Apple Mac Sales Flat in November

[schneb]

But there's never anything wrong with a price cut.

Correct. However, what I agreed with most is this,

"Apple's desktop Macs (Mac mini, Mac Pro, iMac) are overdue for refresh."

That stopped me from buying any hardware in November. It will also stop me in January unless they do something to upgrade their CPU line. I want a headless Mac. I don't want it to be wimpy, and I don't want it to cost $2,500 either.

 

[msb65]

In my opinion Apple is out of touch with their customers regarding the computers they produce. They should understand that they have a lot of very loyal customers who want to keep supporting them, and don't mind paying a bit extra. I consider myself one of those customers.

However, if I am paying extra I want more options with respect to processor speed, memory, disk space, screen size etc. Don't expect me to pay extra because of ornamental stuff like a glass trackpad or unibody enclosure. Instead make it so I can easily replace memory and batteries, and access the hard drive. Apple needs to treat its customers with respect and shouldn't expect them to always remain loyal. Because they won't. After all, a cheap PC running Linux can do all of the same stuff. It might not look as good, but at least you won't get ripped off.

 

[jackfrost123]

There are many interesting and worthwhile posts here that have pretty much covered me, let me just reverberate that apple have been IDIOTS to not upgrade the mini for 16 months and to let the Imacs lag behind in terms of specs from the competition, that's not the way to cash on the hottest os at the moment that is os x (or even the iphone for that matter) over the god awful worst vista. If you want the hallo effect you can't snob customers who can afford your $500 option and somehow forget to update it for over a year....

 

[ray648]

If they are comparing their figures against figures from last year could this be partially caused by people buying new mac last november just after the release of leopard? I got my iMac last november because I was waiting for leopard to be released so I wouldn't have to pay for the update, maybe other people did the same and in fact it appears to be a drop because there was a spike last year?*

*This is purely speculation, as I have no idea if last years figures were abnormal in any way.

 

[iSee]

Apple isn't really even trying in the desktop area.

1. The iMac is a nice computer in a lot of ways but hardly covers the spectrum of the desktop computer market.

2. Then there's the so-old-I-forgot-it-hasn't-been-discontinued Mini. Update please!

3. The Mac Pro is also a nice computer but is in a tiny niche of the desktop market.

The mid-sized tower is so obviously missing. What *are* they so afraid of? That it would canibalize sales of the iMac makes no sense since they would surely increase overall Mac sales even if the iMac sold less. I'm sure they realize this since they went throught this with the iPod. I guess they want to stay focused on markets with bigger growth potential. You can't give up your foundation, though, while you're stretching for new markets.

 

[iOrlando]

i think these comments are getting more crazy as the thread gets longer.

Someone mentioned apple is losing out in design to "someone else." Show me the pictures... that comment is totally unfounded. If you are suggesting dell, lenovo, or HP laptops are now better in design than apple...i object to your reasoning.

As for prices and what not.....people..apple is still selling macs...you do know 1% negative growth means they are still selling roughly the same amount they did last year...millions...

I paid $1200 for my macbook...and not the 2000's or 3000's that i "need" to spend to get a mac with osx on it like someone previously wrote.

The economy sucks..we know...8% have no jobs...we know...apple sales will hurt...we know...but dont start to judge steve's strategy or plan....

you want apple to charge $600 for their laptops? watch what would happen in 2-5 years...

We will be the new lenovo and macbooks will be stocked at your local walmart and target.

 

[Winni]

"We don't know how to make a 500 Dollar computer that's not utter crap." - Steve Jobs

Well, the people who are currently having Apple's lunch obviously know how to make a 300 Dollar computer that consumers are buying like crazy. That's what you get when you try to ignore that the world's economy is going downhill and when you still only focus on the high end market.

The same is happening to the arrogant American automobile industry. For more than a decade, their European dependencies have been telling them that the world's running out of oil and that gasoline will become unaffordable. They just ignored it. At the end of next year, most of them will deservedly have disappeared into history.

This recession won't be over soon. Like the Great Depression in the late 20s/early 30s of the last century, this one will be around for a couple of years, and we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg yet.

Maybe Apple should stop developing and selling computers entirely and just focus on the software - lower production and development costs, MUCH higher margins. (Do I hear the cry "HERESY"!? ;-)

 

[iSee]

In my opinion Apple is out of touch with their customers regarding the computers they produce. They should understand that they have a lot of very loyal customers who want to keep supporting them, and don't mind paying a bit extra. I consider myself one of those customers.

However, if I am paying extra I want more options with respect to processor speed, memory, disk space, screen size etc. Don't expect me to pay extra because of ornamental stuff like a glass trackpad or unibody enclosure. Instead make it so I can easily replace memory and batteries, and access the hard drive. Apple needs to treat its customers with respect and shouldn't expect them to always remain loyal. Because they won't. After all, a cheap PC running Linux can do all of the same stuff. It might not look as good, but at least you won't get ripped off.

LOL. While I generally agree with you're saying, I've got to ask: How in the world did you become a loyal customer while expecting these things from Apple? They have never been good at offering lots of build and upgrade options.

 

[msb65]

and macbooks will be stocked at your local walmart and target.

Oh the horror! That means those poor people will be able to buy them!

If you want a status symbol try this: http://www.luxuo.com/2008/12/versace-hotel-to-refrigerate-beach.html

 

[IJ Reilly]

Reality: These are forecasts, and for only one month.

Reality: Apple has been growing their Mac shipments at ten time the rate of the Windows PC industry for the last couple of years.

Reality: This growth rate occurred on the basis of the current Mac product lineup.

Conclusion: The idea that Apple must completely revamp its approach to selling Macs is not based on reality.

 

[jackfrost123]

Reality: These are forecasts, and for only one month.

Reality: Apple has been growing their Mac shipments at ten time the rate of the Windows PC industry for the last couple of years.

Reality: This growth rate occurred on the basis of the current Mac product lineup.

Conclusion: The idea that Apple must completely revamp its approach to selling Macs is not based on reality.

Yeah but this is not what the majority is saying most here find it unaccepable that the entry mini has been left to rot in disrepair and hasn't been updated in computer aeons and that the possibility of a product between the imac and the mini hasn't been considered at all. Having said all that, you do have a point, but I wonder how much of that growth is os related and how much is hardware related, I would claim that the force that drives apple's insane growth so far is by far os x.

 

[kjs862]

I don't know what is report is talking about, I didn't even know Apple sold a a desktop computer.

Mac Pro - Workstation
iMac - all in one
mac mini - who know what that is

 

[Winni]

We will be the new lenovo and macbooks will be stocked at your local walmart and target.

And who except for a fistful of product snobs would actually give a crap about that? It doesn't hurt me or my personality should this ever happen, I can assure you that. And my bank account would probably just love it.

Besides, Lenovo Thinkpads beat the crap out of Apple's "Pro" notebook line in the business world. Somebody at Lenovo (and before that, somebody at IBM) knows what business/corporate customers want and need. Now the marketing folks at Apple on the other hand think that when they put a "Pro" label on something they will already touch base.

No matter how you want to look at it, PC notebooks with comparable technical specifications costs between one third and a half of what a MacBook Pro costs. You pay a LOT for the "unibody" design and the "privilege" to run OS X. If paying so much more makes people feel special, they've got a serious personality problem.

 

[Winni]

I don't know what is report is talking about, I didn't even know Apple sold a a desktop computer.

Mac Pro - Workstation
iMac - all in one
mac mini - who know what that is

iMac - It's an all in one DESKTOP
Mac Mini - That's also a (small) DESKTOP

 

[XeshaBlu]

There sure is a lot of whistling past the graveyard going on around here. Discount those whose predictions have been accurate at your peril.

I'm especially fond of those who resort to the old 'Apple is sitting on a pile of cash' argument. Big companies with lots of cash never go under, right?

And as for the idea that Apples traditional customer base - movie makers, musicians, and publishers - will continue to buy in a sinking economy; I sure want some of that sticky bud. Guess I was unaware that jobless people love to spend money on frivolous entertainment products.

 

[msb65]

And as for the idea that Apples traditional customer base - movie makers, musicians, and publishers - will continue to buy in a sinking economy; I sure want some of that sticky bud. Guess I was unaware that jobless people love to spend money on frivolous entertainment products.

It's pretty ironic that those listed are traditionally "the starving artists".

I wonder if Linux will ever come close to those applications. If so peace out Apple.

<gasp> Did I just say that?

 

[Tosser]

yeah since dell and hp also make all their laptops from one piece of aluminum. and have multi-touch trackpads installed on all laptops..


come on....lets get our facts straight.

What about magnesium roll cage, titanium alloys, carbon fibre, fingerprint reader, three usb ports, expresscard slot (well – on a 13-incher) and on and on? Yup, that's right.

Anyway, as you missed it: The point was that the parts that are at the core of a system, they're all basically the same.

Further, one could easily argue that Apple tends to use last generation hardware. Take for instance the resolution of the 15-incher –*the competitors offer the same resolution but at 13 inches.

Getting your facts straight?

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah but this is not what the majority is saying most here find it unaccepable that the entry mini has been left to rot in disrepair and hasn't been updated in computer aeons and that the possibility of a product between the imac and the mini hasn't been considered at all. Having said all that, you do have a point, but I wonder how much of that growth is os related and how much is hardware related, I would claim that the force that drives apple's insane growth so far is by far os x.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the mini doesn't need to be refreshed. Obviously this is overdue, and is likely to happen in January. Beyond that, I'm hearing arguments that Apple must now immediately start selling everybody's pet products, and that they have to sell them at prices that compete with the cheapest Windows PCs. As if Apple has been doing it wrong all along and has to completely change their approach to the market. I think there's a lot of instant amnesia going around.

 

[midiotlv]

It is the lack of firewire on the MacBook (and a troublesome FW chipset on the MBP).

Just kidding, maybe...I know it cost them my laptop purchase.

-D

 

[kingtj]

To all of this, I say "So what?"

Let's say you're 100% correct and Apple hit this "saturation point". Nobody else on earth wants to switch to a Mac. All of their sales are now going to existing Mac owners. The question then becomes this: Does Apple care?

I'd say no, they don't. Their company is magnitudes smaller than companies like Microsoft (who don't even attempt to build a computer -- only an operating system, applications for it, and some peripherals). They're really not equipped to *handle* having too much "market share".

Rather than cutting a lot of corners to offer cheap Macs "for the masses", Apple went a different route -- selling iPods and iPhones and Apple TV boxes that appeal to "everyone else", with lower, more affordable price-points.

Apple knows and practices something their competitors obviously forgot all about. Often, it's a better place to be as a company selling your goods to a smaller, but loyal audience, than to try to provide the "standard issue" products sold everywhere and used by everyone.

To use the "food analogy", many people invested in a McDonalds franchise, because it's proven to be a money-maker and has huge popularity. Nonetheless, gourmet chefs still enjoy a good living running high-end gourmet restaurants. Which one winds up more "respected" for putting out a quality product?

It is excessive to MOST. As I have said for YEARS - Apple would eventually hit the saturation point at their current pricing structure. I think that time is now and a little help from a poor economy may have sped-up that saturation point - but it is clear that those who want a Mac have bought one (for the most part) based on price. People can start flaming now - but Apple is a premium product in so far as people buy it at that elevated price. The price is now a stumbling block to many. In the age of $300 netbook computers and $500 quad-core PC's - a $1300 entry-level aluminum MacBook seems excessive to many people - especially in this economic climate. If Apple want to continue to grow is market share it MUST (in my opinion) lower the prices and offer more options for those who cannot and will not pay the Apple 'tax' such as it is.

Apple does not NEED to use Xeon CPU's in the Pro and there is not need for other choices Apple uses that does not directly affect the performance of the OS or the stability. If Apple would offer a Mac Mini with reasonable specs for $499 or even $399 they could capture the low-end market that will not and maybe cannot afford the high-end products. I do not think you will pull market from the high-end products as those are a different type of user.

I am sure the Mac elitists are already sharpening their keyboards for a smart-ass comment but I think Apple has saturated the market for high-end, boutique products and in order to compete in this current market climate they need more choices and a lower entry-level price point.

Again - this is just my opinion from a reasonably well educated mid-30's male with a small business and a bit of experience with how the real-world works. Apple is a fine company and one that has had fantastic success recently with the model they are using now - but how well Apple succeeds from this point on is a factor of Steve Jobs and his desire to cater to a client without the ability or desire to buy a $2000 MBP or $3500 MP.

D

 

[HyperZboy]

iMac - It's an all in one DESKTOP
Mac Mini - That's also a (small) DESKTOP

I personally don't consider either of those Macs a true "desktop computer", and neither is certainly a midrange desktop or mini-tower, but maybe it's semantics.

But if you want to say they are desktops, I'll give you that.

Now WHY aren't they SELLING well is the REAL problem, huh?
And worse yet, why are they UNDER-SELLING Windows desktops?

The people who are grasping at straws here to defend Apple just look plain silly. The sales #s speak for themselves and Steve Jobs will have to explain them at the next quarterly sales report. It's not gonna be pretty I bet too. Only Steve Jobs and Apple are to blame for this, wrong products/pricing for the current economic times, period, end of story.

And even if Apple fixes the product line in January, they will still be like 2-4 months behind the curve. All the current PC manufacturers already have these products that Apple doesn't currently sell. Apple will be losing market share once again and playing catchup, no, not in design quality or KEWLNESS, simply on value and having a product people need for the times.

I rest my case.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I rest my case.

How can you rest your case when you haven't made one?

 

[HyperZboy]

How can you rest your case when you haven't made one?

Sorry, but you're gonna spill the koolaid all over yourself in a spit-take when you see Apple's NEXT month desktop sales #s.

Trust me, I've made my case quite well.

Just step away from Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field and you'll see it.

 

[MrCrowbar]

I personally don't consider either of those Macs a true "desktop computer", and neither is certainly a midrange desktop or mini-tower, but maybe it's semantics.

But if you want to say they are desktops, I'll give you that.

Now WHY aren't they SELLING well is the REAL problem, huh?
And worse yet, why are they UNDER-SELLING Windows desktops?
I rest my case.

Well, people nowadays want laptops. You can use them on your couch while watching TV, making presentations, taking notes at school, etc. The computeing power is more than sufficient for all of that.

Desktops makes sense if you like games or when you have a desk job. Both of these things work "better" on Windows anyway.

Personally, I have an "old" Macbook as main computer and a (still current model) Mac Mini as Media Center / Server at home. A big advantage of laptop hardware is that it's quiet and power efficient, both things that are very important to me and lots of consumers.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Sorry, but you're gonna spill the koolaid all over yourself in a spit-take when you see Apple's NEXT month desktop sales #s.

Trust me, I've made my case quite well.

Just step away from Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field and you'll see it.

Nice non-defense of your non-argument.