Apple May Sell Series 9 and Ultra 2 Watches Without Blood Oxygen App in U.S. Amid Patent Dispute

[jz0309]

I have the same question. No mention if existing watches will be software modified to remove the app. If they are I see another class action lawsuit coming.

no, will not be removed on existing (sold) watches. The path Masimo chose (ITC) only affects watches to be sold. had Masimo gone another way, different story ...
And yes, IF Apple chose to remove the functionality (without legally required to do so) - class action suit for sure

 

[Gloor]

I love how people with limited to no knowledge play a card like yours. There is tons of examples to show why its wrong but about your example - read the post from the physician below your original one (the one I'm quoting) and then tell us again how is this saving lives.

Some features are just gimmicks and this is one of them. Its not accurate, it doesn't really help general public.

I love how patent trolls and lawyers prioritize money over possibly saving human lives. Apple should just pay the ransom and settle.

 

[jz0309]

They were right. There is no "fix". What Apple is doing now is removing the feature. I would not call this a "fix".

I wonder how they will do software updates in the future or if the next ISO revision removes it from all watches, even those bought months or years ago.

there is no legal requirement (as of yet) for Apple to remove the feature from already sold and used watches. if they chose to do so on their own, they'll get sued incl class action ...

 

[jz0309]

I love how people with limited to no knowledge play a card like yours. There is tons of examples to show why its wrong but about your example - read the post from the physician below your original one (the one I'm quoting) and then tell us again how is this saving lives.

Some features are just gimmicks and this is one of them. Its not accurate, it doesn't really help general public.

re-read the post you are referring to, he says "most" people, not "all".
Also read some of the posts in the AW forum where people describe how SpO2 readings have helped them.

Generically calling this feature "gimmick" and "useless" is plain wrong

 

[Applɘ Aꙅylum]

Good thing I brought AW9 45mm before the first "ban" last month.

 

[Pezimak]

And they’ll continue to sell the watch at the same price as the one that has the functionality enabled because the hardware is the same?

Who knows, but this is Apple so most likely yes.

They are certainly at least partially guilty as they are not walking out of this one it seems if this is their course of action. It's a mess for them anyway which they seem to have created.

 

[onenorth]

Apple's removal of the app means the LEDs on Watch can no longer emit light. The photodiodes can no longer receive light, per the patent. The Masimo patent describes using a sequence of light pulses based on different levels of power.

Without software, the hardware is useless because the patent describes a device for non-invasive blood measurement. If Apple wants to manufacture Watches with LEDs and photodiodes as a tribute to Masimo, that's fine.

Masimo is correct and their patent doesn't cover software. But practically without the software, the hardware is useless.

You may be right, it really depends on what the (allegedly) infringed claims say, they might not be this specific as to the sequencing of light. Also, just emitting light is not patentable, there has to be some novel algorithm and I'm not sure the claims define what that algorithm is. Even Masimo admits that the patents are not for the software. So I still think the functionality can be moved to the iPhone if the watch is just collecting data.

 

[Abazigal]

This is why I am personally not very concerned about the entire development.

1) Supply interruptions likely won't lead to customers shopping elsewhere for their smartwatch needs. Short term fluctuations in demand may lead to spicy headlines, but in the greater scheme of things, I don't see Apple Watch demand being significantly impacted.

3) The idea that Apple should pay companies (or approve apps like Hey) to avoid some bad legal headlines is not well thought-out. That doesn’t mean that Apple would be opposed to mediation involving Masimo if its legal and product options run low. However, at this point, all I am seeing are suggestions that Apple should pay for Masimo IP just to quiet Joe Kiani.

3) Disabling the oxygen reading feature is likely a last ditch effort to buy time until the patents expire in another couple of years, upon which Apple can then bring the feature back.

4) Most importantly, Apple management does legitimately seem to believe that they are not in the wrong here. Poaching competitors is not illegal and there is enough gray area regarding the patents at the heart of this saga to draw into question Masimo’s narrative and alleged timeline.

Ultimately, it is important to not lose sight of the big picture, which is that the Apple Watch's long term trajectory has, and will not, change.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Are we going to see a software fix that disables the feature for everyone regardless of when purchased?

I don't think Apple can do that.

 

[JPack]

They were right. There is no "fix". What Apple is doing now is removing the feature. I would not call this a "fix".

I wonder how they will do software updates in the future or if the next ISO revision removes it from all watches, even those bought months or years ago.

Nobody sensible is calling this a fix. If anybody went to Tim Cook and told him it's a fix, they'd be fired on the spot. Without SpO2, it puts the Watch S9 and SE at near feature parity.

Ultimately, I think Apple will relent. The Masimo patent is broad. Other watch makers sued by Masimo relented. Apple has had three years to design something different. If it were easy, they'd have done it by now.

 

[markfc]

As I predicted. Next step will be software modification to avoid patent issues but then less accurate pulse oximeter.

Not sure it could be less accurate as it is. 😂

 

[Gloor]

Its not an accurate measurement. So yeah, it is a gimmick and it is useless.

Its the same like smart scales. They never give you accurate reading hence why those features are gimmicky too.

re-read the post you are referring to, he says "most" people, not "all".
Also read some of the posts in the AW forum where people describe how SpO2 readings have helped them.

Generically calling this feature "gimmick" and "useless" is plain wrong

 

[jz0309]

Its not an accurate measurement. So yeah, it is a gimmick and it is useless.

Its the same like smart scales. They never give you accurate reading hence why those features are gimmicky too.

ok, to your opinion you are entitled ...

 

[mannyvel]

So will it cost less as well?

 

[chanerz]

The watch should cost less.

 

[ID_Field_Blank]

I’m wondering what this does to the AppleWatch X for this year. Hopefully they’ll fix it by then so the sensor suite can be utilised fully with all the bells and whistles they’ve saved for this release.

Or they buy Masimo…

 

[vegetassj4]

Apple Insider CrabApplePrime has confirmed a Leaked rendering of Apple Watch Ultra 3

 

[CarAnalogy]

Would be nice if Apple offered a discount since these watches will likely be worth less come trade-in versus those with the technology

Like Apple’s trade-in values have any basis in reality. They don’t take upgrades into account. Trade in value is whatever Apple deigns to offer you, assuming their trade-in partners don’t screw it up.

 

[jgdeschamps]

Well, people interested in Apple Watch better get the current SE for $249 before it gets relabeled as Series 10 Legal Exemption Edition and costs $399.

 

[stockseer]

As a physician I am happy they are turning it off, since it basically is a mysterious number to non-physicians, Understanding what that number means and what to do about it except in VERY SPECIFIC situations (like you are in an airplane that depressurizes like the AL flight that popped the door plug) is meaningless to most patients. There are also a couple of life threatening situations where it fools you that all is fine when your life is in imminent danger, the most classical one you learn in medical school is CO poisoning since CO shows as "oxygen" to the sensor and patients will read 100% when in fact they need oxygen to try and force the CO off the hemoglobin (we measure CO2/CO via a arterial blood gas). Additionally the other day my staff told me an asthmatic was hypoxemic with a low oxygen saturation but was now showing 97% after they'd given him a nebulizer before i could get into the room (but they didn't understand an asthmatic absolutely should not be hypoxemic, their problem is exhaling not inhaling and nothing should interfere with absorbing oxygen in asthma, and that represented a huge emergency and that the fact that they magically made the number better meant nothing). I get that from nursing all the time (patient is is respiratory distress but their sats are "ok," so it's not that serious, where that's rarely the issue, you don't breathe from low oxygen but from high CO2 (makes your blood acidic which drives the sensor in your brain) so not helpful in any situations (there are of course many situations where it matters such as heart failure, pulmonary embolism, etc but there is a reason we train for a long time to understand those numbers properly)

Dr. Feldman .. I respectfully partially dispute the lay-person's importance as being non. I suffered through severe Covid, and as I was getting ill at home (2 years ago); My blood/O2 levels dropped from normal 98 or so to 89. Called my doctor; told me go to the ER, and I did in the nick of time (ended up on a ventilator and ultimate tracheotomy even). On the Advent ER Admission form it notes: 'Initial Diagnosis: patient's Apple Watch" I probably should have sent a note to Tim Cook as that would be a great promotion. I'm a stock market (pioneer of financial TV before CNBC) analyst and follow AAPL for many years (semi-retired daily comments on 'X' follow @stockseer ) anyway I find it useful and checked it as I type this.. 99. Made my day. Cheers!

 

[Sarpent]

As a physician I am happy they are turning it off, since it basically is a mysterious number to non-physicians, Understanding what that number means and what to do about it except in VERY SPECIFIC situations (like you are in an airplane that depressurizes like the AL flight that popped the door plug) is meaningless to most patients. There are also a couple of life threatening situations where it fools you that all is fine when your life is in imminent danger, the most classical one you learn in medical school is CO poisoning since CO shows as "oxygen" to the sensor and patients will read 100% when in fact they need oxygen to try and force the CO off the hemoglobin (we measure CO2/CO via a arterial blood gas). Additionally the other day my staff told me an asthmatic was hypoxemic with a low oxygen saturation but was now showing 97% after they'd given him a nebulizer before i could get into the room (but they didn't understand an asthmatic absolutely should not be hypoxemic, their problem is exhaling not inhaling and nothing should interfere with absorbing oxygen in asthma, and that represented a huge emergency and that the fact that they magically made the number better meant nothing). I get that from nursing all the time (patient is is respiratory distress but their sats are "ok," so it's not that serious, where that's rarely the issue, you don't breathe from low oxygen but from high CO2 (makes your blood acidic which drives the sensor in your brain) so not helpful in any situations (there are of course many situations where it matters such as heart failure, pulmonary embolism, etc but there is a reason we train for a long time to understand those numbers properly)

That would imply that you, for the very same reason, don't like the more popular type of blood oxygen sensors that clip on your finger along with whatever sensor it is that Masimo makes.

Sure, some folks aren't educated enough to understand some of this tech, but is this really that different from the EKG sensor? Or the heart rate sensor. There are some fairly smart and educated/educatable people in the world who are capable of learning the thing that you were able to clearly explain in your reply. These people want to improve their health and are willing to take the steps necessary to learn how. They deserve access to the tools for this.

 

[sashavegas]

I guess i am turning automatic update OFF. Since software update will make it none usable of completly remove it. So 10.2 will be last working for now.

 

[iGeneo]

Apple readies Apple Watch Series 9 ban workaround by disabling blood oxygen functionality [U] - 9to5Mac

The U.S. Customs agency has handed down its decision on whether Apple’s proposed redesign of the Apple Watch Series 9...

9to5mac.com

Essentially, and unsurprisingly, this means that U.S. Customs has found the Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 do not infringe on Masimo patents so long as they don’t “contain pulse oximetry features.” This won’t impact existing owners of an Apple Watch with pulse oximetry features.

We’re waiting on more details from Apple on this situation. In the interim, what this means is that Apple can keep selling the Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra 2, but those devices will no longer “contain pulse oximetry features.” This applies only in the United States.

 

[Someyoungguy]

That would imply that you, for the very same reason, don't like the more popular type of blood oxygen sensors that clip on your finger along with whatever sensor it is that Masimo makes.

Sure, some folks aren't educated enough to understand some of this tech, but is this really that different from the EKG sensor? Or the heart rate sensor. There are some fairly smart and educated/educatable people in the world who are capable of learning the thing that you were able to clearly explain in your reply. These people want to improve their health and are willing to take the steps necessary to learn how. They deserve access to the tools for this.

The “We are all experts” crowd is in the house.

 

[MrMojo1]

If Apple can get caught for one feature, one may wonder if it may be caught for other features. Who knows.
If Apple removes that feature via a software update, expect a massive class action lawsuit. iWatch owners will want compensation for any loss of function they paid for.
Apple should've just paid the royalty fees.
Let's see how the rest of the trial goes.