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Apple May Sell Series 9 and Ultra 2 Watches Without Blood Oxygen App in U.S. Amid Patent Dispute
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If it is in the public interest, the courts have said "yes" to this question before in other contexts. Like it or not. And yes, that is one of Apple's arguments here (they also have technical arguments that the Watch doesn't infringe and that the patents are invalid).
See, that is the thing about patents. You don’t have to steal to violate a patent. Independent work is still covered by a patent.
Usually when there are patent conflicts the companies negotiate and reach a settlement. For some reason that hasn’t happened here.
I should have added in my reply to you, at the end of the day even if they disable it, the sensor is still there, so it is still costing Apple money to manufacture. So I guess it would make sense if they charged the same for it still.
This is so true.
For perspective, consider that the ITC usually bans imports of straight up knock-offs. In this case, Masimo - at best - can only claim intellectual property rights to a single feature of the Apple Watch, certainly not the entire device, which muddies the water.
So this isn't an easy question to answer - who should "win" so to speak - but remember this is just business, not personal (although the Masimo CEO seems to carry a grudge). Patent disputes happen all the time. For example, Sonos and Google don't get along so well, and therefore their devices don't get along either. I guess it is what it is.
Pretty much.
Apple's actions are not that illogical when you think about it.
First, disable the feature to get around the sales ban. This buys Apple time to continue working on a technical workaround, with the assurance that each day spent working on this solution isn't a day of lost Apple Watch sales.
Second, this fix is unlikely to affect existing watch owners (just like how the ban does not stop the sale of existing watches by third party retailers). As such, there is zero risk of Apple being sued for false advertising.
Third, blood oxygen monitoring was never a key part of the Apple Watch's marketing, so I don't see watch sales being materially impacted by this.
Finally, Apple can then reintroduce said feature if they do find a workaround, or when Masimo's patents expire in March 2028. 4 years will be over before we know it.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. Was anyone here expecting a massive exodus to other smartwatch competitors because of this?
Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the blood oxygen sensor in my Titanium S7 vs my U2?
Seems the exact same to me. Have the sensors changed at all since they were first introduced in the S6??
Is the media only focused on the S9 and U2 because they are the current watches sold by Apple, but technically there are 4 generation of watches that are affected by the same patent issues?
Seems the exact same to me. Have the sensors changed at all since they were first introduced in the S6??
Is the media only focused on the S9 and U2 because they are the current watches sold by Apple, but technically there are 4 generation of watches that are affected by the same patent issues?
I am not sure how a feature is classified as a 'key part of marketing', but the SpO2 measurement is listed as a feature of Apple watches on the Apple web site (at least in the UK) as one of five 'Powerful health features'. The population is ageing and us older folk like having systems that could detect health problems before they get out of hand. Would a non-functioning SpO2 sensor be a deal-breaker for me? Yes. Smartwatches from Garmin, Corros, etc. have SpO2 monitoring.
Been saving up and was finally ready to purchase my Ultra 2 when this latest news came out.
Fortunately, I was able to pick up my new, unmodified, Ultra 2 today. I’m a happy camper!
Just felt like sharing my small victory publicly. 😂
Fortunately, I was able to pick up my new, unmodified, Ultra 2 today. I’m a happy camper!
Just felt like sharing my small victory publicly. 😂
Does the original Ultra use the same sensor and technology? Or am I using a different technology on my Ultra?
As far as we know, all Apple Watches use the same blood oxygen sensor. So far, the court case is focusing only on the current models.
Is the software "fix" in firmware or the OS? Far as I know, there are dozens of pulse oximeters that use a firmware, part of which is licensed from Maismo. Looks like Cuppertino is all about their profit margins and won't bend at all. And here I was contemplating buying one of their watches... but NOOOOOOOO.
I'll be pissed if they make a software update that disables the capability on my ULTRA 2 after I already bought it. There is a Steve Jobs precedent for them doing this many years ago. There was a "simple, unimportant bug fix" Steve said. It removed the capability of downloading MP3 files from Napster.
Apparently, it might be in the OS.
Apple had an update ready to switch off Apple Watch oximeter
After having sales of the Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2 banned in the US due to a patent...
9to5mac.com
So it appears that they have a statement in the code that checks for the model number ending with LW/A.
What we don't know is that if this is something based on model number, if the next OS update (which may come out with iOS 17.3) may include that check. If it does, then it could be that WatchOS 10.3 could disable the Blood Oxygen feature on all S9s and U2s. More than that, it could also potentially be modified to say LL/A instead of LW/A, and effectively disable the blood oxygen feature in, say, the S7 models. So Tuesday (if the rumors of the next OS updates are true) will be interesting.
BL.
Previous models which have the technology will still retain the blood monitoring functionality. Only new Apple Watch devices in sold the US are prohibited from using the tech. Someone wrote though, that if your earlier devices are not covered by applecare or warranty, they may not be able to repair them, but that doesn’t make sense to me. e a
Like, I have an Apple Watch 7 with the blood sensor, I don’t expect that to change.
Ditto for the new Ultra 2 I bought over the holidays. If you did want to get one, other stores can still sell their remaining stock WITH the sensor enabled. But that clock is running down…
But if what is being reported is correct, the switch for this is in the OS, which makes it probable that the new S9s being sold could have it switched on at any time; or conversely, the next OS update could switch the others off, just by enabling an IF or CASE statement around the model numbers. That's why the next OS release will tell a lot about what will happen with not only the previous models, but the S9 and U2 models bought before the bans went into effect.
BL.
You are right, that could happen, and everyone with a series 9 - 7 watch could lose this functionality. I don’t think that is what Apple will do, as it would certainly result in mass consumer outcry and likely class action lawsuits. LOL. I’m sure they’re carefully considering next steps, especially as someone(plural someones) really f**cked up on this.
I’m not personally particularly concerned, as I rarely use the blood monitoring function. I did use it during COVID-Times (and when I had COVID) to see if my BO2 differed from my usual readings. There was a change of several percent while I had COVID, for around 2 weeks (it dropped to 94-95%). But otherwise, it is generally at 98-99%. I mean, I like having it, but it doesn’t really improve my daily life in any way.
No, they have always had the option to license the patented technology that Apple allegedly infringed. If they made a deal on the fee, they could resume selling watches with the SPO2 tech again in a blink.
That’s not true. A holder of a patent is under no obligation whatsoever to license their technology.
Maybe once they settle their differences they'll run an update to reenable the O2 functionality. For now, there still selling the Ultra and 9 at full price, which IMHO is so inflated. If you have a watch that has to go in for repairs you are in for a ride
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As my plan had been to maybe get a series X by the end of this year I am concerned what they may do for that watch... will they totally remove the sensor? My understanding (which may be incorrect) is the dispute involves the micro-code in the sensor itself. Yes, they can disable this in OS software. Obviously, signing a licensing deal is all to the benefit of customers, but Cupertino is about about profits, not so much customers, and everything I have read so far indicates they are refusing to make a deal. I THINK there are very few companies making the sensor, so maybe they can find a sensor that does not violate those pesky patents. OR they cold launch a marketing campaign to convince customers they don't need spo2 readings (the twist of this is will they spend more on the marketing than what it might cost to license)... so this is going to be very interesting to see what they do for the X.