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So are we who wait insane? Apple just keeps doing things the same and we keep expecting different results...

So we wait and hope, wait and hope, wait and hope....Maybe this year...nope. Maybe this year...

Kinda, sorta. :) The problem is - as much as Apple as fallen - the grass isn't greener on the other side yet, IMO. I could switch... I'd get by. I'd save some money and have access to some higher performance (note: not necessarily better) hardware. But on the whole, the experience would still be worse.

The reason I'm (as a 30-year Apple user, support person, and evangelist) complaining like crazy, is that I see the writing on the wall. If we can't get Apple to take note and change their ways, I will eventually have to switch.

But, it's much bigger than shipping a Mac Pro or a new mini. Apple is now rotten at the core. We need the Apple back that put UX, UI, and making the best stuff back as job #1. (Instead of profits, spreadsheets, tech industry 'wisdom' and the like.) That's what put them in the #1 spot, and without it, they won't be there forever, or even that much longer.
 
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Just give me an SSD, 8GB of RAM, a modern CPU (Kaby Lake, Ryzen), and a couple USB-C ports for ~$500 and I'll be a happy camper.

...Which is basically your average laptop these days without a battery, keyboard, and display. That's not too much to ask for at $500.
 
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With an SSD and a sorta modern CPU (prob Skylake) it will be closer to $1,500 not $500... Not because the components are that expensive but because that's what Apple thinks you'll pay.


Just give me an SSD, 8GB of RAM, a modern CPU (Kaby Lake, Ryzen), and a couple USB-C ports for ~$500 and I'll be a happy camper.

...Which is basically your average laptop these days without a battery, keyboard, and display. That's not too much to ask for at $500.
 
With an SSD and a sorta modern CPU (prob Skylake) it will be closer to $1,500 not $500... Not because the components are that expensive but because that's what Apple thinks you'll pay.

Well if they stay with SATA drives, they could keep the price lower. But considering the Mac Mini averages 600-800 days between updates, I'd rather pay twice as much (which is about what the component price difference is) for an NVMe SSD that will have much better performance longevity.
 
I think there will be a "cheap" (~$700) option with a SATA Fusion drive. They will find a way to dicsourage swapping it for a SATA SSD though.

$1,500 for a mac with an NVMe SSD is still a ripoff. Now that Samsung 960 is very affordable, macs no longer have competitive advantage in the hardware category.
 
I think there will be a "cheap" (~$700) option with a SATA Fusion drive. They will find a way to dicsourage swapping it for a SATA SSD though.

$1,500 for a mac with an NVMe SSD is still a ripoff. Now that Samsung 960 is very affordable, macs no longer have competitive advantage in the hardware category.

Hopefully there will be an SSD option, but they should at least put a Seagate Hybrid drive in or, yes, a Fusion Drive. I doubt anyone wants a standard HD anymore, now they they've experienced SSD. HD, is now for archival, backup, RAIDs, etc. for the most part.
 
Now that Samsung 960 is very affordable

Lol, wut?
NewEgg has the 1tb for $630 & the 2tb for $1300
Even a 512gb is almost $350... how could anyone rationally expect that in a machine @ a price of $500 total?
The latest gen processor, 8gb of RAM, motherboard, I/O, casing, packaging, etc. is going to come in at $150, leaving room for a profit margin? Lol.
I'm a bit more realistic, so I'll hope for one around $700, & snap it up on day one if it reaches fruition.
 
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I'd sell my children to Medical Science for a fully topped up mini/mini-pro that could run an 8K display and offered a real keyboard - one that does not give you RSI.
 
Is there any professional use for anything about 60hz? I mean most TV's/cinema's operate at 60hz max right, if not 24 frames per second.

professional? stuff relating to 3d graphics would be one but not much else.

8k is the logical step, but my preference is 144hz. if you've ever used a 144hz monitor, you'll never want to go back. scrolling the browser really pops out. gaming at 144hz is amazing. it's almost like experiencing the retina display for the first time. but going from 4k to 8k...isn't that much of a lifechanger.

i can easily imagine an iphone 8s/9 with a 144hz screen. it's that good.
 
professional? stuff relating to 3d graphics would be one but not much else.

8k is the logical step, but my preference is 144hz. if you've ever used a 144hz monitor, you'll never want to go back. scrolling the browser really pops out. gaming at 144hz is amazing. it's almost like experiencing the retina display for the first time. but going from 4k to 8k...isn't that much of a lifechanger.

i can easily imagine an iphone 8s/9 with a 144hz screen. it's that good.

Going to 8k (or whatever k) on a computer display would be about screen space at this point, and I don't know how big of displays people are willing to move to. There has been a move towards single huge displays instead of multiple displays. I suppose that 8k on an ultra-wide and fairly big display might be good. But, I think we're already at or over the necessary dpi.

re: 144hz... I've never seen one, but isn't there some limit there too for where it even matters? Plus, the hardware actually has to be able to refresh the display with information quickly enough (which is usually more where the problem are, not the display hz.)

I'm all for upping things like dpi and refresh rates and such, so long as they are meaningful w/o too big of downsides. These things can too easily just fall into spec-battles and upping for the sake of upping. 4k TVs are a good example, as most people don't have a big enough screen and/or sit close enough for it to really make much difference.
 
Going to 8k (or whatever k) on a computer display would be about screen space at this point, and I don't know how big of displays people are willing to move to. There has been a move towards single huge displays instead of multiple displays. I suppose that 8k on an ultra-wide and fairly big display might be good. But, I think we're already at or over the necessary dpi.

re: 144hz... I've never seen one, but isn't there some limit there too for where it even matters? Plus, the hardware actually has to be able to refresh the display with information quickly enough (which is usually more where the problem are, not the display hz.)

I'm all for upping things like dpi and refresh rates and such, so long as they are meaningful w/o too big of downsides. These things can too easily just fall into spec-battles and upping for the sake of upping. 4k TVs are a good example, as most people don't have a big enough screen and/or sit close enough for it to really make much difference.

In terms of screen space, I don't set my scale to the most screen space because the letters are already too small. Most likely, I'm going to have the exact same real estate, but in much more detail. Except now, you need a more powerful GPU to power that type of screen (as well as pay a big premium on that monitor). Only big reason for 8k is if you're shooting in 8k using those big RED cameras. Otherwise, I'm not going to be too impressed from 4k->8k.

144hz is a huge step up from 60hz. little less if you're already on 90hz, but still noticeable. just moving the mouse pointer feels completely different. i thought the mouse was literally hovering on top of the screen like an actual real-world object. websites pop out at you like an actual clean newspaper. highly recommend checking out 144hz at fry's or something.

i can't imagine apple doubling the resolution yet again on a phone. the only other major change is upping the resolution once they figure out how to keep the same battery life.
 
In terms of screen space, I don't set my scale to the most screen space because the letters are already too small. Most likely, I'm going to have the exact same real estate, but in much more detail.

Screen real estate and font-size shouldn't be linked. Unfortunately, from what a friend told me, Apple has actually gone backwards on that front. But, same here... my older eyes don't like 4pt text no matter the dpi. :) (I have no idea what some app and web designers are thinking these days.)

144hz is a huge step up from 60hz. little less if you're already on 90hz, but still noticeable. just moving the mouse pointer feels completely different. i thought the mouse was literally hovering on top of the screen like an actual real-world object. websites pop out at you like an actual clean newspaper. highly recommend checking out 144hz at fry's or something.

I guess I can see the mouse movement thing, but I'm not sure why a website would 'pop out'. The smoothness of a website load doesn't have much to do with screen refresh rate. I understand that certain types of computer-drawn graphics will do better at higher refresh rates than we're used to with captured video. But, I suppose the actual human eye is well beyond any of this stuff... so I suppose room for improvement. :)

i can't imagine apple doubling the resolution yet again on a phone. the only other major change is upping the resolution once they figure out how to keep the same battery life.

Even then I'd say it's kind of pointless, as 'Retina' is already the resolution at which the typical person can't distinguish a difference at a typical use distance. Making it higher just seems like a waste, even if it could be done at similar battery life. If there's no advantage, then use the GPU power for faster frame-rates or better effects and such.
 
I guess I can see the mouse movement thing, but I'm not sure why a website would 'pop out'. The smoothness of a website load doesn't have much to do with screen refresh rate. I understand that certain types of computer-drawn graphics will do better at higher refresh rates than we're used to with captured video. But, I suppose the actual human eye is well beyond any of this stuff... so I suppose room for improvement. :)

A website pops out because it feels like you're scrolling a real piece of paper. It's very life like. Any window you move feels like you're moving a giant solid business card across the screen. You just have to experience it in person.


Even then I'd say it's kind of pointless, as 'Retina' is already the resolution at which the typical person can't distinguish a difference at a typical use distance. Making it higher just seems like a waste, even if it could be done at similar battery life. If there's no advantage, then use the GPU power for faster frame-rates or better effects and such.

sorry, there was a typo, i meant "the only other major change is upping the refresh rate", not "the only other major change is upping the resolution". the refresh rate is the next big thing. like i said before, i can't imagine apple increasing the resolution in their iOS devices anymore.
 
Lol, wut?
NewEgg has the 1tb for $630 & the 2tb for $1300
Even a 512gb is almost $350... how could anyone rationally expect that in a machine @ a price of $500 total?
The latest gen processor, 8gb of RAM, motherboard, I/O, casing, packaging, etc. is going to come in at $150, leaving room for a profit margin? Lol.
I'm a bit more realistic, so I'll hope for one around $700, & snap it up on day one if it reaches fruition.

I have no idea where the $500 price tag came from. I said the NVMe SSD model would cost $1,500, not $500. If Apple was competing with PC manufacturers, then the price would probably be ~$800. However, since mac are in their own segment, Apple can get away with way better mark-ups than the industry average.
 
professional? stuff relating to 3d graphics would be one but not much else.

8k is the logical step, but my preference is 144hz. if you've ever used a 144hz monitor, you'll never want to go back. scrolling the browser really pops out. gaming at 144hz is amazing. it's almost like experiencing the retina display for the first time. but going from 4k to 8k...isn't that much of a lifechanger.

i can easily imagine an iphone 8s/9 with a 144hz screen. it's that good.

Even with 3D graphics, unless it is being watched/viewed with capable screens at that hertz, won't it go to waste? If I was a game/content designer, I'd be checking how it looks on 60hz screens, because that is what 99.99% of people have.

I guess the one use would be 3D, although not that popular right now.
 
Even with 3D graphics, unless it is being watched/viewed with capable screens at that hertz, won't it go to waste? If I was a game/content designer, I'd be checking how it looks on 60hz screens, because that is what 99.99% of people have.

I guess the one use would be 3D, although not that popular right now.
i would imagine that there are as many 8k screens being used by consumers as 144hz screens
 
The Mac Pro is really oriented for the pros in view of its power and especially its price even in basic config ... If it should to add the screen (s) able to display a Hyper Ultra Mega HD, it will be super expensive......


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http://iphon8.fr/ apple iphone 6
 
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Exactly. Only way the Mac mini makes sense is if it covers the low end of the market. The rumored high end mini would surely cannibalize iMac sales to an extent.

The thing about all these arguments of mac mini cannibalizing iMac sales: it presumes that the bulk of we consumers don't mind essentially "throwing away" a big/expensive machine including a high end display every 5 years or so. I'm now on my second iMac (a 2014 retina) and I will not buy another one. It's a nice machine, but in a few years when it's long in the tooth, it will be a big/bulky unit that can only serve limited purposes such as kids playing games on it, or using it as a "fancy" but outdated display.

On the other hand, I still run several mini 2011 & 2012 machines in a data center and they are great. I would spend $$ to buy several of those right away if Apple got a clue and made a decent machine again.

When my newer iMac gets long in the tooth, if there were a new and fast mac Mini, I'd simply plug that in to use the iMac as the display.

But, if Apple doesn't get a clue about this, then I'll be headed to PC's (running linux) for an increasing amount of my computing.

I'm not the only one I know who feels this way: nearly everyone I know who owns a Mac is disappointed with Apple's decisions about things like the Mini, soldered-in RAM, etc.

One disappointed person == noise.

Many disappointed people == reduced sales.

As a pro user, I've been responsible for 100's of Mac sales over the years. Around 70 of those have been direct sales related to my work, and the rest have been due to my recommendations to others looking at a new computer. Yet I have not purchased a single Mac Pro since 2009, nor any post-2012 Mac mini. They are not at all fit for my purposes. Instead, I recently bought two older (top of the line) Minis from eBay rather than buying a new one from Apple. I am about to buy another for the office.

It is only in the past year that I have begun NOT recommending macs anymore to people. That really bums me out, but until Apple starts treating us pro users as more than just buyers of throw-away toys, they no longer have my support in recommending them.

While Apple's mac sales went up this quarter, there is an inevitable time lag between when pro users start getting turned off and stop recommending the machines, to when Apple sees a substantial decline. I don't have data on exactly how big that time lag is, but I can guess from 1-3 years.

Therefore, it will be interesting to see where Apple's sales are in a few more years if they continue to anger pro users.

Hopefully they are starting to get the message.
 
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A Mac Mini with a modern SSD (even if it is SATA instead of PCIe for cost reasons), and the option for a modern quad core CPU and dGPU, would be killer.
 
A Mac Mini with a modern SSD (even if it is SATA instead of PCIe for cost reasons), and the option for a modern quad core CPU and dGPU, would be killer.

Yep, but only if it's not glued-in or soldered-in. 16GB RAM minimum and latest/fastest i7 Quad core or higher Intel chips.
I'd still like Ethernet. I don't need it to be thin, I need it to be powerful and quiet. Like my nMP that's in the shop for a busted i/o or logic board. -They don't know what the issue is quite yet...
 
Nilay's tweet flat out says Apple confirmed to him. So it's either true, or he is lying? Why would he lie?

No, it's not "either true, or he is lying." Someone very well could have told him they are out of the standalone display game, because at the time they were. Nilay, as journalists often do, likely jumped to the fatalistic conclusion that it meant that Apple was out for good, which is a ridiculous thing to think. Which is why it was so funny that so many people took that statement and ran with it.
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Hope the new mac mini is upgradable

We can hope all we want, but it won't be. The new Mac Pro probably won't be upgradable either.
 
its super funny how, in the link they are using sample comparisons of 4k to 8k photographs

thats pretty super i mean I barely bought a 4k flat screen tv

thanks dell....
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The Mac Pro is really oriented for the pros in view of its power and especially its price even in basic config ... If it should to add the screen (s) able to display a Hyper Ultra Mega HD, it will be super expensive......


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http://iphon8.fr/ apple iphone 6
it would cost more than it would to provide say a super doped up Mac Mini thats for sure
 
I always said how the cylindrical Mac Pro could very well have been - instead - an ultra high-end Mac Mini.

Agreed. The ideal machine for me would be something along the lines of cylinder Mac Pro with the internals of a mid tier iMac. I don't need EEC or Xenon processors, but I do need reasonable GPU power (which I could now/soon get via TB3) and strong CPU performance in a quiet/silent package. A cylinder Mac with an i7 quad-core and mid-range desktop GPU equivalent would be perfect.

There just isn't anything on the market like that unless you're willing to have a single-use display with it (iMac) or have a pretty big budget (to over-kill on the machine).
 
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