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He’s just wrong. Every Mac Pro is using at least one PCIe slot for the graphics card and another for Apple’s peripheral card.
Those things have been corrected in the SoC... why have expansion slots when the GPU and the other thing are built into Apple silicon?

Get unstuck from obsolete tech. Apple's smart enough to integrate it into the package to improve all manners of metrics.

Sooner we get onto the methods of doing things then efficiencies improves in your workflow.

Mac Studio's the future. I would not be surprised that Apple may just quietly discontinue the Mac Pro as any futher R&D spend would lose them money as not enough users would buy a Mac Pro.
 
With impending release of the Mac Pro, which starts off at 6,000 and easily can exceed 12,000 dollars they need to show that the Mac Pro just isn't a more powerful studio - The ultra version can be purchased for 4,000 btw

TLDNR: my prediction - M2 Max and M2 Pro "Mac Studios/Fat Mac Minis" get launched as "new Mac Pro" at $2000/$4000 + inflation. Maybe with a "proper" rackmount option.

The 2019 Mac Pro's distinguishing features were really:
  • Support for multiple high-end workstation-class AMD GPUs or other 8/16x PCIe cards
  • Lots of PCIe expansion space for specialist interface cards with 1x-4x PCIe
  • Capacity for >> 512GB RAM
  • ECC RAM support (even if it's only a tick-list feature with LPDDR).
  • Space for internal storage expansion via proprietary flash, PCIe-to-M.2 and even a couple of SATA rust spinners
If you didn't need any of those features then the $6000 model was, even at launch, thrashed by the iMac Pro and high-end iMac, and even the 28 core CPU option is now thrashed by the Studio Ultra on CPU benchmarks. If you did need those features then the upgrades and extra cards pushed the cost way beyond $6000. In short, I very much doubt that many people bought the $6000 Mac Pro over an iMac unless they were going to buy (or already had) thousands of $ worth of expansion.

So, if Apple can come up with an Apple Silicon Mac Pro with comparable features to the 2019 MP they ought to be able to sell a $6000 "base for expansion" alongside a non-expandable $4000 Studio Ultra, just as they sold the 2019 MP alongside iMacs and iMac Pros that outperformed the base MP. In that case, it seems dumb not to upgrade the Mac Studio.

If, however, they can't get close to those 2019 MP features with Apple Silicon - and the problems with doing that have been extensively discussed here - then its going to be hard justifying selling a base version at $6000. In that case, Apple may as well fess up that Apple Silicon is for "appliance computing", drop the "cheesegrater/big box'o'slots" concept and just re-badge the M2 Max/Ultra versions of the Mac Studio as "Mac Pro".

...after all, they tried to do that with the Trashcan and the only flaw of the trashcan that they've really fessed up too was the too-clever thermal design which blocked any CPU or GPU updates. The Mac Studio is already, pretty much, "the trashcan, done better".

If you can't add high-end AMD GPUs on 16x PCIe then that leaves other specialist PCIe cards and storage which will probably be OK in a thunderbolt 4-to-PCIe enclosure. You can already get 3rd party mounting kits that will put the Studio and a PCIe enclosure together in a 3U rack unit - or Apple could make a custom proper-rackmount version of the Studio. If they could make a 1U Mac Studio that would fit in the sort of lighter-weight, shallower racks that are used in, well, studios (rather than the big, heavy, expensive data centre type of rack) that might go down well.

There do seem to be rumours of a M2 Ultra in a 2019-style case circulating - but without Xeon W-level expandability that sounds like the biggest box of fresh air ever. If that was some clever system with multiple M2 Max/Ultra compute units slotting into a MPX-like bus then maybe - otherwise my guess is that people have seen lash-up systems for CPU evaluation using PCIe as a temporary solution for things like ethernet and WiFi.
 


A new version of the Mac Studio with the "M2 Ultra" chip is unlikely to arrive in the near future, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

mac-studio-pink.jpg

In the latest edition of his "Power On" newsletter, Gurman explained that since the upcoming Apple silicon Mac Pro is "very similar in functionality to the Mac Studio," Apple may wait until the release of M3- or M4-series chips to update the machine, or simply never refresh the device at all:To date, little has been rumored about the next-generation Mac Studio, so Gurman's latest remarks are the firmest indication yet that a new version of the machine is unlikely to arrive any time soon.

Last month, it emerged that Apple reportedly scaled back its plans for the first Apple silicon Mac Pro, scrapping the "M2 Extreme" chip and falling back on non-user-upgradable memory and the same design as the 2019 model. The device is now expected to offer the M2 Ultra only – a chip that would also have logically come to the next-generation Mac Studio.

The M2 Ultra chip is almost certain to double-up the capabilities of the recently introduced M2 Max chip, which is currently only available in the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro. With reduced modularity and similar performance on the upcoming Mac Pro, Apple's move to hold off on updating the Mac Studio's hardware may make sense until it can work out a better strategy for the machine's positioning going forward.

Article Link: Apple May Not Launch Updated Mac Studio With M2 Ultra Chip Due to Similarity With Upcoming Mac Pro
Why don't they just update the Studio with the M2 versions of the current giving the studios a boost but not to the level of the chip expected to be in the Mac Pro?
 
TLDNR: my prediction - M2 Max and M2 Pro "Mac Studios/Fat Mac Minis" get launched as "new Mac Pro" at $2000/$4000 + inflation. Maybe with a "proper" rackmount option.

The 2019 Mac Pro's distinguishing features were really:
  • Support for multiple high-end workstation-class AMD GPUs or other 8/16x PCIe cards
  • Lots of PCIe expansion space for specialist interface cards with 1x-4x PCIe
  • Capacity for >> 512GB RAM
  • ECC RAM support (even if it's only a tick-list feature with LPDDR).
  • Space for internal storage expansion via proprietary flash, PCIe-to-M.2 and even a couple of SATA rust spinners
If you didn't need any of those features then the $6000 model was, even at launch, thrashed by the iMac Pro and high-end iMac, and even the 28 core CPU option is now thrashed by the Studio Ultra on CPU benchmarks. If you did need those features then the upgrades and extra cards pushed the cost way beyond $6000. In short, I very much doubt that many people bought the $6000 Mac Pro over an iMac unless they were going to buy (or already had) thousands of $ worth of expansion.

So, if Apple can come up with an Apple Silicon Mac Pro with comparable features to the 2019 MP they ought to be able to sell a $6000 "base for expansion" alongside a non-expandable $4000 Studio Ultra, just as they sold the 2019 MP alongside iMacs and iMac Pros that outperformed the base MP. In that case, it seems dumb not to upgrade the Mac Studio.

If, however, they can't get close to those 2019 MP features with Apple Silicon - and the problems with doing that have been extensively discussed here - then its going to be hard justifying selling a base version at $6000. In that case, Apple may as well fess up that Apple Silicon is for "appliance computing", drop the "cheesegrater/big box'o'slots" concept and just re-badge the M2 Max/Ultra versions of the Mac Studio as "Mac Pro".

...after all, they tried to do that with the Trashcan and the only flaw of the trashcan that they've really fessed up too was the too-clever thermal design which blocked any CPU or GPU updates. The Mac Studio is already, pretty much, "the trashcan, done better".

If you can't add high-end AMD GPUs on 16x PCIe then that leaves other specialist PCIe cards and storage which will probably be OK in a thunderbolt 4-to-PCIe enclosure. You can already get 3rd party mounting kits that will put the Studio and a PCIe enclosure together in a 3U rack unit - or Apple could make a custom proper-rackmount version of the Studio. If they could make a 1U Mac Studio that would fit in the sort of lighter-weight, shallower racks that are used in, well, studios (rather than the big, heavy, expensive data centre type of rack) that might go down well.

There do seem to be rumours of a M2 Ultra in a 2019-style case circulating - but without Xeon W-level expandability that sounds like the biggest box of fresh air ever. If that was some clever system with multiple M2 Max/Ultra compute units slotting into a MPX-like bus then maybe - otherwise my guess is that people have seen lash-up systems for CPU evaluation using PCIe as a temporary solution for things like ethernet and WiFi.
I would be very surprised if Apple would bother with any GPU other than those built into Apple Silicon chip.

It's very obsolete way of thinking to expect a AMD GPU to find itself into a Mac Pro.

Indicator of that not happening is no more eGPU for Apple Silicon Macs.

Why? Because in terms of performance per watt, power consumption and raw performance a M2 Max or M2 Ultra would outperform on many metrics.
 
So another placeholder device like the iMac Pro, to buy time for people to spend more money on the Mac Pro. The lack of consistency in that segment of the market has got to be frustrating for Pro users (2013 Mac Pro to 2017 iMac Pro to 2019 Mac Pro to 2022 Mac Studio).
 
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TLDNR: my prediction - M2 Max and M2 Pro "Mac Studios/Fat Mac Minis" get launched as "new Mac Pro" at $2000/$4000 + inflation. Maybe with a "proper" rackmount option.

If Apple means to take this seriously, they would have to design a socketed M-series CPU, just a chip to rival the strongest Threadrippers, put it on a full-fat motherboard, full array of RAM and GPU slots for Radeon graphics, also no GPU on the CPU itself, no soldered unified RAM, it really is the only way to tackle the workstation market.

Then proceed to sell the Mac Mini with Mx/Mx Pro/Mx Max options, new Mac pro starter from $4999, and the Studio fades into oblivion.

Would they be able to repay the R&D cost?
Probably not.
But you can't market your company towards Pros by selling only $2000 iPads and $4000 laptops.
The cost of building an expandable Mac Pro should have been factored in when they made the choice to transition towards ASi from x86, in a lineup you have more profitable products and less profitable products that still can help you as halo products, it's just the way it is.
 
With CPU, GPU and Ram in a single SoC package and the rumoured issues around an M Ultra chip it does seem to bring into question what a Mac Pro could offer over the Studio. My best guess is add-in cards with additional M chips (Max, Ultra) which would add more cores and RAM. It may not scale linearly (as the SoCs wouldn't be physically linked as they are in the Extreme chip) but would still allow an upgrade path and more power than the Studio. Additional storage via M2 slots seems like a no-brainer too.
 
Comparing the Mac Studio and the Mac Pro is just, well daft… A Mac Pro offering on Apple Silicon will be quite a technical feat. The current Apple Silicon CPUs do not allow for any expansions like GPUs and PCIe slots, and they are very limited when it comes to RAM. Those three things are what differentiates the Mac Pro from the rest, and EXACTLY why professionals are ready to pay $10K… Apple will have to deliver a vastly different Mx ”Extreme” CPU for this to work, with an entirely different MoBo - and this adds easily $7K to the Mac Studio Ultra price.

The Mac Studio is for people who wants the power, the RAM, and the connectivity, without the expansion possibilities, and we can easily wait another Mx generation and then see significant change over the M1 Max/Ultra offerings. We will get an upgrade to the Mac Studio next year when the M3 Max and M3 Ultra are ready for mainstream. It’ll be at the same price point as today’s Mac Studios.

If you want cheaper, get the Mac Mini.

The Mac Pro will be published, and eventually released at the end of 2023, in a crazy Mx Extreme version with tons of RAM, lots of PCIe slots and GPU upgrades, and it will cost at least $10K.
 
I have no need for such powerful machines, and so as I'm on the outside looking in Apple has a product line problem. The Mini, Studio and the unrelease Mac Pro have to differentiate themselves but they don't. The M1 Mini was limited in options, with the M2 version its hard to justify buying the studio.

With impending release of the Mac Pro, which starts off at 6,000 and easily can exceed 12,000 dollars they need to show that the Mac Pro just isn't a more powerful studio - The ultra version can be purchased for 4,000 btw

You just pointed out the differentiation if you are right. If the Mac Pro starts at $6,000, then that differentiates it from the Studio.

The setup then goes:
Mini - $599 - $2,300
Studio - $1,999 - $6,299
Mac Pro - $6,000 - $10,000

I'm going to ignore the highest levels of upgrades that are sold in incredibly small volumes. The result is very limited price overlap and so the products are easily differentiated by price.

The vast majority of people will find a desktop that meets their needs and at a price they can stomach. The Studio is incredibly powerful and few people will need more computing power. The Mac Pro will be for people that want tons of upgradeable storage and cooling for incredibly sustained computing loads. It will sell in less numbers than the Studio and the Studio will get refreshed on a regular basis, though that might be every two years instead of every year. That is fine.
 
Apple is likely doing the market survey's and they just don't see the demand for this. Any low hanging fruit pro workflow has likely been picked by the M1 Ultra Studio and M1/M2 Max MacBook Pro's. On top of being squeezed by Windows/Linux PC Workstations which are heavily dominant in the CG industry, Apple is probably trying to figure where they fit in. Missteps were made back in 2013 with the cylindrical Mac Pro; it never should have happened.

The gap between the last conventional Mac Pro in 2010 and 2013 really created a lot of doubt. To make it worse, the lack of commitment then the mea culpa and the time it took to bring the 2019 Mac Pro to market; the industry likely said, once bitten, twice shy and moved on.

So, in conclusion, its a tainted history and its affecting Apple today.
 
You just pointed out the differentiation if you are right. If the Mac Pro starts at $6,000, then that differentiates it from the Studio.

The setup then goes:
Mini - $599 - $2,300
Studio - $1,999 - $6,299
Mac Pro - $6,000 - $10,000

I'm going to ignore the highest levels of upgrades that are sold in incredibly small volumes. The result is very limited price overlap and so the products are easily differentiated by price.

The vast majority of people will find a desktop that meets their needs and at a price they can stomach. The Studio is incredibly powerful and few people will need more computing power. The Mac Pro will be for people that want tons of upgradeable storage and cooling for incredibly sustained computing loads. It will sell in less numbers than the Studio and the Studio will get refreshed on a regular basis, though that might be every two years instead of every year. That is fine.
With the Mac Studio out means that the potential buyers of the Mac Pro would be reduced by more than 50%.

Apple would not have bothered with R&D efforts for the Mac Studio if they knew that PCIe expansion slots is a "killer app".

It reminds me of the PC ATX towers of the 1990s. Everyone had one but its expansion bays and slots were hardly modified much less upgraded by your typical home family computer used by non-hobbyists non-enthusiasts.

Their usage would have been better served with a 2022 Apple TV 4K-sized Mac mini (0.27L in volume)
 
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Would it be possible to make external PCIe chassises chained by Thunderbolt, with limited latency and bandwidth reduction, that essentially could make the current Mac Studio an expandable Mac Pro? Ie. Like eGPUs, but for everything else Pros might need?
 
Good point, but the trash can Mac Pro was also a feat of years of engineering and it ended up going nowhere. So while that may not have been their intent, you never know…
2013 Mac Pro is more of Mac Studio than a Mac Pro with PCIe expansion slots.

Sadly the design brought ridiculous comparison.

Mac Studio's just brilliant. Essentially a Mac mini that had 2-3 stories added to its foundation. Whoever approved its design I commend them greatly.

Just perfect. My dream Mac in the 2002... much more attractive than the Power Mac G4 Quicksilver.
 
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Would it be possible to make external PCIe chassises chained by Thunderbolt, with limited latency and bandwidth reduction, that essentially could make the current Mac Studio an expandable Mac Pro? Ie. Like eGPUs, but for everything else Pros might need?
That's a good idea. More workable as it become modular.

Mac Pro's an outdated concept. >50% of buyers do not use the PCIe expansion slot.
 
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