wonderfully. The only needed upgrade is video as I'm still running the 7300....but that's only a video card swap away.

People who make their living in the video world will no doubt be all over the New Mac Pros. I can't see myself upgrading until something like 16 cores are standard. When will that be? 2 years? 3 years?

I know it's been beat like a dead horse but I think Apple hurts itself on the desktop side by not having something in between the pro and iMac/Mini.

The iMac is great for people like my inlaws and parents who want an elegant solution, no mess, no fuss.

The mini is a good intro mac for the kids and grandma. People with little space, good working monitors and want something small and cheap (in mac terms) to email and surf the web.

What about the customers who want a traditional desktop but don't need the size and power of the Mac Pro? The midsize tower with a core2duo, a killer Ive's designed case and an upgradable GPU.

The lack of that machine hurts desktop sales. It would eat some Mac Pro sales but only from customers who are buying Pros simply because Apple lacks the machine above.

 

[arn]

Thanks for explaining. Wasn't sure if there was any merit there or not.

It's also notable that they are comparing their November numbers to their own numbers from last year. So, since they are both using the same methodology, it does mean something.

arn

 

[notjustjay]

I think it's less about the price of the product but about the fact that they're stagnating. The mini is the most painful example. Consumers these days are smart enough to research things on the web, and to all of us on the forum it is completely obvious that the Mac Pro, etc. are sorely in need of a refresh.

Certainly it wouldn't hurt if the prices went down, and stayed down. Apple has made half-hearted gestures at reducing prices, but they never seem to stay that way. Remember the original price of the Mac mini? Then it went up again... and stayed up. The MacBook has also effectively jumped up in price, if you want the fancy aluminum shell instead of the same old white plastic model.

Hopefully the fact that we're in an economic downturn will help motivate Apple into seeing what they need to do.

 

[msb65]

Apple's computers are built in China, along with all the other crap we buy. There's no reason for prices to be as high as they are.
The only reason to justify it would be if they were built in the U.S. The MBP is built in China.
Update the Mini and stop being so arrogant, Apple.

I completely agree on the arrogance of Apple. Don't get me wrong, I love Apple products. However, given the unquestionable loyalty of it's customers, I do not feel that Apple treats them with the amount respect they deserve. Rather they take advantage of it. Apple has accumulated a fair amount of hubris, and perhaps these figures are a result.

Apple has made some truly amazing products, but that doesn't free them from criticism. If they showed more respect I bet they would do even better! Don't ignore the fact that the country is in a recession. Offer more customizing options. Don't charge $150 for 2 GB of RAM. Allow the iPhone on more than one carrier. Be more transparent with the App store.

I love Apple products, but I don't like it when my loyalty is taken advantage of.

 

[Eric S.]

Economic downturn, high retail prices - of course these are factors. But Apple Inc. used to be Apple Computer Inc. The emphasis in the last few years has been on their consumer electronics business, and it shows in their computer products. Long cycles between hardware and OS upgrades, quality issues with initial releases, botching an important feature like Firewire - it's no surprise that Apple's longtime established customer base is getting frustrated.

 

[bdkennedy1]

Apple is really going to have to completely redesign the iMac to something awesome to get me to switch from my current aluminum one. It's beautiful.

Let's remember that the current iMac design is 4 1/2 years old.

 

[Tallest Skil]

3 Words: I Told You SO!

Somebody needs to tap Steve Jobs on the shoulder and give him a hint.
I think he's been spending way too much time playing with his iPhone instead of his Macs.

You told us what so? Notice that it's Apple Inc., not Apple Computer Inc.

Taking cues from a recent advertisement...

*Interior: White Space, Day(?): Steve Jobs sits at his desk sorting a huge pile of money*

Steve: iPhone and iPod, iPhone and iPod, iPhone and iPod... Mac Pro and Mac Mini... iPhone and iPod, iPhone and iPod...

*A guy with a sign on his shirt reading "The personification of the Mac community" walks up*

Macman: Oh, hey, Steve Jobs. What're you doing?

Steve Jobs: Oh, hey, loyal Mac users. I'm just budgeting our 25 billion dollars. iPhone and iPod, iPhone and iPod...

Macman: Well, yeah, Steve, but... doesn't something seem a little off here? I mean, the Mac Mini hasn't been updated in three short of 500 days; the Mac Pro only gets updated every 518, and don't get us started on the xMac...

Steve Jobs: Don't get me started... but you're right. I guess my focus has been a little bit off.

Macman: Well, good; I'm glad that...

Steve Jobs: I'll just put it all in the iPhone and iPod. Hey, look! An iPhone nano!

Macman: Screw that.

And then instead of the Apple logo at the end, they just show the iPod logo.

 

[alphaod]

Apple's computers are built in China, along with all the other crap we buy. There's no reason for prices to be as high as they are.
The only reason to justify it would be if they were built in the U.S. The MBP is built in China.
Update the Mini and stop being so arrogant, Apple.

What's that suppose to mean? If you're insinuating that things made in China are cheap you should try to buy foreign-branded Chinese manufactured automobiles... Also you should convince Asus, Gigabyte, Acer, etc to all cut their motherboard prices since stuff Made in China should be cheap.

 

[dernhelm]

Dumbest quote I've read here in a long time. Go back to your koolaid man.

No one is waiting on Snow Leopard and probably not even for new iMacs either.

What people are waiting for is something Apple DOESN'T EVEN SELL, i.e.: reasonably priced desktop Macs that have some level of longevity/upgradeability. Apple doesn't even sell such a beast.

In next year's bad economy, people are going to be looking for value and something not just disposable in a couple years. And Apple is going to take a serious beating for their arrogance.

Apple can always DROP prices and be a "hero". Apple's pricing strategy has always to be on the high end and deliver value for the money. IMHO they've done that pretty well. In the current (and forseeable future) economy, that strategy might cause them to give some of the market share gains back, but it wouldn't necessarily cost them any money.

I'm not sure that Apple cares a lot about marketshare, leastwise not at the cost of profits. They thrived on a lot smaller marketshare in the past, they could do so again.

However, if they are smart, they find a way to trim margins - while still producing compelling products, and undercut current price points. They have the warchest to take a bit of a profit hit in order to garner marketshare. This crummy economy is a opportunity - all they need to do is to hold their own in a shrinking market, and they'll come out way ahead in terms of marketshare. As it turns out their laptop products don't seem to need the pricing help in order to sell well, but their desktops apparently do.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them leave the laptop pricing alone while dropping prices on the products that are struggling a little.

 

[kingtj]

Not sure I agree.....

Sure, the higher price of a Mac will cause slower sales during tough economic times. But the majority of their customer-base has always been the people in the higher income brackets. (Many pro movie editors and producers, college faculty, wedding photographers and videographers, pro or semi-pro musicians, etc. etc.)

I don't see Mac sales slowing down disproportionately to sales of any other computer, simply because of the economy. Rather, the fact their desktops are all in need of a refresh, is the thing slowing those sales down.

The interesting thing about the iMac (especially the 24" screen version) is how many of them I've observed people using as an LCD TV set in their bedroom, along with it doubling as a computer. Personally, I think Apple could really boost iMac sales if they'd embrace this reality by building in a digital TV tuner and enhancing "Front Row" to become a full PVR application.

The recession will hit premium products hard. Look at the car industry. And what class of product does Apple specialise in? More people will be looking at Macs and thinking 'I can't justify the money' now.

On the other hand, nice to see the laptops keeping up. The new design is a great factor but probably also because laptops are a different market. I for one would not buy an Apple desktop because they're too expensive for what they do and don't meet my needs (no intermediate tower, and I hate the iMac), but the laptops are much more up my street, and they are becoming more popular as a desktop replacement these days.

Will be interesting to see whether Apple does anything about this at Macworld.

 

[DarthTreydor]

It's not excessive if people pay it.

But there's never anything wrong with a price cut.

i think what the data shows is that people aren't paying it. at least not the way were a year ago. so yes, it is excessive, especially in the case of the mini being offered at $600, a figure that many would argue was overpriced for the specs when it was last updated A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.

 

[talkingfuture]

It's also notable that they are comparing their November numbers to their own numbers from last year. So, since they are both using the same methodology, it does mean something.

arn

Thanks, that useful to know in the future. You can never tell with analysts how much fact and how much rumour they use.

 

[BenRoethig]

This is so true!! Thank you for saying it finally. People the parts are all the same. Apple bring down the price. At least bring down the price of your desktops. Keep the laptop price where ever you want it. You have done enough research on your own.

I think the lack of updates on the desktop, all in one, and workstation lines may have something to do with it as well. With the cheap quad cores out there, the iMac is starting to fall behind. They could also do well with a lower end model with the Geforce 9400M to take the eMac's old spot as a machine for entry level buyers as well as the education and business markets. The MacPro isn't actually that bad, and the Nehelem Xeon 5500-series is right around the corner. Lastly, the mini has been so neglected that it has become a joke. I'm sorry, but I can't recommend any computer with an 80GB hard drive these days unless its an ultraportable or a netbook. With music and video files, its far too small of a capacity for a modern frontline computer. The rumored unibody machine should have been updated with the notebooks, might have brought Apple some extra holiday purchases.

In another note, this is an area where the demise of Macworld New York/ Boston is felt. Apple has to keep most of its trump cards for just after the holiday buying season.

 

[HyperZboy]

What's that suppose to mean? If you're insinuating that things made in China are cheap you should try to buy foreign-branded Chinese manufactured automobiles... Also you should convince Asus, Gigabyte, Acer, etc to all cut their motherboard prices since stuff Made in China should be cheap.

Umm, last I checked Chinese manufactured automobiles were not even legal in the U.S. because they do not meet the stringent U.S. safety or fuel standards.

So if you're paying lots for a Chinese car, its because its the same thing as an illegal DRUG right now in the U.S.! LOL

 

[alexbates]

not an iMac or a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro. Just a Mac.
A sub $500 unit
A mid sized tower unit.
Graphics good enough to run modern games smoothly.
CPU and Ram and hard-drive that you can upgrade yourself. Or get a reasonable quantity.

In Essence it could be configured to a cheaper version of the Mac Mini to more Powerful then a low end configuration of the Mac Pro.

Or lets go to Apples roots. Sell an Apple Motherboard with OS X and you can build your own Mac.

Under $500....not going to happen. Apple doesn't want to throw out a bad product out with little RAM and HD (otherwise they would not get as much profit if they had expensive RAM or HD). Jobs beleives in innovation and I think he's going to keep it that way, except for the cheaper Mac Mini.

 

[SFStateStudent]

I'm doing my part to help out Apple by purchasing (2) Mac Mini (not even released yet, so I guess I'm starting a pre-order list) and one of "them" new MBA things to replace my old MBA thing...

 

[chrisPA]

This is a myth.

Apple's margins are pretty much in line with any manufacturing company's margins, and substantially lower than most software makers.

Based on this quote from the Wall Street Journal Article, it isn't a myth: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122938758242108907.html

"Despite short-term weakness, analysts expect Apple's products to remain more profitable than many rivals' computers. The MacBooks are forecast to deliver close to 20% profit margins, compared with 6% or less for competitors, said Toni Sacconaghi, an analyst at Sanford Bernstein & Co."

That's triple or better profit margins compared to competitors...

 

[whatever]

Lowering prices is not the answer. Once you lower them it becomes to difficult to raise them. If lower prices were the solution then Dell wouldn't be in the mess that they are in.

I for one question those numbers, especially since according to people I know at various Apple Stores tell me that they have customers still in their stores 30 minutes after closing purchasing computers. Granted there are more laptops being sold, however for the most part Apple's laptops cost more than the average computer (desktop or laptop). And the trend is that these customers are also buying an Apple external monitor....

So there is no need for Apple to lower their prices. Things are going quite well and from what I've heard, they well on their way of beating their projections for this quarter.