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This of course does not take into account.

PC's put together by people themselves.
PC components purchased to update/improve/upgrade existing machines.
The fact that due to the about a PC can last way longer and still perform up to date far longer than a Mac.

I don't mind surveys but they almost always distort.

If PC's were glued shut and when they got slow you bought a new one, then PC sales might rise.
If Macs could have new CPU's, Graphics Cards, More memory and drives fitted by the user, then more people may hold onto them longer without needing to buy a whole new machine.

This would be valid explanation if we were still in the nineties but not anymore. Here's why:
  • The general consumer doesn't put together their PC by themselves anymore. It is clearly visible in the amount of companies specialised in custom building that went into default or bankrupt recently. An example is Atelco in Germany, one of the biggest on the planet in this respect. Another clear indicator is the shelf space that computer components get in big box and more specialised stores. They shrink by the minute. The amount of self built PCs would not make a significant dent into the statistics shown here.
  • Those that used to need custom built PCs can now buy good enough BTO machines off the shelf. Even gaming rigs are now more conveniently bought off the shelf or BTO. I know this might not be representative, but the last time I heard anyone talk about building a PC themselves I was still in the previous millennium doing my Ph.D.
  • The general consumer buys laptops nowadays and is less and less interested in upgradability. This is not only a "feature" of Apple products but also of others. Look at Samsung, Microsoft etc that now produces devices that are just as much glued shut as the Apple devices. With the decreased demands of specs by the consumers and the increased quality of the hardware, self-upgrading and repairing has become very unappealing and uninteresting.
  • The general longer lifespan of Apple devices would offset the perceived problem that they cannot be upgraded. My Father still uses a 2004 MacBook that runs well enough for his purposes (mail, word and internet). My sister's Dell that was purchased somewhere in 2010 is long dead (and she treated it well). Most people that have transitioned from PC to Mac have stories like this.
 
Just reading this after coming back from the shop buying three laptops: two MBAs and one HP spectre x360.
I have been bitching for a while that the MBAs need an upgrade, just couldn't wait any longer. The HP has a skylake i7 and is built like a MBP, but lighter and has a touch screen. But cheaper than an MBP and I wrangled an extra $600 off the three, mostly off the HP. I bought base model MBAs for the Miss Entropys as the MBAs haven't been updated.
 
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But Macrumours readers told me that the new Macs suck and no one would want them. :eek:

You need to check your eyes... ;) the only model to cope a lot of critism was the new iMac .... The product range as a whole is very good.
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This would be valid explanation if we were still in the nineties but not anymore. Here's why:
  • The general consumer doesn't put together their PC by themselves anymore. It is clearly visible in the amount of companies specialised in custom building that went into default or bankrupt recently. An example is Atelco in Germany, one of the biggest on the planet in this respect. Another clear indicator is the shelf space that computer components get in big box and more specialised stores. They shrink by the minute. The amount of self built PCs would not make a significant dent into the statistics shown here.
  • Those that used to need custom built PCs can now buy good enough BTO machines off the shelf. Even gaming rigs are now more conveniently bought off the shelf or BTO. I know this might not be representative, but the last time I heard anyone talk about building a PC themselves I was still in the previous millennium doing my Ph.D.
  • The general consumer buys laptops nowadays and is less and less interested in upgradability. This is not only a "feature" of Apple products but also of others. Look at Samsung, Microsoft etc that now produces devices that are just as much glued shut as the Apple devices. With the decreased demands of specs by the consumers and the increased quality of the hardware, self-upgrading and repairing has become very unappealing and uninteresting.
  • The general longer lifespan of Apple devices would offset the perceived problem that they cannot be upgraded. My Father still uses a 2004 MacBook that runs well enough for his purposes (mail, word and internet). My sister's Dell that was purchased somewhere in 2010 is long dead (and she treated it well). Most people that have transitioned from PC to Mac have stories like this.

Atelco Is not a specialised PC builder company. The custom PC sector is doing very well actually, I have not seen a single company that specialises in custom PC go under.

PC gaming had a resurgence and is doing very well, so are PC custom sales.

The perception about Apple devices lasting longer is a myth, thier users treat them better. I've killed macs quickly gaming on them, once I stopped.....they last a very long time.

A Mac is about convience , a lifestyle choice. A customs PC you tinker with.....overclocking is a basic feature these days.

For one to be able to understand quality of components they would need to to build a PC using quality components , and than open a Mac Pro up (previous gen) and realise how cheap the parts are in a Mac compared to high end PC parts.
 
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People want good laptops. Period. Not hybrids or any of that garbage that turns into a tablet with 2 hour battery life. They want the best experience on the best hardware.
Can’t believe you got a single upvote for that crap.
They want the best experience and hardware yes, they also want to keep their money to spend on other things. If they wanted to I’m sure they could make a device that switches pretty seamlessly between one type and the other and at little additional cost. That is what people want. Unless you actually need quantity, why on earth would you want two devices if one can do the job just as well?
If I can attach a keyboard to my iPad and have the OS change to a full desktop mode, why would I not want that.

Let me put a twist on your post;
People want the best camera. Period. Not hybrids, (Smartphones), or any of that other garbage that turns into another device with no optical zoom. They want the best experience on the best hardware.

See how one device can do the job of two in this instance?
 
1)Macs have and always will be in the 7-15% of "personal computer sales" for a lot of reasons. This story is the same old story we hear every Quarter on MR.

Well, no. Apple used to be around 7% in the USA not long ago and now is at 12.8%. Apple used to be not mentioned (not in the top 5) not long ago which meant their share was less than 5% world wide, and now it's 7.5%. Increased market share is a new story every time. You don't get increased market share by sitting still.
 
People want good laptops. Period. Not hybrids or any of that garbage that turns into a tablet with 2 hour battery life. They want the best experience on the best hardware.

No they don't. Just a few people want that because they can afford it. Business/enterprise users who used to refresh their PC's after 3 years are running them into the ground and replacing them on an ad-hoc basis (which is causing the 'PC is in decline' nonsense) and the average consumer who wants to buy a computer will tend to pick up a cheap Windows PC.

The main reason Macs are doing so well is because they are the 'must have' machine for students and student loans & attractive purchasing schemes makes a Mac possible for so many people, which is a good thing obviously.

The rest of the industry is now releasing some really nice PC's and CES showed how good Dell, HP etc are at producing great PC's when they put their minds to it. Apple now need to raise the bar further with new MacBooks.
 
Exactly. More Windows users = more Windows programs. Makes sense.

But it's the opposite on the iPhone.

The iPhone was NEVER the dominant platform... yet developers go there first (sometime exclusively)

I think that's the only case of Tiny market share = outstanding developer support.

The number of phones sold is irrelevant. The amount of cash that these phone owners are willing to pay for apps, that's relevant.

There are people who have a phone in the glove compartment in their car, just in case the car breaks down and they don't have their regular phone with them. Just to be cautious. That phone used to be the cheapest dumb phone that you can find. Android phones are so cheap now, it could be an Android phone. Which is literally _never_ used.

This is true, people that know I use Macs ask me about how much a used Mac cost because they want to give one a try, but don't want to paid the premium price for a new one.

More often than not, they are very surprised about how much the used ones are.

They hold their value pretty well, although not as well as they used to.

To be honest, and I'm saying that as a long time Mac user, what some people seem to be willing to pay for used Macs on eBay seems ridiculous - especially if you visit the Apple Store refurbished section where you can make good savings on a slightly older model, but still have full warranty.

The general consumer does not care about specs.


There's one spec they should care about and many care about: "Is supported by a store with employees who are paid to help you, and who know what they are talking about. "
 
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People want good laptops. Period. Not hybrids or any of that garbage that turns into a tablet with 2 hour battery life. They want the best experience on the best hardware.

One should not confuse "best hardware" with design/case.

I don't own a single mac product that has the Best Hardware in class. By that, I mean what is inside the machine. I've never associated hardware with the physical structure. (imac is closest to being best in class)

Macs offer "best" experience of compromised hardware designed for stability within design constraints that make them the best looking laptops on the market.
 
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Apart from the fact of the custom built PCs and so on, this only reflects the US. In the rest of the world the Mac share is (even more) residual. I have a Macbook and I like them, but they're really just a luxury item, quite a waste of money.
 
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There's one spec they should care about and many care about: "Is supported by a store with employees who are paid to help you, and who know what they are talking about. "

And also that's where Apple wins. Their store personnel is expertly trained and knows what is inside the machines and how they work. I see babyboomers in training sessions all the time in the Amsterdam store.

Now go into any other store that sells computers and the breadth of different types overwhelms the store employees. The only advice that they will be able to provide you with is printed on the card next to the display.

And even beyond that. Try custom building a PC (with all associated hardware incompatibilities) and try getting support with that if you can't solve the issue yourself. Precious little people still make the mistake of doing this.
 
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The number of phones sold is irrelevant. The amount of cash that these phone owners are willing to pay for apps, that's relevant.

I know.

I was simply pointing out how it differs from the Windows market since the previous comment mentioned user base.

More people use Windows PCs... so more desktop programs are written for it.

On iPhones it's the opposite. Even though there are fewer iPhone users... it actually has tremendous software support. And yes... the reason is because iPhone users are willing to pay for apps.

I didn't give a reason why in my first comment... but you figured it out ;)

In short... user base isn't always what it's cracked up to be.
 
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Apart from the fact of the custom built PCs and so on, this only reflects the US. In the rest of the world the Mac share is (even more) redidual. I have a Macbook and I like them, but they're really just a luxury item, quite a waste of money.

Yes, they are a luxury item, but they do what they are supposed to do very well.
 
Apart from the fact of the custom built PCs and so on, this only reflects the US. In the rest of the world the Mac share is (even more) redidual. I have a Macbook and I like them, but they're really just a luxury item, quite a waste of money.
The article mentions Worldwide (first chart)

And also the US (second chart)

Apple is doing well in both.
 
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Yes, they are a luxury item, but they do what they are supposed to do very well.

Exactly... That's one of the reasons people got fed up with Windows because it was promoted as a luxury item and it was quite a waste of money. Now with Windows 10 a whole new generation of people are being deceived. Like it's been said before you can't polish a turd because it's still just a turd in the end!
 
Exactly... That's one of the reasons people got fed up with Windows because it was promoted as a luxury item and it was quite a waste of money. Now with Windows 10 a whole new generation of people are being deceived. Like it's been said before you can't polish a turd because it's still just a turd in the end!

Windows 10 is a brilliant OS. I don't want to turn this into another Windows bashing thread, but how are people being deceived?
 
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Windows 10 is a brilliant OS. I don't want to turn this into another Windows bashing thread, but how are people being deceived?

Like I said it's still a turd. It's Windows. Crashes, freezes, viruses and malware! People with Windows better get a bitcoin account because sooner than later they're going to have to pay!
 
Like I said it's still a turd. It's Windows. Crashes, freezes, viruses and malware! People with Windows better get a bitcoin account because sooner than later they're going to have to pay!

What version of OSX are you running that in not susceptible to crashes, freezing or malware?

Windows 10 is as solid as OS X. Both have issues . Both compliment each other on a Mac.
 
What version of OSX are you running that in not susceptible to crashes, freezing or malware?

Windows 10 is as solid as OS X. Both have issues . Both compliment each other on a Mac.

The same one that was based on NeXTSTEP oh so many years ago. Windows on the other hand is an amalgamation of code with it's roots still entangled with MS-DOS. Yes, both have issues but in my opinion Windows has way more than OS X. Especially when it comes to viruses and malware. Can you honestly tell me that someone can surf the web running Windows without paying a yearly fee to protect themselves from viruses and malware? Also if they don't, how much time and money do they have spend to get themselves back to "normal" operations? Hell, I catch flack from the OS X side because I promote using free malware protection. I don't really need it but I have it just in case!
 
And also that's where Apple wins. Their store personnel is expertly trained and knows what is inside the machines and how they work. I see babyboomers in training sessions all the time in the Amsterdam store.

Now go into any other store that sells computers and the breadth of different types overwhelms the store employees. The only advice that they will be able to provide you with is printed on the card next to the display.

And even beyond that. Try custom building a PC (with all associated hardware incompatibilities) and try getting support with that if you can't solve the issue yourself. Precious little people still make the mistake of doing this.

I know you don't care and are convinced of your opinions but:

You mean like two weeks ago when my computer stopped booting and I took it to the store where I bought my stuff and said "before I return stuff do you want to take a look?". It was diagnosed on the spot and a new board was handed to me.

Want to build a PC and are in Germany:

http://www.arlt.com/
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The same one that was based on NeXTSTEP oh so many years ago. Windows on the other hand is an amalgamation of code with it's roots still entangled with MS-DOS. Yes, both have issues but in my opinion Windows has way more than OS X. Especially when it comes to viruses and malware. Can you honestly tell me that someone can surf the web running Windows without paying a yearly fee to protect themselves from viruses and malware? Also if they don't, how much time and money do they have spend to get themselves back to "normal" operations? Hell, I catch flack from the OS X side because I promote using free malware protection. I don't really need it but I have it just in case!

I don't buy antivirus for my daughters PC..

Don't surf on an admin account (just like you shouldn't be on any OS) and you're good to go.
 
Especially when it comes to viruses and malware. Can you honestly tell me that someone can surf the web running Windows without paying a yearly fee to protect themselves from viruses and malware? Also if they don't, how much time and money do they have spend to get themselves back to "normal" operations? Hell, I catch flack from the OS X side because I promote using free malware protection. I don't really need it but I have it just in case!

No one has to pay a yearly fee if they don't want to. I never have as there are good enough free programs out there and even with them viruses and malware are never an issue. You use free programs for the Mac the same applies to Windows.

With basic computer knowledge or half an hour on you tube anyone could find out how to maintain and fix their computer if there are ever any issues.
 
I love my Macs. I have been using them for over 20 years, have have purchased over a dozen for my home.

But, lately, it seems like Macs are becoming Apple's "Red headed step child".

They do not get updates that often, and sometimes the previous model becomes more attractive in the short term. Like in the case of the Mac Mini.

Also, I look at the reducing of the SSD in the fusion drive and wonder why they would do stuff like that.

I love my Macs, and can never picture myself switching to Windows, at least not anytime soon, but I wonder how long Apple will be able to keep these Mac sales up.

As opposite, I wonder how Apple has grown so little compared to the rest of the industry. Businesses are starting to realize Macs are cheaper in the long run. There is a revolution quietly unfolding here; watch Apple explode their market share in the next 5 years.
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As someone who is need of updating his Mac lineup, I find myself stopping every time I go to apple.com and look at what is being offered. The stock computers are (let's admit it) lame, and outdated by at least two-years when compared to what is being offered on PCs. I am talking about Flash Storage prices, RAM prices, Intel chip updates, etc. Apple is at least two years' behind their computers, and yet charging outrageous prices for any sort of upgrade (why are they still offering hard-disk drives at 5400 rpm speed?!?!?!).

So Apple is shooting themselves in the foot. They are making money *(too much money)* on the upgrades they are forcing upon the user. If we want a top-notch machine at top-notch speed and performance, Apple is hitting us with (yes) the Apple Penalty….. 1.5x or 2.x the price. They do it with the Macs, they especially do it with their iOS devices and their meager stock-RAM and storage.

Shame on Apple. They should be the leader in all things -- innovative and in competitive pricing.

Shame on Apple? Because they actually bucked the trend of a collapsing PC industry? Some people are just unbelievable.
 
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